player769046
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Posts posted by player769046
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Necronomicus said:
possible names
The history of gaming blender system
Potpouri
The Salad Bar system
Making use of previous failed ideas in other games system
The Gimmick system TM
Great names.
I would like to add :
Warhammer: the Gathering
A card game formerly known as WFRP
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Its more influenced by MtG or other CCG than an MMO. In fact there there is not much of an MMO in 3rd edtion. Its a card game cloaked as a rpg.
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superklaus said:
Foolishboy said:
If like me money and time are an issue and your painting skills leave something to be desired then the pre-paints are quite a good option.
This reason is ok, but by far not the only reason. There are people who can paint (I think I can paint quite decently), BUT who dont want to waste precious time with tedious painting when they could prepare an rpg adventure at the same time or take a walk with the family. Its just the matter how important one estimates painting is in his life. In my list its importance its very low. But I love to use miniatures in my rpgs because they are fun so I buy the prepainted.
And again - all those of you who say that prepainted DnD figs are crap quality didnt see the new ones. These are fine and sometimes much better than most figs I have seen from experienced painters. And they are cheaper than lead. Show me a lead troll for 3,80 Euro with the size of 9cm from any company. No? Right...you cannot. Because this is only possible in the new Dangerous Delves Line of DnD. (Bladerager Troll No7)
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Foolishboy said:
If like me money and time are an issue and your painting skills leave something to be desired then the pre-paints are quite a good option.
This reason is ok, but by far not the only reason. There are people who can paint (I think I can paint quite decently), BUT who dont want to waste precious time with tedious painting when they could prepare an rpg adventure at the same time or take a walk with the family. Its just the matter how important one estimates painting is in his life. In my list its importance its very low. But I love to use miniatures in my rpgs because they are fun so I buy the prepainted.
And again - all those of you who say that prepainted DnD figs are crap quality didnt see the new ones. These are fine and sometimes much better than most figs I have seen from experienced painters. And they are cheaper than lead. Show me a lead troll for 3,50$ with the size of 9cm from any company. No? Right...you cannot. Only possible in the new Legendary Evil Line of DnD.
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cogollo said:
PzVIE said:
superklaus said:
I would them NOT have produce proprietary material like special dice and special cards without those the game is not playable.
At this point you may say "thank you" to all those f****** pirates out there who think that copying a book is as legal and ok as copying music or movies. That's the consequence!
Exactly... That's why I consider myself a sort of patron for RPG and boardgaming companies... I work tough, I get my money and I spend as much as I can in promoting the companies that give me the entertainment I want... That's why I will always buy FFG products, because they are great quality and fun to play... until they start doing crap, at which time I'll stop buying from them...
For the same reason I bought all WFRP2 stuff, I almost always buy Blizzard products (except WoW, which I hate), Valve products (long live Left 4 Dead and Half Life!) and many other products from companies which products I like... That way I am promoting the companies that produce the stuff I like: a simple mechanism.
Bottom line is, if you don't like a product then don't buy it (thus telling clearly to the company that it should not go that way) and attack the company saying the product in question sucks... but attacking a company by saying they want to earn too much money sounds ludicrous to me... Ask anybody in the world if they are paid according to their effort and I'm quite sure most people will tell you they are not paid enough...
cogollo said:
PzVIE said:
superklaus said:
I would them NOT have produce proprietary material like special dice and special cards without those the game is not playable.
At this point you may say "thank you" to all those f****** pirates out there who think that copying a book is as legal and ok as copying music or movies. That's the consequence!
Exactly... That's why I consider myself a sort of patron for RPG and boardgaming companies... I work tough, I get my money and I spend as much as I can in promoting the companies that give me the entertainment I want... That's why I will always buy FFG products, because they are great quality and fun to play... until they start doing crap, at which time I'll stop buying from them...
For the same reason I bought all WFRP2 stuff, I almost always buy Blizzard products (except WoW, which I hate), Valve products (long live Left 4 Dead and Half Life!) and many other products from companies which products I like... That way I am promoting the companies that produce the stuff I like: a simple mechanism.
Bottom line is, if you don't like a product then don't buy it (thus telling clearly to the company that it should not go that way) and attack the company saying the product in question sucks... but attacking a company by saying they want to earn too much money sounds ludicrous to me... Ask anybody in the world if they are paid according to their effort and I'm quite sure most people will tell you they are not paid enough...
This speaks for itsself. FFG do SOME good games. Others are just crap. Buying everything from them just because its labeled FFG sounds for me like fanboiism. But everybody to his own.
The problem with the Warhammer franchise is that it offers some really good ideas. So its not only black or white. You can like a setting (or many elements of it) and at the same time you can criticize the company which publish it because they treat their fanbase like idiots. (I admit sometimes not even without reason)
There are only a few hobby companies which earn my respect. One of those is pinnacle. Those guys are like us and produce games for us. (and make a decent living out of it too)
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PzVIE said:
superklaus said:
I would them NOT have produce proprietary material like special dice and special cards without those the game is not playable.
At this point you may say "thank you" to all those f****** pirates out there who think that copying a book is as legal and ok as copying music or movies. That's the consequence!
If this is true its not necessary to act in such way only to prevent piracy. But I dont even think thats it is about piracy. I think they just want to make more money with their special dice. So they design their game not around the need of better roleplaying. Instead they design it around their need as an source of income in the hope noone checks it.
BTW: wo ma überoi die weana fint?...
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cogollo said:
What would you have GW and FFG do? I
Well my answer is simple: I would have them informed the unwashed masses of warhammer fans that another version in in planning 1 year or longer from now and not sneaking around without information. I would them NOT have produce proprietary material like special dice and special cards without those the game is not playable. I would not have them produce a boxed set where only 3 players can participate. And I would not have them make a "Warhammer the Gathering" with rechargeable cards out of the roleplaying game while not even minis in combat are supported. That would I have FFG do.
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Luther said:
PRICE POINT
This is not much a problem for me. I think if the game is good for hundreds of hours of entertainment then its worth even more than 100 bucks.
Luther said:
TOO MANY BITS
Yes. Too many bits. Good for those who played their rpgs always like boardgames in the past. Bad for real roleplayers who dont want to have a flip chart for visiting a merchant for buying a hat.
Luther said:
TOTAL SYSTEM CHANGE
No problem for me. I am open to changes, but only if the changes are good. Lets face 2nd ed. was not really good. With all its additional books it had even alot of unnecessary rules over the years. But I dont think that the 3rd edition rules are a good change and solve this problem. Rather they are a further complexification without any gain for players experience.
Luther said:
SETTING IS MORE HIGH FANTASY
Again not a big problem for me. (a small maybe) GW and Mythic as the biggest producers for this setting think thats it is high fantasy too. Its a change of paradigm from 1st and 2nd edition though and kills the past outright. The problem is rather the way it will be presented. If it is presented like Mickymouse-Fantasy DnD and WoW or is it presented as a high Fantasy game for mature players?
Luther said:
NO NEW 2E BOOKS
Well I am in if they release 3e material which didnt appear in 2e. Like an Ulthuan, Tilea or Land of the Death sourcebook. If not I will not spend a single dollar on this release.
Luther said:
THE WORSE MARKETING AND INFO CAMPAIGN. EVAR.
Yes. But I dont think that is was accidential. Such a sneaky attitude is rather the trademark of money grabbing companies and we have several of them in our hobby.
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darkkami said:
....
Why is it that the honest companies like Wizkids have to be punished?...
Its strange to see you in this mood, especially considering the fact that you have been one of the most strongest supporters of 3rd ed. on this forums in the past. What happened?
I think the points you brought have been true. But they are also true with other companies in our hobby like WotC. Remember they draw back all pdfs from previous editions from one day to another. It think that there are only few companies in our hobby who are worth to be respected. (eg. triple ace games or pinnacle) Forget the rest. These companies dont respect us as customer (only our wallets) and thus have absolutely no right be be respected themselves. This nasty corporate behaviour has already has begun with the TSR money grabbers in the 90ties after the Gary Gygax has left the company.
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KjetilKverndokken said:
superklaus said:
8. Prepainted plastic minis are the future. Lead is the past.
Me, I keep minis for war gaming, not in roleplaying (may use counters ore something for quick this is where you are compared to each other - but more often then not a whiteboard.).
Counters are not good enough for our group. We like the tactile feel of our minis during combat. We use also Wotc battlemaps, Paizo Maps and 3D Terrain from Fat Dragon. The combination of all these things gives often a similar rich picture of combat than you are used to have on a tabletop. Just try to play a city riot scene in Altdorf with 80+ minis and 20 timber framed 3D houses. I have all the models on shelves in a neighbor room, so building such a szene is under 3 minutes. The experience to roleplay such things really rocks! (btw. we use Savage Worlds as our prefered system for Warhammer and not 2nd edition which rules are much too slow for minicombat of this scale)
Thats why so many companies are starting up and doing a quite great job of making money on lead-plastic-resin minis at the moment and competing quite even with games workshop?
As I said. Prepainted are the future. Games Workshop tries to indoctrinate especially young gamers to paint by theirselves because they make alot of money with acryl colors. But this is a special case and not every company can do this. In 10-15y from now most lead companies will be only small niche producers for those who like to paint or go the way of the dodo. The most sold minis will be prepainted plastic from bigger professional companies and normal non-painted softplastic (produced with home fabricators connected to your PC)
PS: the edit and insert text function of this forum is extremely tedious. Who invents such unintuitive things?.
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bernh said:
It's not GW minis, but this is Warhammer definitly.
Interesting minis. Must have. How much do they cost and where I can buy these? Please tell us. Thanks.
Regarding DnD MInis. I love them! They are much superior to lead minis and most non prepainted plastic minis.
Why?
1. They have developed a good quality standard in the meantime.
2. They are SOFTPLASTIC. This means easy to store than metal minis (eg. simply throw them in tupperware boxes). This is handy if you have to store 2000+ Minis and have no room for it.
3. DnD Minis and Reaper Minis are extremely durable and CANNOT BREAK!.
4. They are light. I can take several hundreds with me without borrowing out a crane.
5. I dont like painting. I find it tedious and boring.
6. I think that most many of the more modern dnd and reaper minis have a much better paint-job than the average painter can ever achieve.
7. Many of them are much cheaper than metal minis. I buy many typical mass minis (eg. an orc, skeleton or goblin) for under 50 cents at specialist shops on ebay.
8. Prepainted plastic minis are the future. Lead is the past.
So prepainted plastic minis (reaper or dnd) fullfill everything I want in minis. As pragmatic non-elitist I use them for play. And I need many of them because I play mainly dnd4 and Savage Worlds today and in some combats there are 50+ Minis on my gaming table. Minis are not art for me. IF I WANT ART I GO TO AN EXHIBITION.
There are valid and cheaper alternatives for plastic minis which are also interesting. Eg. the paper minis of One monk. The advantage of using paper minis instead of plastic is that you can always produce the perfect minis for your game by yourself in photoshop.
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Varnias Tybalt said:
Farin said:
healing SUCKS in 4E....horrible....ugh.....idk who designed that heal system but your characters can die within 2-3 rounds of combat with the right roles from the GM....just horrible....goshActually that sounds like a pretty sweet damage/healing system to me.
Combat SHOULD be dangerous business, for PC's and NPC's alike. It shouldn matter if you're just a normal human being, stocky, sturdy dwarf, or imba-elf with imba-skills. A big, sharp piece of steel through the gut WILL seriously injure you. And if the rules system ever let the player conveninetly "forget!" that fact, then that system is a bad one.
Why would you want a combat system where the risk of dying is at a minimum all the time?
Everything agreed except the thing about dnd4e. DnD4 is absolutlely NOT about having dangerous combats. There is no way that a character can die in 2-3 rounds like one poster wrote (whereever he has this strange opinion from - did he ever played it?). I played alot of DnD4 the last 1,5 years as GM till paragon tier and I can assure you DnD4 is the most epic and heroic game after exalted (or maybe scion) out there and you can find no grittyness in it. You can have dangerous and immersive combat encounters this is true, but if the DM follows the DMG its not gritty.
I always wondering that WH3 should be similar to dnd4. This is not true. One of the most important core element of 4th edition are the minis and the battlemaps. WH3 dont have rules for such things and thus it cannot be dnd4.
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Farin said:
i agree, i overreacted a bit, but i do feel that your attitute toward the game of " but Id rather no one like it." is rude and shows no respect to ANYONE in the development process.
Well, so you think that you owe respect to a representative of a company which shows not much respect to us? I have nothing personal against the developers BUT they are employed by a company which killed 2nd edition without giving any hint that they are the whole time in secret develope the 3rd edition. That was unfair and sneaky and they showed no respect to us, the players who liked 2nd ed and hoped for more stuff to come out. I show respect only to people which are respectable. FFG must first earn my goodwill again. If they achieve this, then maybe I will show respect to them, but not before.
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Armrek said:
superklaus said:
Yeah, but even better would be to ban all those fanatical fanboys who happily cry "hussah" if FFG burps green nurgle slime, into a seperate forum. So that those who have a well versed point of critique (like most old Warhammer fans) dont get bothered in their rantings.
I don't know about banning, but it would be refreshing with some constructive criticism. For my part I see this new game as any other RPG; you will eventually make house rules no matter how good or bad you think the system is. An RPG is a foundation for gaming and social fun, thats what it is...
Call me childish but:
After all I think Jay owes us a session demo video
Well constructive criticism is nice idea, and I prefer it usually to ranting, but for this edition it comes too late. Now we have to "eat the toad" (as we in our country say). They will not change anything in the design of the 3rd edition, so one have the choice to like it or to leave it. The only remaining hope is that it will be a financial failure, so they have an somewhat painful reason to remember never to tinker around with a well established rpg system and transforming it in Warhammer: the Gathering.
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Peacekeeper_b said:
In general I agree with you superklaus but I dont think it will be nearly as clunky as you describe.
Well the clunkyness could be the choice of my rather limited vocabulary. (english is not my native tongue) Sorry for this.
Peacekeeper_b said:
I think as many people have said, the cards in front of you is no real difference then a book. (However, its a lot harder to lose a book then a single card and all the sudden sorry folks, no more fireballs). The cards just take the place of looking up your skill or action or talent in the book everytime you use it.
If there is the same info on it, ok. But as the things are portrayed in the previews there is ALOT more info on the cards than it was ever in any book. Or do you think that a single talent where you get +5% toughness needs a card? I dont think so. But this is different in 3rd edition. In this ed. cards there are not just simple adds like +5%. As I said before, alone the divine favour card has half a dozen effects! So from a designers PoV not to put the effect description on a card would rather be foolish.
So 3rd ed. cards are in effect a good design solution for so many effects and much superior to any book. BUT (and this is a BIG but) what I think is the big mistake and the abominiation is the AMOUNT of effects a card like for example divination have. The sheer amount of effects is ridicolous and totally against the kind of smooth play 2nd edition offered. I really dont want to count beans or hammers or squirrels and staring on my half dozen open, non-tapped, power cards constantly only to spot every single hammer or squirrel or chaos slime blorp the dice are showing up and afterwards interpreting some odd effects in a given roleplaying situation. THIS is not a LCG where such spotting procedures are standard, its a RPG!
Peacekeeper_b said:
However, the tapping, recharge and other boardgame/card game/video game effects do bother me.
Yes another example that my rant is quite correct.
Peacekeeper_b said:
I dont think at all that this new system wont work, I just have no interest in it and would rather it failed and that FFG go by to (yes) my PRECIOUS 2nd EDITION.
Well I dont care if they go back to the 2nd edition. I dont think they ever will do. But I also hope that this 3rd ed. heresy will generate so few responses that they go straight ahead to a 4th edition which should be a worthy inheritor to the 2nd ed. without all these "tools" (which are not more than childish toys)
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cogollo said:
I also see WFRP3 giving a bit extra weight to combat situations and that scares me a bit.
It not only gives extra weight to combat situations. If you mean with extra weight extra rules and extra cards and extra counters, then EVERY aspect of roleplaying gets extra weight. Even simple things like climbing. The most extra weight get the rules in general. While 2nd ed. was not perfect it didnt stand in the way of roleplaying (aka portraying a character) and faded smoothly into the background. NOT so the 3rd edition rules. Did you look at the suppllied cards? There are HUNDREDS of them alone in the basic set. you have to look and focus at the abilities of those cards the WHOLE time during gaming instead of concentrating on roleplaying. Alone the godly favour card has half a dozen different effects on allies, enemies your horse and Kaiser Karl Franz. Much fun for anyone playing this abomination.
In 2nd edition combat sometimes was long, this is correct but it was easy to grasp and exciting. In 3rd edition a PC has to keep track of "x "(5 or 10 or even more?) combat power cards at the same time. No wonder that they are introducing henchmen rules. Its not only to let the PCs feel like heroes (which is BTW very warhammery
indeed) Imagine the mess the GM has when he has to keep full track of the powers of 12 normal non-minion enemies in a combat.Additionally you have to "tap" and "recharge" cards. Magic the Gathering anyone?
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doc_cthulhu said:
I hope that when the new edition is released this forum is cleaned. Old post could be moved to a folder "buhuus and whinies" so that when searching for older posts you wouldn't have to crawl through all of the opinions how this new edition is going to suck. Come on - there's 16 pages of these topic and the game isn't even released yet.
Just an idea though...
Yeah, but even better would be to ban all those fanatical fanboys who happily cry "hussah" if FFG burps green nurgle slime, into a seperate forum. So that those who have a well versed point of critique (like most old Warhammer fans) dont get bothered in their rantings.
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phobiandarkmoon said:
superklaus said:
PzVIE said:
I wanna say thank you to all you guys who explained these steam-things to me, but I'm still not sold to steam-driven helicopters or similar funny devices which were only invented to attract a broader audience (or sell more extremely cool-looking miniatures)... somehow that's a little bit too ridiculous for me!
Why restricting yourself? Steampunk devices have a proud tradition in WFRP. Well everybody to his own, but if you decide not to use them, you negate this aspect of the setting. Weird steam- or warppowered gadgets are one of the hallmarks of Warhammer. BTW: servas Landsmann.
Besides which, Steam Tank and Gyrocopters are really rare and, even if one is around, it's unlikely the PCs will get to interact with it. So just not involving them is fine.
phobiandarkmoon said:
superklaus said:
PzVIE said:
I wanna say thank you to all you guys who explained these steam-things to me, but I'm still not sold to steam-driven helicopters or similar funny devices which were only invented to attract a broader audience (or sell more extremely cool-looking miniatures)... somehow that's a little bit too ridiculous for me!
Why restricting yourself? Steampunk devices have a proud tradition in WFRP. Well everybody to his own, but if you decide not to use them, you negate this aspect of the setting. Weird steam- or warppowered gadgets are one of the hallmarks of Warhammer. BTW: servas Landsmann.
Besides which, Steam Tank and Gyrocopters are really rare and, even if one is around, it's unlikely the PCs will get to interact with it. So just not involving them is fine.
Well, with this argumentation you could also deny everything which is rare in the empire to the players. I find this boring. Ok maybe your players are just the type of players which do some river trade or plant some crops in the fields. My players are different. They ARE adventurers. They meet the unexpected and sometimes weird. ATM I have even an mad dwarfen inventor in my WH group who do the weird stuff ala McGiver. Different playing style I guess. But independently from the playing style, fact is that in the vanilla WH world as GW flashed it out, the steampunk devices do exist.
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PzVIE said:
I wanna say thank you to all you guys who explained these steam-things to me, but I'm still not sold to steam-driven helicopters or similar funny devices which were only invented to attract a broader audience (or sell more extremely cool-looking miniatures)... somehow that's a little bit too ridiculous for me!
Why restricting yourself? Steampunk devices have a proud tradition in WFRP. Well everybody to his own, but if you decide not to use them, you negate this aspect of the setting. Weird steam- or warppowered gadgets are one of the hallmarks of Warhammer. BTW: servas Landsmann.
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while I am quite sceptical after seeing the previews, I firstly think its a good thing that the setting will be fleshed out a little bit more (even if its only the reikland ATM) and secondly we will get new adventures and graphical impressions about the world. So even if you dont play the 3rd rules - because they are too "boardgamey" - you can take the parts of setting info, modules and graphics to include it in your 2nd ed. campaign.
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this price per page comparison is totally bogus. More important is the stuff inside a book and not the cost. Roleplaying is among the most cheap hobbies in western society, even at a price point of 100$ per book. so if one dont want to afford the box because of the price and not because of the content, then he is either greedy scrooge or an underpayed rat catcher who cannot afford the food for his vicious dog. And even if he is a teenager, he can ask his parents for the book as a birthday present. No excuses. 100$ is nothing compared to the fact that he can play the game once per week from now on untill he die for thousands of joyful hours.
The only question is rather if the content justifies the purchase. Is it fun or with its limited content (eg. supports only reiklanders etc.) just a boring card game joke? I am open to it. I will not buy it on release but I will visit my FLGS after they got it and browse through the rules. Then I will know if its worth any investment of my valuable time and energy.
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HedgeWizard said:
So yeah - GM'ed the entire campaign twice, and easily ran another 7 or 8 groups through Mistaken Identity + Shadows over the intervening years. I sincerely doubt that FFG is going to resurrect that campaign, but given that they have reverted the world timeline back to before the Storm of Chaos (great move in my opinion) then perhaps they're going to create a new, intrigue heavy, political power behind the scenes, subtle chaos, styled campaign for us to chew through.
The problem with this is that this topic is not very appealing to my group anymore today. Another chaos investigation? Again an intrigue of an insidious chaos cult? Boring and yawn. I would prefer a totally fresh style of adventure and not the same old story with other NPCs.
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Half elves in the chaotic Old world? Why not? No problem. Comes next to pink horrors and half-cockroaches.
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I played it in those days. The first 2 book shadows over bogenhafen and death on the reik have been very good, but from the third on it was not that good anymore. The best campaign ever written? No I dont think so, but it was a fine campaign (especially the first 2 parts) and also a classic. I would not buy it again for myself if FFG re-release it but it it would be a good move on behalf of potential 3rd edition newbies.
40 page instruction guide?
in Runewars
Posted
Hem said:
Same here. 40 pages only ? bring me a hundred pages one ! As I said in another thread (forgot where), one of the very first pleasure in present-times-games is - after opening the box and discovering and manipulating all of its wonderful components - to read and read and read the rules booklet night and day, in transports, in bed, and all. It is like a novel l
Well you dont think that a reason you dont find players are because of the thick rulebooks noone (except some extra nerds) want to learn?