I really downplay any sort of "treasure" in this game (mostly to be different from other fantasy RPGs). What I do play up is wages for work done. I always make sure my heroes get paid. In other rpgs the treasure tables were so great, I'd often have their employer's throat get slit or end up missing just because the pay ontop of the treasure was nuts.

This is two 2.5 feet wide x 6 foot tables put together. This is what I game most RPGs on (unless running at the shop. You'll see 5 players spots on the table. I have room for a 6th (player was missing that night) on my left. Of course I'm using a dry erase board. That takes up some space but gives more visuals, players seem to like it. There's no easy way to add a 7th player for sure. Granted if the players don't mind stacking cards you could get more mileage out of the space. However, I think the game really shines as a small group RPG, not a large group one, so that's why I've cut the group off at 6 players. I think the game would be brillant at 3-4. I did buy a second core set and a toolkit so I have plenty of materials. Snacks are a dangerous thing with this game, however by purchasing the cards sleeves, as I've done, you can miniumize the pop spillage being a huge issue. Here's a picture of all the cards in their sleves and the wizards section.

GreyLord said: WOW! If this is how the community preps someone to play WHRP I expect it WILL die an early death! Talk about trying to scare players away instead of telling them how to prep for it. If I wasn't going in with an open mind I wouldn't even give it a chance. What do you do at Demo games, any one who says, sure I'll give it a shot but I'm not too fond of what I've seen... You just go ahead and tell them they needn't try and that they'll hate it anyways? Actually, I'm being too harsh, about 50% of the thread seemed to be trying to be helpful saying go in with an open mind and other things, whilst the others seem to want to get me not to play. That mindset kind of irks me to tell the truth. However, I expect they'll interpret anything I say to just validate their opinion or something. For the record, I think the new D&D is a great system and could have stood on it's own, I also think that they stole the Title so they could install a new system and get rid of another which may have been too much competition for theirs to be successful...IN MY OPINION. I don't know if WFRP is a good system or terrible one yet. I won't till next month. However, laying it on the table, the biggest grudge against it is the same one I have against the NEW D&D versions. That doesn't mean it's a bad system or a good system, but I have just found out that I think at least two people would kick me from their tables just for that opinion.... Is that truly representative of the new WHRP community...to kick out new players before they try? I hope would hope not. Here are some things I would like to know...when I say prep...will I need paper, will I need pencils, will I need soemthing to pass the time, how big a table will I need? My friend bought the game. I'm the ONLY one that I know of thus far that has offered to play it and try it out, and in that regard I also will be the one hosting the event, and I am probably ALSO the one responsible for gathering any group or groups to play. So I need to know what to prep for. I may hate it, I might like it, it will depend on what it's like when I play. Personally I've not been impressed thus far, but if someone already has a copy I'm not adverse to giving it a shot. I still dont' even know how many I'll get to play, it may only be a small group (as I think he only has one copy, and from what I gathered that restricts us to three or four players)? First off welcome. Secondly, it's not plagurisim, they own a brand. Wizards owns DnD, they can make 100 different rule mechanics for it, it doesn't change it's DnD. That's really an absurd arguement to make and one I'm most intrigued with your defence of the previous system, an arguement you didn't make back when Wizards first radically overhauled the game in 2000. Thirdly, the sales of pathfinder are no where near the sales of 4E, so they have nothing to fear from previous editions. Wizards went a different route because they saw the sales potential in new rules, and it was MUCH better sales potential that old rules. Pathfinder makes a living off of essentially "plagurism" because legally you can't copyright RPG rules, only the presentation. They used a loophole to find themselves a niche market (what their motivation against wotc is, well that could be a long list). If you wanted to make any arguement of plagurism in the hobby market I'd take it up with a company using 90% previously published rules, albeit legally (so technically not plaguirsm, although a heck of a copy/paste job). Edition wars are inevitable as people have strong opions about what they like and hate, and want to spend their days convincing other fat nerds "They aren't having fun". The real truth is finding a game you love and playing it. If that's this great, if not, well there's other things out there. Next, give the rules a couple once overs, then come back and ask specific questions. Everyone here wants to help. It's a more story oriented game than the simulationist and gamist systems on the market. Be prepared for more emphasis on plot.. Be prepared to be flexible and story oriented. IF you have previous material from other editions, all the better. That stuff can be incorporated, at least the fluff, and plot points. As for the table, the game requires a large table space. I use a 6 foot by 5 foot space and can accomadate 6 players and myself. It's better as a small group game I admit. 6 Players is pushing it imo, but I had about 10 people dying to play and may have to start a second group as a result. The game doesn't restrict you to 3 players, that's just the number of basic cards in the set. So if you want more players you either share basic cards or buy a toolkit that adds another set of basics or buy another core set which is enough to add 3 more players.

Rat Catcher said: Is it easy to design adventures? I've still got this impression that 3ed isn't like normal rpgs. So does the game lend itself well for GMs to create their own adventures? Is adventure design similar to other rpgs? It's the same as any other rpg. Writing an adventure is probably more cumbersome than say, 4E DnD, but that's just because you are having to do more than drag and monsters into a word document. As far as writing your own stuff it's really pretty much like an other RPG.

HedgeWizard said: I took some colored glass beads that I have (from prototyping board games) and use colors instead of chit number to relate distance. It cuts down on the number on the table. I use green=close, yellow=med, red=long, blue=extreme (though we may switch the last two). I gave beads a thought then I went to fatigue makers since running just ment you were going to pick them up and add them to your sheet anyhoo.

UncleArkie said: So I have been doing a lot of reading up for my game, looking for cool stuff, maps and so on when I came across this, an inn generator, bets thing I have seen in a long time. http://www.anothercaffeinatedday.com/resources/default/inns.html bookmarked, thanks.

HedgeWizard said: The adventurer's kit comes with all the basic combat cards and duplicates of a few of the more "standard" cards, which helps. Otherwise, my thoughts on the matter: I think it *tends* to promote individually different characters, but take into account the following... You shouldn't let an artificial limitation like card availability determine the character for you. Why can't you copy the card or, oh I don't know, write it down like we all used to do back when we had character sheets? Seems pretty reasonable to me. Honestly it would be great if FFG made a character builder program like Wizards. It contains a copy of all the cards you choose, right on the sheet.

Ribuk said: I really love the Game but the numbers of action cards is a big failure. Every Player should have the right to create his own carakter as he wants. Oops ic cant choos XY Strike because because someone choosed it beforeme. That is No saying yes to my player. That sounds like even if we printed in China we was to greedy to give every payer his own card. At least it should be possible to buy this cards for every player Honestly I find owning two sets of the cards is the happy middle of the road. I bought two core sets, this gives players a chance to pick up a second winning smile or whatever, I couldn't imagine 3 players wanting the same card and in fact I'd probably put my foot down about it, just to make the game more diverse but a second card in the group? I can see that.

UncleArkie said: There is a pamphlet in mine, it has a list of the cards, standups and so on in the box as well as short descriptions of the career item cards, new action cards and the SbVD along with a colophone for the credits. Mine too. I'm wondering if we should tell FFG to post it up on the website. Or post it over on the geek?

Kaptain O said: Wow, way to resort to ad hominem. Where did I say that I wanted to be kickass or ub0r or whatever? I am saying that if someone comes across an NPC swordmaster or Wardancer in game, I want them to think *wow* this guy is awesome, he is the pinnacle of his skill - I do not want to mess with him. Also if after playing an extended campaign a player is accepted to be a wardancer I want them to feel proud, to feel that they achieved something. If a swordmaster is only as good as any starting thug, soldier, mercenary then that removes alot of the mystique the class has - they become "just another career" rather than something special and I think that it is sad. There are no swordmaster only action cards (per RAW) anyone can learn the styles of the swordmaster or the wardancer which again to me takes something from the "specialness" of these amazing warriors. In my game I will reduce access to the special classes until later, and likely restrict the special actions to members (current or past) of the appropriate career. My story. Back in the 90s I bought Warhammer RPG when I was really into the table top battles game. Most of the guys I gamed with were rpg fans so I thought it would be a perfect fit. Turns out no one wanted to play it. Partly because, in the core book, there were no named "unit" guys from the table top game. I had to admit I really could see why they didn't want to play a farmer or merchant. They were so ingrained with the idea of those classes being weak and NPC ish, (From other RPGS) the whole project was met with disdain, thus I never did play it. So for me, if one player is a wardancer, then I can explain to that player, that they are special without the need to map out their careers. Not to mention the game is brutal and someone could die very easily before becoming what they really want to be. That said, I totally understand people that don't like this because they are preserving the feel of the setting. I must say one of the more refreshing things about being on these forums is that there's not always a player first attitude (yeah play whatever you like) like some other RPGs, in fact, preserving the STORY and SETTING is very important around here and after years of other RPGs where the player group is made up of 5 character that don't make sense in a party, it's nice to see that concern.

Gilead te tuin lothain said: It should also be said that while Elves must master each Lore of magic before going onto learning High Magic, there is nothing within the background that says an Elf cannot use other Lores. High Magic is after all the blending and mixing of the Winds of Magic, not the use of more than one Lore, as the blending of the Winds produces spells of greater power and effect. So for example, while the background says that the Lore of Fire is 'mastered' first, it does not suggest that an Elf does not know spells from other Lores. WFB of course represents Elven Mages as either using High Magic or a specific Lore, but then it could be that an Elf must attune themselves to either a single Wind of Magic or the techinque for using all in combination (High Magic), thus explaing why an Elf uses a single Lore. So basically there is no reason for why an Elf Mage could not switch between the various Lores, purchasing new spells from different Lores. The question is how many spells must they know in a single Lore before it is considered to be mastered? yeah. Hopefully it will all get addressed soon. For now, my solution is working, although I can see why it's not for everyone.

HedgeWizard said: Sinister said: If the crit doesn't apply to combat around here, I just add the severity in misfortune dice to the next attack made by the monster. It doesn't kill the monster early then, it just give the heroes a break for a round. This is exactly how I do it too! Hedge, From all the stuff we do alike on house rules, I'm begining to think we are related. That or insane minds think alike.

This is what I went with Sam Bugman (my campaign is set in mordhiem times) is dealing with having the popularity of bugman's brew take off. As such he's had to ramp up production 100%. In order to do this he needed a new cooling system for his boiler. He's decided (against better judgement and in favor of increased profit) to power it with warpstone. The pcs are hired to find some missing equipment, sam thinks the workers may be stealing. During the night one of the workers is killed. This worker was having an affair with another dwarf employee's sister, meanwhile another one of the employees is blackmailing the dead dwarf about the affair. These are all red herrings as to what's happening however, the truth is skaven have entered the brewery in search of the warpstone but they need tools to break into the machinary to get it. They killed the worker, and on night 2 they kill the engineer at the brewery and steal his drill. They heroes must stop the skaven.

If the crit doesn't apply to combat around here, I just add the severity in misfortune dice to the next attack made by the monster. It doesn't kill the monster early then, it just give the heroes a break for a round.

HedgeWizard said: I tend to award fortune points when the players do something creative, or come up with a interesting scheme to solve whatever problem lies in front of them. In combat, they may have devised some tactical plan that will aid their defeating their enemies. I tend to award fortune dice for external factors that affect the dice roll (perhaps the NPC is distracted when the PC is sneaking up for example, or they do have the higher ground bonus in combat). That's how I roll.

Kaptain O said: Subject is pretty clear, do you let your players know, either by explicitly stating it or by describing them in a certain manner, that a certain 3 (or 4) npc's in the encounter are "henchmen" and subject to all the limitations thereof? I hated the 1 hit point henchmen monsters in d&d4e because I always felt bad when a player used a big attack on the 1 hp guy and wasted it - but at the same time I hated the idea of telling them it since it seems so metagamed. At least henchmen compared to regular dudes in wfrp are less black/white so it's not so much of a mechanical problem. Well I think the difference is a henchman squad is going to be more than 1 so they will most likely get the idea where as 4E one minion "looks" like one regular monster.

I have a guy that wanted to play a high elf mage. I just charged him 5 Character Points, he took the apperentice but he could cast from all college (which right now means 3 I think). Bascially for 4 cps he has access to any college which I think simulates the elves better understanding of the winds of magic. After all in the fluff it makes a big deal out of the elves being able to use every "color". Granted the 5 CPs was a bit arbitary but I had to figure out a way to balance it with someone wanting to play a human one wind wizard. Since he got access to all colleges, he didn't seem to think that was unfair.

marneus21 said: I hated the flimsyness of the keepers, so I got some small (6"x9") manilla envelopes that serve just as well, if not better. The ones I got have the string closures, but the metal tab closures would work too. -Marneus I'm using large sandwhich baggies. Cards won't slip through them like the cardboard boxes.

Personally I ingore it. I told my players, this game is not about loot like some other fantasy games, so just don't go crazy and we won't have a problem, so far they haven't tried to carry more than weapons and armor and money.

I prefer the silly orcs and goblins just because it is different. The world is so grim and dark and the orcs provide a rather bluntly funny contrast with the way they talk and do things. I would go so far as to make them comic relief but they are the "fun" monsters my party likes.

Awesomeness said: I wondered if I could get a little help from the other GM's out there. What have you done to make interesting and exciting orc antagonists? It seems the the only time characters encounter greenskins of any kind it is in a very impersonal (and sort of cliche) manner. You know what I mean: an orc warband is on the Waaagh and is coming to destroy the city/town/etc., or maybe a powerful orc shaman has united several clans and they are coming to destroy the city... you get the point. How do you make encounters with greenskins memorable? Do you even use orcs as enemies in your campaigns? I have had a hard time including them in substantive ways. Maybe you all could share some of your experiences or ideas? I once had the characters run into snotlings in the slums of Nuln, accompanied by some vicious little squigs. I did once use orc undead instead of the regular human variety. I have just been thinking about some way to throw in a little variety. Any ideas are welcome. I used a bunch of orc one liners mentioned in another thread. My party loved it.

crimsonsun said: Sinister said: Say all you want about GM authority, it doesn't stop the power munchkins from trying. I play with many quality players that understand theme, but there's also the local store guys, who just want a reason to be a badass under any circumstances. Not had experence of this myself so i can sympathise with you, but you can hopefully excuse my lack of understanding. Eh it goes like this... The guy that makes a cultist for call of cthuhlu The guy that begs to play the magician in pendragon despite the fact that he pays for spells with months of magical sleep. The guy that wants to play a ratling in a game about human samurai in L5R The guy that wants to play a vampire in ravenloft. All choices that totally miss the point of the setting. I'm not saying the choice can't be interesting, but it's totally missing out on what the makers intented for the setting. Yet all are legal choices. Granted playing an orc would be a hoot, but not in a mixed party enviorment. What really astounds me is to find a thread like this one with so much support while people are angry at making the iron breaker and wardancer basic carreers. The power levels as starting out as skaven assassins, black orcs, and chaos mutants is a whole different ballgame. Evil is powerful in the world and I can't see anyone choosing to be a coachman after tasting what it's like to be a skaven assassin or all powerful choas warrior. Your stats are better, you can steal, muder and plunder at will, and you'll be blessed with dark powers. And if 2 of the 3 other players want to do that, I'm sure not picking dockhand. That's why I support an idea like this only if the company makes the decision, instead of saying "do what you want and let the GM sort it out", because then it's my fault I didn't let someone play the Lord Borak the Despoiler, ally of the rat catcher, a human mage, and the elves of athel loren. I shouldn't have to conjole and lay down the law forcing them to be something lessor, when they have that carrot dangling in front of them.

My players are going to meet up with some rich tavern owners looking to get some brew from bugman's brewery. While this isn't the focus point of the story I'd like to run a 1 to 3 day mini adventure at the brewery and it's surroundings. Anyone got any ideas for some side trek adventures at the brewery? It's operational in my timeline. Much Thanks.

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