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Blood Pact

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  1. It also allows people to interface with Power Armour the same way a Space Marine's Black Carapace does, allowing them to get the full benefit of it. Though most suits need to be specially made with this in mind, since those that don't feature/require an MIU or something in place of it, would be dangerous to wear.
  2. Is the Backpack Ammo Supply what is used for Heavy Bolters, or do they have their own stat to better represent those huge ammo hoppers that they lug around on their back?
  3. Oh how did I know that you'd make a flippant and dismissive reply? I'll have you know that I consider you every bit as bad as ak-73, because of how often you pull that and other ****. But since I respect you more than you obviously respect anyone else here, I'll actually give your post serious consideration. Space Marine Power armour is made from composite materials, pretty much all of which are fictional, which provides some problems for judging its effectivness. Personally I've always considered Ceramite to be something like a combination of concrete and ceramic, but that's just supposition on my part. What we do know is that it is extremely effective against small arms, which is what the SAW is, despite its high rate of fire. The M995, which you seem to think is all that's needed to counter their armour, can punch through only about a half-inch of steel. Even assuming that their Power Armour is only as strong as steel armour plate, it would be a great misbelief to think that it was only half an inch thick, I'd be more inclined to think it was at least two inches thick. While the Barett is so overrated it's really become quite absurd. It weighs about 30 pounds, is over 4 feet long, and is incredibly loud. It's only real advantage as a sniper rifle is that it has an extremely long range. Aside from range, there's no reason you'd use it against a human target any more than the many other rifles available. Of course Space Marines are hardly human, making it a good choice to use against them, as long as one keeps in mind the above. But it's still not going to be the Staff of Instant Death that you seem to be making it out to be. Bolters fire .75 calibre armour piercing rounds, and Space Marines still manage to survive them, if not as well as they can shrug off conventional small arms, and I think it's fair if we considered the Barett to be about equal to them, if anything I think I'm being a bit too generous to the Barett. There is some sense in this, considering that the game even makes Heavy Stubbers suspiciously similar in appearance to the Ma Duece.
  4. Certainly... Honestly, do whatever you want in your game, but using the current fluff for the Marines, making the Sisters of Battle some sort of police force for them not only detracts from their own fluff, but that of the Marines. Part of the cool thing about the Space Marines is just how little control the Imperium has over them, a fact which scares the Imperium no small amount, in fact. They serve the Imperium out of loyalty to the God-Emperor and their Primarchs, out of devotion to what (they think) he stood for and, out of thanks for the legacy of their Chapter that he created. They're very much akin to fuedal knightly orders, bound only by ancient pledges of fealty and obligation. Noone, and I mean noone, can really order a Space Marine Chapter Master to do anything, and they know it. And frankly, unaugmented Sisters of Battle aren't up to the task of policing that sort of thing. They have numbers on their side, but they're able to maintain those numbers specifically because they're 'merely' a bunch of well equiped and well trained humans. Trying to pump every one of them with enough bionic, chemical, and bionetic augmentations to bring them up to par with Space Marines on an individual level would by necessity limit their numbers. The latter also begs the question of how they carry out their duties as the Space Marine police and be the militant arm of the Echlesiarchy, because they wouldn't have the number for both those tasks, as the latter entails a lot of garrisson work, which is quite frankly a waste of time for a being that is as powerful as a Space Marine.
  5. By the God-Emperor ak-73, you're doing things more harm than good half the time, you know that? Anyway, while we've already established bringing realism in to discussion of a fictional game is.. difficult to implement, let's try and use some common sense for a few minutes... "You know, I've always wondered why, after the Emperor usd them to conqure most of the galaxy, why the enemeies of mankind (internal and external) haven't developed as many power armor shredding weapons as one might think. I mean, I'm sorry, no matter how awsome you are, multi-melta > meltagun > power sword > bolter > lasgun." How about because they're not the optimal weapons for every situation? For the same reason the US armed forces doesn't give every man an FN Minimi (or SAW as they're otherwise known) or Milkor MGL (a 6-shot, 40mm grenade launcher). The Eldar know that the Space Marines are not the only armed force at the Imperium's disposal, and so they don't arm all their soldiers with Plasmaguns because if they were to find themselves up against the massed infantry of the Imperial Guard they'd be buried under the weight of numbers which they can't kill fast enough, due to the relatively low rate of fire in comparison to the Shuriken Catapult. Then there are the inherent weaknesses of the weapons themselves, that are less than situational. A Multi-Melta is an anti-tank weapon that needs the incredibly augmented strength of a Space Marine to lug around 'man portable', though could possibly be done with a two-man team like the Imperial Guard does with other weapons. And while the tabletop stats are hardly the best judge to go by, I think it's not too unreasonable to assume that Meltaguns have a fairly short range (The Munitorium Manual backs this up). Another big reason is expense. Remember the fancy body armour from Batman Begins? Able to stop just about everything, but the army didn't implement it because it cost something like $100,000 a piece? Yeah, **** like that is real. And like in the movie, the reason why they aren't using it is because it is insanely expensive to make. While the Imperium doesn't run off money so much, it does find itself limited by available resources, and technological expertise, while other races have similar limiting factors. Plasmaguns are just too **** expensive and complicated to give out to every tom, ****, and harry in the Imperial Guard (or Fire Warrior, or Guardian militiaman). Likewise, if every man could have a Power Sword, then they would, but again they're difficult to make, and so are reserves for people who earn them somehow (officers, Space Marine veterans, etc.). To again use a real life simile, it's like how some equipment is reserved for use by the special forces, instead of being handed out to every grunt Private, because its more expensive, or simply requires more specialized training to use. "So, even if a SM is 10 times as strong as a strong human, or 20!, so what? He's still an easy target for a normal guy with a precise anti-vehicular weapon. I tend to agree with Kage, SMs are somewhat over-rated, I watched the DW trailer movie today and it said a single SM is able to easily take on and beat a modern day division! Really? I don't accept that, it doesn't really make sense. A modern day division, or let's say more relevantly a IG company, possesses weapons that can take out armoured vehicles - I think they'd have a fair chance of taking down one marine." Therein lies The Rub, so to speak. Modern anti-vehicular weapons aren't precise. Or rather, they are precise when it comes to hitting something as large and un-agile as a friggin tank. None of the modern armoured fighting vehicles available, even the LAV's used by the Marines and Canadian Forces, are especially manueverable, fast certainly but they're not turning on a time, meaning that it's relatively easy for modern anti-tank weapons to be "precise". While a Marine in their armour is three or even four times as large as a regular infantryman, that's still a hell of a lot smaller than any sort of vehicle, combined with the manueverability of a man on foot and a speed that greatly exceeds that or a normal man. So yeah, while I certainly wouldn't rule out the usefulness of anti-tank weapons, it's not a simple case of swapping guns for Javelins and winning the day. Now as for their effectiveness, well I'm of the opinion that it increases exponentially with the quanity of Marines involved, and while certainly I don't think a single Space Marine could take down a modern Infantry Division (10,000-15,000 men), I think a squad of 10 Marines could do a hell of a lot of damage to one (for the sake of arguement, we'll say it's regular infantry and not Rangers, or anything like that). Between their Power Armour and the fact that they're being shot with what are basically Autoguns, the majority of the fire they're recieving is going to bounce right off them (in many cases, quite literally). Now the type of fight we're involved in matters a great deal, a big flat open plain with the two sides 300 yards apart is going to play to the Division, allowing them to employ those anti-tank wepaons to their full effect. But an extremely close range firefight in city-streets is going to favour the Marines, and just for this expample we'll assume that the Marines get an arrangment that favours them, due to benefiting from Drop Pod insertion, or whatever. Now, even with all this I don't think Space Marines would do something so insane as deploying 10 men to fight 10,000. Like the US Military, deploying overwhelming force to totally anihilate your enemy would be quite typical operating procedure for a force of Marines, and if we were to up the numbers to 50, I think a modern infantry division would be quite utterly butchered, almost to a man, assuming the Space Marines got to fight the battle on their terms (IE: they pick the battlefield and deploy themselves to take advantage of it). Now, the 10 Marines, even with all they had going for them, would need to close to close range for the best chances, which isn't really difficult for them to do afterall. Once closed with the infantry, they'd have greatly negated the majority of their anti-tank weapons, leaving 40mm grenade launchers, and hand grenades as the best weapons against them, which soldiers would be reluctant to use out of concern for hitting their fellow soldiers. As such ranges the Marines could place their shots with extreme accuracy, getting the most out of automatic and burst fire from their Bolters, and close the gap to melee whenever the opportunity presented itself, which is where they'd wreak absolute slaughter, because despite the close quarters training that all soldiers in a modern army recieve, they're just not trained and eqiuped to handle something of that magnitude. So, and again remembering that this is being fought on the Marines' terms, the whole battle probably would take a general form of close-range firefights, followed by intense melee, whereupon the infantry would fall back, initiating another close-range firefight until the Marines could make it in to melee again. A smart commander would probably have part of his forces move way way back while another portion kept the Marines occupied, taking advantage of the range to lay down fire with their anti-vehicular weaponry. Of course, Marines are smart too, and if they brought along a Heavy Bolter, that's the point where they'd lay down some heavy fire of their own, probably pinpointing the the men taking aim with their anti-tank rockets and such, which isn't an unreasonable assumption. I'd imagine everyone here is familiar with video games enough to know what a Heads Up Display (HUD) is, which just gotta be something Marines have in their helmets, which is where the targeting would come in as I'd also imagine that it helps with threat assesment and target acquisition, highlighting the men with the anti-vehicular weaponry so they can be eliminated before inflicting serious damage to the squad. Carrying on, the side that's victorious depends on how we're setting goals here. If one side has to eliminate the other entirely, well the Marines can't win simply because they just don't have enough ammunition to do the job (extrapolating from what a modern soldier carries, they'd only have roughly 4,000 rounds, give or take a few hundred). So we'd have to go with the more sensible condition of routing your enemy from the field of battle, which the Marines have a better chance of doing. The blow to morale and unit coherency, after being literally decimated by a mere 10 Space Marines (even, and perhaps especially, because they're giant godlike warriors of deadly skill and excellent equipment), would take a large toll on the division in addition to the casualties actually inflicted. Can ya believe I actually dropped out of basic training? God that really was the worst mistake of my life (Canadian Forces, if anyone is interested).
  6. I'd imagine it takes a lot more than one Ork and its handful of pets visiting a place for several days to really get an infestation going to any degree that actually matters.
  7. The Blood Ange's catalyse the process with the blood of their Apothecaries, it doesn't do the whole job on its own. While the Space Wolves lase the food and drink given to its neophytes with some sort of chemical before tossing them out in to the wild to fend for themselves. Imperial Fists use pain through nerve induction, or something like it. The other Chapters I don't recall.
  8. I disagree. The charts need to be used against the enemies of the Marines too, not just the Marines themselves. It might be a bit redundant for most of their enemies, considering how many things would need to Horde up to be a challengem but it still needs to be there. Seeing as how it's a core book, it's better that they saved space by only giving us a standard one, but I could see a future release having critical charts just for Space Marines (I don't see them being a high priority, but I wouldn't be surprised if we got them some day).
  9. UncleArkie said: I just love the almost obsessive way that people behave towards this subject. It seems that there is a grouping on one hand who are just inches away from screaming male chauvinist pigs at anyone who tries to deny them their precious female marine... A little too late, I'm afraid. The thread that prompted me to join these boards was one of these kind, argueing about female Space Marines. What specifically drove me was the fact that someone decided to accuse the game (but no specific person) of being chauvanist, with a few comments on it being racist thrown in for the hell of it. Now this is flat out untrue, of course. 40K really layers on the grimdark when talking about the world of the Imperium, but it doesn't really talk about any systematic or even endemic hatred toward the female sex. At worse, all we've seen is that women can have a harder time excelling in fields that are traditionally male dominated just like in real life (such as mentioned in the case of Commissar Balshin from the Gaunt's Ghosts novels), but even that doesn't stop them from being the CO's of Guard regiments, assassins, governors, or Inquisitors. Racism has a somewhat better claim, but not really. The alien races have long since moved past being characatures of real life ethnicities, and the cosmetic alterations in some Space Marine Chapters are really weak examples. Plus it's never ever been said that everyone is white, or of any other race, in fact it's avoided entirely, all people have to go on is assumptions (which are like assholes). The frequency of the caucasian appearance in models and art can be quite easily explained too, by the fact that it's been proven that artists generally have an easier time with subjects of their own race, rather than other races. BaronIveagh said: Blood Pact: you know how someone pointed out the thing about glass houses earlier? (Granted, Talos just exceeded even my tolerance) I'm afraid your post referencing Godwin's Law didn't impress me as to your class.
  10. Someone remind me how it's us, the 'fluff nazis' who are the assholes here? And not folks like Talos and Baron?
  11. Adam France said: There seems to be a double standard as regards the relative power of Sector Lords coming from supporters of this conspiracy theory, on the one hand Sector Lords do not seem to have the reach or ability to monitor the progress of a crusade that's theoretically going on adjacent to their sector and which they are concerned is draining their resources, but on the other they are apparently able to put the fear of the G-E into the High Lords of Terra over the possibility that they might be ordered to send troops where-ever the heck they're told. I don't really think past canon supports that Sector Lords get any say whatsoever in the deployment of IG regiments raised in their sectors if they are over-ruled by higher Imperial authorities. Their opinion is important at the planetary and Sector level, but pretty limited and minor beyond that. The Macharius Crusade for example dragged in troops from many different Sectors and even different Segmentum. There's no evidence I've ever seen this caused any significant ill-feeling or uprisings amongst Sector Lords. Even a backwater Sector like Calixis is not short of canon-fodder -ah 'brave new recruits' after all. I think what you're neglecting to understand is that a Sector Lord has a lot to do, not only the managment of their Sector, but also fending off political rivals, handling the intrigues of court, and various other things. Hax is a paranoid, micro-managing, power monger, but that doesn't mean he has a lot of free time to put the Margin/Achillus Crusade under a magnifying glass. And he really has no reason tot ake a closer look either, I would imagine the same goes for the Scarus and Ixaniad sector lords. And they would certainly have enough political influence to cause trouble for the Crusade efforts. Inability to find out does not equal inability to cause trouble for the Crusade. And as for the Macharius Crusade, this is just speculation, but I'd assume that after he left the Segmentum Solar with his vast armies and warfleet, I'd assume there was little recruiting done from that part of the Imperium, and that instead he was limited to drawing from the Segmentum he was operating in (Pacificus?).
  12. Or, ya know, they just say it's going to the Margin Crusade. Which is what we've been told they're doing.
  13. I just think some consistency accross all 3 systems would have been best, instead of leaving Dark Heresy the odd man out.
  14. I wouldn't count on seeing it on the store shelves. The CE's for the last two games sold out during pre-orders on the FFG website, and I expect Deathwatch to do the same (faster than Rogue Trader even, though probably not as fast as Dark Heresy). Amazon and other online book-sellers I wouldn't count on having the CE either. So like the rest of us, you're just going to have to keep an eye on the website.
  15. Yeah yeah, we're wierdos for liking the setting the way it is written. I can't speak for the others, but I know that when I play a game that uses the 40K setting, I want to play a game that uses the 40K setting.
  16. "Ship of the Line" is a rather vague term, but using the old wooden ships as a base, it could be anything from a Light Cruiser all the way up to a Battleship. So one shouldn't assume. And again, you're just making **** up to try and prove your point. There's no reason the Crusade has to be small to keep its secret, the Imperium isn't a big bumbling incompetant boob that can't handle that sort of thing. They lose so much information by accident I imagine it would only be too easy to manage. Plus, everyone thinks everything is just going to the Margin Crusade, so it's not like they need to be sneaky about where they're getting ships from. Don't assume anything based off of a very limited and narrow snapshot of the Crusade's composition.
  17. I'm a little dissaponted there's no Valkyrie Gunship listing... but since you could just tweak the Gun Cutter rules to represent one easily enough, I suppose it's no biggie.
  18. I don't see how the presence of a Rogue Trader proves your point. Which was that they're so powerful and indepdenent that they could just fly through the warp gate in to the Jericho Reach and nobody could stop them. Whereas it seems quite evident that they're there as a part of the actual Crusade, and they sure as hell didn't just elbow their way in to that at the last moment, or fly up and say "just try to stop me!"... Cause that sort of thing just would have ended badly for them, possibly in the form of a lot or Marines teleporting over to their ships.
  19. Are there Purity Seals, as equipment? And if so, what do they do?
  20. kenshin138 said: Bah, I replied in the other thread but this probably should have gone here: As far as the size of the Crusade, unless I am mistaken the text says "Notable Imperial Guard Units", then gives a list of named regiments. Being that these are the notable ones it implies that the crusade has far more Guard resources, just too many to list completely. Thus I'm not sure there is a real fixed or known size of the Crusade. Well that's something of a relief then. It's just covering the regiments that are famous, or infamous, for one reason or another. Like having participated in a noteworthy battle, or handled themselves better than could typically be expected of a Guard unit (the Gaunt's Ghosts of the Achillus Crusade, turning the tide wherever they land). Of course, we're back to square one on just how massive an undertaking keeping the secret would be, with no solid figures to go off of and just supposition.
  21. Deathwatch has Reknown, which is apparently a representation of how much of a hero your Marine has been, the higher the rating, the better the equipment you can requisition from your superiors in the Deathwatch. And I've done a lot of scouring, of both the books and the forums, one major difference is psychic powers, which look pretty incompatible to me. See RT (and DW) powers don't have threshold ratings, you just make a regular trait roll, with modifications for Psy Rating and other factors. Their powers also have different XP values. I've found no way to convert a DH psyhchic power to RT, or vice versa, because there seems to be no system for extrapolating the Threshold value, which can vary pretty widely in DH.
  22. Copying over my post from the secret thread... Not every battle is an obscenely massive affair involving millions of men on both side, the likes of the Siege of Vraks. The Siege even strikes me as actually being an unusually large affair, as far as Imperial battles go. That said, I am surprised by how seemingly small the Crusade is. Also, I doubt most planets have populations more than a billion.
  23. Not every battle is an obscenely massive affair involving millions of men on both side, the likes of the Siege of Vraks. The Siege even strikes me as actually being an unusually large affair, as far as Imperial battles go. That said, I am surprised by how seemingly small the Crusade is.
  24. Considering some of the answers most recently given to us in the Q&A thread? Yes.
  25. There's no real standard size for an Imperial Guard regiment, even the Munitorium Manual, the closest thing we have to a canon word on the subject, just gives a rough figure. Typically it's somewhere between 2,000 and 10,000 men.
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