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ImhotepMagi

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Everything posted by ImhotepMagi

  1. Just from registered decks, it looks like approximately 1 in every 42 decks has Horsemen in them.
  2. ImhotepMagi

    The app?

    I found it on Google Play by typing out Keyforge Master Vault. Any one or two of those words together wouldn't search it.
  3. I pulled a Four Horseman myself but I think I'm going to hold onto it. ?
  4. Since a lot of the arguments are getting extreme and in some cases personal, I'm going to bow out with this final thought: You can have a gated community and you're pretty safe from unpleasantness. You might occasionally let someone in but that person will never live there unless they meet the standards of the community. Your community may grow slowly but you'll find yourself more often talking to the same old people with the same ideas over and over again. You can go out and encourage your city friends to join your gated community but for whatever reason, they may never be able to join you there. Or you can live in the city. Tons of new people, ideas, foods constantly entering and growing the population. Sure, sometimes bad things happen but you're never short of someone to interact with and have way more resources at your fingertips. People learn new things and try things they've never tried before. Some people don't but they always have the option. Everyone can move there because there are no standards keeping them out. So for everyone, I hope you enjoy the games you want to play the way you want to play them. Just play kind. They're just toy soldiers after all.
  5. "Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb!" Something a little fun from @Skullforge
  6. @TauntaunScout you keep mentioning how people treat you crazy for painting. I work in a game store with a vibrant miniatures community. We don't require any painting. We have people who paint and don't paint. Somehow people who play unpainted seem to find their way to paint without anyone insisting on doing it. It sounds like your community is very different. I have never encountered anti-painting sentiment. Wanting fewer people who meet your standards is plain bad for a community. The hobby reaches far more people when you let people do their own thing. A person may never paint but their opponent may play a game against them, decide that game was ugly and get painting themselves. I've watched popular games die in our store because only a couple people played. It becomes unsustainable if you don't grow and sometimes that means welcoming people who aren't like you. And costly, time-consuming and unnecessary aren't myths. Painting costs money and time especially when applied across an entire army's worth of miniatures. It might not be a lot of cost, but a person has a right to choose how they spend their money, no matter how little. It is unnecessary because miniatures wargames can still be played without paint. You can watch the same battle play out in grey as in color, it just won't be as visually pleasing. Some people just don't need the same level of immersion as you do. I paint. I have a standard I like and it takes me a while to achieve. So unpainted miniatures hit the table. I certainly am not going to ruin perfectly good, expensive miniatures with a bad, minimal paint job I would be ashamed of to suit your needs. I'm not going to ask another person to do the same. But if they want that bad paint job or even no paint, I'm ok with that. Because without players, the painting part dies completely. If there were no game to drive sales of miniatures, very few people would collect them just to paint and make dioramas. Those people would very rarely meet just to show off their work. So the game has to come first or the painting never comes instead of it coming slowly.
  7. Half of the experience in your opinion. I respect your opinion and I don't begrudge you the way you want to play. I'm just saying more ways to have fun with more people is better for me, and I think the hobby is better for having a freer attitude. I like all sorts of games, abstract, thematic, cards, board, miniatures, etc. So maybe I'm more liberal in my tastes. I also enjoy a good story unfolding on the tabletop, I've just never seen the need for it to be in full color every time. Like I said, I prefer a good movie in black and white to a boring one in color. And I have plenty of friends I disagree with, so who knows.
  8. I missed this earlier but I want to say I specifically disagree with this. When you refuse to play someone because they haven't done something time-consuming, costly and unnecessary to actual gameplay just to improve your own experience, I believe you are being rude. It sounds snobbish and smacks of gatekeeping. It creates an extra barrier to entry when the hobby has enough already. You can politely decline without reason or make an excuse but to tell a person they are not worth your time because of an arbitrary standard you have dictated is, in my opinion, rude. Just play the game and then beg off for a while. One game out of 10 won't kill you. And who knows, you might make a friend and they might eventually be inspired to *gasp* paint their own minis! :O
  9. @Tubb I apologize. I spoke in haste and without clarification. I will accept your definition of a miniatures wargame. I would argue that board games are generally using miniatures as pawns, and that X-Wing could be played entirely with just the bases and no miniatures at all, making it a free-form chit-based game. But accepting your definition of miniatures wargame, so what? A coat of paint improves the experience yes, but you would play the exact same way without the paint. You're not playing a different game, you are playing a game with a (in your eyes) diminished experience. Your steak is cooked well done instead of medium rare, but it is by no means raw or burnt. It's not pretty but a full belly is better than an empty one.
  10. You can choose not to play them. Nobody has to play anybody. How you approach it is what makes it rude. If you politely decline without reason, then that is ok, though I think you are missing out on the chance to make a human connection. You might meet a new best friend. If you are flat out telling them they have to paint their models to play you, I do see that as rude because you are telling a person they are not worth your time. You might infer that a person who shows up with an unpainted army is telling you that your efforts are wasted, but I would argue that person is asking you for a game because they value spending time with you. A video game is not a miniatures game. You could argue that a person who wants to play games only with painted miniatures should only play HeroClix. Or if you want games with pretty components then there are any number of lavish board games out there. The argument cuts both ways. A game that uses miniatures is still a miniatures game, even if they are different colors.
  11. @Tubb I've discussed a lot of your points upthread but I do want to say that I don't see playing with half assembled models the same as unpainted. Game-wise, the models function exactly the same regardless of their color. Since LOS is drawn to ALL the models in a unit by the leader, just a gun on a base would sometimes be out of LOS when a whole model is not, determining whether I could shoot a model or what models can be removed by damage. You can model your guy kneeling or lying down if you wish. That would still have mass and a physical presence on the field. Also I could play board games or card games but those would not give me the same experience as a miniatures game, paint or no. As a person who plays a great many different games, each one provides a different experience. I absolutely agree that people SHOULD paint their armies and the game is more fun with it. I don't think anyone is arguing that painting is bad. I encourage everyone to do it if it appeals to them. I just think people should sill be able to play the game in peace if they choose not to.
  12. @TauntaunScout You are not wrong about a lot of your points...for yourself. The disconnect, think, is that I view it as a game with an optional painting aspect and you view it as all one component unable to be separated. If it were inseparable, the game would REQUIRE painting in the rulebook. Instead, the social contract and one's level of commitment are the only thing that informs the painting level. The fact is, that social contract is created by the community and the views among the community have changed over the years. It is now more or less accepted that painting is encouraged, but not required. Times change. More people are included this way and that's good. If you look at it from my point of view, the game is the race. You drive the car around the track and try to be fastest. My car is unpainted, yours is painted and looks great. We both get to race. You're disappointed the race wasn't as pretty but we both got to race and at least you could enjoy the competition. If we look at it from your point of view, the same race requires all cars be painted. You get to race against other pretty cars. I get to go home, even though I brought a car perfectly capable of racing. Your theater analogy is a good one, except the script doesn't specify I need a costume. Acting isn't a competition. You are absolutely right that the game is MORE fun with painted armies and I, too, encourage people to do it because it's fun. But I'm not going to be disappointed because I'm there to get different things out of it. I'll take a good movie in black and white over a bad movie in color any day. We are probably never going to agree on this because I view the hobby as having distinct parts that can be enjoyed in different amounts and you view the hobby as being committed to everything in it. I believe my view is more realistically achievable and better for the hobby. We are unlikely to ever agree on this, so I think we should agree to disagree. I hope you get all the painted games you want. I hope you enjoy the unpainted ones you don't just the same.
  13. I also do this. Each of my stormtroopers has a number of dots on the underneath of the base to show which squad he belongs to.
  14. @TauntaunScout That argument is facetious and a false equivalence. Inviting a person to play a game and then going out of my way to not play the game as intended is not the same as engaging your opponent in the exact same activity but a different color. An unpainted player is not wasting your time anymore than someone who shows up to a race with a different color car.
  15. I've been in the hobby for 25 years. I've also seen lots of games come and go. GW games currently rely completely on TLOS and have for at least the last decade. Before that, there have been variations of "don't shoot him in the gun or banner" but body parts were always fair game. These days, it abstracts that the gun might be an arm as people aren't always in the exact same position. I don't agree with banners but them's the rules. I feel at this point we are mostly arguing technicalities. If you'd like you can PM me but I think it best we should leave the discussion out of the thread.
  16. Well for Legion, the model matters for LOS. There is a large chunk of the market share of miniatures games (i.e. the most popular or visible) that uses true line of sight in some way. For those games, the shape of them matters and what parts of them stick out also matter. "Used to be" no longer applies. The "hobby writ at large" is a terrible blanket statement, since the hobby is dominated by a few games that certainly don't rely on just the base. There are a lot of games in which that is true and in those enclaves there is truth. Games that want a volume space will tell you what area it fills while games that use TLOS will rely on the miniature. In the former, go nuts, use whatever the rules will allow. In the former, use miniatures. We use minis because they are cooler than cardboard. How much cooler you want to make them is up to the individual. And there are supposed to be new Battletech boxed sets coming out from Catalyst Game Labs soon, so I would keep an eye out on their website, terrible as it is.
  17. Yes they will. See I can be contradictory too. More seriously, you are right if that's the attitude you have about it. And it is kind of you to offer to give them paint, if your aim is altruism. It sounds like you carry it around simply to have a "gotcha" in the event someone tells you they can't afford it. Sometimes, people will make up an excuse just to get someone to leave them alone. Or the offer may make them uncomfortable. Or they feel it comes with some sort of strings attached. The offer may feel like charity they are ashamed to accept. If no one has ever taken free stuff from you, that may be a sign.
  18. @TauntaunScout it seems like then your problem is with those particular players and not unpainted armies. Yes, unpainted armies can facilitate WAAC players but to paint all unpainted players with the same brush (pun slightly intended) you are being narrow-minded and cynical. Yes, it is always MORE fun to see painted armies on the tabletop clashing. It is by no means the only source of fun. I find a lot of the fun determined by the attitude that each player brings to the game. Some of my most fun games have been against unpainted armies because both people came in with a fun attitude. Some of my worst games have been against painted armies because that person came into it sour or only focused on crushing me. Your experiences obviously inform your opinion and they sound awful, but your experiences are by no means the only ones out there. It behooves all of us to be welcoming, encouraging (not pushy) and supportive. Be the example you want to see and people will follow your lead, without having to cajole or shame them.
  19. I disagree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to enact it on your own minis, lol.
  20. This. Painting is not playing. Everyone should feel comfortable to play their own army the way they want. If you view your opponent as insulting you if they don't bring an army in a color other than grey, it feels like that is more your problem than theirs.
  21. What I'm hearing here is that the player pool increased with a larger set of opinions on how to play these games. Decades ago, the hobby was pretty niche and attracted a certain small crowd. Decades is a long time to learn to adapt. If you are approaching it from the idea that those who don't paint are bad faith actors, then possibly that attitude created push back from non-painters and fueled that anti-painting sentiment. In any group, you have jerk players and that number increases as the population expands. The amount of paint on their minis rarely changes that. They are just jerks about different things.
  22. If you are playing painted to enhance your opponents' experience, that is laudable. If you are requiring others to play painted to improve your own experience, that is selfish. A lot of these "respect your opponents' experience" arguments don't seem to take into account that an unpainted player is still an opponent who is seeking an experience, just a different one.
  23. Battletech is a hex-and-counter game with optional miniatures. The base set still comes with standees as well as miniatures. The standees don't indicate height, the rules apply a standard height to each hex of terrain or unit and LOS is abstracted. The separate miniatures rules are slightly different, but at that point you can no longer use chits or standees.
  24. A person isn't lazy or worthy of insult if they don't paint their minis. They are simply enjoying the hobby the way they want to enjoy it. Painting simply isn't the be-all, end-all of the hobby. It's one aspect that makes it more aesthetically pleasing. Becoming the arbiter of how other people should enjoy their things is plainly rude. Expecting others to put time and effort into something they don't want to do is selfish. Giving those people people a hard time because of it is rude AND immature. Refusing games with people because they don't have armies painted hurts the hobby and reduces our player pool. It is better to hold yourself to your own standards and be an example to follow than to go around telling everyone they are unworthy of your time if they can't or won't devote the same amount of time and effort to playing with toys as you do.
  25. My general opinion is that painted models enhance the experience, but they are by no means a requirement. I encourage people who wish to paint their models, and I will offer advice if asked. I have certain standards I hold myself to but I don't require them of others. I recognize that this hobby not only has different layers to it but that not all people are or can be committed to it at every level. I'm certainly not. I don't spend every waking moment cranking out painted minis. I don't want to lower my paint standard just for there to be blobs of color on the table. I'm not always inspired to paint and will instead engage in the many other hobbies I have instead. I'm not going to force it because it's a hobby, not a chore. I'm happier seeing other people enjoy the hobby they want to enjoy than seeing people driven out or not attempting the hobby because they think painting is required. I work in an FLGS and one of the first things I hear when people express interest in miniatures games is "but I'd have to paint it all"! No you don't! Just play! If you enjoy it, play more! Try painting! If you like it, great! If not, don't! Painting is good, being a part of a community engaged in the discussion and comraderie provided is even better. Some people only want to paint. Some people only want to play. There is a whole spectrum in between. And all of that is ok. They're only toy soldiers after all. Let's all just play together.
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