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  1. A houserule my group is playing with is this: When a Lt. flees, the heroes gain 4 conquest and 250 coins in addition to rolling for loot after winning an outdoor encounter. The heroes have the right to refuse this extra money and conquest (not the rolling part, the rest). They are allowed to refuse the conquest because they could be screwed over on training or doing an extra dungeon before the campaign changes to the next level (copper to silver, silver to gold, gold to final battle). We used this in our last RtL campaign and it seemed a decent enough deterent to help prevent Lts. fleeing all the time. The overlord is giving the heroes resources if he just flees all the time. I'll admit that the Lts still fled most of the time, but the overlord took more of a chance and left them on the board for more than just their first turn. I still contend that the close Dallak plot card should not count toward the raze 5 cities victory condition for the overlord. People are already saying it is too easy for the overlord to win that way and having a card that moves that along for just some xp is kinda overpowered. Especially considering that the rest of the plot is geared toward screwing the heroes over as much as possible thereby making it easier to raze 5 cities anyway. I can't say anything about exploding skeletons, but the Leeching + Ironskin Razorwings aren't that brutally overpowered. They are pretty rare monsters usually and there is only 1 spawn card in the entire deck, 2 if you add the treachery one. Yeah, they count for kills when they appear, but is that any different than usual for spawning? The only time my group has had a real problem with it is when they encountered the Razorwing outdoor encounter. TPKs are never fun, but that's what happened. Without leech, they may have actually fled the encounter instead, though at least 2 of them would have died anyway. The encounter is one of many cards though (and the only one with Razorwings I think), so even that is rare. Not sure if any of this helps, but I will still hold out hope that there is at least one legitimate strategy in SOB for the heroes. Didn't RtL have a lot of problems like this before people figured out what to do too?
  2. Corbon said: Since the card says to put a razed token on the city, IMO that means the city counts as razed for every purpose thereafter. Actually, I don't remember the card saying to put a raze token on the city. I believe it says that heroes may not enter Dallak and that the Overlord gains conquest each week as if the city were razed. I don't remember interpreting it as being actually razed for # of cities destroyed for end of game. It may also state that the city is not actually razed on the card. One of many times I wish I had the actual card handy to look at.
  3. The spawn marker is not flipped if the spawn card is cancelled. FAQ pg. 16 RtL section (with Tomb of Ice) Q: If a spawn card is canceled by the Feat card, "Preventing Evil," is the Spawn Marker still flipped to its blank side? A: No. For Corbon: Right under that question/answer is a reference to stealth (bottom right, in red). That one should be put in the Tomb of Ice only section (which is after the RtL section) since it applies to all versions of Descent, not just RtL with Tomb of Ice.
  4. Corbon said: There will be two separate threads for large monsters and movement once the "new-FAQ" work starts coming out. One deals with actual movement details (which spaces can the large monster move to as in rotating and moving 'forward', diagonally or 'sideways') and it's starting point will effectively be the final post in the thread you linked to recently in the stickied FAQ thread. That might be the final result post too, since it was the result of 4pages or so of discussion and refinement last time. But it will be still up for change... The second deals with how large monsters interact with terrain and will be aiming to address all the points you mention above. I suggest you be a little more patient (sorry) and post your ideas or commentary in those threads when they appear. They will be most welcome. Otherwise you may just be duplicating work already done. What is already done is (mostly) a basic background description of the issue, a carefully crafted question or questions to ask FFG and a set of crafted answers that hopefully FFG can pick one of that they like best (or adapt it) and resolve the issues properly. The idea is that we will post this work in a thread as a starting point and see what other ideads or refinements people have. The 'starting point' work is likely to have the original crafter's bias reflected slightly, so the whole thing is subject to revision based on general input. But if we can give FFG a summary of the issues, a well prepared question and a selection of answers to choose from we have a much better chance of getting coherent answers that resolve issues and don't cause more issues down the track. But if you want to double up on this, feel free to go ahead... EDIT: In summary, the existing official material is not satisfactory. The large monster movement/terrain rules simply have gaping holes in them. It never hurts to start early. I was mostly looking at the Large Monster and terrain issue instead of the Oddly Sized Large Monster movement rules. When you say we, are you in discussion with someone at FFG about this to get their perspective on it? The current ruling has a lot of loopholes and confusion associated with it right now and it seems that it may have more that we aren't seeing because we're distracted by the obvious things. A re-write done by the community may (or may not) have better language and be less confusing while maintaining the integrity of the rules. This is what I see as the main issue right now. Do we try to work with what is given right now and just get a bunch of clarifications or do we start over and come up with something new? Either way, there is obviously a lot of work to be done on the issue. The overall issue is how often and when should large monsters be affected by obstacles and props? On a related note. Until RtL came out, was there any confusion about when and how often large monsters were affected by obstacles and props? RtL and SOB are the only times they didn't specify for each prop (and by extension obstacles) how it interacts with large creatures.
  5. The heroes in my (I'm the overlord) SOB campaign are doing pretty well. It's the Count doing the Dark Queen plot (the one with A New Law). Avatar and Plot chosen randomly really since I hadn't truly taken the time to look at the differences between avatars and plots at the time, though I don't think another combination would have changed things much. Hero group is currently: Landrec the Wise with Marksman (starting skill), +1 Magic die, +4 Wounds, Cone of Fire, Elven Robe, Ring of Quickness, Ghost Armor, some other stuff in backpack (shop items) Andira Runehand with Inner Fire (starting skill), Prodigy, +4 Wounds, Immolate (equipped), Heavy Leather, Mana Weave, Staff of the Grave in backpack (recently acquired in chest at end of level, will probably equip at start of next level) Vyrah the Falconer with Master Archer (starting skill), +2 Ranged dice, +1 Fatigue, Crossbow, Leather Armor, Skull Shield, Ring of Protection, something in backpack (Iron or Crystal Shield I think) Nara the Fang with Ox Tattoo (starting skill), +1 Melee die, 1 silver Melee, +4 Wounds, Dragontooth Hammer, Sword, Crystal Shield, Iron Shield, Chainmail I don't know what other skills the heroes had to choose from at the start, but I do know they failed to get any of the new ones in SOB. If they would have gotten any, they would have picked them automatically. That's just how my group is. Try the new stuff even if it would obviously be a detriment. I also know that Nara was the only Melee hero they could choose. I guess she was fated to be part of the group. Ship Upgrades: Elven Sails, Hawkeye cannon, Runeblast cannon, Dragonbreath cannon, Avatar Upgrades: Upgraded Razorwings (Leech and Ironskin, starting xp), Siren, Beasts upgraded, A New Law (purchased after Beast upgrade since heroes already bought a bunch of cannons before I could play it), Plot card that makes visiting any city cost 100 coins (the visit circumstance only, not restock or train actions), Plot card version of Lawlessness (costs 5 xp instead of 10, Lawlessness is also an option to buy), 1 Event Treachery (for Crushing Blow honestly, I've only ever felt I had to use it once before, I feel I need to now as well) Heroes ended up killing the Siren because I made a tactical blunder. I forgot about the current (which doesn't affect the Siren since she has Swim). Heroes also rolled exactly what they needed to in order to kill her (they needed 6 perfect rolls to do it). Chances were astronomical. If it hadn't worked, she would have gotten onto the other side of the ship where the heroes couldn't really get at her anymore. This happened about half-way through copper. No cities razed, but I got to roll 4 times on one city and failed each time... Current CT count is about 90-80, heroes leading. The only thing that hasn't gone the heroes' way was when they encountered a bunch of Silver Razorwings at sea. It was a TPK. The extra wounds they purchased have made a huge difference too. I've failed to kill heroes a couple times because of it and they were able to get back to town to heal. They got 4 treasure map pieces and pulled one treasure, choose any 2 items from the current level item deck. Would have been better at silver or gold, but they took Mana Weave and Ring of Quickness, they had all the other stuff already. Other stuff of note: I think I have a 1 in 3 chance of missing, not a 1 in 6. One of the heroes started keeping track the last time we got together and I missed about 50% of the time that night. It really sucks when a silver Dragon misses 4 times (Rage with 2 Aims). A New Law only seems to affect purchase price of weapons and cannons, the heroes roll enough surges on chests the alchemists closing doesn't matter. All but one or two barrels the heroes open has given them 200 coins (they did an island level that had 5 barrels on it and several dungeon levels with barrels). Things will probably change once things hit silver. Maybe I'll figure out a way to use the Kraken effectively, probably not though. Maybe luck will actually swing the other way too, but for some reason I think that is unlikely. I predict only one more full dungeon till silver anyway. Though that'll be a while since we're playing other things now.
  6. The purpose of this thread is to determine if the current ruling in the FAQ is a step in the right direction, what possible ways there are to exploit the current rule, and to provide alternate rulings if we decide that there needs to be a complete overhaul of the FAQ ruling (possibly other things related to these too). Mostly, this thread is to start discussion so that the community here can try to give FFG a helping hand in finally getting it right (not saying we will, but we may as well try). I'll start with some links to relevant discussions on the topic, all of them posted after the latest FAQ. New FAQ Posted, first post March 12. Antistone provides potential and actual problems with the ruling (Reply #49). No other real discussion was given about this issue. There was a revised FAQ released 2 days after the relevant post, but the ruling remained unchanged if I remember correctly. Trees and Large Monsters, first post June 18. The discussion mostly revolves around when the Overlord gets to decide if a large monster is affected by terrain. Can a large monster ignore the MP cost to enter a single tree space but then gain the benefits of Shadowcloak if under attack later? Large Monster Movement, first post July 18. The discussion here is about large monsters and rubble. Can a large monster choose to ignore rubble spaces while moving? The descriptor and questions are simplified, but I think people will understand if they read the threads. Personally, I think the current ruling is confusing for the most part because a lot of things are still undefined as to how they interact with it. To sum them up, they are what Antistone said after having read them once (in the New FAQ Posted thread). Another thing to add, are we supposed to ignore the specific wording on Pits, Lava, Mud, and Ice that state they only interact with large monsters if they are fully on those types of obstacles? It does allow large monsters to move around better, but is that enough to let the ruling stand and only get these things clarified for the new FAQ coming up? What other possible things could there be that we would need clarified if the ruling stands? What exploits are possible? Other issues? It is better than the last ruling about “front halves” and “back halves”. I have an idea for a possible total overhaul of the ruling, but I don't want to post anything about it unless we decide that the ruling needs a total overhaul. If people want, I can post it anyway for reference.
  7. A link to a forum discussion shorty after the latest FAQ came out. There was some discussion about possible FAQ questions to send starting near the end of page 7. Link goes to page 10. Figured it was relevant to look at for anyone working on a new FAQ. www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp
  8. sysrq828 said: From road to legend quest 34 there is 2x two way gateways. Yes there is just straight way to other side. But blocking these gateways it just make this map last so much longer and when i played this i came to think why there are these gateways? And it just stupid that you can abuse these gateways like that This requires the heroes to use different tactics to finish the level. It's perfectly doable and a leader that can get away from the heroes is the point of the level. Not every level should be in favor of the heroes anyway. As Corbon stated, these things should be discussed in a different thread. If a consensus is reached that the level is not balanced in that other thread, then something should be posted here. Found an inconsistency in the FAQ pg. 15 (yeah, sysrq828 used it, but this is a different issue entirely): Q: Which map items count as obstacles for the Crushing Block trap card? A: Crushing Block may never be played in a space adjacent to a pit or any token (or built-in map element) that blocks movement. The reason for this is to prevent the Overlord from sealing a hallway completely and preventing the heroes from ever progressing. This is a list of all relevant obstacles, current through the Road to Legend: Boulder, Crushing Wall, Rubble, Water. (Villagers are figures, not map elements.) The list of relevant obstacles does not include pits when it is mentioned earlier in the answer. It would be a relevant obstacle up to that point. They should also add any relevant obstacles in SOB as well, if there are any.
  9. Antistone said: If you're talking about the official build-your-own-hero rules, I don't recommend using them. They're restrictive, cumbersome, and not particularly balanced. I recommend my hero generator for "vanilla" Descent, but it might have some serious imbalances if you're playing an advanced campaign (RtL/SoB). +1 Antistone did an excellent job balancing everything. I haven't noticed anything that would be totally imbalanced for the advanced campaign. At least not any more than some of the published hero abilites.
  10. SOB has it's own problems. It's also new and the heroes need to think differently to have a shot at winning. Since you have RtL, maybe just a few house rules are needed. 1) You don't like the Tamalir raze strategy so you could always restrict it somehow. An option presented here on the forums quite often before is that the overlord needs to raze 4 other cities before he can try to raze Tamalir. This a variant of the SOB rules that state the overlord wins if 5 cities are razed. Another option my group almost implemented was that any lieutenant that attacks or is attacked on Tamalir only gets half the overlord's treachery to spend (round down). 2) Use the SOB rules for the final avatar fight which are based on the conquest over the entire campaign instead of just the Final Keep. Also, the heroes only get +1 wound per 4 conquest and the overlord get +2 per conquest. This was supposed to address the avatar fight problem, but it's still questionable how well that works since no one has posted about those yet. 3) Don't know if it was a problem or concern, but many people have sworn by the Divine Favor rules. Implementing those into RtL seems to keep things a bit more even conquest wise at least. As an overlord in a SOB campaign, I'll state that I've noticed the dungeon levels added in SOB are smaller on average than their RtL counterparts. The heroes go through them as quickly as Gold level heroes did in RtL, and we're still in copper. The only exception is the Island levels, which are just huge, but nearly impossible to spawn in places that would be useful. Though I'll admit we've only gone through 8 of the dungeon levels and 1 island, so that's a rather small sample. My heroes also realized that the blitz strategy won't work very well in this campaign since lieutenants can get from city to city rather quickly. Time is much more constrained in SOB than RtL.
  11. Something I'll add that's in the base rules that doesn't seem to be mentioned. JitD pg. 14: Aim: Before the hero rolls dice for an attack, he may use the aim order to declare that he is making an aimed attack. This allows him to re-roll any number of dice after rolling for the attack (including any dice showing the “miss” result). The hero must keep the second result. Dodge: A hero that has placed a dodge order may, when attacked, force his attacker (usually the overlord player) to re-roll any number of dice rolled for the attack. The hero player may only do this once for each attack, and must accept the second result. If you are adding dice after re-rolls, then you are not keeping / accepting the second result anymore.
  12. Sorrry for the delay, I had to walk away to get a fresh perspective. I'll admit straight out that I was being stubborn. That happens to me, a lot actually. There's still a few things I'd like to say before stopping though. mahkra said: Counting range for an attack is clearly defined in the base rules. But 'counting range' for movement definitely doesn't work the same way. And not everything in the game requires you to 'count range'. (Line of Sight [in general] and Breath / Bolt are obvious examples.) If we're discussing an ability that we have been told does not 'count range', then how is the picture on page 11 relevant at all? The range for movement is dependent on the MP spent, but that doesn't mean that the amount of MP available is the range. The range would be the number of spaces moved since even at full MP, a figure doesn't need to spend them all. Besides, the maximum range could only ever be 1 space for movement anyway because you need to stop at each space, spend the MPs necessary to enter, take any other effects for entering the space (like lava), and allow the overlord to play cards. You don't spend all your MPs and then just place your figure where you want it to end up. While you don't need to calculate the range on all things, that doesn't mean they don't have one. LOS has an infinite range unless restricted (by say Gust of Wind, which would make it 5). The definition I use has a wide range of possibilities that can be applied in a lot of circumstances and I can't see it interfering with other rules. A better word would probably be distance, but that isn't what is used in the rules. I think you are confusing yourself by trying to use a bunch of different definitions for the word when only one applies in the context of the discussion. mahkra said: If you use the template concept and restrict the range as you describe, then the template concept is utterly pointless. The spaces reachable counting range "as the razorwing flies" are a subset of the spaces beneath the template. I don't see a problem with this. mahkra said: Breath doesn't "have no range". The "range" of breath is restricted by the size of the breath template. Breath ignores rolled range because the "range" of a breath attack is already determined. (Breath certainly has a "range" in some sense, but you definitely don't have to "count range" as per page 11.) You're using yet another definition for range here. All in all, my main complaint is that this seems to actually break the game really. My group used the rule as it stands when we started playing and it seemed fine since there were only a couple of abilities it mattered for. It made Word of Vaal overpowered, but the heroes had it such a short time it didn't usually matter. Now there is Spiritwalker, Kirga, Auras that extend to 2 spaces (although that's only in the Demon Prince fight AFAIK), and other things. This ruling makes all of these vastly more powerful than using the other interpretation. Now, when the heroes get one of these things, it makes them far and away more powerful and really tips things in their favor by a huge margin. See below for knockback, but that was what made us decide that it made the heroes too powerful. When you hit a monster and can spend a couple surges and send it 10 spaces away "as the razorwing flies" but only technically 5 spaces, that's overpowered. Same thing with Spiritwalker, as the razorwing flies 20 space, actually only 10 spaces with the template method. Mahkra had asked for possible exploits before, I'll provide a possibility. How does the rule interact with Knockback? That would have a radius and be a template too based on the wording. The only part I see being in contention is what do they mean by move the figure 3 spaces. Does it mean follow the movement rules (so as the razorwing flies) or are they just describing the physical actions the player must take (pick the piece up and place it somewhere)? My group has always thought of this the second way (pick up and place). If this was discussed before, sorry for asking again. Just point me in the right direction for the discussion.
  13. Dar Hilzernod's combat ability is worded exactly like a weapon that has an ability that is triggered by spending surges. When battling him, he has the ability: ~ ~ : each hero affected by this attack loses his choice of 1 fatigue (if able) or 2 wounds (ignoring armor). This ability may be used any number of times. I wasn't talking about his reinforce ability. Sorry for the confusion. I could have sworn that there was a level or encounter leader that had something that said to spend surges on the ability. I don't have access to the cards to check right now, unless there is something on BBG that can be downloaded. I'll check there tomorrow and see.
  14. Antistone said: Incidentally, are there any addition things for monsters to spend surges on in an advanced campaign, or any additional ways for heroes to get Fear? Surges: Dar Hilzernod the Dragon Avatar specific lieutenant has one. I think there are a couple dungeon level or encounter leaders that have something too. Fear: like James, I can't think of any others.
  15. Antistone said: I asked you to provide evidence in favor of your position. Pointing out things that the rules don't say does not count. Especially when you're making up new techncial definitions for words that aren't defined or even used in the abilities in question. As you stated, radius is defined by the English language and has been defined in this very thread from what I remember. Your assumption is that these abilities only have a radius and must become a template that follows the breath template. If by pointing out ways that you could be in error isn't supporting my position when it is the only other viable one presented, I don't know what to do. Range is defined in the base rules quite clearly. Pg. 11 the picture example, Counting Range Example, explains it. Range is the number of spaces from an origin point to an ending point. If I am given a number of spaces for an ability, that would also be its range. As far as I know, range cannot go through walls and must use the available spaces provided. That would include going around walls. The FAQ only states that the abilities function like the breath example, not the breath template. The only thing the breath example explains is that a flying figure must be able to reach the figure in question for that figure to be affected by it. There is no mention that there may or may not also be a range limitation on the ability itself. Breath explicitly says it doesn't have one, but that does not mean other abilites that follow its example won't have a range limitation. I don't appreciate being told to give arguments and then when I do, being told they aren't valid because you decided they don't fit some arbitrary definition you came up with. Honestly, it's insulting. If you wanted me to explain something better because you don't know what I'm saying or want clarification on parts of it, ask me.
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