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VanCamper

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  1. If they ever come out with a Stalingrad expansion, which everyone seems to agree would be great, then FFG definitely will have to expand the rules for AT guns, as the Days of Fox expansion really is not adequate.Since they already went with equipment as a 3rd trait, then they might as well add some new reference sheets with attack values relative to the AT gun being the target., or come out with cards instead, so that if future other types of weapons, vehicles get added, then they just add a new card for the deck.
  2. Hey, its actually happens to a tank when playing World of Tanks., before you get some experience with the characteristics of the particular tank. Drove up onto some partial ruins of a building at too fast a speed and the tank was just stuck at a wierd angle. Its a slight glich maybe with the program, but I thought, actually its pretty realistic to have that in the game.
  3. For heavy vehicles, if hit while in rubble, and lightly damaged, they are immobilized on die roll of 4,5,6 ? simulates more likely track damage in rubble., makes it risky to move vehicle into closer combat with infantry., and make vehicle a target for artillery fire.
  4. Definitely need some official "errata" to allow AT guns to be tranported by Trucks and Halftracks., and make an exception for 88 flak gun, pertaining to a squads ability to move an AT gun one hex. 88 flak gun should NOT be allowed to be moved, except by transport truck or Halftrack only. .
  5. I like that idea to leave the gun on the board, backwards to the Truck or HT towing it, so as to indicate it is limbered and being towed. Makes it easy to identify on the board, rather than having to check the no. of the transport marker under the truck. The original rule has the AT having the equipment trait, yet for targeting, the reference sheet shows the vehicle icon, which mean tanks engage the AT gun like it was a vehicle. If players agree that an AT gun can be placed in an entrenchment, then that gives an AT gun a +2 extra cover, so along with its own armor value of+ 2, and if in woods +2, then +6 total cover is good enough, especially, if CF rule of +1/additional unit is used. As I understand the proposed limber rule for AT guns: 1. It requires one action to activate a Truck( or Halftrack), to perform an advance action, which allows the Truck to either begin in a hex with an AT gun and a fresh squad, or move into the hex, and then the squad is activated with a 2nd action, expends 2 mps to limber the AT gun, and then squad loads onto the Truck. To make it easy to distinguish the Truck as towing the gun, the gun can be kept on board with the Truck, turned in opposite direction at the back of Truck. The squad loaded, is removed off board and placed on a transport marker. 2. The Truck now being loaded, and towing gun, may move as many more hexes, as its remaining mps allow, and end its movement still loaded, as the squad that was loaded is fatigued, and a gun cannot both be limbered and unlimbered in the same turn. 3. In the next turn, if a Truck/Halftrack begins the turn already loaded, it may be activated with an advance action, to move up to its full mp, ending its move in a hex, where the squad which is loaded (and considered fresh), may be unloaded, expending 2 mps, and may unlimber the gun also, without being fatigued. Then the squad may be placed in Op fire mode using a 2nd action, which allows the gun to be fired in Op fire in this same turn. 4. A halftrack, which is used to limber an AT gun, may load one squad also. A Truck which normally could load 2 squads,may not load a 2nd squad, if also towing a gun. So in effect, both Halftracks and Trucks have just one squad capacity when towing guns. Other questions: A: If the hex in which the AT gun is unlimbered contains an unoccupied entrenchment, can the AT gun be placed on the entrenchment marker (ie. an improved position ), as part of the normal unlimbering action in which the squad expends 2 mps to both unload itself and unlimber the gun. B. If it is decided that an AT gun can be inside a fortification, bunker, or building, then, IMO, the arc of fire should be limited to perhaps 180 degrees, and designating which hexside is the "front" center hex. C. Should an engineer squad be able to make an entrenchment for an unlimbered gun, after which, an entrenchment marker is placed under the gun, signifying it is now an improved position.
  6. This is great idea, because it introduces variables like in Axis and Allies Miniatures cards., which is one thing I have kind of missed in TOI. TOI corrects the problem with AAM, in that initiative and the action phase sequence, allows one player get a "first shot" and can damage/ destroy an enemy unit before it can fire back. In AAM, every unit is guaranteed an initial survival after moving, and damage disruption effects applied only after all units get to fire. (a kind of fair play for game purposes, but not really realistic IMO). So a combination of the variablility of individual units as in AAM, combined with the more realistic mechanics of TOI, may the perfect tactical wargame.
  7. New Unit: AT gun Squad: The AT gun figure may be placed on the center of a squad base, and 2 holes filled with 2 infantry figures. This becomes an AT gun squad, which is counted as a regular infantry squad for stacking purposes. Loading and Unloading AT gun squads: Now you can load the AT gun squad, and another typical infantry squad in a truck like normal, because the AT gun squad is a single unit, not 2 units. And when unloading, both squads can be unloaded, and in the same hex with the truck, which is better than 2 separate infantry squads AND a separate AT gun, which in TOI rules violates stacking limits, if the truck is in the same hex too. Movement values for AT gun squads: For the 88 flak AT gun squad, the squad has 0 mps. It requires a transport to move the squad. For the other smaller AT gun squads, 2 mps. It costs no mps to load or unload an AT gun squad with the limitation that the AT squad must not have moved, and may not both load and unload in the same turn. It costs one action to load or unload the AT gun squad, but if unloading, the AT gun squad is considered unfatigued and may be placed in Op fire by using a 2nd action. An AT gun squad which moves itself, may not use Move and Fire action. An AT gun squad capable of self movement, may move into or out of an entrenchment by expending an additional mp. Carrying capacity of Halftracks and Trucks: A Halftrack may carry either a regular infantry squad, OR an AT gun squad. The truck can carry two regular squads as normal, OR one AT gun squad, and one regular type infantry squad, thus being allowed to unload both of them in the same hex with the truck without violating stacking limits. Movement reduction for Trucks carrying 88 flak gun squad: Trucks carrying an 88 flak gun squad, or other larger artillery field gun, have very limited movement across country, so maybe clear non road terrain cost to 2 mps . On roads, the mp rate should be 1/2 mp per road. (This is rate was previously agreed by many on forum as a more realistic rate for trucks) Cover value and Unit trait for AT gun Squads: The AT gun squad is given a +1 or +2 cover for the shield of the AT gun and is not considered as a vehicle trait, but as an infantry trait. This will make tanks have to use their lower AS(attack strength) and range values to engage the AT gun squad, which is more realistic, as the AT gun was not quite as easy to spot except for the 88 flak gun, which could be given the lesser +1 cover, while 75mm and 6 pdr AT gun squads get +2 cover (smaller target silouette). (Note: this has not been playtested, so it may be too much cover, especially if allowing AT gun squad to use entrenchments) Op Fire after being Unloaded: The idea of being able to place the AT gun and crews into Op fire after unloading can be easily done with another action, as an AT gun squad will be unfatigued when unloaded as per the conventional TOI rules concerning transportation of regular infantry squads. So what you wargaming fanatics think?
  8. Sounds like there needs to be a lot of extra operations cards to be added., to cover all these issues, especially concerning AT guns, and whether they are separate vehicles or are equipment trait that is different from vehicle trait. I do not like the way the AT gun is considered as a vehicle with armor value, for target purposes, as Tanks can then shoot at them from longer ranges, with higher AS. If AT gun could be considered as the same trait as an infantry squad, but still provide maybe +2 cover, the Tanks would have to use their lower AS and range factor similar to engaging infantry squads. And limiting the Combined Fire to normal range, would then make it necessary for enemy units to get closer to the AT gun before it could be effectively engaged, which IMO, is more realistic, as AT guns were easier to camoflage and except for the 88 flak gun, were more difficult to spot at first. And light AT guns should be allowed to be moved by squad into entrenchments, by expending +2 mps,which really represent both improved sandbag positions, and slit trenches combined. 88 flak guns would require a halftrack to move 88 flak gun into a hex and then unlimbered with squad onto a entrenchment marker. An 88 flak gun and or ATguns could start the game, however, already on an entrenchment marker, or maybe on a fortification marker. If in a fortification, however, the 88 flak guns arc of fire should probably be limited to 3 hexes with a hex designated (with mark on the fortification) as the "front" hex postion. (ie. 180 degree arc). This might apply for the light AT guns also, but not sure, since some bunkers had 360 degree openings, through which a smaller AT gun could probably shoot thru.
  9. After all the options discussed, the easiest modification for CF is the +1 per unit participating, and maybe the limitation that all units must be in normal range, so you don't get lots of Crusaders firing long range at an 88 flak gun and eliminating it. Or lots of T34s firing long range at a Tiger. As far as different multisided dice, its easier, but it causes a lot of wierd results to happen also and more rules, so guess rolling 6 sided dice is okay, if the +1/unit for CF is used, which generally will not be more than about 15 dice max rolled at one time. For CF attacks on a heavy vehicle, only a heavy vehicle, and squads with an AT ability, or an AT gun with squad. should be eligible to attack from range. MGs, and other squads without AT speciality, and Halfracks should not be eligible unless they are adjacent to the heavy vehicle targeted. If the target is a light vehicle , squad, or AT gun, however, then any unit is eligible to participate with the lead unit., and at range up to their normal range. No long range CF attacks allowed., unless with special operations card for artillery barrage maybe.
  10. Thats the unique thing about TOI, which is different than other games where the AT gun and crew are an inseparable unit. In TOI the gun is just a piece of equipment, and whatever squad is available can be make the gun operational. Thats actually more realistic, but it can get confusing which squad is able to operate the gun. Now I thought about having a base made for the AT guns, which the gun stays on, but has a couple of holes for figures to be placed in like a regular squad base, and in effect this is an AT gun squad, which is its own unit. The unit would take casualties like a regular infantry squad, and when the last infantry figure is eliminated, the AT gun base can be either reinforced by another squad transfering its infantry figures to the AT gun base, if in the same hex, just as they could for another squad. The AT gun on the base would not be considered a vehicle trait but rather the infantry or soldier trait, and would provide a +2 cover as long as the AT gun is not selected for casualties. The AT gun would be worth 2 casualties, and the entire base would have the AT gun, plus 3 holes for infantry figures, thus requiring 5 hits total to destroy to eliminate the AT gun base too.
  11. .Need to bring back the Scenario Editor, or make a new program so maps can be posted on the forum Would be interesting to have quick turn scenario tactical challenges posted with commentary on what moves to make and what cards to activate to best completed the turn or turns, similar to a chess problem.
  12. Brummbar said: Making the Unlimber cost 4 MP would in essence fatigue the squad making the Op-Fire for the gun practically useless. That is why I propose the Op-Fire on Unlimber. It offers some options without being equivalent to a self-propelled. Its a little confusing to me, so a few questions how it works: So, no additional movement cost to limber or unlimber the gun right? So a Truck or HT (carriers) can move into a hex with an AT gun and one squad, and if the squad is fresh, the squad can limber the AT gun, and then load also into the carrier, expending just 2 pts as in normal transportation. The squad is then fatigued. This sequence requires 2 actions yes? One to activate the carrier, and one to activate the squad to load and limber gun. A carrier which begins a new turn, already loaded with squad and gun, can move up to its full? movement, yes? And then the carrier ending its movement, the fresh squad may be unloaded (does NOT require an additional action right?), and the AT gun is unlimbered along with squad, and the AT gun is then placed in Op fire mode, while the squad, remains fresh, not fatigued. All of this with one action? or does it require a 2nd action to place AT gun in Op fire? .
  13. For gamesake, the halftracks should be allowed to load/unload 88 flak gun along with 1 squad as the crew. A card and a token can be made to designate which halftracks are prime movers.
  14. The AT gun is equipment, which is presumably attached to the squad which makes it an AT gun unit. The AT gun unit, then, may be loaded/unloaded like a regular infantry squad, except that it requires 4 pts to load or unload, rather than 2 pts. Combine that with allowing the AT gun unit after being unloaded to be in Op fire mode, and IMO, thats a simple way to get the AT gun into action without making it a mobile assault gun.
  15. Rather than rolling lots of 6 sided dice, which tend to get lost, fall off the board, and becomes really kind of funny to roll 24 dice or more using the original TOI CF rule (which I do not), there is an easier method that I have been experimentng with, which is using a single multi-sided die that matches the AF(attack factor) of the attacking unit. For Shermans: 8 sided die., PZ4 and M10: 10 sided die, Panther& Tiger I: 12 sided die, 88 flak gun and Tiger 11: 14 sided die. Then keep all the DF (defense factors) of the units as fixed factors, no need for defender to roll dice, as the unit is guaranteed its defense factor. An attacking unit like a Sherman, would roll one 8 sided die and subtract the DF of the target and apply that result as the number of hits. Range modifiers for Attackers die roll: 1. Half range: Add 2 to Attackers die roll 2. Close range (adjacent): Add 4 to Attackers die roll For infantry squads: the standard die is a 4 sided die, which gets modified by MG and elite units, by adding +2 per MG figure, or +1 per elite unit in squad. So for example, a squad with one regular, one MG, and one elite would be a 4 sided die roll with +3 added to die roll result. A squad with 4 elite would add +4. 2 MGs on same base would add +4. If you like the CF rule, select one unit as the lead unit, use the appropriate multi-side die that represents its AS, then add +1 per extra unit that participates with the lead unit to the die roll result. (this is Aussie Digger modification which works well with the regular TOI method too). Terrain modifiers are applied as cover, as in regular TOI rule., except that woods, bldg, rough terrain,cover is just added to the units DF, becoming the new fixed DF value of the unit, while it is in that hex. Additional Strategy or Operations card could allow for a unit to have a greater rate of fire than just one die roll/action. Regular=1, Veteran=2, Elite= 3 shots, ie. 3 multi-sided die, so an Elite unit could attack up to 3 separate targets, rolling one die on each, or may combine all on one target, rolling 3 dice on the same target. As you can see, if using this modification concept, a single standard 75 mm gun Sherman is not going to be able to do anything to a Tiger 1 in woods hex, unless closing to half range, or better yet, close range. An M10, however, has a chance at normal range (but minimal), of scoring a hit on a Tiger I in a woods hex. At half range, the M10 has about a 33% chance, while the Sherman at half range, has the 20% probablity the M10 had at normal range.At close range, the M10 has 45% chance, while Sherman has 33% chance. Damage results are applied as in regular TOI rules.
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