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DB.Cooper

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  1. No probs, mate. No problems at all. Card Board Gamers said: My comment came out very d*ckish. Sorry about that. Thanks for posting! With loops winning I smell restrictions.
  2. In the end, we got an entertaining final. Congrats to Eblis, the winner and to everyone who went there for this funny event. See ya!!! DB
  3. Hi folks. It's been a while since I wrote last time: i'm in the ita's distributor op right now and something changed. Can't play a lot anymore, but still follow the game itself (I'm a translator too) and organize all the events with the help of our community and distributor itself. Our Regionals took plays this weekend: Agot on saturday (58 players) and Warhammer on sunday (22 players): both events could be bigger, but a recent heartquake in that area and some other issues (money, usually) we lost lots of players for this event… Anyway, talkin' about WH:I; great tournament, things changed a lot in the last 6 months and even if the game still needs some tweaking, I do really like what FFG is doing about it. The biggest thing I think is needed is a Race-based series of Delux expansion, so to give new and old players the opportunity to jump-in or increase game possibilities. Anyway, things are going great and our regional is another demonstration of it. All the six races where there and with lots of differencies: - 2 Empires (1 aggro-ish/combo with the Van Klumpfs; 1 control); - 3 High Elves (1 board control with Lizards + Empire teches; 1 indirect damage; 1 "grove" deck); - 6 Chaos (4 pure control, 2 aggros); - 6 Orcs (3 rush, 1 control, 2 Combo decks); - 2 Dwarves (1 control, 1 combo); I miss some decks, but the concept is clear. Swiss rounds where everthing happened, then TOP 8 for the final rush!!!! In the TOP 8 we had: - 4 Chaos (2 aggros, 2 control); - 1 Orc Rush; - 1 Orc Combo; - 1 High Elf board control; - 1 Dwarf Combo. In the semi-finals, we had: - 3 Chaos (2 control, 1 aggro); - 1 Orc Combo. Long matches, especially the Chaos vs Chaos (control/control)…Long and difficult, with 2 great players…2-1 for the winner!!! In the final…Orc Combo vs Chaos Control. 3 matches (ended 2-1): long pain, slow choices, some luck… The first round, Chaos controls and closes with regular Kairos…That's it. Chaos 1, Orcs 0. Second round: - Orcs goes first: this time, it opens with Lobber + Warpstone + develop (Lord of Change)… - Chaos answers with double support (usual) in KZ and the Orc's player laughs in the inside… - Orc, phase 0: turn the Lord with RDEO: the deck shows double 0 cost Squig, Squig tracker (turns Squig Pen), Orc's scrap…Then, orc ritual for another Lord…Urguck + Fists in hands (the basic combo pieces). The chaos laughs and shuffles. 1-1… Third round: - Chaos goes again with double support in KZ; Orc opens with: "Scrap - Warpstone - Village!" - Chaos tries to get board control, but the next couple of quest phases help a lot the orc player. It drops: lobber, double 0-cost squig and a tracker. - Chaos player tries to clean with a bomb, but a ritual gives the orc player the chance to play a LORD, the only trick he had to TRY to close the game the turn after (it's kinda tricky, because forces the oppo to the following choice…) - Chaos player has to spend all of its resources for Pilgrimage. The Lord is back in hand… - Orc players gets 5 resources and draws 4. The Chaos player hasn't nothing to do, this round…Orc player plays Urguck and RDEO…When this happens, with 5 resources, this deck can do whatever he wants. Plays 7 maybe 8 cards, than another Lord comes out and the COMBO STARTS!! Hand shake and after party for everyone! THE WINNER'S DECK The deck is a control-combo deck, with no splash: Pure orc. The "squig" engine gives a lot of speed: it can get some 2nd turn "flashes"…even 1st turn, with a lucky hand. The combo is basically an infinite damage engine using Lord of Change, Urguck for his damage/resource production and Fists of Gork. It's a complex deck that needs complex choices: in most of the cases, it closes the deal in a standard "control" fashion, with big guys hittin' the oppo and control stuff to mantain permanent advantage. Here's the list Units 20 Baby Squig x3 Lobber Crew x3 Squig Herders x3 Squig Trackers x3 *Urguck x3 *Manfred Von Carstein x1 Lord of Change x3 Bloodthirster x1 Tactics14 Mork's Teef Ritual x3 Fists di Mork x3 Rip dere 'eads off! x3 Smash 'em x2 Troll Vomit x2 Raise Dead x1 Supports 16 Warpstone Excavation x3 Contested Village x3 The Unending Horde x1 One Orc's Scrap x3 Too 'ard to die x1 Guard Squig x3 Squig pen x2 Quest 1 Smash 'em, Bash'em! x1
  4. Ah, ok...Because the game was good when Empire destroyed evrything uh? The game now is balanced and Empire far from death (let's wait and see). Destruction has 2 main decks: Caos and Orc Rush. Order has 2 main decks: Dwarf and Empire Verena (it's still there). Then, there are elves, definitely coming out. I don't see any damage to the game. The fault is not ours: I think the exact opposite. I think that the players who kill the game are the ones who think that 2 tournaments demonstrate something that didn't even existed. Empire was still the best deck: european championship just demonstrates the ONLY weak point of empire (but still a balanced game with no restrictions to the empire side) and that polish meta is one of the best metas in the worlds...and worlds doesn't demonstrate anything, with all due respect. If you think that "major tournaments" (major by what? Number? National championship hosted the same number of players in 2-3 countries? That were minor tournaments?) are the only way to judge a game, you're wrong. I think everyone has a pretty good opinion about the game, but the idea of judging a game by 3 tournaments in a year it's pretty weird. Cheers DB bruce_wayne said: Virgo said: Sorry, your response about me being fascist seemed as if my point wasn't right, but I just guessed your motivations right I clearly understand what you're talking about. I just don't see, how printing more broken cards to balance those that are already out, is gonna help this game. People like you killed this game, you have that you want, empire restriction (3 card limitation and 1 forbbiden), i think this game is made for destruction deck, order can't win a tournament without a new restriction. What a shame!! i will not buy WI anymore.
  5. Vamosamorir said: And so is my right to stop spending money on a game where what matters is what think 4 people in a forum. More when the empire did not win a single major tournament in the last 6 months (and remember that the european winner plays a anti-chaos/DE deck, not anti empire). What will happen now if other faction (supposedly) dominates the game easily? More restrictions / ban list? ... we'll see. The polish deck wasn't build against a "single" deck. But, the fact is that our empire deck is the one who suffered the most against it. Not intentionally, maybe, but actually effective against the strongest version of empire. Actually, suffers many decks, especially now that people understood it. Don't think empire is "dead": it's just different and less effective (and that's good). Now you've to choose: control vs speed. And, let me add, noone deserves to be called "4 people". We're players, everyone of us (me, you and every other user) and FFG has a brain itself: when they wanted to change stuff without listening, they did, because they thought it was right (I don't care if it didn't...It's just an example of their balance). Now: they admitted an OBVIOUS mistake, banned VTHC and restricted the two main problems of Empire (too bad Verena is still out). Anyway, it's a move based on the experience of players and that's the best thing a game company can do. DB
  6. New faqs out. Rodrik and Forge restricted. Obviously we weren't right. Second petition, second time FFG recognizes its mistakes and make the game better. NOW, Warhammer Invasion is back. No more mistakes and in a couple of months will see 4-5 races tournaments. Thank you, FFG. DB
  7. rasdsaris said: And the last from me: please, less talking, more playing (yeah,I know 40 hours per week and that stuff...maybe to much : > we in Wroclaw are playing weekly about 2 tournaments 5 round each, and that's it ; ) Maybe not the quantity, but quality? Hi. 1- 40 hours per week, maybe, it's kinda joke. It's just to say "a lot". And, I'm not with them. I'm 50 kms far the nearest player. I meta-play and test with "quality" when I can. That's what keeps me here. 2- If you report what stuch told, I report what other guys told: empire is sick. 3- this is a forum. It's about talkin. Tournaments and friends are about playin'. Here we discuss: I bring my opinion, you bring yours and everybody does. Nothing more. Then, I really trust the international guys I know, maybe you, the jazzc or others...But I trust my mates too: the "third" player in europe is a good player, cannot be otherwise...And if he says that Dwarf deck is no more efficient as it was 5 days ago, I believe it. And I trust what I see, too. I read reports, lists as YOU do, and I play tournaments and games with my fluff (sometimes) deck against very powerful players as YOU do. What I know is: our empire deck has been stopped by the Dwarf deck, now it doesn't anymore. Do you really think they don't care about their decks? They learn from their mistake as everyone should do. Why should I quit trusting players I know? Because they didn't win Stalheck? If that's the point, well, this conversation gets grotesque. @ Jaszczurr: the discussion is not about beatable or unbeatable. Is about a bunch or "insane" cards that give the empire an advantage that other races don't have. That's it. And Rodrick is worst than Derricksburg. If you have straight resource advantage (as you said) with a bit less resource control on the oppo, you're normal. I can't see Osternacht/CfR banned/restricted, is a non sense...So..Restrict Rodrik. There aren't weak factions, actually: there are factions that are "normal" and empire that has absurd boosts.
  8. Hi, mate. I don't agree, at least not with the first part. I've never seen a game in which the starting hand and board is important like this one. Starting is already a good step to victory; then, what do you need to play? Resources and cards, unless you're rushing, that defines a different style. If you want me to be honest, here's the thing: I do think (I've ever do and I've written a bunch of guides about it and here we discussed it a lot), this game finds its perfect balance between aggro-ing and board controll-ing. Unlike other card games, the "common" winning strategy is aggro-control, where big-fat guys close the deal while you undermine opponent's engines with control-ish stuff. THat's how the game has been presented by FFG and that's how it looked for a while.. But since the start of Empire domination and since the "short" Skaven domination, I noticed two things that I really disliked (and still dislike): total control and rush. Rush it's just like "cheating" in this game: you'll ALWAYS have your 3 resources and your single cards. If the game gives you chances to customize the way you build up your capital, I don't see how a deck shoudl get a chance to win in 2 turns, when none of the players hasn't tried the game yet. And in the same way, pure control cards/recursion should be avoided, 'cause undermine the basics of the game (just as VTHC did). Then, there are exception, yes, but this is the "core" of the game, as shown by FFG. Now: I really like your deck, 'cause I do like the concept of control-combo, even if I'm generally not a combo player. You show what the game has to give and to do that you have to suffer (you're a great player and that list is pretty hard to play out): you have capital building, you have contorl and resource management and you have your winning condition. From a certain point of view, I can live with rush decks too, 'cause they really don't cut through finals during leagues: too dependant to luck. I do like "chaos" (even if I would have never design a card like Tzeentch's the way it is) and I do like DE (they're slowly coming out and still represent the core of the game). I do LOVE High Elves: lot of control/damage play, but full of tough choices. But Empire? (my fav since the first preview, actually)...Empire has everything..:Read my previous post and discuss about it with me, I really care your opinion, but I do trust your common sense too and I know you can easily see what's wrong. Making a MTG comparison, is like playing Blue/White/Black with just the islands. DB Jaszczurr said: I sometimes feel that some people think that who has better starts and board control wins the game. Let me remind you that 2 zones need to be burning to win, not board domination. I have seen numerous games in which empty chaos (only loyalities from quests) burned 2 zones via Unleashing the Spell against Empire which had 10 resources and 5 cards each turn.... Dwarfes that I played on European Championship are designed to burn two zones from scrap even in situation when I don't have anything on the board (except for some developements). Can Empire do that (either Dwarf or Chaos case)? Empire cannot deal any damage other than combat, and their combat damage is in 99% Hemmlers power. Just think how to use this constraints that empire has. Derricburg Forge needs to be restricted because it is used in all competitive order decks. I use it in all my Dwarf and HE decks, and this situation is not good. Jaszczur
  9. Vamosamorir said: and what cards give to empire empire this this great start??. Derricksburg forge. 1 card (that could not be in the first hand) unbalanced the game more than a recurrent PK iike the DE quest or the sorcerer of chaos ?????. And the new chaos quest??? recurrent destroyer of supports???. No empire (neither anti-empire) win Gen con or european Championships (or spanish). Vamosamorir said: No empire (neither anti-empire) win Gen con or european Championships (or spanish). The european deck (strong player) won by surprise. A single tournament/win doesn't say anything. What's important is a regular basys. After you know how to play against a deck, Empire wins. That's it. That's playtesting. I repeat: I don't even consider worlds: it was smallest than any average tournament around the world. Stalheck told us a lots of things: one of 'em is 7 empire decks in the TOP 16. 3 of them in top 8. And those players are the ones who someone describes as "whiners". Oh yeah, a whiner that flys to sthaleck, gets 3rd place against a deck that has a good win/loss ratio against empire. Not build against it, as the CREATOR says, but if we didn't became stupid in a single moment, that deck wouldn't go to far in a league. The paradox, is that he WINS against empire and lose against decks usually weak against empire. Not anti-empire? Maybe not willingly. But this discussion is not about "respect" to the winner, that has ALL our respect. The discussion is abot what Empire can do with 5 resources. Tell me something in the game that has the SAME effectiveness and impact on the game as a turn 2 double rodrik. Something. for which I gain 1 power and you lose two. Tell me something in the game that has the same everending effect as Rodrik/Skinks + Osternacht + Call for Reserves. Is a looping recursion. Find a single card in the game that force the oppo to "lose" cards as Verena does. Find a non-neutral contested village with no drawbacks. And we saw the "zoo". And the new "2/2" guy? Ah, and if needed, you have Iron Discipline to protect your hero, the BEST cost/power/drawback hero in the game (turn 2 Frederich in the QZ or BZ), the ONLY legend able to protect herself, plus a 1/1 with no real drawback (QZ only is something like a favour). Oh, and you have, if really needed, the chance to play ZOO, avoid Warpstone and put in Wilhelm, for the "move/destroy" Verena thing, as the old times. OOOOHH, the old times. How I miss Visit The Haunted City. A mistake recongnized by the designers. Banned by "whiners". And if you really think isn't enough, think about the fact that there's a "funny" synergy between the old big ass Pistoliers + Shrine to Taal...What a bad synergy, uh? Get 6, draw 3 turn 3 with no effort. Ok, but everyone else has this sturt, uh? You're right, from a side point of view: it's not a matter of DOMINATION. It's a matter of taking some time to analyse cards before lettin' em out. I repeat: I LOVE FFG. I play all of theri LCGs and something more...but the Empire thing is not good. And the solution is not putting out insane cards to get a new high level balance. Is to admit mistakes, ban and restrict. A "divine intervention" that saved the day lots of time in any game. Sorry for being a bit "aggressive", is not against you. It's just my bad attitude of passional player. Peace DB
  10. Doc9 said: So, Empire lost at Stahleck...or however you spell it. Who was it that said, "let's wait for Staleck"...or however you spell it, before deciding about the power of the Empire? OK they lost. They lost a big tourney. Can we please stop complaining about them now. Are they strong? yes. Are they unbeatable? no. Obviously. Quit whining about them now. They lost in Spain and now they have lost in Germany...or wherever it was. and I bet they will continue to lose...especially to Chaos and Dark Elf. Stop griping! Hi! Everything's already been said. Let's see what FFG does. If you think that we're just "whiners" you didn't get the point, really. Ah... Dark Elf and Chaos don't win against Empire, not that much.
  11. Awesome analysis, but let me point something out: I wouldn't think about "failing". Our players still believe that empire is stronger than any other race. And I believe it too. Can be stopped with an anti-meta deck, but the trick would last for a couple of tournaments and nothing more until he won't be nerfed. Noone (aside rush) should start with 3 cards in this game, at least it's a luky start or a "basic" engine start, with no possibilities to gain insane advantage. The zoo is definitely MAD. It's basically one more contested village. Anyway, I find that the Teokrata and Mamut analysis are perfect and with mine and jogo's, it's a clear SOS message to designers. I'm going to play High Elves in the near future, so no problem for me. I'll lose, but with long hair against the wind and an awesome body.
  12. Hi! A dwarf deck (basically anti-empire) won, but at least our empire demonstrated what we talk about: too many stuff for a single faction. Nerf empire, please! Important tournaments? Worlds was played with less than a half of the player we have in a big national tournament. What's the most important? The name or the numbers? About Sthaleck: look at the whole report, nor just the winner. Listen what the stahleck champion (a powerful player) had to say to our co-nationals empire decks. They won with an anti-meta deck: you can lose at a one-shot tournament, but not on a regular basis. Empire demonstrated to have almost any counter-measure and that's not ok. Every time a new "anti" deck showed up, one tournament later it was KO. That's the point with this "war" against Empire (and I repeat I'm not that happy since it's my favourite faction since day ZERO). Cheers DB saldo said: Stahlek or however you spell it, has come and gone. How did the Empire do?
  13. I've always considered myself "in the middle". For some reasons you know from private conversations, I wasn't able to play that much and I still have some troubles. The "american" style of play is a lot "thematic" and deep from a flavour point of view, pretty original, but sometimes not concrete. The "european" style of play is more boring and far from the setting, but more concrete. That's a general rule even in board-games. Now: i like both stuff. One-Two years ago, Orc Skaven, some Verena-Dwarf and RBT decks were strong (some months after). I liked EMPIRE since day one (even before, by previews). I was thrilled by elves, though. I used to play Orc-Control when noone did (no reanimation, it wasn't possible at that time), did pretty good, but I played it mostly because it was mine. I had a pretty strong empire deck: never played at a tournament. NEVER. Now I'm testing HIGH elves, a "new" empire (hopefully without Rodrik some day soon) and Dark Elves. I like the theme and the strategies and I'm "happy" to lose if I did something by myself or at least following my "tastes". I really like "metagame-breakers" like your Dwarves or the like. So: I'm tired of Empire and I even started to ask for a "soft ban" for VTHC at that time, and now I'm doing the same encouraging our players to play other stuff...BUt here's the catch: there's a competitive-organized play, there's a league, there are regionals. And TOP players enjoy the game when they win (i'm a bit competitive too, but not in the "usual" meaning). I do like competition, if it's balanced and if even a "middle-tier" deck can say it's thing. I'm still convinced Empire is the top deck and so are our players: it wins regularly against any deck, and has its full chances even against your Dwarven deck with a bit of teching. So: when I speak, most of the time, I speak in the interests of the competitive side of the community, the once who fully understand the game and that plays just the BEST deck, not the one they like the most. I've used to play CoC LCG (I'm re-starting ahaha ) and I'm a decent Agot player: I was never a top player (won a couple of little tournaments and reached a bunch of placements, but never played more than 4-5 tournaments in a season), but everyone could swear that in every new tournament I would have played a NEW deck, maybe crazy, maybe not that useful, but funny. Next week I'll play a HE deck, probably. Not a single chance to get a single point...But it'll be fun. That's what I like, that's what I SEE IN THESE BOARDS and that's what I like of american's playstyle. But that's not the point of the conversation. The point is, with fine tuning and some playtesting, in T1 competitive play, this game has 1 serious decks and 2-3 conditional decks. That's it. DB jogo said: DB.Cooper said: No pros, nor psycho: just players who love the game and are tired to see a one-deck game (or two-decks game). And that is one point where I do not understand your doings. If you are tired of Empire, why do you not just play another deck? I had at least 3-4 italian guys comeing to me at the begin of a swiss round saying that they are tired of playing Empire vs Empire again and want to draw.
  14. Hi, i definitely noticed that we're on the same boat, believe me and I didn't meant to be offensive. Sorry. Anyway, even if there were 20 empires, 7 of them were our players, the same one who play empire and complain about it, the same guys that did the right thing (imho), with me and other hundreds of players, when asked FFG to ban VTHC. I do respect the winner, I do respect the average players, I do respect everyone: but from a competitive perspective, I've to focus on the opinions of the players who play everytime and almost everyday and get awesome results during key tournaments. A good player can hide in a loft in Alaska, I'll never now...But if that player's that good and doesnt' say anything, he or she can't help the game as much as we, active players, do. So: I trust your opinion and it's just the same as mine...And I'm pretty sure Verena itself is not the core problem...But it's still a problem. You HAVE to develop, I DON't. One less card to play means one more card you have to draw and if I undermine your draw-engine, you lose. That's a basic concept of the game. Then, Empire decks right now are most "turbo-rodrick resource control" decks. Play rodrik, replay it, play skinks, replay it, save your guy, play some other rodrik and so on...Than Frederich and the emperor come out and the game ends in 2 turns. That's how it goes. Verena is an added power in a powerful faction. You develop 1 per turn. Turn 2, I can go Verena + Long Winter and even destroy you 3 cards. Game over. Single cards aren't a problem. Even Rodrik wouldn't have been a problem without all the bouncing effects. But that's the point: I think each faction should relate on its basic synergis and its "inner" strategy (every single FFG faction has both, in any card game). Just to be precise: EMPIRE: tactical advantage with move effects; board advantage with damage redirection, power control and bouncing effects. Drawbacks should be clear: small units, lack of support removal. DWARVES: big capital difficult to burn out; reanimation effects and combos as a secondary way. Drawback is slow setup. HIGH ELVES: indirect damage/spell focus with a lot of control. ORCS: rush as the main way, control as a hidden soul. CHAOS: units control, direct damaging effects. DARK ELVES: hp/hand control; mill. If FFG focuses on THIS scheme, at the end of a cycle and with one more deluxe we'll have a balanced game...But they've to stop to give EVERYTHING to empire, re-fill Orcs with resounding rushing and damaging effects (when Caos is so strong) and printing useless units and tactics for Elves. The problem with empire itself, in the end, is the fact that THOSE boost aren't neutral, but imperial: no loyalty issues. You can easily start with 3 cards in play. Turn 2 you get 5 resources and draw 2. Play rodrick 2 times and it's game over. That's absurd. DB
  15. Shindulus said: I just see overplayed archetype that do result cause it's overplayed, and losing against an old archetype deck, against which he was losing the same way more than 1 year ago. Players are just too influenced by the "10 guys" that speak louder than the others on the web. Hi. The 10 guys are good players and playtesters. And aren't 10. There are lots of people who see what the truth is. Derricksburg and Rodrik is often played in other order decks. They're autoincludes as Warpstone Excavation or Contested.... Contested Village in the restricted list means nothing. That's not the problem of the game: is limited and has no effect, at 1 cost. Pretty balanced. A competitive Verena deck NEVER lost against Dwarves on a regular basis. When someone speak "louder" than others, maybe they CAN. We're discussing with the TOP 16-8 players of the biggest central tournament in the world and with other good players who played there and saw how things go nowadays. When you play tournaments over an entire year, playtest 3-4 times per week, build a deck and destroy almost any opponent, you HAVE the right to speak loud, if we're speaking about COMPETITIVE play. That's not being rude or something: if we talk about organized play, we talk about meta-game, the state of the playtesting and card design and the actual power of competitive decks. Empire ITSELF would be a normal faction (still strong, but normal) without the RIDICOLOUS boost and recursive support-control: you are empire, you control the table with bouncing-moving effects and get strategic advantage. That's the description of the previews. Ban Verena, Ban/restrict Rodrik, restrict derricksburg: they don't fit that description. That's destruction style and insane resources boost. If they want to control supports, they play burn it down or splash demolition. That's it: that's the point of hard deckbuilding. DB
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