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LastDesperado

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  1. J-Tech said: If the attacker does not defeat the defenders, they never actually enter the battle space. How/when do co-existence battles happen? Think of the combat example with the Fabricator General. The Chaos Space Marines killed the Imperial Army and because the Hero is no unit, so they can move into the area. But at the change of initiative it will trigger a co-existence battle.
  2. Veldrin said: But wouldn't that allow the Imperial player to "retreat/stop" the coexistence battle as the attacker and stay in the contested region? First, when the Imperial player is the attacker so the traitor is the defender. As the defender the Traitor can choose who will be the active player in the first combat iteration. The rules say that "During every combat iteration other than the first, the active player can retreat" so there have to be at least 2 or 3 rounds of combat iteration (Traitor first - Imperial retreat or Imperial first - Traitor second - Imperial retreat). So there must be a combat and probably some damage for both players units. If the Imperial Player retreats, his "origin areas (i.e., those that contain units that were engaged when the retreat was announced) are marked with routed activation markers". So yes, I think his units stay in the area but he has to put a routed activation marker there which I think is worst because your units there are blocked much longer than with a normal activation marker.
  3. Haynams said: Although I just took a curosy glance at this thread, I think I can solve the problem... The example you're talking about involved a thunderhawk in direct combat with the hero and his units, as opposed to a bombardment card. Combat's handled with combat cards and thunderhawks can participate in this type of combat... they're not just there for bombardments. Bombardment is handled with the bombardment deck and, as such, is a different mechanic. I think the rules (at least in this case) are consistent. Haynams said: Although I just took a curosy glance at this thread, I think I can solve the problem... The example you're talking about involved a thunderhawk in direct combat with the hero and his units, as opposed to a bombardment card. Combat's handled with combat cards and thunderhawks can participate in this type of combat... they're not just there for bombardments. Bombardment is handled with the bombardment deck and, as such, is a different mechanic. I think the rules (at least in this case) are consistent. Not as I understand it. The example clearly says that "In the fourth iteration, the Traitor player is active. He plays “Rain of Death,” draws a bombardment card, and refers to the “Thunderhawk” result: “2 Damage per Thunderhawk” (see “Thunderhawk Bombardments” on page 36). [...] The Traitor applies both points of damage to the Fabricator General, since no defending units remain, and the Fabricator General’s Hero damage marker is moved two points down the Hero damage track." Page 36 instead says that "Thunderhawk bombardments arise due to special effects on combat cards." as in the example above and "Thunderhawk bombardment damage never affects Heroes." So the traitor triggered a special effect as a bombardment. So the Fabricator General shouldn't get any damage from the bombardment. He should have gotten 1 regular damage (because the card causes 1 damage) which is reduced by 1 through the fortification. (only 1 not 2 because a flying unit participate in the fight). Am I right or do I not understand the bombardment rules?
  4. Routing page 31: If an attacking unit routs, it is removed from the ongoing battle and remains in its origin area, unless that area is already marked with one of the attacker’s routed activation markers, in which case the unit is eliminated. Retreat page 30: If the attacker retreats, he does not move any units from their origin areas. All of those origin areas (i.e., those that contain units that were engaged when the retreat was announced) are marked with routed activation markers as described for the defender, above. End of battle page 30: If battle ends and no defending units remain in the target area, the attacker may move all, some, or none of his surviving engaged units and Heroes into the target area. Otherwise, surviving engaged units and Heroes simply remain in their respective origin or target area. I don't think the target/origin region have to be seperated. So I think the units of the attacker stay in the region after retreat/routing (unless there is already a routed activation Marker in the area, then routing will destroy the unit!)
  5. Don't think that neither "Orbital Bombardment" nor "Thunderhawk Bombardment" will have an affect to heroes. I think the example is wrong. I've already read that in the old game it was the easiest way for the traitor to bomb the palace and kill the emperor. So I think without an actual "FAQ" that no bombardment damage will be inflicted to heros. This error makes me a little bit angry. The only 2 disadvantages I experienced about FFG are that they are making a poor job as far as their final lectoring of the stuff is concearned and the lack of proper storage for the pieces. Ok, the proper storage of the pieces, tokens and plastic figures is only a cost factor. And if FFG want's no change of that, ok I still want to play their games and buy my own boxes of plastic for the tokens. But it starts to annoy me to buy expensive games with print errors or obvious failures originated from laziness. Don't get me wrong mistakes can happen to everybody! But Horus Heresy is not the first game with complex rules they released and the gamers have shown an ability to find in every game a situation which is not covered properly by the rules. So the lectures should already know to look for those and check that the exaples in their rulebooks match the actual rules! So why doesn't the company make a "beta status?" Post the rules online and everybody has the opportunity to aks their questions and send them to the team. So they have enough data to clearify the rules and the gamers have already an impression from the game they are interested in!
  6. Hi, I'm new to the forum and I have already a question concerning the rules of HH. In the "Combat Iteration Example" from page 29 the "Thunderhawk" inflicts damage to the Hero "Fabricator General" BUT on page 36 under "Thunderhawk Bombardments" it is written that such a bombardment damage never affect Heroes. So I believe that the "Combat Iteration Example" is incorrect. Am I right or not? But I'm still eager to have the game because I love the HH Novels! ;-)
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