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Unusualsuspect

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  1. Another Tau player here... Concerning the Riptide's stats, I would look towards the Dreadknight for inspiration - stat-wise, they are almost identical, with the Riptide slower in close combat (probably lower agility, i would think) but able to take a bit more punishment (1 more wound). As a very basic concept, it would look something like this for the base suit: RIPTIDE BATTLESUIT The Riptide Battlesuit increases the pilot's Size to Enormous. Maybe one step higher? The Riptide's pilot does not use his own Strength, Toughness, Agility, or Wounds while in the Riptide. Instead, he uses the Riptide's Strength of 70, Toughness of 75, and Agility of 30. The Riptide has Unnatural Strength (x3), Unnatural Toughness (x3) and 120 Wounds. If the Riptide is reduced to 0 wounds it is destroyed. The pilot is also reduced to 0 wounds and he must burn a Fate point to survive. Probably should have an armour of 15 to match the Dreadknight. R'varna might register 16, but then again, might not... instead, he'd have Unnatural Toughness (x4), which does a fine job of making him tough as nails. The Riptide incorporates a powerful shield generator with a Protection Rating of 35. Up to you if you make it Best Quality like the Dreadknight's. The Riptide comes equipped with Jump Jets, allowing it to use the normal jump jet troops movement profile. As for the nova generator, I kinda like the toughness test, especially if using the suit's toughness. Something like a Difficult (-10) Toughness test would put it at roughly a 2/3 chance of success, mirroring the suit in the tabletop game. Inflicting wounds on a failure only also matches the tabletop, and with Tau experimental weaponry in general - potent, but sometimes it'll explode on you. The Ion Accelerator basically has 3 modes. I'd steal the Ion Cannon's rules and give it slightly higher pen. I'd find the rules for Battle Cannons (there has to be stats somewhere for a Leman Russ with a Battle Cannon) and give it slightly higher pen. For the Nova profile, Lascannon with Blast 8ish. Hmm. Heavy Burst Cannon... Storm for sure, Heavy 15 sounds good enough, with Assault Cannon stats to start. Give it Tearing and perhaps Twin-Linked for the noval profile. And yeah, that's an opponent that just might help a space marine know fear.
  2. The same reason a 20 something year old college kid might consider getting Kanji or other asian calligraphy, even if completely lacking knowledge of the character's meaning. Because it is supposed to look cool among your peers ("Awesome tat! What does it mean?" "Courage! And Dragon! And according to some giggling asian guy, Whale ******." "OMG SO COOL.") and hopefully intimidate or impress (both if you're lucky) your more literate enemies or rivals. That said, it is perfectly reasonable for most people growing up on a death world to put book learnin' as, well... secondary. Catachan's homeworld seems like it would fit that bill. That isn't going to stop anyone dedicated enough from learning, but given a lack of societal need for it... why would most bother? Training time is thrones, and even the Emperor's pockets aren't limitless. Are you going to suggest to the Catachans that they cut back on survival or weapons training to make sure they can all read The Adventures of Pooh Bear in between bouts of battle?
  3. Taking the rules literally, the Daemonhost would suffer wounds only on 9s, and have to take Psychic Phenomenon rolls on 8s and 10s. Taken with just the slightest minutia of sense, a Daemonhost would simply suffer a wound on any 8, 9, or 10.
  4. Just to be clear (though it seems everyone already knows this), even an extra reaction, like that from Iron Arm or Wall of Steel or Step Aside, cannot be applied against a single incoming attack. Only a single reaction is allowed for any given attack, no matter how many extra reactions you have or how they are obtained.
  5. First, welcome to the forums and the game! Always good to see new blood. Frankly, I think you're seriously underestimating the badassitude of a full-grown, 10000+ year old, genetically "perfect" humanoid that stands a good 9 feet tall. Yes, there are lots of things out there that are probably roughly as scary… but the sheer concentration of force (alongside an inhuman speed and skills matched only by gods and avatars of conflict) means a Primarch will tear through **** near any opponent up to and even beyond a Greater Daemon in single combat. Consider the hundreds, possibly thousands, of battles that just about every single Primarch survived pre-Heresy. They were facing foes with technology that equalled or exceeded that of the Imperium of Man's golden age. They were facing Greater Daemons, including Bloodthirsters, in single combat… and winning. At least one beat to death an Avatar of Khaine with his gauntleted hands. …And you think something as relatively mundane as a handful of Inquisitorial agents, even veterans, are going to be able to successfully take a Primarch out on their own? I'd consider a veteran Deathwatch Kill Team, armed with every possible relic, to be practically going on a suicide mission if their target were a Primarch. They're just THAT badass. OK, now that that is out of the way, to your other questions. How would the Imperium react to a returning Primarch? I'd imagine the Lords of Terra would be not be thrilled to have their works judged by a Son of the Emperor, but they've weathered that before, and almost all the Primarchs would consider it hubris at best (and akin to the traitorous Horus at worst) to try to take the mantle of control over the vast Imperium of Man. There would certainly be some High Lords of Terra that might violently object to the return of a Primarch and the change to the status quo that might affect. I wouldn't be surprised if a small faction of the High Lords, if they learned of the Primarch before it became any better known than a high-level (i.e. Grey Knight-esque) secret, tried to "remove" the Primarch from the equation. I'd think capture would be preferred, but again, given the target, they might just have to kill him (it's the only way to be sure…), especially given there would be no guarantee that a returned Primarch would still remain loyalist. Most, if not all, of the MIA loyalist primarchs have been wandering the Eye for thousands of years. if there's one thing the Heresy showed the Imperium, it's that Primarchs are not beyond corruption. I would imagine, despite the bad blood that might occur, that the Adeptus Custodes would require the Primarch to be unarmed, unarmored, and scanned genetically, physically, and psychically for any threat to the Emperor's mortal frame… if they allowed him at all. As far as rival Space Marine chapters go, they are all ultimately loyalists… and Primarchs are, by each and every description of them in the Heresy novels (again, and again, and again, and… well, you get the idea), INCREDIBLY charming and awe-inspiring in presence. The Space Wolves would still be respectful of Lion el'Johnson, even if it was a grudging respect. Visa versa for the Dark Angels and Leman Russ. Above all else, they are PRIMARCHS, nothing less than the genetic and spiritual successors of the Emperor/Allfather himself. Only corruption and treason, like that of the Daemon Prince Primarchs, would engender any sort of violent response, in my opinion. Concerning the issue of Artifacts, while many of the items Primarchs and the Emperor Himself utilized were of almost incomparable manufacture, some will have been lost, some destroyed, some stored by the First Founding chapter awaiting the Primarch's return, and some used by those same Chapters by their most legendary members. Generally speaking, I'd guess most of those artifacts would surpass the power (and thus stats) of the most potent of relics found in the Deathwatch RPG books… but not by a particularly significant margin. Increasing effectiveness of the tools of war is going to be exponentially more costly and difficult, while the boost to effectiveness will almost certainly plateau. I find the concept of Player Character weapons/armor/tools becoming legendary and of relic quality to be absolutely awesome if done correctly, so I'd encourage you as a DM to find ways to make the transition from "weapon of the line" to "weapon of a legend" to be suitably epic. Rare Materials seem like a good way to start. If the DM were to work in, say, minor damage to the weapon/armor/tool, that could be a great excuse to reward the eventual success with an upgrade in the form of a repair. Fate Points and XP both seem appropriate costs. I might even require as part of the cost the renown gained in the process of making the weapon, rather than the Space Marine wielding it, the legend. In terms of designing the nature of the changes, I doubt there will be anything but the roughest of guides. Your best bet would be to check out other relics and balance the newly-Legendary weapon/armor/tool against previous examples. When in doubt, I'd suggest being conservative - some of the higher power relics have their Legendary nature and quality expanded upon over dozens of Space Marine lifetimes. Baby steps, neh? Concerning the Primarch stats… well, purely my opinion, but I'd consider Primarchs to be inhuman in just about every possible category (Minimum of Unnatural Characteristic (x2) in every stat) with a minimum of Unnatural Strength and Unnatural Toughness at x3. Particular Primarchs will undoubtedly have particular strengths, which would probably be represented by higher base stats rather than higher unnatural characteristics. Any Primarch that has survived to the 41st millenium will probably have a Weapon Skill rivaling a Bloodthirster and be able to match shots with a Vindicare, perhaps higher if that Primarch focuses on that particular type of combat. Regardless of age or experience, just about any Primarch will have a genius level of Intelligence (except perhaps Russ, and he'd be at least above-average, alongside an unmatched level of cunning that would be more of an instinctual intelligence anyway) and amazingly high fellowship. Their ability to react would probably rival all but the most capable of Eldar. Like Space Marines, they would probably be "Hulking" sized, aside from the naturally giant Primarchs (Can't think of any loyalists, but both Magnus the Red and Angron were probably a step up from Hulking, even before becoming Daemon Princes). They, like their lesser Space Marine "progeny", would not grant the additional bonus to attack from size (again, aside from the naturally giant Primarchs, who would still probably be treated as Hulking rather than… what is it, Enormous?) but still gain the other benefits, like movement speed. My only real issue with presenting Primarchs in an RPG lke this is the same I have with an opponent like Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes of Tzeentch. No matter how smart of a DM you have, they will not be presented with the proper level of intelligence/cunning/perception/anticipation/deception/etc.
  6. AluminiumWolf said: But if you didn't know they were genetically enhanced supersoldiers you would think they were just regular dudes. You probably would if you were comparing them to even a heavily muscled normal human, given the extra foot of height and the differences in proportionality between even a human at 7 feet and a Space Marine's differently-proportioned frame. For the record, I actually agree with you somewhat on the Space Wolf scout image - he does seem too human-looking (and proportioned) for a veteran Space Marine, but then, artistic license… A Space Marine, in my opinion, is going to have a somewhat thick frame of musculature, but will not have the sorts of 'roidy bulging muscles you're so adamant upon. I feel a Space Marine needs to be muscled and framed FOR HIS SIZE, his genetics designed to give him a skeletal system and accompanying musculature that can not only support the increased mass of said Space Marine, but can also provide a flexibility that those insanely-bunched-up-muscles just can't provide. I always imagine someone akin to Mariusz Pudzianowski, but taller and even perhaps slightly thicker, with a head that doesn't change in size quite as quickly. A thick frame that doesn't (usually) have the sort of bulging muscles that only astringents can really bring out. Now, COULD a human come relatively close to that size and shape? Possibly. He wouldn't end up nearly as strong, and his still-human bones would have a tougher time supporting that frame. Its the difference between a Human's strength when bulked up to Gorilla levels and a Gorilla - one has the musculature but not the skeletal system for the size, the other naturally has both. Space Marines not only have both, but they're enhanced in ways that nature would have a near-impossible time duplicating - A skeletal system that allows utilization of more concentrated muscle mass. for example. What should differentiate a Space Marine from a regular gene-enhanced human, in my opinion? A more appropriate-for-their-size frame of skeletal structure and musculature (including proportions, especially comparing the head to the rest of the body). The grace and speed with which a Space Marine can move, fight, and react. The myriad under-the-hood changes to the Space Marine's body chemistry, bones, and muscular structure that work together as a unifying whole in ways that pack all the tremendous strength attributed to Space Marines in as compact and efficient manner possible. I believe that, like the conceptual utilization of Space Marines, a Space Marine will be built on the principles of Force Multiplication and the concentration of force in pinpoint areas. An Ogryn is sort of the natural, human-esque size analog to a Space Marine, but as is often illustrated and pointed out, the costs of that evolutionary track include a downtick in reactions, in speed, and in dexterity. The best part of all this? You're free to imagine Space Marines however you please. There are depictions of Space Marines of all sizes, shapes, and 'roid levels. My personal preferences for an efficient frame and musculature do not impose any necessity on you, Wolf, to avoid imagining Space Marines with a comic book Hulk-like frame. …Actually, some of the recent movie versions of hulk seem pretty dead on to me. Slightly shorter, perhaps, slightly smaller but a bit elongated face. Also, not green. ;P
  7. David B said: Dear Errant, Yes, that is a very succint (and probably better) way of summing up what I would like. I am sorry, I am new to forums, and have yet to master the whole 'getting to the point' thing… I am sorry to say that I have never read or played the chaos 40k RPG. I suppose one thing I have in the back of my mind is that I find unneccessary to add the 'unnatural characteristic' rule at all - instead of giving a special rule to make orks have a high toughness modifier or eldar a high agility modifier (but otherwise only 'above average' toughness etc), when one could just make orks really tough, or Eldar super agile. It just seems simpler. My party has a feral world arch militant who, at L3, has a toughness of 55. That is higher than most orks, and from a fluff point of view seems strange to me (as he isn't all that powerful a character really - his profile isn't maxed out yet) - yes, the Ork has the higher toughness modifier, but in most non-combat situations our low-to-middle rank arch militant is effectively rather tougher - which I find a bit strange. If orks had a starting toughness in the low to mid 60s it means that an exceptionally tough human could be about as tough as an average ork, which seems reasonable. Also, I find it mildly irritating that as written unnatural toughness is really powerful, unnatural strength is very handy, and most of the others are not that great except in a few circumstances (as has been said elsewhere, unnatural intelligence, which sounds really cool, is in fact bordering on useless). Anyway, many thanks for your reply, I do appreciate other thoughts. All best, David. The issue, I think, would come from the way this game scales in terms of power. Orks, Eldar, Tau, maybe even Kroot… these I could see maybe being represented by a higher stat. The issue really comes to light when starting to go up the exponentially increasing tiers of power in the Warhammer 40k universe. What happens when you start encounting Space Marines, who by all fluff accounts are an order of magnitude (or more) stronger than even the most buff guardsman? How about things like the larger Daemons or Tyranids, who are orders of magnitude stronger than even Space Marines? Does one cap a stat at 100? Personally, I feel there needs to be a distinction between the exponentially scaling abilities in fluff and the linearly scaling characteristics. Black Crusade and Only War seem the best method, though I don't remember if they take into account skill checks (DH/RT/DW all give extra degrees of success for opposed tests, and some systems decrease the test difficulties when not opposed). If yes, then that allows Unnatural Characteristic to balance an NPC's stats based on how tough they should be to particular inputs (In combat, in opposed checks, and in terms of general applicability).
  8. When I sent this exact question to the Rules Answering service, they stated (beyond the standard "only your GM can determine whats right for your campaign, etc., etc.") that it was designed with multiple purchases in mind and suggested that you limit such purchases to a maximum of once per rank for balance purposes. Yes, this can provide an Inquisitor or interrogator with a greater Psy Rating than a Primaris Psyker. This seems balanced to me by the extreme costs associated with Inquisitor psychic purchases. Psy Rating increases and Ascended Psychic Powers through The Psyker's Gift are consistently more expensive, sometimes drastically (800 or 500 versus 2000 for the Psy Rating increases, 1000 or 1500 versus 2000 for the Ascended Psychic Powers), and thus take away a great deal from the versatility I consider necessary for an EFFECTIVE inquisitor to do his job. Granted, for Ascended Psychic Powers, one can sacrifice Major and Minor powers to equal the costs a Primaris pays, but you'll be sacrificing more powers to do so… again, reducing versatility that the Primaris won't. A Primaris will also have one of the three possible ascended traits (the Primaris equivalents of The Psyker's Gift, which grants nothing but the option of Elite Advances), which is nothing to sneeze at. A Ghost in the Warp, for example, is constantly used when talking about OP psykers, is it not? And for good reason… Ultimately, as a GM, if the Primaris Psyker complains about this disparity (wanting similar levels of power), I'd provide them as Elite Advances, probably at the same costs as The Psyker's Gift. Or, if I were worried about balance issues, i'd restrict The Psyker's Gift to every other rank, thus providing the same Psy Rating ceiling as a Primaris Psyker with a higher associated cost. I would NOT restrict Inquisitors to a single Ascended Power. That seems unnecessarily restrictive, especially given the costs…
  9. Concerning the Gobsplitta, it would most definitely be an Orc-manufactured weapon. First and foremost, I know of no chapter that would coat TEEF, of all things, for use as blades. A very rich, very ostentacious Warboss/Nob, on the other hand, would very much appreciate bling that takes even a Space Marine 2 hands to wield…
  10. CapitolImperialis said: Its a question that's been bugging me; what effect do holy weapons have on psykers and daemons/warp entities? I couldn't find it specified what extra effect they have. Generally speaking, they negate the Daemon's Daemonic Toughness. I don't believe Holy weapons have any effect on regular psykers.
  11. bogi_khaosa said: It says in the IH "The Penetration of weapons with the Primitive quality only applies to armour that also has the Primitive quality." In effect, primitive weapons have two Pen values; one for Primitive armour and one (of 0) for other armour. This contradicts both the original core book and the errata. Now, does the errata postdate the Inquisitor's Handbook, or vice versa? Personally, I'm not letting a non-Lathe mono weapon have more Pen than a chainsword, and do the same damage. Hi. By the rules, so long as a weapon has the Primitive Quality, its penetration only applies to armor that also has the Primitive quality. What does Mono do again? Ooooooh yeah, it removes the Primitive Quality. It states nothing about changing the penetration statistic. Thus, so long as the Primitive Quality is removed, its restriction on application towards non-Primitive armor is removed. This contradicts no rules. When given a choice between an interpretation that contradicts rules and doesn't contradict rules, avoid contradictions. Hence, Pen 4. I have a feeling, however, that your rule interpretation is really just a cover for what you consider a balance issue, which of course takes precedence in YOUR games far and above any contradiction avoidance edict, which I have no issue with. I just want to clarify the RAW. Also, its a mono-edged weapon that utilizes 2 hands rather than 1 (which, lets face it, is actually a pretty important utility- and versatility-wise), and thus shouldn't be directly compared to a 1-handed chainsword. Instead, compare it to an Astartes Chainsword (2 handed for mere mortals), which does more damage AND has the tearing quality all on its own. Granted, it has penalties for mere mortals using it (which I find kinda stupid, honestly… at the very least, a talent should be able to negate it!), but then, we really don't want to have to compare a Mono Long Sabre to an Eviscerator, do we? Frankly, the whole point of the Moritat's special ability is to make their fluff-preferred chosen weapons on ROUGHLY equal ground with the other high-end weapons they're giving up (especially given that they're already losing access to a while BOATLOAD of useful weapons, like, oh, bolters/hunting rifles/autoguns/whatever). Non-Lathe weapons should end up roughly Chainsword-esque in terms of effectiveness. Lathe weapons should rival a Power Sword. I don't really understand the point of nerfing that, given how niche a Moritat's role is for an acolyte cell.
  12. Grappling could also be a decent way to keep a Vindicare from dodging like a madman. At the very least, he wouldn't be able to dodge AoEs (as the dodger needs to be able to leave the area to successfully do so).
  13. The "Skill twice = talented" rule, which is actually "Skill twice = +10, Skill 3rd time = Talented", comes from Rogue Trader. It applies only to the background package and homeworld equivalencies. Once you start spending xp on the class table, it's too late to get the boost.
  14. H2SO4 said: Zakalwe said: Catachan said: Noctus said: Grappling a Psyker doesnt help you when you want to stop him from psykering. Almost all Psychic Powers need no gestures, or even talking. This is not D&D where every spell and their grandmother has somatic components that can be disrupted by being grappled. Sorcerers can be hindered that way, as these guys do indeed flail their arms around and chant dark invocations. Psykers simply will effects into being. The rules clearly state what a character being grappled can do and using psychic powers isn't one of the actions. Same with being of fire, I guess that's why witch hunters like using them flame weapons. A psyker encounter for my character pretty much goes like this. Resist psychic attack with help form wards, talents, berserker paragon talent, and resistances. Walk up to psyker and grab it by the neck. Squeeze till psyker isn't a problem any more (90 Str helps). Or the alternate easier solution is to just get within flamer range and hold down the trigger till success is achieved (dealing with a pyromancer proceed to using alternate method). Why over complicate things? Holy hands-of-death batman, what sort of beast is your character? My DH character has rather low WP so generally just relies on killing the (rogue) psykers any way he can before they kill him. @ Catachan, thanks for the heads up on flame weapons, my character hates psykers (for a LOT of very good in-game reasons). He is allowed a new gun, and I was thinking combi melta pistol but having read that maybe a combi flame pistol instead. (combi with Orthlak Mk IV, which he won't leave home without). There is a workaround for being on fire. In Rogue Trader, Into the Storm, pg 141: Pain Ward "The implanted character can ignore Stun effects and involuntary actions or penalties resulting from the pain of critical damage, being on fire, drowning, and so on." As for grappling, first they need to get into range. To avoid this, may I suggest using minor powers of "Distort Vision", "Float", "Wall Walk", or major powers of Shape Flesh (-> flyer), or See Me Not. Personally I would favor Distort Vision: "With this power, you disappear and your image reappears in another space no more than 10 metres away. Until the start of your next Turn, you are effectively invisible to all other creatures, defeating even sensory equipment. All attacks against you, should your position be discovered by means of a Psyniscience Test, are Very Hard (–30). Creatures and sensors that do not rely on sight are not affected by this power." Powerful psykers ARE scary opponents. That said, I agree that Ascension escalated and brought out problems in power creep with the way it gave out unnatural characteristics. While the problems with Ascension can be fixed & houseruled, I feel that the book just wasn't properly stress-tested prior to publication. 1. If you're constantly floating through the air, walking on walls, or GROW A PAIR OF WINGS, the setting itself (a part of the core rulebook, so not apart from the mechanics of the game, but complementary to it - psyker balance is not supposed to be considered in a vacuum) will have issues. Burning-brand-wielding peasants with pitchforks. Inquisitorial teams wondering about such careless displays of power attracting Greater Daemons from the Depths of Hell. Things like that. 2. Check the errata for Distort Vision. They nerfed it considerably. And for good reason. It is no longer a blanket immunity to everything. 3. See Me Not requires the enemy fail the willpower test. Possible, but hard to rely on. It also means you're not doing anything offensive that round. Mostly, though, I agree with you. Staying out of reach of enemies is the safest bet. Avoid fire like the plague (avoid that, too). Also, the biggest issues with psykers is the scaling of certain powers (created for a book with pretty reasonable upper limits to psychic potential) when things like PR 8+ and Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) start showing up.
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