Jaysin1414
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Posts posted by Jaysin1414
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...how tough do you think it would be for a reasonably smart, medium-skilled GM to convert 2e material to work with 3e?
I'm by no means the best GM in the world, nor am I the smartest guy in my hometown - much less the world...but I did, in the last 6 months, pick up just about every 2e book there is.
Can I still use most of 'em with minimal fuss?
* minimal fuss meaning, can I use most of the fluff on-the-fly, and can I convert NPCs and Monsters with little mathwork and still capture their 'essence'? I'm not looking for an exact skill-for-skill, wound point-for-wound point conversion... just something that's close enough so that the average observer (or one of my players) will sit back after an encounter and feel as though they're the 'same'.
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My apologies to all involved.
I expect that there will be negative reviews of the system (heck, I expect that I won't like everything as-written). To me, it seemed like there were some inconsistencies with the tale as told... but I went too far.
Won't happen again...
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....and here is the OP over on the Savage Worlds boards as of November 10, 2009. Just a few days before HE supposedly ran the demo:
lets see here....in no particular order:
1: Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd edition ( loved the clean up they did to 2nd ed. not a big fan of the new upcoming 3rd ed.)
2: Fate 3rd (don't like being tied to much to one single setting like Spirit of the Century but I love the re-visualized mechanics)
3: Earthdawn (so many fond memories from years gone by and it will always have a special place in my mind)
4: Classic Deadlands (it's technically not a Savage product but it's what got me to fall in love with Pinnacle in the first place)
5: Shadowrun (I've always liked the cyberpunk genre, but came back to fantasy gaming from time to time. It just seemed like a perfect fit)
His post can be found (it's on the 4th page) of the SW boards (just so folks don't think I'm putting words in his mouth):
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24874&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
I'd be all for FFG deleting this thread as the OP had NO interest in running 3e with any sense of fairness or even wanting the system to succeed (if he even ran the demo at all).
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Ok then, here is the OP reporting his experience with the game and his system of choice:
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=261961&highlight=#261961
I especially like this quote:
"Yeah it is too bad. I really wanted to like this game but sadly after playing SW for so long a few other games just become lackluster. Not to mention as of late if even the slightest ill word is spoken of the FFG communities beloved new game they jump all over you and start making wild accusations that your a bad GM and that your doing it all wrong. Oh well, I was probably just gonna savage it anyway."
I'm actually surprised that a Savage Worlds fan would be so hostile to another game. I actually pictured him being a 4e guy (my apologies to 4e fans out there - teaches me not to stereotype). To be honest, a Savage might have an issue with 3e, because SW lives for minis and terrain, and 3e has neither (out of the box). 'Splains much.
What the hell does he mean 'as of late' these forums have become hostile. He registered YESTERDAY!!!
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While I never thought that he might be RPGPundit, when I first read his list of complaints about the system, the list read exactly like the negative posts one can find over at RPGNet.
When he followed up with 'Badwrongfun' in a later posting (used abundantly over at RPGnet), that was the surefire giveaway that he's much more interested in debating the merits of 3e than orchestrating a well-run demo.
What do we know for sure about his post?
1) Apparently he ran the demo on 11/11 or 11/12. ALL of the promotional material says the demo is being run on 11/13 thru 11/15. If nothing else, he fails reading comprehension big time. Any group motivated to play WFRP 3e would have known that the demo wasn't being run on 11/11 or 11/12. If he ran a game with a pick-up group of available players in the store - then OF COURSE you're going to get mixed reactions. If I'm in my local FLGS and they randomly decide to run a DnD 4e demo (2 days before the scheduled and promoted day of the event) and ask me if I want to try it out, my reaction would be similar to what he said his players reacted. Chances are I was in the store for a purpose OTHER than playing the demo. Heck, that's not for another few days, amiright? He then sorta covers himself stating that he wanted to run the game for new players. WTF? Isn't your job as a GM to run the game to the best of your ability and make the game enjoyable for the players?
2) He has never before posted on the FFG forums (he registered on 11/12), and decided to use the flame-worthy title of Cynicalmisfit. While it's entirely possible that he's being completely honest, the question begs: If you haven't taken the time to follow the game, ask questions about the game (necessitating a forum registration - which he didn't do), or bother to correspond with the designers of the game to ensure a good play experience....WHY RUN THE GAME?
3) His tale has some interesting contradictions. There was no interest in the game, but there wasn't enough cards for players that wanted to join? WTF?!?!
4) Never before has he heard of stores being charged $40 for a demo - the store is out $40...blah, blah, blah. Is he the store owner? If he is the store owner or an employee - why didn't he use the promotional materials here on this site which all pointed to 11/13 to 11/15, instead of jumping the gun with whatever shoppers were in the store? If he's not the store owner, why is he concerned about $40 coming out of the store's inventory budget? I'm more than happy to buy it off of him for $40 plus S/H. Just send me a PM...
Who knows, maybe this guy is legit. However, It seems too much like someone throwing out a story that favors their own personal opinion so he can reference it somewhere else and point to it, validating his own opinion. Like he's over on (name of a game website with players that would hate 3e).com right now under his 'regular' name posting about how there's some guy over on the official boards that ran the demo and it sucked.
Seems like a sock-puppet to me...
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Varnias Tybalt said:
]N[ said:
And it boils down to the frustration with the Scum's actions (both in chacacter and out). Out of character reasons, I think, were very slim chances of survival against the servitor and fear of losing a Fate point (which he has only 2 left). The thing is, that his presence in the fight could have made a difference, needless to say we were very pissed at him.
So, what do you think would reasonable reaction for such actions be?
Well he plays a scum, what did you expect? They are called scum for a reason you know, and it's not because of their noble code of honor or their supreme willingness to fight to the death.
The way I see it, he played his character in an appropriate manner. If a scum finds himself against overwhelming odds and has the opportunity to escape, then he would do just that.
As for out of character: You're doing the wrong thing if you get emotionally involved. It's just a game after all, and it's a game about playing a fictional character that isn't you. So it would be extremely childish to hold the player responsible in real life for what his fictional character does in a fictional setting. It's like when you're a kid playing army with toy guns, and getting angry for real at someone just because they "shoot" you.
Pretty much this, exactly.
It sounds like he was playing the role correctly - even if the result was painful for the rest of the group. I would think that in future situations your characters should do something to assure that his character helps out... I dunno, put someone at the exit with instructions to shoot anyone trying to flee the scene - or something like that.
As far as out-of-character ways to deal with him. Let it go. Your GM has plenty of new and interesting plot ideas (I'm sure) after this encounter and it should lead to plenty of fantastic scenarios from here on out. Roll with it...
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Preferably North County (Oceanside, Vista, Carlsbad, Leucadia, Del Mar, Encinitas, Escondido, Poway, etc).
If this is the wrong forum to inquire, please forgive me and delete.
Also interested in WFRP (2e/3e) if there's more local interest in that game.
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1) Yes. I was gifted the Core book to provide more info for our 2e game.
2) YES! YES! YES! I own 2 copies of the core book, and practically every other book except about 5 (Shades of Empire, Forges of Nuln...) I just got Realm of the Ice Queen in the mail today (bought for cover price, so I was ecstatic, considering the ebay/Amazon prices nowadays).
3) Yes! Pre-ordered. I will likely convert to this game outright if it works as a system, or merge with 2e where it makes sense and play a home-brewed 2.5 edition.
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PzVIE said:
Sunatet, if you use it, be sure to mention me in the credits
BTW, thanks for that incredible calendar, dude!
Seconded.
Your calendar is awesome! Thanks for such a easy & useful tool!
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I'm firmly in the 'can't wait for this game to come out - already preordered it' camp, but I find it odd that we've gotten very little information regarding combat thus far. I know combat isn't the end-all be-all in a Warhammer campaign, but it would certainly be nice to get an idea of how it works...
...I think to rectify this situation, FFG should release a video of a sample session. That or a demo copy to yours truly to test it out for everyone. Either way works for me
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I was just checking Barnes & Noble's website and they have a release date listed too... unfortunately it comes a month later than the one you've found.
While I hope (really really hope) that your release date is the correct one and that B&N is going to get it later - I'm thinking in the US that we're not going to get it until closer to December.
Putting a positive spin on it, it gives me more time to play 2e and Dark Heresy, right?
Regardless, it's coming soon...
Jason
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I think that FF probably had this concept in mind when they originally got the license from Games Workshop. Add to this their long history with other games (roleplaying, board, card and otherwise) and the point that they've probably been working with this for the better part of two years, and I think it's probably been well play-tested.
The thing about Paizo and Pathfinder is true about them play-testing with thousands of gamers; however, they've also pissed off many of them by not including all of the 3.5e upgrades that the playtesters suggested. When all was said and done, Pathfinder was a little-changed gussied up 3.5e. It certainly sold well, but it wasn't a revolutionary (or even evolutionary) change. It was 3.5 with a few house rules.
Warhammer Fantasy 3e is a revolutionary change. There's really not much like it out their, and it represents a huge change from the game it is replacing. Hopefully what FF has done is kept the play-testing groups small and focused. Too many people and you end up getting a bunch of compromises that water down the process. What I hope they did was get a bunch of VERY experienced players and suggested that they had a clean slate with which to create the best Warhammer Fantasy concept they could come up with - no sacred cows....and then took it from there, keeping what worked and tossing what didn't.
But to answer your first question - the concept seems simple enough that I'm confident that it's been both play-tested enough and that the concept works.
To answer the second question - if you look at a game like Descent, I'm pretty confident that FF has a bunch of supplements in line for this game. We know that there's an Adventurer's Kit being released in conjunction with the game - I think that adventures and other supplements will follow shortly.
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Agreed!
My local gamestore gets involved in every promotion from Warhammer tabletop, to D&D 4e events, to Monsterpocalypse, etc.
Fantasy Flight needs to come up with some events to promote Warhammer 3e to emphasize its strengths to people so they can see more than just the price tag. They need to point out that it comes with 4 books which would each likely retail for $25 - plus everything else that comes in the box. It's a hell of a deal - but not many will realize that unless FF takes the opportunity to promote it. Give away a few sets of dice or exclusive stand-ups to game stores to give to players that run the game, or something like that.
I just really want to see this game succeed and know that they're going to have to show it off to get people unaware of the system to give it a chance. They should be sending out little pamphlets describing the game to game store owners and employees NOW so that they're aware of it and how it works. Nothing will make a game succeed or fail better than the people tasked with getting it into customer's hands. If they're spreading misinformation based on not knowing anything - the game dies. If they know about the system - love the system - then that will be exhibited when the store employee is asked about it. I know that last Saturday I asked my local gamestore owner about Warhammer 3e and if he was going to carry it. If it's supposed to come out this year, there's less than 3 months until it's released. Unfortunately, the gamestore owner knew nothing about it.
That ain't gonna work.
So I did my part and talked to him about it a bit. He was interested - just based on the innovation of the system. Imagine if Fantasy Flight sent him a full-color pamphlet fully describing the game and coming up with some sort of promotion to give him and his customers some small incentive to give the game a try.
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Foolishboy said:
Mordenthral said:
Foolishboy said:
The problem with the WFRPv2 Bestiary was that BI wanted to make some more money by not putting much in the Corebook frocing us to by a seperate Bestiary book and then they decided to scatter creatures all through the other books much like Careers, spells, skills/talents and everything else. Hopefully FFG will just make one good Bestiary section and leave it at that.
If they're going with consolidation of reference material into card decks that you can add to as they are expanded, wouldn't it make sense to have a Foe Deck for the GMs ease of use?
Unfortunately cards aren't really big enough to contain a good amount of information, so if they go that route the bestiary will probably just contain the bear statistics without any additional information.
They did mention that the Bestiary is in the GM book* - so at the very least, there will be more than just monster cards. I'm not quite sure that FFG has said that there are monster cards, have they?
* Tome of Adventure: A Guide to Game Mastery & Roleplaying
The Tome of Adventure contains additional rules and information for the player who will be running the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sessions as the GM. It includes suggestions and guidelines on managing long-term campaigns, handling character development, and creating adventures. The book also contains background and statistics for a variety of enemies to pit the players’ heroes against, as well as a complete introductory adventure. -
I think FFG is betting that the new players brought into the fold will balance out (or hopefully supersede) those that refuse to convert. Without seeing market research and talking to fans outside of the forum atmosphere, there's really no way to know for sure.
From an outside perspective, I think FFG is doing a great job of drumming up new interest in the line. Over at RPGNet, you can see that interest, there's lots of comments from folks that think the new ideas are great (and lots of comments about the price -but that's another matter altogether).
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Tiacapan said:
Hmm interesting mix of systems from people thus far. Recently we've been playing:
WFRP 2E
Dark Heresy
Legend of the Five Rings
Call of Cthulhu (non-mythos)
The Esoterrorists
How is Esoterrorists? I initially thought about using that when I wanted to start my 'monster-hunter' game, but opted for True20 (because of my players D20 backgrounds). Is it pretty good?
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I GM a Victorian-Era monster hunting game using True20
I also GM (currently on hiatus while I get monster huntin' out of my system) a Marvel FASERIP (heavily house-ruled) game.
I play in a 4e D&D game, that converted from 3.5e (and 3 before that). The drama involved in that switch (gaming public - not our game) makes me appreciate what a lot of the old-time WFRP players are going through right now.
I recently re-retired from World of Warcraft due to capping out at 80 and not being willing to put in the time to become a hardcore player. Level 80 casuals can only go so far before the game gets dull....
Lastly, a friend and I are trying to get a Conan game going using the Mongoose OGL rules (though I'm going to try to convince him to give True20 a try)
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I've never played a Warhammer game of any sort, tabletop or roleplaying game.
I'm not only interested in WFRPv3, I've already pre-ordered it.
I'm interested in this game because the mechanics look innovative. I'm interested in it because it looks like the kind of game that I can use to bring my non-gamer friends into the hobby. The fact that many of the 'rules' are on cards and can be placed before players mean that I have my wife (who has never played an RPG of any sort, ever) interested in giving it a try. The innovative die rolls has my brother-in-law (who won't even consider playing DnD with me - ever) promising to give it try. There's enough here that alludes to other gaming styles - or alludes to ease of use - that I'm ecstatic with the possibilities that my immediate gaming circle might increase by at least 3. Seeing as my immediate gaming circle right now is 4, that's a 75% increase, just because FFG has created a game that looks fun, doesn't look like its rules are too intimidating, and it looks like something that is aimed at making collaborative stories together.
Now having gone through the 3.5e to 4e DnD debacle, I can fully understand that many old-time WFRP fans might be upset with the direction that WFRP is headed. I don't know any of the history of WFRP 2e and how beloved (or not) that game is, nor how big an issue it was when 2e arose from the original game. I know for many of us, this is a fantastic jumping-on point. I could try to track down the 2e books and pay 50% more than cover price on eBay to play the game, OR I can start new and fresh with the brand new game. Throw in the fact that 3e has innovative mechanics that are unlike any of the games I've played before and I'm sold...
Question for those that have read and understand the new rules....
in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
Posted
I'm really looking forward to 3e... but I still dearly love the 2e books that I have (and will continue to buy 'til I have 'em all).
I'm glad to hear that you don't think conversion will be too hard. I think once an easy conversion is available, maybe people won't be so quick to dump on this one, especially without really considering its finer points.
My only real problem now is finding out the release date and getting my game group together on that day to play it