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player641485

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  1. I just wanted to add that there is no doubling of killing fire for artillery, instead All artillery effects are increased by 1 in firepower.
  2. Well, in my rules, posted above, armor values are as follows (front / flank (inc. rear): Tiger I: 6/ 4 thick armor //// Panzer IV: 5 / 2 //// M4 Sherman: 4 / 3 Don't have the expansions, so haven't statted them out yet, but you can see that usually back armor is 2 less, but can be 3 or 1 if there's a historical reason for it. I just add half the defense of the target for combined fire per supporting unit. I'd do away with it entirely, but it's there as an option in case you need to do more in less actions, especially against units in the open.
  3. My rules have changed so much that I decided that a new thread is in order. These rules are much more in line with the original design and complexity of the game, and should be easy to add in to make the game more exciting and historical. Firing: All firing (NOT assaults)is counted as suppressive fire, with one important addition: rolling 2 or 3 hits also causes a casualty on the target unit. Combined Fire adds half of the defending unit’s defense dice per attacking unit. Medic: A medic does not grant cover, but allows a 4+ save against suffering a casualty from a fire action. Squad basing (Elites): Elite figures should be evenly split between squad bases. You may have 1 squad base with 1 more elite, and 1 with one less than the average. Pinned Units: Pinned units may be activated for a Concentrated Fire action at half firepower, or full firepower if an officer is present, as pinning is much more prevalent now. This means they have the same firepower as when being assaulted. Desperate Defenders now allows disrupted units to fire at half firepower instead. Losing an assault: Units that lose an assault suffer 1 automatic suppression hit. Defensive Fire: A fresh unit that is assaulted may fire defensive fire when the assaulting moves an adjacent hex. This fire is treated as killing fire, and only hits on a 6. Other fresh units in the hex may also support this fire with Combined Fire rules. Units performing defensive fire become fatigued. The assaulting unit may choose to abort. Basing Machine Guns and Mortars: Machine guns and mortars cannot be doubled up on a squad base. Machine Guns’ Rapid Op Fire: is limited as follows: Every time they use Rapid Opportunity Fire, roll a D6. If the result is 2 or more, it may stay in Overwatch. On a 1, the overwatch counter is turned over to the fatigued side. MG against armored vehicles: Machine guns only have firepower 1 against any vehicles with an armour value. Mortar smoke rounds: Mortars may now lay smoke in addition to firing normally. This is simply resolved by placing a smoke token on the target hex after if the mortar team manages at least one success with 2 dice, requiring 5+ at normal range and 6+ at long range. Mortars & Artillery: Mortars and artillery do not cause casualties when scoring 2 or 3 hits, unless the defending units are in woods, or the artillery card is listed as killing fire. Artillery cards with killing fire are doubled in firepower. Against vehicles, mortars and artillery halve their firepower and strike the rear armor. Units in entrenchments increase their cover value by 2 against mortars and artillery. Engineer Specialization: May spend 2 movement points to remove an entrenchment or tank traps, similar to Razor Wire. Also grants +2 firepower in assaults against vehicles. Anti-Tank Specialization: Works against pillboxes. Vehicle Facing & Armour: Heavy vehicles have a different armor value for front (the 3 front hexes) and flanks (the 3 rear hexes): Vehicles must face a hexside at the end of each move. Light Vehicles may only draw LOS through their front hexes. Armor values: Tiger I: 6/ 4 thick armor //// Panzer IV: 5 / 2 //// M4 Sherman: 4 / 3 Vehicles in assaults: You may assault hexes with heavy vehicles in them AND assault with vehicles.Vehicles use their normal armor in assaults, front or flank, depending on the attacker’s assault hex (except they always use their rear armor when assaulting), and their firepower is halved or reduced by two (if assaulted from the front). The opponent’s permission is required to allocate hits on vehicles, and they make armor rolls only against those hits. Attacks from supporting units cannot be allocated on vehicles, so roll them separately if necessary. Vehicles may not assault buildings or pillboxes. Hull Down: Heavy Vehicles on a higher level than the attacker gain +1 cover.
  4. Don't have the equipment needed ATM (not even a microphone!), I suppose I could see about getting those, if they don't cost too much.
  5. Decided to post these here as well: Firing: All firing is now counted as suppressive fire, with one important addition: rolling 2 or 3 hits also causes a casualty on the target unit. Terrain cover dice: as normal, except an entrenchment in the woods counts as a “trench”, with 4 cover dice / 2 if adjacent (they stack in the base game, this addition makes it easier to eliminate them up close and matches the trench rules in FotB). Units can affect any or all enemy units on the target hex with a cumulative -1 firepower penalty per additional target unit. Apply the same attack pool on all target units, while the targets roll defense dice separately. Combined Fire allows you to include an extra attacking unit in your firing action when performing a concentrated fire, but this now costs one command point and is resolved separately. Pinned Units: Pinned units may be activated for a Concentrated Fire action at half firepower, or full firepower if an officer is present, as pinning is much more prevalent now. This rule works out the same as normal assault rules. Desperate Defenders now allows disrupted units to fire at half firepower as well. Opportunity Fire (Overwatch) Now any unit can op fire, even those that are not designated to be in overwatch, with the following rules: - Fresh units may op fire, only against enemy movement, at close or normal range – but gets a +1 to the difficulty to hit (5-6 hit). They become fatigued as a result. - Fatigued units may op fire, only against enemy movement, at close range, but get both a +1 to the difficulty to hit, needing 5-6, and halve their firepower. - You may spend a command point to fire Op Fire at normal range, with the same modifiers as above. Units in Overwatch may now fire against enemy firing. The enemy unit is allowed to fully complete its fire action, and only afterwards can the overwatching units fire on it. Rapid Op fire from machine guns is not possible against enemy firing, only against enemy movement. Machine Guns, Mortars and Rapid Opportunity Fire Machine guns and Mortar Teams are considered as taking 3 holes on the squad base. Machine guns and mortars may thus only have 1 extra model in addition to the weapon team. However, the firepower of the Machine Gun unit is increased by 1 when it performs a concentrated attack or a non-rapid op fire attack. Machine Guns’ Rapid Op Fire is limited as follows: Every time they use Rapid Opportunity Fire, roll a D6. If the result is 2 or more, it may stay in Overwatch. There is a -1 to the roll if they do not have another regular or elite soldier figure in their squad. MG against armored vehicles: Machine guns only have firepower 1 against any vehicles with an armour value. Machine guns are not meant to punch through tank armour. Mortars may now lay smoke in addition to firing normally. To do so, a mortar must have a normal non-weapon team model in the same squad. This is simply resolved by placing a smoke token on the target hex after drift, instead of resolving an area attack against the hex. Air Bursts: applies only to unarmored units in woods when fired upon by mortars and artillery. The cover of the woods is reduced by 1. Foxholes: Applies to units in entrenchments (that are not in Woods!) when fired upon by mortars and artillery. Increase the cover value by 2. Specializations Engineer Specialization: May spend 2 movement points to remove an entrenchment or tank traps, similar to Razor Wire. Reduces any enemy cover by 2 in assaults (destroying an entrenchment if it does. Also grants +2 firepower in assaults against vehicles. May not dig entrenchments in the middle of the battle anymore. Anti-Tank Specialization: Reduces cover of pillboxes by 3 when shooting or assaulting with the anti-tank unit as the main attacker. Vehicle Rules: Light Vehicle Facing & Movement Light Vehicles too must be facing one of the six sides of the hex it occupies. Light Vehicles can only move into the hex they are facing, and they can turn up to two hex sides after each hex moved. Extra turns of up to two hex sides cost the vehicle 1 Movement point each, and can be done without restrictions. Vehicles can only fire at units in their front hexes, unless they are turreted. Reversing costs double the normal movement points for Light Vehicles. Heavy Vehicle Facing & Movement Heavy Vehicles too must be facing one of the six sides of the hex it occupies. Heavy Vehicles can only move into the hex they are facing, and turn one hex side after each hex moved for free. Extra turns cost the vehicle 1 Movement point each, and can be done without restrictions. Vehicles can only fire at units in their front hexes, unless they are turreted. Reversing the Heavy Vehicles initially costs an extra movement point (ie. 2 MP for the first hex in reverse) but is normal thereafter (ie. 1MP for each hex after the first). Vehicle Facing & Armour Heavy vehicles have a different armor value for front (the 3 front hexes) and flanks (the 3 rear hexes): Tiger I: 6/ 4 thick armor Panzer IV: 5 / 2 M4 Sherman: 4 / 3 There are no separate effects for “flanking” light vehicles. Bogging Down: Vehicles entering certain terrain run the risk of bogging down and being immediately marked as fatigued. Terrain and obstacles such as woods, rough ground, wire, entrenchments and streams may cause a vehicle to bog down. Vehicles check for bog when entering and exiting a hex. Some modifiers may apply to the bog check. Fully Tracked Vehicle: avoids bogging down on 2+ on 1D6 Half Tracked Vehicles: avoids bogging down on 3+ on 1D6 Wheeled Vehicles: avoids bogging down on 4+ on 1D6 Tank Traps: May setup in shallow water obstacles. Vehicles may not enter a hex containing tank traps. An engineer unit may remove a tank trap if it starts its turn in the hex with the tank trap. Unit is fatigued after removing the tank trap. Tank Traps may be removed by 3 or more Hits from Artillery – roll to damage the traps separately. Hull Down: Vehicles on a higher level than the attacker gain +1 cover. Assaulting Vehicles (And assaulting with vehicles!) You may now assault hexes with heavy vehicles in them AND assault with vehicles themselves, too! Vehicles in assaults use their armor against attacks as normal, except they use their rear armor due to the danger of assaulting with tanks, and their firepower is reduced by two (before possible halving for supporting). Vehicles that are assaulted from a flank/rear position also halve their firepower after the reduction of -2! You must have your opponent’s permission to allocate hits on vehicles, and they make armor rolls only against those hits. Vehicles may not assault buildings or pillboxes. Vehicles that assault other terrain types must test for bogging down – if they fail, they cannot participate in or start an assault.
  6. Stat conversion doesn't also seem so straightforward, at least not when it comes to WS and BS training - giving anyone with a 40+ WS certainly isn't right if you go by official 3rd edition NPCs and monsters.
  7. Nice work. I have to ask though, what is an "intelligence" as it refers to a specialization? Do you mean like an intelligence operative, ie. agent?
  8. May I ask where these official variant rules can be found? I've been thinking about finding a bit more use for unused successes, but not sure if I'd go beyond extra Pierce (that only affects armour), and the effects shouldn't be greater than what is normally gained from cards,
  9. I remember commentary on the Gathering Storm expected a 3-man party, one of which would be a combat specialist. I'd assume that'd be the expectation in the other modules as well - and the rulebook's examples always show such a 3-man party as well. I assume you scaled things up due to your doubled party size for combat?
  10. Can you name any of the published adventures for outstanding lethality? I'm running them all. Already at the beginning of Eye to Eye, the players alerted the ambush in advance, were not able to get support from the lodge's crossbows, and fought the beastmen to the bitter end (even though I did place the Lodge location card at Extreme range from them as a cue for a possible withdrawal). Funny thing was, the party was all combatants, with a dwarven dockworker, a Wardancer and a Bright Wizard, but in the end only the dockworker was left standing quite injured. Methinks I'll have to limit my aggressiveness (and use of the A/C/E pools, I often went "all out") a bit (though I did admit I ran the other group of Beastmen full pelt to the party with max. fatigue (wounds) and the use of the bestial roar card to boost an ungor group to combat…my bad.)
  11. I could work with a rename to Waywatcher/Wardancer/Swordmaster Apprentice, and renaming the Ironbreaker the Shieldbreaker (from 2nd, I guess a sort of an Ironbreaker prospect). I'd give the Ironbreaker the Dwarf-Forged Armour instead of Gromril Armour (helps at least a bit with the soak and defense woes, but more importantly the lore aspect). As a side note, I'd be inclined to let extra unused successes count as extra levels of Pierce, along with hindrances for wearing armour (permanent fatigue, misfortune dice as appropriate etc.)
  12. Wouldn't it make more sense to match difficulty descriptor with difficulty descriptor and fill in the gaps with Misfortune dice? I don't know why you'd want to go back to the old 30% chance for a trained professional to succeed on an average task thing. It was simply the weakest part of WFRP 1 and 2 design. WFRP2 Trained -> WFRP3 Trained Conversion Very Easy (+30%) -> 1 Misfortune Easy (+20% -> Easy (1d) Routine (+10%) -> Easy (1d) + 1 Misfortune Average (0%) -> Average (2d) Challenging (-10%) -> Average (2d) +1 Misfortune Hard (-20%) -> Hard (3d) Very Hard (-30%) -> Daunting (4d) (or just Hard (3d) + 1 Misfortune, but here might be a good place to start ramping the difficulty a bit more)
  13. Heh, Denied, that might be reverse psychology, but it works for me! I don't know if I should even deign Jug's accusation of bullying and thought-suppressing with a response, because now it just seems like provoking again… I'm not going to go there. But in any case, we haven't seen anything about the rules itself for a while now, and nobody profits from an ad hominem "argument", if you can call it from that. If anyone has any new insights to add, feel free, but at least I'm bored with the schoolyard arguments. We have enough of a consensus. If FFG hasn't heard from us by now, they never will.
  14. thejughead said: Next time try not to suppress thoughts or bully people and you might find a meaningful discussion. Isn't this a distinct case of the pot calling the kettle black and all that?
  15. The unsurprising news is that the more "shut up, stop talking, shove off" comments there are, the longer the discussion will continue. As I can't believe anyone wouldn't actually know that, I'm led to no other conclusion but that some people just want to fan the flames for their own sake. My messages haven't really been about trashing the game for a while, I'm mostly trying to end the discussion peacefully and I might just do so after this. You are right that only sales will create a new edition of the game, and only after a number of years at that. FFG might have got the message that there are people interested in a revision beyond those that already bought the first edition, but it's also possible that fighting and bad attitudes here mask all that. What we could do, instead, is to create a thread where this message is conveyed, whether it's started by Gimp, me, or anyone, and the only answers allowed would be "/sign"….but before that happens, a discussion thread like this will have to do.
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