And the FAQ. They changed a couple of skills and removed a couple there.

Big Remy said: Grimzak said: We played yesterday RtL and couldn't find an answer to the following question: Every Dungeon has three (random) levels. To get the heroes out of this dungeon, you have to get through the Overlord cards twice at one level. When the hereos advance to the next level, the OL cards deck is shuffeled again and complete. What happens to the Threat markers the OL gained during one level? Are they still in play at the next level or is there a reset? First, you do not reshuffle the OL deck between levels. The OL's deck is only ever shuffled in a RtL dungeon if he runs through the deck. Second, you keep your threat between levels, as well as any Power cards you have in play. +1

In RTL, as soon as the conquest total hits 600, then after whatever dungeon the heroes are currently in, they get to teleport to the Avatar's keep to take him down. If the heroes are pretty good on items and skills in gold level of the campaign, they may not want the overlord to buy any new upgrades/finish a plot line and instead want to force the OL into the final confrontation. Without the rule that they would get ejected after 2 deck cycles in the same dungeon level, they could sit indefinitely in town as the OL cycles his deck over and over again, until the campaign hits 600 XP. As it is now, the heroes can do the same thing by just killing each other repeatedly.

pinkymadigan said: You guys are missing the fact that the average mini price is around $8.00 for a single mini. Granted, these are exceptional minis, and pre-painted isn't a selling point for hobbyists, but 6.50 a mini is cheap. This is a complete fallacy. Sure, some companies such as GW, Privateer press, a number of the smaller boutique manufacturers that advertise on Coolminiornot are around 8.00 or so. But there are far more companies whose prices are far, far lower. Reaper's p-65 line (which is just some of their normal line miniatures with a different metal mix) are only $3-4 average, whilst their normal lines are $5-7. Some are cheaper. Most of the fantasy warriors range, which is available either from EM-4 or mirliton are ~11 bucks for packs of 5, or a little over two dollars a piece. Mega-minis sells almost their entire line for $1.50, though admittedly most of the range isn't great (though they do have some old grenadier casts which are really good). EM-4 also sells the plastic Fantasy Warriors dwarfs and orcs for ~$0.32 apiece (yes, that is 32 cents). Mantic miniatures have just released their line of plastic elves, which retail at ~$20.00 for 20 elves. They have an army deal that is even better. Old Glory does a number of lines of varying quality at really low prices, as does Black tree designs. All those are companies that sell fantasy miniatures, which on average are more expensive than historical ones. Most historical manufacturers sell their minis at ~1.50 a guy, Wargames foundry being the exception (no surprise as they are closely affiliated with GW). TMP (the miniatures page) is the best place to go if you want to "shop around" manufacturers. I would also suggest one of the larger internet stores, such as the Warstore or Wayland games, to pick up minis as you can buy from a variety of manufacturers, and usually at a discount from retail prices.

Antistone said: At least in vanilla, you can't cherry-pick cards with treachery, you can give up 2 treachery points to start with a single extra random card in your hand (which is such a bad option as to be insulting). In Road to Legend, I believe you can cherry-pick cards for lieutenant battles, but you use the same rules as vanilla for dungeonsso you need to actually draw one of your treachery cards at random before it benefits you (or pay a ludicrous cost to start with one or two extra random cards). Yep, which is why treachery is best used to make LT battle hard on the heroes. Except in the case of Kar-Amog-Atoth and possibly Slaggorath, most of the bite of a LT encounter come from the treachery selection he brings with him. Treachery in regular RTL dungeons isn't nearly as effective as in Vanilla for a few reasons. 1) Until late in the campaign, the OL doesn't have all that much treachery to bear, meaning the likelihood of drawing a treachery card is significantly lower. 2) A number of Vanilla quests suggest certain treachery cards to be used, like the first WoD quest which almost begs the OL to pick treachery that slows the party down (The ice trap from TOI is a really good one, and a timely boulder is a game winner. Big blocking creatures are also nice). However, in RTL, the levels are so short there is very little chance of picking treachery that complements the level very well, especially as the OL only knows what the first level is when he picks his treachery. The effect is that the overlord generally picks the same "general utility" treachery selection, skeleton hoard, animate weapons, etc. 3) Red treachery is difficult to use to full potential, owing to the general lack of spawning areas in an RTL dungeon, and the larger number of creatures red spawns usually bring. On the flip side, it isn't all that bad in an LT encounter, as the heroes can't spawn block it.

Yeah, that sounds like a more recent printing, which make sense if you just bought the game as they have re-issued it recently.

Yes, you are right. I was going by memory, which apparently isn't that good.

Corbon said: 6. Yes, with Red treachery. Spawns are placed as reinforcements. I can't find where thios was clarified, possibly in the GLOaQ. Also, remember that you may decide to use up to two points of treachery (doesn't matter what color) to take a normal OL card, which could be a spawn. For example, let's say you only have one trap treachery, but really want a spawn card in a LT encounter. You can not take a normal trap treachery, but instead take the normal skeleton spawn, for example. But you can only do this twice, even if you have a billion treachery. The most common use is to get the regular Danger card and the regular Dark Charm.

Gold treasures are simply ridiculous, regardless of which flavor of descent you play. In RTL, the problem is compounded by the heroes' skills, which they get to choose through the course of the campaign. By gold level, the combination of crazy treasure, and optimized skill sets makes things very hard for the OL.

No, items are treasure items and town shop items, not rune keys.

In Road to Legend, the dungeon maps tend to be very small, and the exit is usually blocked by a rune-locked door. The heroes generally get the rune-key upon killing the level leader. What telekinesis allows is for the heroes to move the leader (which is also one of the only ways to generate CT for the heroes), kill him, and then race out of the level, picking up the treasure chest/gold piles on the way out. The result is a dungeon level that lasts maybe 2 hero turns, 1 OL turn, before it is over. Lt's are an expensive uber-monster that moves about on the world map, allowing the OL to accomplish his goals, and harass the hero party. However, when they die, that's it. They are dead for the whole campaign (except for Kreig). In encounters with LT's, the heroes telekinese the LT and then kill him, which ends the encounter. The result is a one turn screw-fest.

Yes, you can move any of the above. They took telekinesis out of the advanced campaign because it allowed the heroes to move a LT in the middle of them, and then they beat him to death before the OL could do anything. Same thing with level leaders.

I think it's based on the idea that the party does not place orders or spend fatigue on the map board. They can only do a very few things on the map-boards, such as visit a town, move, restock, go to secret training, or explore a dungeon.

Well, on point one they could kill themselves, assuming they had enough CT to get away with it, and then enter through a portal on the other side of the door.

1. Their movement is for each of them. They may both move 6 spaces a turn. 2. No. They can carry potions or items. 3. No. See 2.

I think the real problem was that the trees were pre-printed on the tiles, and it ended up being impossible for large creatures to move around on the maps without suffer movement penalties for the trees. Since they unavoidably suffer from the negatives, they should also get the positives, even if it seems comical that a dragon is trying to squeeze themselves behind a small birch tree.

It is most certainly not a lack of reason why the rules are the way they are. It's an example of applied reason in terms of workable game mechanics, and not verisimilitude.

Well, I can see why you are having trouble being the overlord only being 3 quests in, The first couple are ridiculously easy, especially the second quest which is quite possibly the easiest quest in all of descent. If you want to give your heroes a good spanking, try out the quest with the soul-sword (can't remember what it is called). Next, the reason you need to kill heroes is to drain their CT count. That's the only way you can win as Overlord in most cases. Kill the weakest hero repeatedly. Ignore the hardest to kill target, unless you have a sure-fire way of killing him (turning him into a monkey in a room full of skele-bobs, for example). In later expansions OLs get a poweful new tool for their arsenal, called treachery. What treachery is are very good cards that can be subbed in for less useful cards in the OL deck, the number of these you have is determined by the quest. Also, most quests in the later expansions are much more difficult than the standard quests. Tomb of Ice introduces something called feats, which are super-powerful one-off cards for the heroes, which many suspect were added to balance out treachery. RTL, or Road to Legend, is a campaign system for Descent that changes the way Descent is played a great deal.

What? Why? Making the heroes rest in dungeon at least gives the overlord the chance to nullify it (barring leadership, of course). Fatigue is the best resource heroes have at their disposal, and should not have another way to recover it. Especially for 0 gold.

Of course it's opinion. Mine is they are kinda meh. I really like most of the monster sculpts, hence why I got the game in the first place (though I phrased it as "honey, we need a dungeon crawler for Friday night gaming," not I need more minis. The LT's for me are bland, especially the farrows. I hate the Kar-Amog-Atoth model, but I hate his design in the first place. But they are spendy. Maybe not Goldswords speny, but way spendier than most singles from other companies (Like Reaper. Now that Reaper is casting some pieces in non-white metal with more lead, some of their singles are only 3 bucks! I'm gonna get me a Monique de Noir...), and are on the small side. Incidently, I worked for GW years ago, too. Wish I still had the discount...

It's an issue of game mechanics. FFG chose (IMO correctly) that a cleaner and easier to implement mechanic trumps realistic fidelity. More than likely, dodge and the other orders were developed and tested much earlier in the game design phase, as they are a integral and very common mechanic of the game. You could very well argue that the orders (along with the Actions) are what gives Descent it's unique tactical feel (vs, say, WHQ which has a flat combat system). Things like breath and blast are more than likely brought in later, after the other mechanics had been nailed down. The newer mechanics are the ones that are most likely to have a number of anomalous issues with them that make it through testing, probably from a mix of less development time, and the escalating number of interactions as things are added. But the core mechanics will likely not suffer as much. There aren't many questions about how the individual orders function, only how they function with other, likely newer (in terms of development cycle), mechanics. In terms of breath, they chose (wisely) that only a single dodging hero forces the re-roll of the attack dice, even though multiple targets are hit (perhaps a mix of dodging and non-dodging models), despite the disconnect with what we would think of as reality. In order to force reality onto the game, there would be a need to re-write, from the ground, decided upon core mechanics. This would produce a completely different game (given the crazy number of mechanics that may force another re-write, ad naseum), and one that may not be as focused, or as satisfactory. There may have never even been a descent if they took that approach. In short, the way breath an dodge interact are a necessary departure from reality in order to make the game work.

Afterall, I don't think that ogres have lipitol and are likely to be quite robust about the midsection.

Big Remy said: SamVimes said: Very true. RTL makes more sense to me, personally. I find the vanilla undying tedious. Depends...have you ever had a Master Ogre make 5 Undying rolls in a row and go back to full health? We had a master Skele-bob get up 9 times in RTL. I just hate fiddling with leftover damage.

In a game where by Gold all the heroes really nice equipment makes most dungeons and encounters a joke. They had to remove one because of the way LT encounters works, where an OL could get both and play them immediately instead of burning through ~40 cards to get to them.

Fatigue potions restore all a heroes fatigue, not 3. Health potions do 3.