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Magnus the Pious

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Everything posted by Magnus the Pious

  1. boggle said: Ok i have the edition have played it many times am a fan..... However my issues 1. Not complete.....The game is expensive when you think what you need to play... And its not complete at first i thought ok...But now it really irritates me... 2.Can't cope with more than four players even with a large table its chit and card heavy. 3.Many cards just seem pointless almost as if it's the worst thing you can do or would want to... 4.The release schedule is bugging me...When will it be complete ? 5.I am having serious issues with it in game play as there are not enough advanced options and my players are finding this restrictive. 6.The game is not convention friendly... 7.The dice mechanic is ok however it's not that tell's a story...In my view Now before i get shot i must stress i have massively rated this game so far but im now beggining to worry about how expensive and limited in some ways things have become... Am i alone in these thoughts Regards No you are not alone. 1. Game is ridiculously expensive for what you get. $100 for something that gets you to 2 ranks is absurd. 2. Playing with 4+ players is crazy. I don't care what anybody else says, it gets real messy and sloppy. 3. Alot of the cards are pointless. Does it really matter? Players find the best ones and stick with them over and over. Out of all those cards players just repeatedly use the same ones anyhow. 4. Release schedule isn't too bad considering all the different chits and crap that's in them. It is to be expected when comparing to a traditional book rpg. 5. Yea I totally agree with you. Advancement really sucks in this edition. My players felt handcuffed with careers and options. 6. LOL! Who the hell would want to set this up for a large group of people at a convention?! The mere thought of it makes me laugh. It would be a nightmare and a giant mess. Maybe with 3-4 boxes and a football field for a table it might work. 7. The dice are overrated IMO. They actually get restrictive as a GM at times. Sometimes you have something planned in your head for a scene and the player rolls well but then you have to deal with all the boons and banes and it can turn a sweet move into a clumsy success. Gets tiring after awhile. Sometimes you just wanna know if you succeeded or not and let the GM do his job and tell you how it went. Not have to come up with weird side effects for every roll. BTW I would just blow off what commoner said to your post. This forum site is the worst. You have legitimate issues with the game and anytime someone has anything that doesn't praise this edition as the holy grail of all rpgs you are called a troll, grognard and (this is the best one it made me laugh when I read it) saboteur. You are a sabotuer even though you were praising this edition up and down when it 1st came out! LOL! I mean last time I checked, this was a forum for players to discuss the game. That means the positives with the negatives. I posted some issues with the game me and my players were having and the people on this forum lost their minds. I was called silly names, told to quit and leave, been givin' a hundred house rules that I didn't ask for to "fix" the game bla bla bla (and that doesn't even include the private messages I received from here). This site is filled with the most narrow minded, overly sensitive people I have ever experienced in any rpg forum. I can picture people in front of their computers reading some negative posts about the game going..."WHAT! ABSURD! HOW DARE THAT INFIDEL! THIS GAME IS THE BEST, HOW CAN HE SAY THAT?!" All red faced with tears and snot bubbles cause he doesn't have a life (or girlfriend for that matter). Anyhow, good luck with whatever you decide on for your rpg pleasure.
  2. Hey Dustin. I've played this game from the moment it came out. I quit playing it recently because me and my friends were having quite a LOT of issues with it (all explained in another post of mine regarding long term play). Anyways you are not alone, believe me...there are many people who spent alot of money on this version of warhammer and shelved it. Sorry it didn't work out for you but on the other hand welcome back to 2nd edition of warhammer. Old Warhammer is (and always will be as far as I'm concerned) the true Warhammer experience. At least you are still supporting Warhammer in one way or another. Now get out there and roll some Ulric's Fury 10s for us.
  3. Hey Peacekeeper_b That was cool what you said. Very stand up of you to say all that. I'm glad you were able to get was I was trying to say. BTW....yea Dark Heresy does kick ass! Love it
  4. Doc, the Weasel said: Magnus the Pious said: So all I have to do according to the insights in the posts.... Houserule this this this this and this. Make up my own rules Wait and see what FFG decides to put out and spend more money to get some options to make the $100 core set last for longer than 3 months And the infamous "If you got problems ..quit playing" Brilliant system indeed Alternatively, you could go to the forum of a game you don't like and complain. Gotta admit that was pretty good Doc
  5. So all I have to do according to the insights in the posts.... Houserule this this this this and this. Make up my own rules Wait and see what FFG decides to put out and spend more money to get some options to make the $100 core set last for longer than 3 months And the infamous "If you got problems ..quit playing" Brilliant system indeed
  6. The problem with careers whether it's basic or advanced is characters max out way too fast. Stats go to 5. Access to more cards? What for? Players use the same ones over and over anyways and combat only lasts 2-3 rounds, you won't really get to ever use all the cards. Skill training? 3 max done. Houserule and remove max caps? Might as well play Exalted or something cause you are going to be rolling 250,000 dice (don't forget to sign your check over to FFG cause you gonna need alot more dice to play). You gonna have a hard enough time justifying your challenge/misfortune modifiers against players cause at rank 2-3, success rates are off the chain! Whats the point of advancement when most players are pretty content with what they are now? Ironbreaker doesn't really want to be a soldier. He wants to unlock a higher tier Ironbreaker (should have been shieldbreakers then release ironbreakers in an advanced career anyways). Hey I advanced! I get another die to add to my already ridiculous pool of dice and monster success rate. The dice? Yea they are cool, but you are saying you as a GM can't roleplay dice results from percentiles? Really? So when you play old warhammer for example your whole table just says "miss" "hit"? That's terrible and it doesn't justify spending a $100 so they can have dice that tell them how to roleplay and add flavor. No need to justify 3rd edition by bashing 2nd edition now, this isn't an edition war post. This is about some serious flaws with 3rd edition that people are seeing from a couple months of playing.
  7. nub5 said: Magnus the Pious said: The scary thing is....the next couple releases by FFG have nothing to do with any of these issues that players are having with the game. All the same problems will still be there. Not good.... Do you want the hopeful or cynical answer? Hopeful: We have not seen what is in the GM kit. They can easily put in Rank 3 cards, advance careers. Cynical: You are correct Hey Nub5....first of all ..lol! 2nd of all....I'm just going by product description....lean VERY HEAVILY (to the point where you are laying on the floor on your side) towards cynical.
  8. The scary thing is....the next couple releases by FFG have nothing to do with any of these issues that players are having with the game. All the same problems will still be there. Not good....
  9. Glad to see I'm not the only one with these issues. Usually if anyone says anything somewhat negative they get hammered in the forums. This game is a lot of fun and I am a big supporter of warhammer. Yet IMHO I think it does get old way too fast. Can you imagine doing the same amount of damage ALL the time for say a year long campaign? Maxing characters out in 2-3 months play with no options available (don't know about you guys but my players are heavy rpers that put alot of thought into their characters..this is not a good thing for them)? Seeing the same cards played over and over ond over.......for an extended campaign? Cleaning all that stuff up and getting it back in the box every time you play? Constantly looking at forums to see houserule suggestions for this and that and this because while the mechanics do work...they are ALOT of issues that pop up? Everything about this game screams short term play. I want to play warhammer and I want to play it for a long time, building stories and developing characters. I feel shortchanged here. It's an expensive set up thats too limited and flawed.
  10. keltheos said: the game is 100% playable as written. Some players come from different RP backgrounds and like to tinker with their systems. I can't think of a GM out there who doesn't change something in a game to suit their playstyle or that of their players. FFG has also created a very open system. It lends itself nicely to customizing, but folks can have a perfectly good time playing with just what they have and never apply a house rule to the batch. Could the rulebook be better organized? Sure. Everyone has some beef with the games they buy, even their favorites. keltheos said: the game is 100% playable as written. Some players come from different RP backgrounds and like to tinker with their systems. I can't think of a GM out there who doesn't change something in a game to suit their playstyle or that of their players. FFG has also created a very open system. It lends itself nicely to customizing, but folks can have a perfectly good time playing with just what they have and never apply a house rule to the batch. Could the rulebook be better organized? Sure. Everyone has some beef with the games they buy, even their favorites. Ok i don't wanna turn this post into one of houseruling that was not my intent. I was just commenting on the fact that for a game thats really new there sure are ALOT of houserules going on in these forums for quite a few issues people are having with the game. That is normally a bad sign for a new game.Yes I know you can play the game as written. I never disputed that. I never said the game wasn't fun either (I know ppl r real sensitive around here so i just want to make sure ppl don't mistake what i'm trying to get at). My problem is the game doesn't seem to have much longevity to it. If this was a $10-20 game i could live with that. A $100 core set that already is showing so much limitations is upsetting (to me anyways, some of you have more money and time to burn than I do).
  11. Been reading all the posts around here and i'm getting a bit upset here. You all this money on the game, seems like too many people have to houserule EVERYTHING about it. Houserule the monsters, houserule the dice mechanic, houserule damage, houserule the action cards and recharge rates etc. etc... I know certain GMs and groups like to houserule stuff to make things fit their group, I understand that. But the consensus on these forums is that all these houserules are to fix actual flaws in the game that seem "broken" not to enhance their rp experience to fit their individual table. So for my $130 (of course i got the toolkit with it) i get a ruleset that I have to practically rewrite myself (I for one am getting real tired of houseruling everything...my time is important, i'm at the point in my life where I just wanna play) and i get an incomplete game that after 2-3 months is pretty much exhausted. My enthusiasm for this game is dwindling as I feel like a chump that got ripped off. I have never bought a core set/book/rules/whatever in any rpg that I felt my options expire so fast after 2-3 months of play. FFG's response is pretty much "hey wait a few years and buy lotsa box sets during that time and you may get enough stuff that will last you awhile and give you some options so you can play your core set." Sorry about the rant guys, I'm just frustrated.
  12. Parzival said: For what ever it is worth, I was concerned about the longevity of a campaign upon my first "read through'. The game is just not built for the long haul. Yea i'm getting that impression which is a real shame considering all the money I put into it. Very disappointing.
  13. Hey Gallow I see your point. I appreciate your response, love chattin with fellow rpers. I'm just saying (I don't know if you are a player or GM), myself as a GM, after a couple months of playing this game straight I sometimes say to myself..."If he plays double strike one more goddamn time I'm gonna strangle him ". I love the dice mechanic, especially after we 1st started. I do have to admit though after a while with those fixed damage rates and extremely high success rates, the coolness factor of it does diminish after time. I kinda miss rolling seperately for damage. Have to admit nothing brings out more smiles than rolling an exploding 10 on a d10 when you hit a greenskin. It does have a more dramatic effect at a table then... 4 hammers, +2 damage. One player even mentioned at our last session that we have always been very descriptive when we played and rolled dice in the old system. The new dynamic dice system is losing a little luster and is starting to be not so dynamic now. I'm gonna have to blindfold their characters on a tightrope while its raining lava so i can add enough challenge and misfortune dice for them to feel like they might miss a roll..hehe. The extra components can add to the game i agree. At times though when you are playing deep into the night and it's over...you just want to go home and start dreading the packing up part and you begin to wonder...."hmmm we never had issues before with creating new ideas or roleplaying elements in a game..I wonder if all this x-tra stuff is really worth it?" I do feel character advancement is seriously flawed. No advanced type careers and too much "sideways" advancing....I think my players are starting to miss the whole advanced career system process. Helps them create interesting stories about how their characters advance. Lot of pregame talk at character generation with im gonna go from this to this to this because at some point this is gonna happen to me and I'm gonna want to do this..blah blah blah. Now it's like..." I'm already an Ironbreaker uhhh what do i do now? I guess I'll become a soldier...ugh! I really dont want to be a soldier but I guess it'll have to do." Kinda stifles creativity at our table. I do hate how just about every career is available from the get go. Careers seem like they do get stagnant after time. It seems like it's going to be a very long time before we ever get anymore career options and when they do come they will most likely be mostly basic careers with a couple "advanced" careers (if there is such a thing anymore). These are serious issues when you are trying to build a long running campaign. I do enjoy the game but I'm begining to fear that this edition might turn into a lets play once in a while in between our real campaign type of game. Its only been a few months now and I'm getting that "GM sense" that the players are starting to feel a little roadblocked with their character options and dice results. That's a bad sign for a new game and I'm just wondering if anybody else out there is feeling this and what they are doing about it. It is sad because when we 1st started and everything was new we thought this game was spectacular! (still is... just seems more flawed than we anticipated) BTW...you are 100% correct ...warhammer is the best fantasy world ever created
  14. With everything i said in the OP...do any of you believe that this edition gets too old too quick and fails as something you can play for the long haul?
  15. First let me say I am a big supporter of this new edition, been having lots of fun with it since its release so please no accusations of trolling. Me and my group have been playing the 3rd edition now since it first came out. Been noticing the last couple sessions seem to be losing some steam. The same fixed damage rates over and over, the limited careers to jump to and it seems the same action cards over and over. Players fall in love with certain cards, that can't be helped i guess. Damage rates are always around the same (couple points different here and there), makes me miss random damage with possibilties of mass damage. The career cards was an exciting part of the game when we 1st started but now I'm getting the sense from my players that the career transition from card to card doesn't mesh well. I asked them about how they felt about the careers and the enthusiasm for it really seems to be diminishing. Why? I asked. Some reasons here... very limited amount of careers (obvious), no sense or feel of career progression (i.e. 1 player is a witchhunter now...excited to become a witchhunter but now he's close to changing again...and it does feel "downhill" from there..he don't wanna become a watchman or something like that). I have to admit it is a big difference in character story and advancement/progression compared to earlier editions (NOT STARTING AN EDITION WAR HERE!). Maybe they are too used to designing character paths from older editions going from nothing (i.e beggar) to something (i.e champion) and the story, time, effort and the sense of accomplishment of doing it. From missing all the time in combat to becoming a great warrior or whatever. They hit all the time right from the get go in 3rd ed. If you succeed most of the time right out of the gate, adding dice from advancement isn't quite as fulfilling. I have to admit you have to have a certain mindset going into character design. In older WFRP you designed your path to work your way up to certain careers while now you start (excluding witchhunter) as whatever you want and when you advance you are kinda "dumbing down" your career path (i.e. going from swordmaster to burgher or tollkeeper doesn't quite inspire the players as much). I have noticed combat does feel repetitive lately as I mentioned earlier with the fixed damage and multiple usage of the same cards. I'm getting the sense of maybe this isn't the game to run a long term campaign. It's pretty much brand new and it does feel like its getting old too quickly. The options in this game is very limiting (I know more stuff is coming out soon but still...) and I am getting a bit concerned here (this isn't exactly the cheapest game in the world to play and you will need to drop some serious cash to make it feel more complete whenever FFG puts out more stuff). Anybody else who's been running it for a while getting any similiar feelings about anything I've stated here in this post?
  16. Personally I think WFRP is a very good 1st time rpg. The best point of this is the fact that once you get the core rules down it's all play time. No looking up books all the time, all the info is in front of you. It really is an easy game, I don't understand why so many people on here is saying it's so hard for the GM. All you need is an imagination and knowledge of the core mechanic (which once you get used to it, it's extremely easy) and you are all set. You literally play the whole time without 5-10 minute rule lookups on every single thing that you do. As far as these suggestions of saying D&D 4th is a great beginer game is laughable. I totally disagree with that. You are going to be drawing maps all day. Every encounter you run will have to be drawn out on a grid or set up. Combat is nothing but Battle Chess on a board. Wanna "wing" a surprise spur of the moment encounter? Well have the players wait around while you draw out the whole scene. Going from computer games to D&D 4th is defenitely a step backwards. D&D is a computer game on paper. If you want a roleplaying experience..try WFRP.
  17. mac40k said: Magnus the Pious said: Magnus the Pious said: Thought I just did? No, all you said was that you wouldn't suggest that a PC had to leave for 100 years. How would you handle it? I still don't see that addressed by your previous post. All you did was go on to say that you wished they had an earlier, more basic career and had to work up to Swordmaster. Okay, so if you house rule it to make Swordmaster an advanced career, how will PCs in your game become one in game? What are they required to do? Seek out another Swordmaster in the Empire as a mentor? How long will their training take? Where and how will they acquire the Sword of Hoeth? As I said, I really want to know because I'm having a hard time justifying someone becoming a Swordmaster if they don't start as one. As far as house ruling it since you put me on the spot Mac. Well if a player states he wants to become a Swordmaster for example, he'd have to state that fact at character creation. I would never allow any career to hop over to one at a whim (like your Envoy example). In my campaign being a swordmaster is a lifetime goal not something you hop on to after 10 sessions and you just want to beef up your character. So, using my earlier example of having an "initiate" level swordmaster I would either ...A) Take the soldier career and tweek him into the initiate swordmaster career (give him the sword but limit the number of cards accessable?) then jump into Swordmaster or...B) Just rename the Swordmaster "Initiate" Swordmaster. Problem with B is I'm holding alot of stock in hoping that FFG puts out more advanced careers in the immediate future for the Swordmaster, which I don't have a real good feeling about. From what I gather I don't see anything of the like from their "hints" of upcoming products (unless theres some coming in the GM pack..if thats what it is). Then, when the new advanced career does comes out (say Blademaster for example) I would rename that one Swordmaster. I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do yet, I'm still thinking on it. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them.
  18. mac40k said: D&D4e is a highly tactical game that requires miniatures and scale movement. Some people really like that and others don't. I appreciate the fact that FFG isn't trying to compete with D&D by trying to build a better tactical simulation. Instead, they've provided us with a completely different play experience. And yet with a little bit of work you can still use scale movement if you want to without FFG having to provide official ranges for all weapons etc. Probably easier than the effort required to play D&D without miniatures. Did FFG miss out on an opportunity by not including rules to support scale movement? Possibly, but they are definitely going for a different style of game that yes, is more narrative. The fact that it doesn't appeal as much to those looking for more tactical combats that involve scale movement is hopefully offset by the appeal to imaginative players that enjoy envisioning the actions described on the cards and dice results. With all the table real estate taken up by other stuff in this game, a map or board to support scale movement would be excessive. In order to support scale movement, FFG might have had to rethink too many other aspects of the game to free up table space to make room for it. I for one am happy they didn't make scale movement required and chose to innovate in other areas. I totally agree. Also, there's nothing stopping you from making it tactical on a grid if thats your preference.
  19. mac40k said: Magnus the Pious said: Concerning the last paragraph. I would never suggest havin a pc leave for a hundred years. I would have hoped that Swordmaster (or waywatcher,wardancer etc.) would have had a basic career path to start with. Clerics of Sigmar aren't blessing/prayer throwing warhammer wielding badasses to start. They are initiates 1st, you have to work and earn it to become a higher level priest. Same thing here. I just thought the more sensible way of approaching this would be to have a starting career (initiate swordmaster for example) thats pretty much trained but highly inexperienced and not 100% developed. Still a badass in a sense but just hasn't earned the title/recognition of a Swordmaster yet. Then progress into advanced careers so when he does reach Swordmaster...he's a real badass, deadly as sin, don't look at him the wrong way, SWORDMASTER . You don't always have to get everything you want right off the bat. I like working my way up to stuff..i love that sense of accomplishment. I always felt that in Warhammer nothing was given and everything was earned..through blood and sacrifice. IMHO. So your problem isn't the career per se, it's with the title? The character at chargen isn't 100% developed and probably doesn't deserve the title until they complete the career, which by the rules they must do. I don't have a problem looking at the Basic career as the equivalent of Initiate because I assume that advanced versions of the career are forthcoming because Swordmaster is also a trait. Since we don't know what the titles of those will be yet, you can just change the name of the basic career to Swordmaster trainee if you like. And I'd still like to hear how you plan to address PCs moving into these careers in game. Thought I just did?
  20. mac40k said: This is why I don't have a problem with them being starting careers. The starting career is just what you were doing before you became an adventurer. It's fluffy to presume that a Swordmaster spent 100 years in training before he ended up in the Old World. Coming up with the back story of how and why he is here and has joined this band of adventurers is part of the fun of creating that starting character. A player who begins as a Swordmaster and spends 3 creation points to take 4 Way of the Sword action cards is going to be more than capable against NPC soldiers and I daresay, outshine his Rat Catcher buddy in a fight as well. I mean, have you looked at the Way of the Sword cards? One is like a turbo Dodge, another let's you recover your other active defenses more quickly, and another let's you recharge other Way of the Sword actions faster. You can engage an enemy at close range, hit him, and bounce back out of engagement without spending any maneuvers, and then get bonuses on all future actions (while the card is recharging). You can even throw your big ass sword and let's not forget that the Sword of Hoeth is pretty figgin' awesome by itself, adding a Fortune die to all attacks and letting you draw two cards and pick which one to use whenever you do a crit. Final Stroke of the Master, while one <P> more difficult to execute is pretty devastating, but with bonuses from other action cards, the Sword itself, and a Fortune Point or two thrown in, it shouldn't be too hard to get it off. By the time he takes the other 3 Way of the Sword action cards as advances and has all 7, he's going to be pretty bad ass. I don't think he's got to worry about having his ass handed to him by a Scribe that gets up in his face either (to borrow the UFC fighter vs. librarian example). Now I'm assuming that since Swordmaster is a trait, that there will be advanced career level(s) for him to progress into with even more Way of the Sword actions for him to take at some point. We don't know yet when that will be and anyone starting a Swordmaster in a campaign now might be stuck changing to another basic career while waiting for expansion material to be released. This can easily be explained by the fluff however. He just has to take whatever opportunities are presented to him given his current circumstances. Contrast this with those that want to make this an advanced career to start with. So my High Elf Envoy decides he want to become a Swordmaster. Turning to his companions he says, "Nice knowing you guys, but I've decided to return to Ulthuan to become a Swordmaster. I'll come back and look you up after I complete my training, that is if any of you are still alive in 100 years." I think it is much more tricky to come up with a fluffy explanation of how an existing character becomes a Swordmaster than it is for a starting character. Those that are concerned about the Swordmaster basic career not lining up with the fluff, please explain the fluffy way you will manage a career change into this career. mac40k said: This is why I don't have a problem with them being starting careers. The starting career is just what you were doing before you became an adventurer. It's fluffy to presume that a Swordmaster spent 100 years in training before he ended up in the Old World. Coming up with the back story of how and why he is here and has joined this band of adventurers is part of the fun of creating that starting character. A player who begins as a Swordmaster and spends 3 creation points to take 4 Way of the Sword action cards is going to be more than capable against NPC soldiers and I daresay, outshine his Rat Catcher buddy in a fight as well. I mean, have you looked at the Way of the Sword cards? One is like a turbo Dodge, another let's you recover your other active defenses more quickly, and another let's you recharge other Way of the Sword actions faster. You can engage an enemy at close range, hit him, and bounce back out of engagement without spending any maneuvers, and then get bonuses on all future actions (while the card is recharging). You can even throw your big ass sword and let's not forget that the Sword of Hoeth is pretty figgin' awesome by itself, adding a Fortune die to all attacks and letting you draw two cards and pick which one to use whenever you do a crit. Final Stroke of the Master, while one <P> more difficult to execute is pretty devastating, but with bonuses from other action cards, the Sword itself, and a Fortune Point or two thrown in, it shouldn't be too hard to get it off. By the time he takes the other 3 Way of the Sword action cards as advances and has all 7, he's going to be pretty bad ass. I don't think he's got to worry about having his ass handed to him by a Scribe that gets up in his face either (to borrow the UFC fighter vs. librarian example). Now I'm assuming that since Swordmaster is a trait, that there will be advanced career level(s) for him to progress into with even more Way of the Sword actions for him to take at some point. We don't know yet when that will be and anyone starting a Swordmaster in a campaign now might be stuck changing to another basic career while waiting for expansion material to be released. This can easily be explained by the fluff however. He just has to take whatever opportunities are presented to him given his current circumstances. Contrast this with those that want to make this an advanced career to start with. So my High Elf Envoy decides he want to become a Swordmaster. Turning to his companions he says, "Nice knowing you guys, but I've decided to return to Ulthuan to become a Swordmaster. I'll come back and look you up after I complete my training, that is if any of you are still alive in 100 years." I think it is much more tricky to come up with a fluffy explanation of how an existing character becomes a Swordmaster than it is for a starting character. Those that are concerned about the Swordmaster basic career not lining up with the fluff, please explain the fluffy way you will manage a career change into this career. Concerning the last paragraph. I would never suggest havin a pc leave for a hundred years. I would have hoped that Swordmaster (or waywatcher,wardancer etc.) would have had a basic career path to start with. Clerics of Sigmar aren't blessing/prayer throwing warhammer wielding badasses to start. They are initiates 1st, you have to work and earn it to become a higher level priest. Same thing here. I just thought the more sensible way of approaching this would be to have a starting career (initiate swordmaster for example) thats pretty much trained but highly inexperienced and not 100% developed. Still a badass in a sense but just hasn't earned the title/recognition of a Swordmaster yet. Then progress into advanced careers so when he does reach Swordmaster...he's a real badass, deadly as sin, don't look at him the wrong way, SWORDMASTER . You don't always have to get everything you want right off the bat. I like working my way up to stuff..i love that sense of accomplishment. I always felt that in Warhammer nothing was given and everything was earned..through blood and sacrifice. IMHO.
  21. Ok I guess I'm making too big of a deal about this. I am obviously in the minority about this subject. I'll just house rule it and hope it all works out. My point was I feel I shouldn't have to. The writers of FFG should have done a little more research IMO before just throwing those careers out in to the fold. Guess I was hoping for a little more support in all my complaining here from the 'hardcore' warhammer folk but I am defenitely a dying breed. I mean I still picture Wardancers with mohawks, now they are depicted as chicks with long flowing hair and braids. If a new person unfamiliar with warhammer played this they would have no knowledge that they used to have mohawks . Pointless tidbit I know. I need to get in the mindframe that this is a new Warhammer (and a REAL FUN one too!) made for a newer younger crowd. Out with the old in with the new. Writers should have the flexability to write whatever they want and not be hamstrung by previous lore from older warhammer stuff (no matter how much that bothers me!). So sorry for all my bitchin' here...Long Live Warhammer!
  22. PrinceLucifer said: I have been with the Warhammer universe for far more than a decade now (started 1993 with the tabletop game), and I also have to say that I find it annoying... According to what Rick Priestly (and he is the inventor of Warhammer after all...) once said when I visited him in Nottingham a Wardancer isn't simply being called to it by young years. A wardancer (and I think this applies to Swordmasters as well) is a renown warrior that has already had tons of experience and lateron has been invited by the master of the wardancers to join them. After that he starts traininng and only ever leaves his training grounds after being finished with it. For the roleplay this means one thing: a Wardancer, no matter if finished or left before being done with training, is someone you should fear, because to even be accepted into the wardancers he has to be elite. So... I don't think Wardancers (or Swordmasters) should be basic, I am not even sure if those should be Advanced careers... I think they should be master careers, on the same level as a lector or arch-lector in magic terms and should be strictly granted by GM only... This game brings such a great opportunity to fit into the Warhammer universe and make for a cool experience, it makes me really sad to see that they are starting to mess this up with things like that. Cheers Lucifer Glad to see somebody in the community knows what the hell I'm talking about! It absolutely amazes me how many people are ok with the idea of these guys being basic careers. Get alot of "well who knows how good the scribe is with a sword..don't judge a book by it's cover...he could be just as good as a wardancer in a fight...blah blah blah." Listen...if I was a betting man and I put a Librarian against a UFC fighter...I would expect the UFC guy to beat the living **** out of the Librarian. None of this, "don't judge the Librarian you don't know what he's been through or what experiences he's had in his life" crap. The POINT is you KNOW the UFC fighter can kick some serious ass and knows how to fight..cause that's what he's all about. If a group of poachers go into Loren Forest and get ambushed by a small band of Waywatchers, the poachers should be in the mind frame of 'oh no we are in serious trouble!' before they get their asses handed to them. Not "eh, just a few Waywatchers, I've had some experience in scouting before so we should be ok", then give those elves all they could handle. I can't stress this enough (especially for the people new to warhammer) Waywatchers, Wardancers, and Swordmasters are not your typical basic wet behind the ears elf! C'mon FFG teach the newbs some warhammer lore here! It's called "flavor". What I find strange, considering the amount of warhammer knowledge and experience in these communities, is nobody really cares. Waywatchers, Wardancers, and Swordmasters are now just basic, intro level beginer elves who don't know anymore about their craft that any other guy off the street would know. 30 years of what has been told to us in previous warhammer supplements/books just went out the window and most people are like "so, its just some silly warhammer lore...who cares? I can start as a Wardancer..yeah!" I know it's just a game but I would figure the warhammer crowd, who are very passionate about the Old World and love it because of it's lore, would have been all over this! That's like this new warhammer game coming out and they change the history saying Sigmar never existed it was really Karl Franz who united the empire and its tribes and allied with the dwarves. People would be causing riots in front of FFG! One other note about this. People can say "well if it bothers you so much just make them advanced careers." As a previous poster stated earlier..it doesn't work that way. It's actually a hindrance to make Swordmaster, or Wardancer an advanced career in certain ways because of card choice/selection options. A guy who starts as one will have more options than a guy who advances to one.
  23. I, too, have concerns as far as careers go. I'm not even going to bring up the whole waywatcher, swordmaster, wardancer basic career issue I have (previous post). It seems though this new system of careers for this version of wfrp is seriously flawed. It is nothing but bouncing from one basic career to another basic career. All you are doing is "stacking" careers. There really is no sense or feel of a career and its progression. Now I've been told to be patient and wait for new material for advanced careers but advanced careers are not what we might be expecting. All advanced careers are, are rehashed versions of the basic career, with nothing really added to them. You are literally picking the same advancements over again (see the slayers careers they are practically the exact same thing). So expect all careers to be basic and start getting into the mindframe of players really having to make some oddball career changes to make a pretty unstructured mix and match character. Expect the possibilties of running a player like this.... coachman to noble to ratcatcher to gambler to intiate. Doesn't seem like a very good character but that's how it is now. Yuck! Players just don't have any real career path to follow. The way FFG is designing advanced careers so far....every basic career will need an advanced version of a basic career. Champion Ratcatcher anyone?
  24. GreyLord I don't know what size table you have but the bigger the better, depending on the number of players attending. Paper/pencills?...I find that I hardly ever use them at all at my table but I would defenitely have some around (theres always some reason to have them at any rpg and depending on if you like/dislike some of the tokens/pieces in the game you can still revert to the oldie but goody paper and pencil to track certain things). Have some type of box to roll in. A shitload of dice are going to fly around and you don't want to mix up the rolled dice with the other dice on the table or have them roll on to someone's play area. Cause yeah, there are alot of cards and tracking tokens laying around. The new wfrp is very incomplete as far as warhammer goes. It does lack alot of the careers you are accustomed to, not much setting info, incomplete magic schools etc. As far as playing the game though, it has everything you need. So gathering a lot of supplies to play is not going to be an issue. You really don't need to prep for a session, except of course reading the rules and becoming familiar with them if you are GMing it. One bit of prep advice I can give if you are running the game...start setting it all up before the players get there. Have cards organized into different stacks accordingly, all the chits/tokens in neat different piles, put the puzzle tracking bars together. Don't have the players sitting around watching you put all this **** together, cause this is actually the slowest part of the game. The playing part is 100 mph. Don't even need the books during play (once you get familiar with the rules), you just...PLAY! Good Luck
  25. limelight said: Don't know about you but the wost WFRP ish movie looks like it might just be "Solomon Kane" google the trailer!!!! NOW! It does look pretty sweet doesn't it?
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