well if yes then my spawns are gone

a question if orc use lobber crew action sacrefice this unit and other player must also sacrefice a unit, can i use bolt of change to sacrefice that development?

fledging spawns is when i face orc those lobber crew are so **** hard to face when all my units cost 2 and more, dont know how many games i lost to orc only because of lobber crew. fledging spawns can also start a q on second round wich can be really usefull and ofc for bloodthirster.

well i dont have bloodworm thats why i use blackorc for their high hp and the q dont have it either.

update Units Savage Gors:3 Festering Nurglings:3 Savage Marauders:3 Fledgling Chaos Spawn:2 Black Orc Squad:3 Squig Herders:3 Night goblins:3 Bloodthister:2 Chaos Knight:2 Bule Lord Of Pus:2 Valkia The Bloody:1 Melekh The Changer:1 Support Contested Village:3 Shire To Nurgle:2 Cload Of Flies:3 Sadistic Mutation:3 Banner chaos/orc:2 Warpstone excavation:3 Warpstone meteor:1 Banna of da red sun:1 Tactic Blood For The Blood God:2 Seduced By Darkness:3 Bolt Of Change:1 Rip Dere'eads Off:2 Will Of Tzeentch:1 Nurgle's Pestilence:2 Slaaneshs domination:2 Pillage:2 Quest Smash em all:2 Made this changes to have more options when i play. And so far it has good better. night goblins are cheap and can controll attchemnt, warpstone is just to good not to have, banna red sun to control resurses and last change quest think orc is better and is key to dwarfs. other than that i have made some slight changes on unit count.

Guys we had made a very big mistake wich change alot to the game card like troll vomit say "destroy all units in play" we did belive that was just units in balle not all units on board. So this give choas and orc a very big boost to the game. Really sorry for our mistake. This lead to that orc have never ever lost a game from now on troll vomit just owne all.

Thx cyberfunk i will try some of what you said. Order should have no problem with verena its destruction only. Said is i dont think it will help that much because we allready tried most off it, but i will be more carfull round 4-6 and save more cards problem still is scout for me.

Well all are against me its so wierd for me its a joke how good empire is with this combo after like 20 games and empire is at 90% win rate with this. But i guess iam wrong lets w8 and see how turnament goes. We still not gonna use the card human are still very good without it.

your play style with this deck as empire is to get get out scout first or second round after that you just build up with support cards and controll your oppnent with tactics cards. you only need 1 development on every side while your oppnent will need 5 to be safe. and you just hold out as empire untill verena kicks in then as i said before you just seal the deal with forced march and infentrate and you will have so big advantage that you hardly can lose.

what you say makes sense but dont work out that for us in real game. for us empire has like 90% win maby its the whole combo that makes it so good not just verena and will of electors. Pitoliers 3: Warrior priest 3: Reiksguard knights 3: Thyrus Gorman 3: Free company 3: Huntsman 3: Nuln tinkerers 3: Talavheim detachment Support 3: Warpstone Excavation 3: Temple of shallya 3: Contested village 3: Gate of sigmar Tactics 3: Will of the electors 3: Forced march 3: Judgement of verena 2-3 Twin-tailed comet 3: Sigmars intervention 3: Infiltrate We can t beat this combo no matter what. it allways get up verena and electors combo and destroy atleast 1 side and after that they just use force march and infiltrate to seal the deal. sometime we win but that only when we get very lucky draws like orc 3 spiders 3 warpstons something like that.

Aykenger said: Then the Shrine to Nurgle and Nurgle's Pestilence combo and Waaagh! would have to be changed as well, because they often are an auto win as well. Auto-Win Combos should simply be considered part of the game, but they are often situational and depend on luck of the draw. That is why you usually play best of 3. I dont see those 2 combos near as good. Yes they are game winners but only that, with verena you can win at round 3 that you cant do with the other 2. And i think waagh also is to cheap of a card but you can survive it. How many games have you played and tested the combos? we are 6 players that see very little chance to win vs good empire verena deck. We just hope there will be new cards that can counter this. We are not the best players but we sure are not bad and are very updated on strats and combos.

crowdedmind said: Judgement's real power comes fro forcing your opponent to play developments early on (thus shrinking their hand) in case you play it. If your opponents aren't playing 3+ developments into their kingdom then they need to start doing so. The Empire player also has to play multiple developments before Judgment in case the opponent knocks out their 1-2 developments in response to the card being played. Between this and destroying the Empire player's support cards early on (to slow their development) you should be able to buy yourself enough time to either put the squeeze on the Empire deck. Well I agree but the problem is that with scout out you will have no hand left and Order get all the good cards for development. Destruction dont have many cards that can make you gain or destroy development. Smash go boom dont work its only on your turn and when its his turn he just set down a development and move 2-4 off mine and play verena and its gg. something must be done to this. I suggest to either make verna cost 6 and make electors only move 1 development or make verna only target units or support are not both. this way you have a chance vs this and it will still be a really good combi but not a allmost aouto win.

Well i agree that my chaos deck is not the best but still very good for most part and i dont hvae all the good cards what do bloodworm do? And the problem vs empire is not only for my chaos i orc dwarf have like 10% win rate vs this as well when we play. we are like 3-6 that play

Here is my chaos/orc deck Savage Gors:3 Festering Nurglings:3 Savage Marauders:3 Fledgling Chaos Spawn:3 Black Orc Squad:3 Squig Herders:3 Bloodthister:3 Chaos Knight:2 Bule Lord Of Pus:2 Valkia The Bloody:1 Melekh The Changer:1 Support Contested Village:3 Shire To Nurgle:2 Cload Of Flies:3 Sadistic Mutation:3 Tactic Blood For The Blood God:3 Seduced By Darkness:3 Bolt Of Change:1 Rip Dere'eads Off:2 Will Of Tzeentch:1 Nurgle's Pestilence:1 Slaaneshs domination:1-3

**** you write to much I have also played today with my chaos/orc deck vs the empire deck and 3 loss no game near win haha. You build your empire deck wrong i will list all the 50 units for you Units 3: Pitoliers 3: Warrior priest 3: Reiksguard knights 3: Thyrus Gorman 3: Free company 3: Huntsman 3: Nuln tinkerers 3: Talavheim detachment Support 3: Warpstone Excavation 3: Temple of shallya 3: Contested village 3: Gate of sigmar Tactics 3: Will of the electors 3: Forced march 3: Judgement of verena 2-3 Twin-tailed comet 3: Sigmars intervention 3: Infiltrate

Yes we know what races are oppont is before game starts and build after that think its the most fun. Its **** hard to build a deck that can take on orc rush and dwarf bunker with the same deck. And we normal play best off 5 so we can change card between every match, that can be really fun,

Edit I have added 2 banner chaos/orc to the deck and i also remove bolt of change when i face Emipire and dwarfs i fear Verena so much.

Units Savage Gors:3 Festering Nurglings:3 Savage Marauders:3 Fledgling Chaos Spawn:3 Black Orc Squad:3 Squig Herders:3 Bloodthister:3 Chaos Knight:2 Bule Lord Of Pus:2 Valkia The Bloody:1 Melekh The Changer:1 Support Contested Village:3 Shire To Nurgle:2 Cload Of Flies:2 Sadistic Mutation:3 Tactic Blood For The Blood God:3 Seduced By Darkness:3 Bolt Of Change:3 Rip Dere'eads Off:2 Will Of Tzeentch:1 Nurgle's Pestilence:1 Quest Jurney To The Gate:2 This is the core set cards I use. When i face Order Emipire I add Burn It Down and Slaanesh's Domination. A card i also like to add is Warp Lightning Cannon works great to corrupt or get you more damage, note a sweet thing is to use warp cannon on one of their attacking unit and when they attack with that unit later you use Blood for the blood god Some combos to notice in this set is Cload of flies with Valkia the bloody, Shrine to nurgle with Nurgle's Pestilence and rip dere*eads off with bloodthirster. Plz comment on other units that work with this set and what i can make diffrent.

"Just because your chaos deck has threes of things, that dosn;t mean its a great deck." Ofc it dont make sure you have a good deck, but you can make much better deck if you know how to build. Played more games to day still empire rules with 1 loss and 8 wins. Dont think many of you guys know how good the empire deck is with this combo. Only deck that had good chance was orc with all out attack early but they still lost because with those deck ýou have trouble to afford develement. Emipre deck with forced march 3 Twin- Taled 3 Scout 3 Verena and 3 Electors 3 is right now imo the best combo out there. Ofc we could have missed somthing but we tried allmost everything to counter this nothing works, if you get a counter to this plz tell.

I have to agree with bob here the card is to powerfull. The reason is that Order have all the good card to build develement and 6 cards that can move develement. I have faced this combi 5 times and never ever been close to win and i play Chaos with some orc and have 3 off all cards. And if the human gets a scout out first round you will not have many cards left. I feel that you should not build your deck to counter a singel card thats just wrong, nerf the card or make destruction more cards that can counter it.