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guest383101

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Everything posted by guest383101

  1. Jericho said: chojun said: it would be really hard to get a teenager who has played WOW to sit down and play the role of a wizard who has two hit points, a sleep spell, no armor and a dagger. You had to roleplay to make this character survive and interesting to play. but those days are over, if you want to play something new and with support you are going to have to deal with the influence of the MMO and other media. the genie is out of the bottle and somebody fudged up the wishes. Sure, but what RPG out there makes you start with a dagger and one spell ? 1st edition AD&D, redbox D&D in all its versionsmagic-users at low levels were totally under poweredand I think 2nd edition as well, but I think my old group house ruled where the wizard gets the same bonuses as the cleric, except it was tied to intelligence instead of wisdom?
  2. vandimar77 said: Cat's strike stupid? I think not. An action card that lets you hit someone with a cat is a great idea... LOL....call china and stop the presses. we need this card.
  3. there has been some folks in other threads talking about the action card titles. basically, do they have stupid names like cats strike, or flaming hatred cleave or what have you. what I have seen they have pretty modest titles that help describe what the action is. the two that come to mind are something called "hard glare?" and " ive seen worse" both are pretty descriptive and not fluffy. i have played 4E D&D and the major gripe I have with the game is that all the powers have fluffy, non descriptive titles. when somebody did something you really didnt have any idea what was going on. what it amounted to was people played their cards and rolled damage dice and moved figures.....EVERY STINKIN TIME.....no matter if it was a warrior type or a wizard type. from what I see so far this game wont play like this....i think the card titles serve to enhance description and imagination. but i reserve the right to be totally wrong.
  4. jadrax said: chojun said: IIRC, Armor class was lifted from some naval wargame that dave arneson played. Both Hit Points and "Lower-is-better" Armour Class featured in the game "Don't Give Up the Ship" that Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax wrote prior to D&D. thanks i knew I was swirling around the truth somehow. which kinda proves my not so articulate point that game designers actually use effective concepts in one game with another game. like maybe FFG using stuff that works in their boardgames and appying them to an RPG. this is the kind of thing I like. one guy throwing out something kinda muddy but on the right track, and another guy clearing things up. too bad we dont see more of this kind of thing instead of the speculative hatred and snarkiness.
  5. macd21 said: A far bigger influence on v3's design is clearly FFGs experience with boardgames, which taught them how to do certain things faster and more efficiently than they might otherwise. Certain mechanics that most RPGs consider too unwieldy become possible when you have custom dice, cards and tokens to speed things up. this is why i like intelligent posting, one guy throwing something out there and another guy putting another angle on it. I agree with this totally. there are MMO influences in this game, but mayhaps they are more cosmetic-giving the player something to look at besides a piece of paper. but you are right and you have changed my thinking and expanded my perceptions. this is a boardgame company, they want mechanics that enhance the speed of a boardgame, pursuing the endless problem of downtime between turns. even though this is clearly not a boardgame, they can still use what works and what has been successful.
  6. i had an unfortunate weekend a couple of years ago, when i tried to play Descent with my nephews on the same day they got grand theft auto. there was no way Descent with all its flashyness, and baubles could compete with a urban sociopath simulator.
  7. Ravenheart87 said: chojun: Cards: we've seen them in many games before, right now they remind me D&D4e's powercards a little (which are optional, and act only as reference), and Magic the Gathering or other TCGs (they are flashy, contain lots of game mechanics, and you need them to play). Initiative: reminds me an advanced version of old-school D&D's group initiative, or a really dumbed down version of the count system (like in Aces&Eights, HackMaster 5e). Palladium's initiative also works a bit like that. Conservative/reckless: most rpg's have some rule about doing something more caotiously or agressively, although these meant only bonuses and penalties to skill. Easiest example: Power Attack in D&D. Better one: Traveller, where you can hurry or take your time with a skill check, which results in bonuses or penalties. And it wasn't bound by any meters, how reckless you can be. Stance meter: I saw it in many video games, mostly jrpgs. Recharge: Almost every MMORPG from Everquest to WoW uses this. The only really innovative element are the custom dice, at least for me - I know there are rpg systems with custom dice, like FUDGE, but they work almost like a normal dice throw, they only generate a random number. But we had card and even jenga based RPGs, so it's not a huge surprise to see something like that. cards: anybody in these forums ever play descent? and magic the gathering isnt an RPG. but yeah, a bunch of info packed on a card has to come from this. Initiative: every body robbed this from some out of print 1972 wargame. C/R: did they do it with differnet color dice so you wont have to be mathmatical at 2 am? meters: i saw this in my car once on the dash board. Recharge: yeah, definate MMO here. no doubt about it. but i watched a popeye cartoon once where he did it with spinach and no cards.
  8. Necronomicus said: Actually i have seen just about every design element in this new edition scattered in other products since the dawn of RPGs And simply making a physical mock up of elements found in MMOs is not new either. All of these "tools" have existed in either obscure or non DnD rpgs thru the years, or in video games in a virtual form. Name some of them. tell us where they got the dice idea from. the range band idea from( i first saw it in the old DL saga system). the stance meter idea from. the conservative/reckless idea from. where did they get the recharge idea from? where did they get their spin on the intiative system from? I really want to know. if you have specifics give them, a blanket generalization doesnt do anybody any good and doesnt do much to advance your argument. I know that a lot of D&D concepts had their origins in wargames. IIRC, Armor class was lifted from some naval wargame that dave arneson played.
  9. it would be really hard to get a teenager who has played WOW to sit down and play the role of a wizard who has two hit points, a sleep spell, no armor and a dagger. You had to roleplay to make this character survive and interesting to play. but those days are over, if you want to play something new and with support you are going to have to deal with the influence of the MMO and other media. the genie is out of the bottle and somebody fudged up the wishes.
  10. xenoss said: well, you did take their 4E Power cards concept, so I guess it is only fair) Descent came out before 4E, it has powercards with lightning bolts instead of boons, banes and Axes. v3 is just a more complex form of the Descent cards. to be fair, the cards in 4E are more of a reference tool rather than an integrated mechanic, and 4E is a wedding of WOW, Magic:tg. WHFRP has its mecanical influences in Descent (and most Likely Tide of Iron), which is a copy of DOOM the Boardgame which of course is a tabletop simulation of the videogame.
  11. this is my attempt at an intelligent post: First you had the rpg and then you had the MMO who really wanted to be just like the RPG. And now we are seeing RPGs taking a lot of design and mechanics from MMOs. The thing is that RPGs is a numerical system. you roll dice you add numbers or take away numbers, or look at a chart or table. and in game combat length is a function of how many things you are trying to do. For instance, when I used to play 1st edition D&D, we used no miniatures, we did group initiative, and everything was hit or miss on the dice, you also had a pathetic amount of hitpoints which meant that characters died pretty easy and quickly. Hence, it didnt take that long to have a combat. and during most sessions we probably ran through 4 or 5 fights. the roleplaying segments were fun, but we also knew that the longer we roleplayed the longer we would live. and when you made it to about 3rd or fourth level you felt like Conan. but as we started adding things to the game it slowed down to the point to where if you had two combats in a four hour session you were lucky....but they became slow. MMO's are visual. you click a button something happens, the button goes dim awhile. then it gets bright again. you can do a lot of stuff in under a minute. you can do two dozen different actions and the game still plays at the same speed. good or bad, the new WFRP is trying to do alot of things more quickly. I think that the gridless combat was a concession for the sake of speed, as is the initiative system. the one roll resolutuion mechanic is to try to save time--put every factor into a pile, shake it up, and cancel things out. whats left is what happens. the cards for reference speed things up and also provide more actions, the recharge tokens serve to cut down options over a period of time, thus making things quicker and more deadly. you cant defend every turn, you have to choose the right time, so most likely you stand to suffer more damage, making combats go a bit quicker. the party card makes people move along or else, argue too much and you'll pay for it later. stress and fatigue make you weaker, therefore easier to damage, thus making combat resolve quicker. and something nobody seems to mention is that the wounds/hit points are still low. I laugh when this game is compared to 4e, because anyone who has played 4e D&D is that everything has more hitpoints, even kobolds. this game is going to still be grim and perilous--hell just look at the wounds ratings. anyway, i just wanted to point these things out. and I can count on somebody to point at the holes in my logic, which is the fun part about forums because when we think we have it all figured out some 13 year old from New Zealand shows us the error of our ways. yeah,, this is influenced by MMO's, as Was 4e D&D. but where 4e trys to do new things with old ideas and mechanics and just trades one slow complexity for another, I think that FFG is trying new things with new ideas. AND AS I KEEP POINTING OUT OVER AND OVER: THIS GAME MECHANICS WISE IS INFLUENCED BY FFG GAMES. NOT WOTC D&D. anyone who has played four or five FFG big box games can see it plain as day. its got some Descent influences, its got some tide of iron influences, so on and so on. FFG had card powers first, not D&D. so when I see a post saying that this is a rip off of D&D then I automatically know that person is talking out of their backside. good gaming and good posting.
  12. someone said that the reason for the cards and bits is that this is hard to pirate. i could be wrong, but dont waste your time looking for a HC compendium. look it up on Barnes and noble and they have a page count. i'm expecting something on par with the descent:RTL rulebook. 4 slim PB's that you really shouldnt put your coffe cup on. a
  13. someone has probably mentioned this somewhere else, but barnes and noble site says that the core set has 228 pages. so its either 57 pages in each book, or two slim books, and two really slim books. but with most of everything on cards, big rulebooks arent needed,
  14. i think everybody has seen enough to know if they are going to play it or not. Any negative comments at this point are a waste of time to read. so I skip most of em.
  15. what are the little white squares next to the diamond charateristic boxes for?
  16. speculative question here... the new diary mentions an initiative roll. any guesses how this is handled? I'm guessing its a straight up agility roll with the blue dice, but I wonder if any challenge dice will be added. wonder if stances play a part?
  17. Poe said: I think this is the main point. FFG has taken a bunch of useful mechanics from their succesful board games and thought about how it could be used in an rpg. If you've played both rpgs and board games you can see where these influences come from, but from a pure rpg perspective I'd say definitely a new way of thinking. If it's revolutionary or not remains to be seen, but I have my hopes up. well, said. I wish I was this articulate.
  18. Descent is a game that you have to be in the right kind of mood to play. It's D&D with out the conversation, and chit chat. It's pretty intense, crazy game. you could spend an hour fighting your way out of one hallway. The next day after playing I often have a "gaming" hangover, and I feel slightly dirty. Next week, I'm planning on starting RTL with my nephews. and I'm trying to get ready for it mentally. It can also be described crudely like this: Your favorite RPG is like your wife is now. you have built a relationship with her through the good times and bad. Descent is like when you used to be single. Sometimes you'd hook up with someone for the night, weekend, or week. very low maintence, very low commitment, and when you get tired of the arrangement you move on. six months later you can't even remember their name. my guess is that FFG wanted to put some of the sensible, less frantic, time saving elements ( cards and custom dice) concepts of Descent into a RPG. I don't expect to have a gaming hangover when I play it, and I expect to build a longterm relationship with the game. cheers and have a good one
  19. I think that the dice are a new concept, and maybe even revolutionary. they give a little more depth to a roll. its just not a d20 and some stats. It will tell you how and why. also, it gives the players a chance to be cautious or aggressive. I can't count how many times back in the day of save or die saving throws, that I wish I had a little bit more control over removing a trap. also, who hasn't done this when confronted with a big bad boss who starts talking trash: "enough of this crap, I'm chopping this guy in half." I could see somebody going all red dice in this situation. The party sheet is a pretty nifty idea. I can't say i have heard of it before. there is alway a need in a game to get people around the table to quit arguing in game or out. Cards and counters. we are talking about FFG here. In hindsight, can we say that this is a major surprise? anybody who has played Descent knows the potential of using this stuff. The movement/no grid system is an old idea thats hopefully coming back. I remember doing this in old school D&D, before everybody got into minitures. before inititive started the DM would say, "ok, where is everybody at?" I think a lot of us old schoolers kind of got our fill with miniatures and grids with 4e D&D. back in the old days it seemed like the game moved a lot quicker because nobody had to draw anything or place anything. and before i forget, this isnt new. I remember when TSR totally effed over the dragon lance world by going to the card based system.(now that my friends is an example of changing the mechanics for no good reason, and for the worse). that game had a range system just like this one. it was probably the only thing anybody can remember from that game. it was actually a pretty neat concept. Tracking system: I mean, tracking systems used to be totally homebrew. everybody has a way to keep track of something. It just shows that FFG is thinking about the total game experience. I like a lot of things that FFG does, and I'm an optimist. there are a lot of hatred on this. mainly, " this is just another example of a corporate cash grab." but my take is that this is about as honest and genuine attempt to update roleplaying as you are going to see from a big game company. I mean, most rpgs are a variation of the same game. a character sheet with more or less stuff on it, and a different way of rolling the dice. I can say that this new WFRP is a real effort to be revolutionary. time will tell.
  20. One thing I always hated about RPG's was arbitrary GM's. Guys who just go off the top of their head on game decisions, which usually are no benefit to the player at all. I know that the GM needs a lot of creative space to move, or it wouldnt be a roleplaying game. but if im playing with a GM and I know he's using something like this progress tracking tool i would feell like the game was a bit more even and consistent. I mean, RPG's have all lived and died by the GM. A good GM can make up for crappy rules, but great rules can't make up for a crappy GM. If FFG wants to develop some tools to make the game consistent then thats great.
  21. HedgeWizard said: 2. Can you play without the skill/talent cards? It should be possible to ignore the specialty rolls and just focus on successes and failures outright with the GM interpreting misfortune and the like on a whim. i.e. if a GM doesn't want to us the cards to determine extra damage, etc. the contents of the skills/talents (like Aim, dodge, etc.) should be explicit in the rule set. If they are only present on the cards, that will be a problem affecting adoption. I would think that after several plays some of the more basic action cards would become second nature. the deal is that the symbol dice allow a lot more things to go on. i don't now why you would play this version of the game if you just wanted to do success and failure. although, i read somewhere that for time saving purposes you have the option of just being straight up success and failure. axe multiple axes birds skulls comet chaos thats six possiblities(did i miss any?) from one roll, hence the need for reference cards I suppose. I hope each card has its own personaity and things dont get redunant like in 4e D&D
  22. I wonder if all these different effects stack on the axes. If you get four axes will everything stack or do you take the higher axe result?
  23. TalkingMuffin said: I'm not trying to be "that guy", but it's not "dices"... then dont be that guy. there may be people on here in which English isnt a first language. or, like to say dices instead of die, or dice. big stinkin deal. if I had to have good grammar and punctuation and spelling, and actually articulate a complicated point in a few sentences I would never post a thing. I have really enjoyed the civil nature of our discussions and speculations the last few days. lets keep it fun and interesting. cheers
  24. I'm a hundred percent behind this game, but the dice pack they are selling seems a little lacking right now. I'mgoing to have to play it to see if we have enough dice.
  25. there is a 90% chance I'm wrong. and I'm wrong a lot. I'm just looking at what I can see on the dodge card. I can see a black dice blank on the card. there is a possibility that on a dodge the person dodging rolls the misfortune dice, instead of the attacker. and there is the option that the one party rolls the good dice, and the other party rolls the bad dice. this would cut down on the " dice bouncing off the table and rolling under the refridgerator syndrome"
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