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SpawnoChaos

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Everything posted by SpawnoChaos

  1. They wear similar garb to what the Ultramarines wear, as per the Blood Angels novels.
  2. N0-1_H3r3 said: SpawnoChaos said: I'm confused. That's actually what I said. It really isn't. It might be what you meant, but the actual words in the post reference the act of playing a 2,000 point game of 40k... which is utterly irrelevant from a background perspective. From a background perspective, a turn of Epic: Armageddon represents approximately fifteen minutes of combat - that has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of time it takes to actually play out that turn, and the arbitrary values (points costs) attributed to the forces involved are completely irrelevant here. Within a single turn of Epic, formations can engage in assaults, combining close combat and firefights into an event roughly equivalent in scale and brutality to an average game of 40k. Consequently, a normal 6-turn game of 40k can be assumed to represent about 15 minutes of combat - again regardless of how long it may take to play such a game - which means that each turn represents about two and a half minutes. This is absolutely no different to the way that a single round in Deathwatch represents about 5 seconds of action (page 234 of the rulebook), yet will take much longer to actually play out. It's the difference between time "in-game" or "in-character" (the time that passes for the characters involved) compared to real time as experienced by the players. Did I somehow miss in the rules where it states how long a typical engagement in the 40K TT actually represents "in game time"? Last I checked these battles / skirmishes had no "in game" time reference.
  3. N0-1_H3r3 said: SpawnoChaos said: borithan said: Personally I have taken a full 6 turn 40k game to be about 15-30 minutes. That would make each turn about 2.5 to 3 minutes. While I do not wish to enter this conversation heavily, I would like to point out that this value is completely relative. The battles I used to have where each side has 2,000 points, and was the standard battle size for my groups, ended up taking several hours to get to 6 turns. A single turn could last 20 minutes for each participant. Umm... but the post you quoted has nothing to do with how long it takes to play a 2,000 point game of 40k, but rather with how long a single turn in a game of 40k represents in 'game time' I'm confused. That's actually what I said. His entire game of 40k, 6 turns, took 15-30 minutes. He factored that each "turn" could therefore be considered 2.5-3 minutes. I said that my entire game of 40K, 6 turns, took several hours. The factored time per "turn" could therefore be considered 20 minutes or more. My conclusion was that the values are all relative and should not be used as a factor for turn time.
  4. borithan said: Personally I have taken a full 6 turn 40k game to be about 15-30 minutes. That would make each turn about 2.5 to 3 minutes. While I do not wish to enter this conversation heavily, I would like to point out that this value is completely relative. The battles I used to have where each side has 2,000 points, and was the standard battle size for my groups, ended up taking several hours to get to 6 turns. A single turn could last 20 minutes for each participant.
  5. Luddite said: MILLANDSON said: Basically, indulgence was paid to the Church in order for someone to get out of having to perform penance in order to be absolved. It could be any sin really, though for the nobility I'd imagine stuff like murder, blackmail, fraud, anything like that that Thanks for the link Milly...i was aware of the ndulgence system and indeed its use in the growth of the secular power of the Catholic church - an interesting parallel for the Ministorum perhaps. However, its the definition of sin we've still yet to see, that seriously compromises roleplaying within 40k. You for example say murder is a sin in 40k. is it? Why? Surely in the grim darkness of the far future where there is only war and twhere you are one amongst countless trillions and will not be missed etc., why is killing and indeed murder a SIN? Why is blackmail a sin? Fraud a sin? 'Anything like that...'? What's that then? I would refer you to the excellent Book of Judgement on the Dark Reign Forums. http://darkreign40k.com/drjoomla/index.php/component/docman/cat_view/43-gaming-aids?orderby=dmdate_published&start=40 While not considered a "canon" source, it's better than anything else that I've come across over the years.
  6. Jackal_Strain said: My solution for my group is to up the damage of all plasma weapons by 1d10. I've also ruled that maximum mode on plasmaguns and pistols can only be used with single shots. This means that a plasmagun will fire with 2d10+9; Pen 8 with single or semi-auto modes normally and 3d10+9; Pen 10, but only singel fire on maximum mode. I believe this puts them above the bolter in damagedealing capability nicely, but doesnt overshadow the bolter in every way. The bolter is still a more versatile weapon. I'm contemplating giving the plasma cannon blast 3 on standard, so that it has blast 5 on maximal mode. This might make it more desirable compared to a heavy bolter, but still not stealing the heavy bolters thunder. This sounds the best so far from what I've read. Makes them lethal, but not completely overshadowing the bolter. The advantage the bolter has over plasma is still ROF, which makes up for the lesser damage. It almost feels right. I'd have to playtest to find out.
  7. As someone who mostly GM's for Deathwatch now, I have to ask: Can the new sisters stand next to the Astartes in battle now that this new book is out? Or are they still a pale shadow of their brothers in combat, despite the new things added in this book?
  8. ak-73 said: Decessor said: I can see what you're doing there, and it would make plasma a better option for more skilled Space Marines. Personally, I'm in favour of upping the damage and/or penetration of plasma and melta weapons. By background, they're incredibly lethal. By DW rules, they're marginally better than bolt weapons. This seems...odd. Has anyone done much playtesting with all these suggested plasma/melta rule changes? No but I suggest once more a thread I have created in the House Rules section about making the weapons more like in the 40K TT. Alex Regardless of whether you want to make them more like Table-top (Which I don't believe is an accurate representation of the setting) or the novels (which I believe are the accurate assessment of the setting) plasma weapons in both are terribly lethal. So are melta weapons. The real question should be this: Since a plasma weapon and a boltgun have the same firing modes in the Tabletop game and in the fluff, why doesn't the plasma gun / pistol match the Boltgun / pistol in their ROF? If it did, then I'm sure that this issue would never have existed amongst us players.
  9. Face Eater said: N0-1_H3r3 said: It's all a matter of perspective. I'm, personally, not trying to keep the bad guys alive - any creature I put into a combat encounter is going to die sooner or later. That's kind of the point. What I'm doing, rather, is trying to build a combat encounter that's interesting and challenging. Quite, but how interesting is yet another encounter that end's with and all auto fired at the boss and it died because it's a huge dodgeless target that couldn't hide behind a wall of tyranid warriors. I mean, yes, I wouldn't be looking to have it kill the party while I laugh, but I want them to think it will kill them. Is it too much to ask that they maybe have to vary their weapons or tactics. Try and peel off some guards first or something, is it too much to ask that maybe a monster that was beyond 4 starting marines was put in? Such an enemy does already exist... but it may underwhelm you in it's simplicity: Behold! I give you... The 500 Magnitude Hormagaunt Horde. Deadly. Fearless. Swarming. Ruthless. Unrelenting. A swarm of the worst kind. Your players have 2 options. Fight and die. Run and escape to fight another day. The Emperor's finest do not sell their lives easily; each knows when and where to give their lives as necessary. Each understands their individual importance to the Imperium as a whole. Pride and glory will not be lost on them when they choose to withdraw in the face of such adversity, if only for a time to regroup and fight again another day.
  10. ak-73 said: Ngel said: ak-73 said: Ngel said: After running a few sessions with space marines, including the 1st adventure in the book, i found out that there are vast differences in potential. Remember in the 1st adventure that a Hive Tyrant should appear to scare off the marines? And to be used only for that? Guess what. My tyrant died in actually one and half round after being spotted by a single devastator marine armed with the exact standard starting gear given in the book at a range of 600m. There are ways around it but the enemies as presented in the book are nowhere near challenging. The only challenging thing so far is either a massive horde (at 300+ units) or single stealth units (like the lictor) that have high damage output. Anything else that can be spotted, dies in milliseconds. It sounds like you use the original DW Righteous Fury rule. Almost nobody here does that because it is insane. If do you use it presently, I suggest you either use the DH RF rules of re-rolling only one natural 10 die and adding the result, re-rolling further until you don't roll a natural 10 anymore or you do that with all damage dice that are natural 10s (which is what I do). Other than that, yes, even Hive Tyrants can be killed with some ease. In general, fights against Master-class enemies are of the type that you kill them in 1 or 2 rounds or else they will start to kill marines (if they are within the range of the master-class enemy). These combats tend to be short and brutal, not the epic grinds that you might be familiar with from other RPGs, like fighting a Dragon, etc. As such placing a Hive Tyrant at 600m is putting him at a serious disadvantage. Otoh, it's a matter of staging. If the Devastator Marine is about to get charged by 1 or 2 shrikes from the horde, he won't be focussing his fire at a 600m distant tyrant, trust me. And if he does, he deserves getting charged by mutiple shrikes. Alex I didnt even begin to take into account the Righteous fury of which i allow only one 10 to be rerolled once in any given roll (unless its truly dramatic, 2, 3 or more tens in killing something and im putting you on your way to sainthood). On a 3d10+12 (Tearing bolter and Mighty Shot) the average hit is 22 with pen of 6. The lovely tyrant reduces 17 of that. An average hit is therefor somewhere in the area of half the creature's wounds (assuming 10 hits more on that later). That comes from 1 marine only and that in my books is ridiculously easy and totally unacceptable. 2 points here worth mentioning here. First my kill-team's composition: 1 tactical, 1 librarian, 1 assault, 1 apothecary, 2 devastators (so you can understand that only buffing or multiplying enemies seems to have any effect) and secondly the average hits are usually higher than a 22, more around the area of 30. Also the attack bonuses stack too high (in my case +30 from size, +10 from oath,+20 from squad mode, +20 from full auto -20 from distance and WS in the 60s neighborhood) and really lots of hits are attainable. As i stated before, that comes from the one of the 2 devastators, so yeah the enemies are weak when compared to marines. 2 Devastators can be tough, yes. In that case you might have to increase the opposition also... But anyway... let's recalculate it: HT has a soak of 15+10. Against it in your case 2D10+12 Tearing, Pen 6. I would say that the damage roll results on average in about 26 points of damage. Which would mean 7 points getting through per hit. That's a lot. 2 points to be made: a) You may want to consider my house rules here www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp They are not fully play-tested but should alleviate the problem a bit b) A Hive Tyrant is never alone, he's usually surrounded by hordes of smaller creatures. Which means that at the very minimum all shots hitting the legs should hit a horde instead (or, depending on his entourage, only the upper half (01-50 on hit table) is exposed or only the head). Not only that, he can order shrikes (again plural) and similar to cover his advance with their bodies. Good luck, Devs. I would say that with the HB damage reduced by 2 and ROF limited, a Devastator won't do on average more than 5 hits on the Tyrant for 5 pts on average per which makes for 25 pts of Damage per attack. That's okay. It does enough damage to make for an interesting fight as the hordes will try to protect their leader and the Devs try to maneuever to get a clear shot. But other that that your right. FFG in general didn't pay enough attention to the first and foremost rule of rpg system designers: beware of allowing players to stack to many bonuses; err on the side of conservativism. But I don't really blame them here. It's easy to forget about that and get carried away by an ability on its own. Hope this helps. Alex Quoted for "truthiness" I think a lot of GM's are afraid to overwhelm their players with massive amounts of enemies; I believe this to be a caution brought about by other gaming systems whereby doing so would spell certain doom for the entire party. Believe me, I've tried running other games with higher level characters with little success (Epic Levels in D&D 3.5 anyone???). Deathwatch does a stupendous job of allowing the GM to fling MANY enemies at the PC's and allow the PC's to take those attacks in stride. That Hive Tyrant would never be encountered alone; she would at least have her tyrant guardians with her with possibly a couple of gaunt Hordes as well. When you provide cover for the Hive Tyrant, you begin to realize that your 2 Dev's may not have ENOUGH firepower to finish the job before Space Marines start to die.
  11. DrgnScorpion said: Storm of Iron only doubles teh Magnitude damage. So if a space marine does 15 he only does normally 1 magnitude. Storm of Iron would make that 2. As long as you damage a Horde, you do 1 Magnitude of damage to it, per hit. You don't have to do 15 damage... that was just an example. Storm of Iron does double the end total for magnitude damage. If you would have done 12 magnitude total, then you actually did 24.
  12. Chronomaniac Timewarper said: In the description of rite of pure thought it states that the GM should replace any mental disorders that does no longer apply with new ones of equal severity. But what too do with the curses? The point of the "rite" is that the TM no longer have any feelings or emotions and all curses are based in in emotions, pride, anger, paranoia and more. The only thing i can think of is that the TM's logic get flawed. Your thoughts? Think of the movie I Robot; the computer that controlled the robots came to the logical conclusion that all humans are a threat to themselves, and therefore must be kept safe from each other and themselves... even if by forceful restraint. This evolved from the notion that no harm can come to a human being. See how a Primarch's Curse could still work?
  13. If you are only using 1 Horde per encounter that has Hordes... you're doing it wrong. Try running with 4-5 Hordes at a time. This way, they can "waste" all of their frag grenades if they want to... or, they could save them for a more useful situation.
  14. You can always unnerve your players by making it related to Chaos... works every time.
  15. Gantz the slaughterer said: anyone knows if the deathwatch use the double magazine for the requiem??? U can see here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440272a&prodId=prod1560133 Actually, with Deathwatch if you have a bolter with a fire selector, you automatically have 3 clips of ammo inserted in the gun. So really, you have a triple magazine.
  16. ak-73 said: As for xenos, I think few people would have had a problem if it was baby daemons (because daemons are evil by nature). However the belief that all xenos are evil by nature too is widespread. However dishonourable, if you let them live, they may eventually turn into a viable threat or perhaps killing innocent human beings who can't defend themselves. 40K is different in that regard to many game worlds - it is xenocidal by nature. The only mitigating factor is that the PCs are in the Deathwatch and the Deathwatch not only eradicates xenos, it at times cuts deals with them too. Alex I would agree with this line of thinking... and I would add my own twist: Corruption points for those that killed a defenseless living being, xenos or not. That smacks of Chaos, the wanton killing of innocents for no other reason than hatred. Should the xenos decide to take up arms against Humanity in the future, then they will get whats coming to them... not before then. Some could argue, and at times I would agree with them depending on the circumstance, that no xenos is ever defenseless. In this case though, they are clearly defenseless and probably have no idea as to what they are, who the space marines are, why they killed mom and dad, and now why they are trying to kill them. In this instance, I believe the proper and honorable thing for a Space Marine to do is eliminate the immediate threat. Kill those fighting them, and spare those that run... or in this case, that can't even speak. "Suffer not the alien to live" is reserved for those that are a clear threat. There are even Ordo Xenos Inquisitors that work closely with xenos to accomplish mutual goals. Of course, it really depends on the Inquisitor in question. I would not punish the Black Templar for following his own chapters belief; I would punish him instead for going against the cohesion of his squad by still firing even as they tried to stop him from doing just that. The squad would have their cohesion reduced by "x" amount for the next 3 missions. I would punish the Ultramarine player for shooting a krak missile at him instead of just socking him in the face. He would have to pray for forgiveness at letting his anger get the best of his combat demeanor, spend some time with a chaplain, and not be allowed to take any wargear that was not his standard issue as a sign of repenting for the next "x" amount of missions.
  17. Davian said: Thank you all for your advice! Just to clarify something though: with the whole "Eldar manipulating the tyranids" thing, I was referring to them managing to divert their course, not control them directly, and obviously that wouldn't be done through negotiation. Also, a new question (though feel free to still answer the old ones): the artifact I mentioned. It's really just meant to be a McGuffin, but since I'll need an explanation are there any ideas of what kind of artifact would have such great importance? An old abandoned entrance into the Eldar webway.
  18. My group actually stays in squad mode rather regularly. It has saved them several times now. Being able to switch between abilities and use different tactics adds a new dimension to the combat system that was not present in the prior two iterations of the setting.
  19. Charmander said: Gas on the fire, I know, but isn't firing in burst mode a full round action? And most of the Two Weapon talents specifically talk about being able to fire pistol class weapons on full auto. Simple rule is to say sure you can dual wield the bolt guns, but you can only autofire with one of them. Alternately, and equally simple, is to refuse to issue a second bolter to the marine that wants it. Finally, just tell your players what Radomo said, and that dual wielding bolters on full auto is just dumb. ... but possible.
  20. Also take note that Smite has an area effect to it, so it could hit multiple Hordes in the area (area determined by the Effective Psy rating).
  21. pee said: horde take 3 hits in melee from one standrad attack and atempts to doge. how does it work? succes and all 3 are negated or just one per degree of succes... or what? thanx pee said: horde take 3 hits in melee from one standrad attack and atempts to doge. how does it work? succes and all 3 are negated or just one per degree of succes... or what? thanx I'm not sure how you manged to hit a horde for 3 magnitude damage (assumption?) with a single standard attack. It would be: 1 for the attack itself 1 for a power weapon (possibly) 1D10 for a charge with an assault marine specialized in killing hordes That combined could equal 3.. but I'd need more details about the attack. To answer your question more directly, Hordes cannot dodge or parry. Should you allow them to do so, a single dodge test would negate all magnitude damage from a single attack roll.
  22. My villain is actually an Alpha Legion space marine. He is going to be pulling the strings behind most of the plots that they encounter. What's even better, is that they have already met and captured him for interrogation. When they get back from their latest mission, they're going to discover that he escaped. They had a hard time deciding to capture him in the first place... once they discover his escape, they'll be livid.
  23. Initially I was just awarding the players XP based on when they would finish a mission and return to the Watch Fortress. This, unfortunately, led to only gaining new abilities once every 2-3 sessions... which I felt was rather slow given that the XP would only total around 1,500. They have just reached Rank 3 with around 3 months of actual gameplay (getting together once a week for around 5-7 hours a session). I am now awarding 500 XP per session, regardless of whether or not they have completed the mission in it's entirety. This will help the feel that no matter what happened that session, there is always room for character growth.
  24. Sister Callidia said: I think that such is intentional. Sci Fi has always pictured the lasgun/phasor/blaster as a slow firing weapon that says pew pew or a similar sound. Only barbarians use rapid firing weapons that say Dakkadakkadakka. So the blame is on many years of literature saying Lasguns do not use rapid fire. That and the fact that autofire is so awfully effective in this game. While I would agree with your assessment, in 40K there are many novels / examples that would suggest otherwise. Take the Gaunt's Ghosts novels as a huge contributor to this. If you want to reference the TT game (which is by no means an accurate representation of the RPG game or the fluff) lasguns do have rapid fire just like a boltgun does. I was just surprised to find the inferior autogun as having this mode and not the lasgun. I also have a huge IG TT army that I played with for the last 15 years... and despite rules changes and new codices for them... the lasgun has always had the ability to fire on fully automatic. After all... how else do you expect the IG to hit anything? Here is another example from the fluff to support my confusion about the matter: Specifications of the Cadia Pattern Lasgun (as per The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, Damocles Gulf Edition) Service designation: Standard M-G short pattern lasgun/lasrifle Weight: 2.3kg Length: 900mm Magazine type: 19 megathule range (rechargable) Type of fire: Single shot or fully automatic Rate of fire (cyclic): 220 shots per minute Shot intensity: low to high Sights: adjustable, back and front sights with optional laser sight/integral optics According to the The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, the book that ALL IG soldiers are required to carry with them at all times, the gun doesn't even have a semi-automatic mode of fire. In the RPG, I would simply suggest moving the ROF around. Instead of S / 3 / - I would instead recommend S / - / 3 just to keep things consistent.
  25. Delahunt said: SpawnoChaos said: Delahunt said: Alternatively, give all your NPCs the touched by fate trait, and you will eventually do it right back. The problem there is that most Deathwatch players do not have upward of 80 wounds to survive such an attack. Given the sheer amount of damage rolls that a Horde can toss out there, that would lead to a TPK in short order. True, but righteous fury does that. 40k is very much the epitome of an "anyone can kill anyone" type universe. Even with the DH version of RF you can get 8-9 righteous furies on one attack, trust me I've done it. Giving the enemies RFs as well makes it even, and will keep players respecting what happens when even a mob of peasants can take down a Space Marine if they're REALLY lucky. While I can respect the notion, it's no longer a matter of "luck" when you deal with the amount of attacks that's thrown at them from a single Horde. They are going to be shot/stabbed to death in short order. It's a matter of time. I can't tell you how many times I've rolled multiple 10's on the damage dice from a single horde with their allocated shots. If they were all RF, my party that I DM for would be dead 5x over. I can respect "luck" when it happens. This is no longer a matter of simple "luck" using this method.
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