DavidTJ
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Posts posted by DavidTJ
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Since you havent had any answer at all yet, i'll wade in with an answer, I cant promise it will be any good as an answer though.
I think the best format to intice someone to play warhammer invasion over another card game like magic would be single set, which is where as the name aptly implies you only use 1 copy of each of the battle packs the expansions and core set.
This does restrict your cards, however it promotes a key feature that warhammer invasion should have over other card games, affordability.
The actual decks you use to intice people with depends on what they are like as a player, if they dont really care about deckbuilding or tactics id give them a rush deck, which most commonly is either orks, or a destruction race plus skaven, this allows for fast exciting play when you first start out, and is in general easier to play with than other decks.Since you have all the battle packs and expansions I would definately stop doing the deck building the way its laid out, and construct your own decks.
If you basically constructed their magic decks you may have to do the same with invasion decks.
The easiest thing to do would be to sort out units for each race. In most decks you want arround 25-30 units, I wouldnt want to go lower than 20 in a deck unless it was unitless. As for decksize id go for 50-60 cards. Aim to have 1/2 your deck as units, or 2/3rds in a rush deck. With destruction you have the added dilemma of where to put the skaven cards. What I did when I did when running an orc deck and another destruction deck simultaneously is to only give the orcs clan moulders elite, and give the rest of the skaven units to another destruction deck (in my case dar elfs). Orcs are already very good at rushing without needing skaven so this allows you to have an extra competitive deck. For the order neutral units, id pick the race you think has the worst units and add them to that deck. You can also add other races units in but id leave that unitil every race has their best 20-30.
There arent really any arbitrary limits on number of units but this is what ive found works best for me so far. Im sure there are other people who work wonders in single set with less than 20 units. The only arbritrary thing ive come across is every deck having the 9 support/tactics 3x warpstone chronicles, 3x innovation, 3x contested village, they are really that good currently.
Once youve sorted out the units you have the harder task of dealing with the supports and tactics. With regards to neutrals the current norms in single set seem to be to have between 9 and 15 neutral tactics/supports (total not 9-15 of each) so theres 3 options I can see. with some decks you may not even feel the need for neutrals which makes things much simpler.
1.you could sort out you neutrals into the best 30, and split them up into 2 lots of 15 or less or more depending on preference, 1 set for whichever deck player 1 chooses 1 set for whichever deck player 2 chooses, dumping any nuetrals that dont outdo what you have currently
2.Or you can try and sort out neutrals for every deck. Basically fully sort out every deck.
3. Lastly you could give the best 9 neutrals to either destruction or order, or 1 race building 41-51 card size decks to accommodate those 9. Then use either method 1 or 2 to sort out the cards for the other decks.
A good program you can use to help deckbuilding is deckbox.org/, you can add all the cards in your collection and then build decks
Heres my 2 best decks, I am aiming to be able to run 6 decks simultaneously eventually but this is really as far as ive gotten so far.
DE/Skaven deckbox.org/sets/6990
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It is my understanding that with the new modified turn rules, (the addition of beginning turn phase) if you have actions that occur at the beginning of the turn they now resolve in that phase, if you have multiple beginning of turn actions you get to choose which order they happen in.
This applies to both the cards you listed, I do not think their is a rule that says forced action occur before non-forced
So in short the answer is you decide what action occurs first.
The most important thing to note with actions that occur in the beginning turn phase, is that you are using your previous turns resources
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Savage X
This keyword allows a unit, when it is dealt 1 or more damage, to deal X damage to one target unit in any corresponding zone. It is important to note that the unit with the Savage keyword must survive the damage it was dealt in order for the Savage keyword to trigger.
This is on the information page of the march of the damned section, it is understandable to miss it, if you read through james hatas explanation on the keywords he invented on the other page.
Heres the link: www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_npm_sec.asp
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Coming from a casual 40k backrground there was a small warhammer invasion craze at our club, we now have arround 10 who play it on a regular basis, now warhammer invasion is uperb and all but currently it does lack proper multiplayer, very often I play with 2 of my freinds outside of the clubs usual times, so seing as there were 3 of us I wanted a game to suit, which is why after looking arround ffg for a bit I found a game of thrones, I read the first book, and on an impulse bought the game.
So
1. was it a wise move going for a game of thrones to fit our 3 player needs
2. how easy is it to pick up, from the brief look around the forums warhammer invasion seems the easiest lcgso will my freinds who havent heard anything about the game or book series be able to pick it up like they have for warhammer invasion.
3. How long would an average 3 player game last
4.what are the best 3 decks to start out with as a new player solely from the core set.
Thanks for taking the time to read through this thread, any further incites you may bring will be great.
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My assumption did just work on what the 15 army books were there are 5+ armies that were discontinued or dont have an army book, and it is likely for them to combine tomb kings and vampires as you suggest, because they have already combined 3 armies under 1 roof in the chaos deck.
My only problem when this comes out will be if i actually will play order again. Vampire counts are so much cooler imo
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1414
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_npm.asp?eidm=23
English version of the news article and english ffg site dedicated to march of the damned
I am very pleased there will be 165 cards in the set up from 110 in assault on ulthuan (though that did have to cover the cost of the boards and their designs)
If this comes in at same kind of price of assault on ulthuan I will be very pleased.
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Well overall there are 15 current warhammer army books it just depends how ffg want to catergarize things.
From the looks of it, beastmen, warriors of chaos and daemons of chaos all fall into the chaos category.
Weve had skaven, orcs and goblins, empire, high eves, dark elves,dwarfs, this expansion would also add lizardmen and vampire counts.
So were left with wood elves, bretonnia, ogre kingdoms, and tomb kings,
It seems a safe assumption they will seperate tomb kings and vampire counts and not just class them both as undead. So were looking at least another 3 large expansions in my opinion.
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slightly soon for my wallet
but very good news another bigger expansion is only a few months away. If we keep to the same schedule of 1 pack a month by september my collection should grow to around 860 cards. Nearly 3x as many cards as i intend to have in my 6 decks giving a lot of choice. -
Im a bit confused by your question, your actual post seems to differ from the question posed in the thread title.
If you ask wether theres any point buying anything else other than 1 core set to play with your freinds then I would say yes, deckbuilding and making a deck your own is a nice part of the warhammer process. Just dont feel you have to buy each set deckbox is a great spoiler site so you can see what you are getting in each pack, so if you are set with one race just buy the sets that appeal to you for that race. If you are short on cash then of course you will be able to find much enjoyment just with the core set, however I would advice switching decks every so often if you do, both to lessen any imbalances the core mnay have and to also keep the game fresh.
If you ask the question in your thread title then I would say no imo.Spending £260 instead of £81 just so you can get 3 of each cards just doesnt strike me as being worth it unless you are an extremely competitive player who is playing in regionals. Buying multiples of sets in your local meta can on occasion bring more harm than good, forcing other people to have to buy multiples just to compete.
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I do see where your coming from in a fluff sense (apart from orcs I cant see them deciding to leave a battle any time soon) but being able to remove cards without needeing cards like pillage grudgethrower demolition ect would just not work from a gameplay standpoint.
I havent seen it explicity in the rules to say you cant but as you said it isn't in the rules to say you can.
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Here are my first attempts at empire and dwarf decks having got all my battlepacks and the assault on ulthuan expansion, I find order decks far harder to build than destruction decks, so there will probably be much room for improvement
Dwarf Deck
Units (26)
3 Defender of the Hold
3 Mountain Legion
1 Dwarf Cannon Crew
3 Dwarf Miner
3 Hammerer of Karak Azul
2 Slayers of Karak Kadrin
1 Durgnar the Bold
2 Dwarf Ranger
3 Troll Slayers
3 Longbeards
2 Mountain BrigadeTactics (10)
1 Judgement of Verena
3 Blessing of Valaya
1 Burn it Down
1 Demolition!
2 Lure Them Out
1 Stand Your Ground
1 Master Rune of ValayaSupports (14)
3 Armoury
2 Grudge Thrower
1 Dwarf/Empire Alliance
3 Forge
1 Great Book of Grudges
3 Keystone Forge
1 Mountain BarracksEmpire Deck
Units (25)
2 The Greatswords
1 Johannes Broheim
1 Peasant Militia
3 Huntsmen
1 Bright Wizard Apprentice
2 Gold Wizard Acolyte
3 Pistoliers
3 Talabheim Detachment
1 Nuln Tinkerers
3 Reiksguard Knights
1 Thyrus Gorman
1 Gustav the Bear
3 Nordland HalberdiersTactics (10)
1 Franz's Decree
3 Innovation
1 Will of the Electors
2 Forced March
1 Sigmar's Intervention
1 Surprise Assault
1 Twin-Tailed CometSupports (15)
1 Abandoned Mine
3 Contested Stronghold
1 Temple of Shallya
3 Helblaster Volley Gun
2 Church of Sigmar
1 City Gates
3 Forgotten Cemetery
1 Shrine to TaalThe empire deck is development based and ive switch judgement to the dwarf deck for the surprise factor. With an empire board down you always expect judgement and so you set up for it thus nulify judgement when it arrives, this is especially so when you only have one judgement in a deck.
By not including judgement in the empire deck I free up a card slot and untill someone plays me regularly enough to know I dont have judgement they still usually start putting down developments thus slowing them down in some way or another.
On the other hand against a dwarf deck people so far havent bothered preparing for judgement of verena and so are caught out, its not part of a must use verna to win strategy but its a nice handy bonus when you do draw the card
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Id strongly advice getting contested village in your deck will solve any resource problems
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From what i have seen about the other spoilers I guess the problem is your spoiler was too early. WIth all the other battlepacks it seems the spoilers went up only when the first people got their packs, this may have been a day or so early due to early post, but it was generally around the release date.
Im not aware when Assualt on Ulthuan was leaked but I know that it was in my local store very early possibly weeks before the official release date.
Hopefully this gets resolved because from what I have seen you have been a freindly enthuastic and active member of the community
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The ork deck is pretty much all mine, but it is very bog standard, I used clamatius suggestions from the thread I posted in the wrong forum to improve it.
The de/skaven deck is strongly influenced from clamatius single set skaven/de however ive modified it a bit so that I can run both decks at the same time, I was originally planning on doing a spell/monk chaos deck, but my 1st couple of play throughs with dark elves convinced me they are more spell based.
Im saving innovation for my order decks, because they have had the short end of the stick by me giving orks both warpstone and contested village.
Both decks have had forced modifications since freinds have 1 of my clan rats and 1 of my choppas so when actually testeing the decks i have used armoury and scrap heap respectively to fill in untill I retrieve those 2 cards.
Ork rush
1 Mob Up
3 Veteran Sellswords
3 Warpstone Excavation
2 We'z Bigga!
2 Choppa
3 Contested Village
3 Crooked Teef Goblins
3 Favour of Mork
1 Rip Dere 'Eads Off!
3 Spider Riders
1 Basha's Bloodaxe
1 Clan Moulder's Elite
2 Followers of Mork
3 Lobber Crew
1 Night Goblins
1 Pillage
1 Rock Lobber
3 Snotling Pump Wagon
3 Squig Herders
1 Grimgor's Camp
1 Totem of Gork
1 Waaagh!
2 Wyvern Rider
2 Boar Boyz
1 Troll Vomit
1 Ironclaw's Horde
1 Ugrok BeardburnaDe/Skaven
1 Hate
3 Walking Sacrifice
3 Call the Blood
2 Chillwind
1 Chittering Horde
1 Dark Visions
3 We Need Your Blood
1 Your Will Is Mine
3 Ancient Waystone
3 Clan Rats
1 Fellblade
3 Gutter Runners
2 Har Ganeth
1 Orc/Dark Elf Alliance
1 Plague Monk
1 Sack Tor Aendris
3 Scout Camp
3 Shades
1 Vile Sorceress
3 Cold One Chariot
1 Greyseer Thanquol
2 Invoke Khaine's Wrath
1 Mortella
1 Poison Wind Globadiers
1 Take Captive!
1 Altar of Khaine
1 Cold One Riders
1 Deathmaster Sniktch
1 Rat Ogres -
1. The wording seems ok to me but I could easily be wrong
If the card that left play was in your battlefield, the development goes into your battlefield
If the card that left play was in your kingdom, the development goes into your kingdom
If the card that left play was in your quest zone, the development goes into your quest zone
2. from my understanding, you cannot play a tactic then use reclaim the hold to then put it down as a development
Reclaim the hold appears to have 2 criteria before you can develop a card
Firstly, you have to control the card that leaves play, I guess you can class tactics you play as cards you control
Secondly, the card has to of left play from a zone you control, nowhere have I seen anywhere that a tactic enters a zone when played.
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I think what I like most about single set is not to be overly reliant on one combo, you have to react more to what cards you draw because often those key cards are now only 1x, it also opens up the game for more people, Theres only a couple of people Ive played with that have bought more than 1x any set, but pratically all of us have every battlepack and the exapansion.
I do hope that new battlepacks solve the skaven issue as I would hate for skaven to have to be banned for too much longer, especially since single set basically removes order unitless bolt thrower that people seemed to be doing ok with.
In regards to deathmaster sniktch, so far ive found theres a nice balance in the fact theres less skaven for him to utilise and theres a lesser chance of pulling him out of your deck, but I could have been seeing unlucky draws.
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I am jumping on the band wagon of whats come to be known as single set warhammer invasion. I am very dedicated to Warhammer Invasion but I only want/can afford 1x everything rather than 3x everything. This thread will be dedicated to all the decks i come
Ive noticed whenever I make decks I struggle to fit everything in, which makes single set a much better fit for me. I love diversity which single set gives, and love to chop and change which deck i use very regularly with this in mind I intend to go for the very unusual choice of trying to make decks i can run simultaneously. This means I will step away from the norm of having 9 cards set in stone in every deck (3x innovation, 3x warpstone evacuation, 3x contested village), this will make deck building very challenging in trying to get decks balanced against each other but i think in the long run it will be achievable.
To start, id like to begin with what i find to be the easiest deck for me to conceieve and play, just because ive gotten used to what do do resource wise, the Orcs, im going for the standard rush model.so any ways to improve on this deck or other comments, please chime in
Units 30
3x spider riders
3x squig herders
3x crooked teeth goblin
3x lobber crew
3x veteran sellswords
3x snotling pump wagon
2x iron boyz
2x followers of mork
2x boar boyz
2x wyvern riders
1x night goblins
1x ironclaw's horde
1x ugrok beardburna
1x clan moulder's elite
I love to keep unit numbers very high in aggro decks, especially the orcs, with regards to skaven I feel theres a full on or dip policy, you either pack every skaven you can into your deck or cherry pick the best 1 or 2. They combo too well with each other to not pack as many as possible, with that in mind i just cherrypicked the best skaven rush card and left the rest to use with either chaos or dark elves
The weakest link amongst the units in my mind are the iron boyz and Ironclaw's horde. the former has little power, and the latter has a very tricky points cost coupled with relatively low health
Support 12
3x warpstone evacuation
3x contested village
2x Choppa
1x totem of gork
1x rock lobba
1x basha's bloodaxe
1x grimgor's camp
Very standard support setup, not really too many other options to consider, Grimgor's spike and thick skinned are useless for this particular deck, I find war paint far to situation especially with the ammount of low health units im running with, banna of da red sunz is also very situational. scrap heap looks good but i decided to forgo it currently, as it doesnt out and out increase your damage
Tactics 8
3x favour of mork
2x we'z bigga!
1x pillage
1x waaagh!
1x troll vomit
Tactics are where the tough choices happened, imo there are like 20 decent tactics to choose from, I didn't choose innovation because i feel 1 of my order decks could benefit far more than my orc deck using it. other strong choices i considered were mob up, foot of gork, rip dere 'eads off!, wolf rider assault.
So its over to you, feel free to jump in with any comments, ideas, or criticisms.
My other deck ideas are very much planning stage atm, the only other deck ive got anywhere near fully formed is a fairly comical all unit deck utilising chaos and skaven
Vague ideas for other decks have been an attachment dwarf deck, a development empire deck, and a corruption chaos deck, Ive only recently got the expansion so i havent really gotten a grasp of where im heading with de/he
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For a new player or any player Id read through the rulebook.
Print out the official faq (it makes key changes to the basic rules set, especially the turn rules)
Print out the rules summary, currently on the 2nd page of the rules questions sub board
Read through all three, you should definately be able to memerise the things in the rulebook by playing a few games added to the changes to the rules changes from the faq.
Id keep on hand both the rules summary and faq, because if you're like me with memory you wont be able to remember every change to card text or clarification of the card text before you change from new player to not so new player.
But the most important thing is to just get playing, and once you get more cards than just the core set fiddling around with your decks.
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you and your opponent can have a unit in the same zone,the restriction is per player, so you may not have 2 heroes in the same zone, but your opponent and yourself could each have a hero inthe quest zone.
With this in mind there very limited use of ripping one of your own developments in the quest zone or kingdom. (though you could conceivably do it in your beggining turn phase to draw more cards or get more resources)
You do raise an interesting question over wether you can rip a hero in a zone that you already have a hero in, unfortunately I do not know the answer, it gets even more confusing with the in play ruling for cards like grimgor.
I guess it could be argued either way.
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I think banning cards will just lead to bad things down the line.
If you ban the top 5 ork rush cards (not including skaven) it would remove rush orks. Unless they then used ork/skaven, in which case they'd be beaten by de/skaven and chaos/skaven. So youd then remove skaven. At which point orks wouldnt compete with other 5 decks
Its much better to be on equal terms with opponents. so people with 3x everything compete with others with 3x etherything and people with 1x etherything compete with others with 1x everything. Unless of course you dont actually have any problems atm.
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From what I understand, corrupted units power icons still do count towards resources/card drawing, they just cant attack or defend.
They are also allowed to use action and forced abilities
From rules summary thread (on this page)
Corruption
Q: If my unit is corrupted, can I still use its abilities? And does it contribute power if it is in quest zone or kingdom zone?
A: Yes and Yes. A corrupted unit may not be chosen as an attacker or defender, but is otherwise unnafected
rulebook pg 17
(p.s how do you copy and paste on these forums)
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The text on the dragonmage card says:
Whenever the unit is assigned damage cancel all but one of that damage.
This effectively means normally it will take 3 attacks at different times to kill the dragonmage, usually this will mean 3 of your battlefield phases, however it could also include things like dame from dwarf rangers.
Very effective ways to kill it would be,
-hp effect, this isn't affected by his ability because it isnt damage in the traditional sense
Mob up ignores damage cancelattion effects such as that on the card
Deathmaster Sniktch ability would ignore ability
Bloodthirster also ignores damage cancellation
Counterstrike damage ignores cancellation.
Most importantly, the card effect does not say/infer/mean cancels all damage when the dragonmage is on 1hp, or cannot do more than 1 damage ever.
If you have only standard attacks to kill the dragonmage just assign 1 damage to it every battlefield phase unless your forced to assign more as there are no other valid targets
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Id like to start a thread about which cards you'd never use there just that bad. Feel free to agree with or disagree with anyone's choice.
Why start this thread? Well it is actually very useful as a new player to know what cards to stay clear, it is I'm my opinion better to know the handful of cards that arent worth your time than just sticking with some netlist deck because your unsure which cards are bad.
I also think it could provide some fun.
Anyway I'll start.
Beasts of Chaos
Unit
Chaos (surprisingly)
4 cost, 3 loyalty.
3 power
1 health
Battlefield only
On the face of it not too bad, 3 power for 4 cost, seems like an upgrade to savage marauder, but savage marauder have a unique place as a massive boost to kingdom or quest turn 1, wheras this is battlefield only. Before dark elves hit the seem maybe this would get some use, but even the you still have to deal with counterstrike damage. 3 loyalty on this unit is just painful. This card just isnt competitive with other chaos cards which have less limitations on placement, plus for 1 more cost get a fair number of hitpoints, or cards like bloodsworn who get a very nice special ability and 2 health in trade for 1 power. there is just a large gap between 4 cost and 3 cost in this game, I ran a 50+ chaos/skaven deck using just units and 1 copy of core set and 1x each battlepack apart from warpstone chronicles (which is in mail), and they still failed to make the deck.
Anyway onto your top terrible picks or as some people may refer to them, pretty coasters for your drinks
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I just did a bit of minor researching into how the probabilities come about with cards, and basically found out I don't have a clue how to work them out, luckily some mathematicians did work it out and there is a function in excel to do it.
Its called Hypogeometric distribution, which is basically is a posh term for talking about probabilities if you are removing things, such as cards.
The Excel formula is =hypgeomdist(0,7,3,50)
Now if your like me you may not have a clue at what any of the numbers mean.
The first number 0, is how many of the, cards in this case, you will have in your hand after drawing
The second number 7, is how many you are drawing
The third number 3, is the number of copies of the card you have in your deck
the fourth number, is the size of your deck.
So for instance the formula above will give the probability of not getting a lobber crew in your opening hand if you have 3 copies of it in a 50 card ork deck.
The probability of having 1 or more lobber crews in your opening hand is of course 100%-the % of not having it.
I personally have just set up the hypogeomdist formula in the excel cell a1, in a2 i've set up another basic formula =1-a1 which gives the percentage of actually getting the card in your hand rather than the percentage of not having it
To make sure this works properly you have to format the cells to percentages
Anyway I hope at least some of this made sense, and is useful to some of you. It cleared up things for me at least
What is first?
in Warhammer Invasion Rules Questions
Posted
Id say once again that since the effect seems to be happening because of the same event, so it would be simultaneous the player in question would choose the order.
However if you did want to apply a strict order to the dwarf example. the most logical order would be the ranger effect 1st, then the great book of grudges effect.
The card leaves play (causing the dwarf rangers effect) and it could be concieved theres is a tiny time from once it leaves play to once its gone onto the discard pile (activating the great book of judges effect)