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Tyraxus

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  1. Fgdsgf: Come on. I even linked you to the Dictionary. How can you fail reading rolls with a dictionary in hand and hours of time? That's at least a +80 adjustment right there. ==== Approval, noun. 1) The act of approving; approbation. 2) formal permission or sanction 3) (something involving stamp collecting, apparently) Approve, verb. 1) To speak or think favorably of; pronounce or consider agreeable or good; judge favorably. 2) To consent or agree to. 3) To confirm or sanction formally; ratify. 4) (various obsolete meanings) I think you're meaning approval to mean "thinking favourably of," while I'm meaning "to formally grant permission or sanction." Part of it is that I work with the government, where approval means someone formally agreeing with a document or decision (or at least saying the documented chain of reasoning is sound). ==== On new ships and parts: I think you're right in several cases but not across the board. Entirely new classes of ships are created and sanctioned: see battlecruisers as a type and the Ambition class cruiser in BFK (which are described as "shining new vessels"). I fully agree that ships so badly damaged that they can't have their hulls repaired and are sent to the breakers have parts reused in new builds, but think on this: with all the ships that have exploded in action, lost in the warp, away on extended patrols, and taking into account how parts wear out over normal use, is it really reasonable to assume that the net number of ships in the Imperial Fleet (or hell, in Imperial space) is decreasing? Is it reasonable with all the in-universe descriptions we have of massive fleets being raised for crusades, let along to fight Tyranid incursions or Ork Waaaghs, to think that these fleets are only being raised because ships are being broken and salvaged at the same rate/time? Is it reasonable to think that the Mechanicus doesn't know how to make macrocannons, when we have examples of entire Forgeworlds being given over to their manufacture? "The Imperium can't make new parts" might make for a good bit of grimdark, but it fails to live up to even the tiny bit of internal consistency the 40k universe has. ==== Faith in the Omnissiah is pretty much the only faith on Forgeworlds, and the DH and RT books bear this out. Why else would Forgeworlders have "Stranger to the Cult"? For the common masses, it's close enough to get by, but there are striking enough differences between the creeds to result in mechanical penalties for Forgeworlders.
  2. Tyraxus said: I actually see Arbites and even Inquisitors on Forgeworlds as Stasi agents* Should be see them as Stasi agents in Moscow. Stupid lack of an edit function.
  3. Yes, the Treaty of Mars happened way before the Inquisition, and it recognized Mars and Mars's colonies as a separate empire allied with the Emperour's dominions. So Imperial thought police (the =I=) may or may not have jurisdiction. Like I said, it's a point of legal debate in my universe when I'm running the game. I liken it to the pre-'78 KGB in East Germany: they may not have any formal power, but it would result in a serious international incident if the Stasi ever decided to push it. I actually see Arbites and even Inquisitors on Forgeworlds as Stasi agents: there to monitor Imperial citizens (scribes of the Adeptus Terra, Ecclesiarchs, etc), without any official power over citizens of the Mechanicum, but with such a close working relationship that if they see anything they can go ahead and take action and get it validated/ratified through diplomatic channels later. And yes, I know what approval means: formal permission, implying that without said permission the action needing approval would either be against the law/policy/rules or simply not happen. I argue that the Priesthood Mars runs an entirely separate religion from that of the Ecclesiarchy, and neither need nor desire permission to do anything technology related since that's their portfolio by treaty with the Emperour himself.
  4. I'm loving this discussion, but in the interests of not derailing the thread any further, I've reposted our conversation in its own thread in the main RT forum: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=123&efcid=3&efidt=572655
  5. In the interests of not derailing an existing thread (and soliciting more discussion ) I'm breaking a discussion out into a new thread. Unfortunately, the forum's... ehm, peculiar mechanics don't take well to quoting a couple of posts into a new thread, so here's the link to the old one: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=161&efcid=3&efidt=547300 A couple of us (myself, Fgdsgf, and ItsUncertainWho) got into a tangent regarding the Mechanicum in the Imperium of Man, its place, power, and authority. I'm going to try to repost the tangent: Fgdsgf: As far as I am concerned, in the Imperium, there is no such thing as a "new ship". All ships are basically refits of older ships that are repairs of even older ships that are copies of copies of copies from the antiquated scrapyards of the Dark Age of Technology. The only "new" ship that they ever get are reassemblies of older ships, or scrap, by the Adeptus Mechanicus, straight from Forge Worlds, using techniques that are likely guarded jealousy, with the approval of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition. To get a hold of the appropriate sanctions, the appropriate warrants and papers alone is a baffling task beyond comprehension. Add to that access to facilities and a documented, approved AdMech workforce. If I were the GM, I'd consider letting them "construct" a "new" ship, but it would likely have to be with the seedier clientele of the Imperium, such as pirate Voidstations and mechanics and so on - and it would be a major undertaking, worthy of a campaign on it's own, involving the entire group, not simply a few rolls, money and a fast-forward time period. As for "new" weapons, xeno refits, armors, batteries, etc; Go wild. Just remember that you set the boundaries and that you have to be able to say "No". ===== Tyraxus: Sure there are new ships. The Cobra class destroyer is described as being the closest thing the Imperium has to a mass-produced starship, with a decent shipyard able to turn one out in a scant few years. Fgdsfg, why would the Ecclesiarchy need to approve of a new ship? While the Mechanicus and Ecclesiarchy can overlap in many areas, why would the construction of a new war machine be one of them? Sure, priests would bless chapels and other various chambers, I don't see why the Priesthood of Mars would need to ask permission of the Priesthood of Terra to do what they do, any more than the Departmento Munitorum would ask the Ecclesiarchy's permission to invade a rebelling world or the Administratum to colonize a new one. ===== Fgdsgf: I did not mean the Ecclesiarchy's approval of ships specifically, but rather the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus religiously controls virtually all technology and it's applications, with the approval of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition. They don't need to ask permission. They already have all the permissions they could possibly need. Screw around with the Adeptus Mechanicus and you're effectively screwing around with the Ministorum by proxy - and so by extension, the Inquisition. Illegally building ships from scratch is likely all kinds of heresy all over the charts. ===== ItsUncertainWho: The Mechanicus controlls all technology by treaty with the Emperor. The Ecclesiarchy has nothing to do with it and has no power over the Mechanicus. ===== Tyraxus: This. The Mechanicus is technically an allied empire, not part of the Imperium, although they've grown so intertwined over thousands of years that the joins are effectively seamless. Hell, it's questionable whether even an Inquisitor retains his suite of powers on a Forgeworld via right of his station or via recriprocity granted by the Treaty of Mars (and I'm sure there's some in-universe debate whether a Magos of a Forgeworld would be within his rights to tell an Inquisitor "Shove off, I'll take care of this, this is Mechanicus soil" or not; in games I run the Magos most certainly can but generally won't due to politics). ===== Fgdsgf: Since multiple people seem to be failing their comprehension rolls: Approval. (Tyraxus edit: Link broke during transit, it's a link to dictionary.com, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/approval?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic) The Treaty of Mars predates the formation of the Inquisition by far. The Treaty of Mars was formed at the eve of the Imperium, while the Inquisition rose from the ashes of the Horus Heresy. I would say that the Treaty of Mars would not afford the AdMech any exemption from the Inquisition, nor would it stipulate that the Inquisition -do- have authority; I think the Inqusition by large depends on their carte blanche over Imperium subjects. So I would say the absolute opposite - The Inquisition could most absolutely crack down on the Adeptus Mechanicus or a forge world of their choice, but likely wouldn't, out of fear of the AdMech or Magos in question throwing a bitchfit over the whole thing. Just like between the Space Marines and the Inquisition, I think there's a lot of "Why don't you just piss off?" between the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Edit: I want to take this opportunity to again voice my hatred for the forum software. The quotes are broken and there's no way for me to fix it.
  6. ItsUncertainWho said: Fgdsfg said: I did not mean the Ecclesiarchy's approval of ships specifically, but rather the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus religiously controls virtually all technology and it's applications, with the approval of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition. They don't need to ask permission. They already have all the permissions they could possibly need. The Mechanicus controlls all technology by treaty with the Emperor. The Ecclesiarchy has nothing to do with it and has no power over the Mechanicus. This. The Mechanicus is technically an allied empire, not part of the Imperium, although they've grown so intertwined over thousands of years that the joins are effectively seamless. Hell, it's questionable whether even an Inquisitor retains his suite of powers on a Forgeworld via right of his station or via recriprocity granted by the Treaty of Mars (and I'm sure there's some in-universe debate whether a Magos of a Forgeworld would be within his rights to tell an Inquisitor "Shove off, I'll take care of this, this is Mechanicus soil" or not; in games I run the Magos most certainly can but generally won't due to politics).
  7. Sure there are new ships. The Cobra class destroyer is described as being the closest thing the Imperium has to a mass-produced starship, with a decent shipyard able to turn one out in a scant few years. Fgdsfg, why would the Ecclesiarchy need to approve of a new ship? While the Mechanicus and Ecclesiarchy can overlap in many areas, why would the construction of a new war machine be one of them? Sure, priests would bless chapels and other various chambers, I don't see why the Priesthood of Mars would need to ask permission of the Priesthood of Terra to do what they do, any more than the Departmento Munitorum would ask the Ecclesiarchy's permission to invade a rebelling world or the Administratum to colonize a new one.
  8. Here's one that's a bit specific, but for Seneschals (and just to watch in general), I wholeheartedly recommend 1959's Operation Petticoat with Cary Grant and Tony Curtis. It's a WWII comedy revolving around an ill-fated submarine in the Pacific Theater. Grant's character, LTCMDR Sherman (the boat's captain) does a decent Rogue Trader bit, but honestly, Curtis's LTJG Nick Holden just screams Seneschal to me. An illustration from the movie's IMDB entry: LTCMDR Sherridan: Where is Lt. Holden? Lt. Watson: When the air raid started they took off. All he said was, "in confusion there is profit." It's not a 40k movie by a long shot, but it's good for some character inspiration I think.
  9. On the topic of cookie-cutter characters and tweaks, here's something I've used to decent effect. Every player that gives you a backstory gets "freebies" for his/her character based on said backstory. Go with what works for you, but I generally hand out 2-3 "skill steps"... basic skills get trained, advanced skills become basic skills for that character. I've substituted logical equipment in place of a skill step if something strikes me (sometimes even giving Good or Best Quality stuff, making it clear that these items are dear to the character and should not be parted with). For example, in my current game, I have a voidborn Tech-Priest who grew up on a station orbiting a cometary body in the outskirts of the Calixis sector. Several other Tech-Priests around (it was a Tech-fiefdom, in fact), but they primarily studied orbital mechanics. So, not being interested in that, he studied with the station Biologis. Result? He gets Medicae as a basic skill for free. Also, his mother (another Tech-Priest) was killed during a raider attack. He asked if, in lieu of anything else, he could have a servo-skull. Sure, no problem, one servo skull with nothing in it, because it makes sense for a Tech-Priest to have one and he gave me a good reason. Another example, same game. I have a Metallican Gunslinger Scum whose backstory is basically that he was a member of a minor noble house that was taken out by a rival house... but said rival house used warp sorcery to do it. He, not knowing that, swore vengeance, and broke into their manor to get evidence to take to the planetary enforcers, and wound up coming across cult paraphernalia. He took that to the Arbites, and the Arbites stormed the manor and executed the nobles they could find. So I gave him a best quality autopistol in place of his regular one, Forbidden Lore - Cults as a basic skill... and a watered-down version of the Noble homeworld drawback from the Inquisitor's Handbook (he didn't take that homework because he said he wasn't a noble anymore because his entire house had been destroyed). So yeah, it's the little things that can really set starter characters apart. And they don't have to be incredibly overwhelming. (GM Tip: They don't even have to come up much! Sometimes just having something on the sheet is enough for a player to feel like his character is different from the other six trillion guardsmen out there). Speaking of the Scum... the income system in this game is messed up, especially for the non-Noble Scum out there. There are horror stories about Scum being unable to afford ammo for their guns, let alone have any kind of bribe money to get information out of anybody. I recommend normalizing income across careers quickly, or at least giving them some kind of stipend. It may be a meta-game dynamic, but nothing sucks quite like being out of bullets and unable to afford more while the Tech-Priest sits on several hundred thrones, but won't help out any because he's scrimping and saving for his mechadendrites.
  10. One thing that I do whenever I start a 40k rpg campaign is to read the "standard 40k intro" that is in the front of many of the novels. You know the one: To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods. Sets the mood nicely, I've found, and can give the group chills if you do it in your best Darth Vader voice Add to that something extra to focus on the specific pieces of the setting that you want to highlight and bam! You're good to go.
  11. Actually, there are some. DH main rulebook, page 132, lower left hand corner. I stand corrected, thank you. Seems a little odd to me that they'd put it in the weapons section but not the ammo section; that's probably why I didn't notice it. i did and how was your ansore better? you said the same thing! You did not. The question was "Where can I find X?" You answered the question "How does X work?" While that may be what's in the book (and for the record, the book doesn't list times, just saying it's up to the GM based on the power output of the source), what if he's a player that needs a page reference to show his GM, or a GM that needs a page to point a rules-lawyering player toward? What if he's a GM that wants a fluff perspective with the mind toward crafting houserules? In any of those cases, which are perfectly logical for the question asked, you've given no help at all. While I admit I didn't give correct information (my apologies, OP), I did attempt to actually address what was asked rather than answering something that wasn't.
  12. Sure, developing new technology is tech-heresy, but bullet technology is pretty standard. Primer, powder, casing, slug. And recombinations of existing technology is generally okay, as long as the discrete parts aren't new. For example, adding a scope to a rifle isn't tech heresy, because you have two distinct pieces of tech, the scope and the rifle, and you're just using them together. Replacing one scope with another likewise isn't tech heresy because you're just changing the combination of discrete pieces. So why would developing a new cartridge from existing parts (again: primer, powder, casing, slug) be any different? For example, taking the slug out of a naval pistol cartridge (tearing quality) and putting it in a hand cannon cartridge (casing, primer, powder) isn't doing anything "new." If the Imperium discovered a planet of humans using bullets like this, I doubt the Tech-Priests would take much notice. So why would they if it showed up on a hive? Now, the problem comes when you do too much tinkering and need a new chamber to accept your new cartridge. THAT's when you might get into tech heresy (depending on your local Magos), because you're redesigning an existing pattern in a large way. Remember, though, that Gunmetal City takes great stock in their firearms and gunsmiths. So gunsmithing itself isn't tech heresy, at least on Scintilla. You probably need a license, but a dozen Secutors aren't going to bust into your workshop and gun you down without one, you'd likely get a visit from a Tech-Adept and he'd demand you pay the tax on your trade.
  13. redhead222 said: priest and scum are fun in that they can get your party into places with talking insaid of blowing away those that stand in your way. how ever minor down side not everybody will be happy too see ether in there social groep (high don`t like low and low don`t like high) Best of both worlds: Noble-born (homeworld from the Inquisitor's Handbook) Scum. Gets all the Scum Fellowship advances, plus Peer: Nobility and another Peer talent chosen from a list and Noble monthly income (500/month). For party support, take Barter and make your free Peer talent Peer: Merchants. Cheap Fel advances, +10 to Fel checks with merchants (which Barter is), and higher income than anybody in the party means whatever it is you're looking for, you can find it, haggle the price down, and buy it on the spot. Back on-topic: You have the general swing of the games right (investigate to find the heresy, then combat to eliminate it), but you're not taking the setting into account, which is why you don't see the utility of the Adept, Cleric and Tech-Priest. Remember the Imperium is a highly fragmented, codependent setup. There are really three main powers in the Imperium: the Administratum (the government bureaucracy, filled with Adepts), the Mechanicum (in charge of any and all technology higher than a hammer, filled with Tech-Priests), and the Ministorum or Ecclesiarchy (the Church, filled with Clerics). Each has a "separate but equal" kind of relationship with the others, complete with power plays, squabbles, intrigue, etc. What does that mean? Imagine you're investigating the murder of a bishop in Hive Sibellus on Scintilla. You go to talk to the fathers at the cathedral, but you don't have a Cleric in your group. Now further imagine that the bishop was murdered by elements of the Lord Governor Subsector's secret police for whatever reasons, and they threatened the fathers to not talk. How hard is it going to be to get them to talk to someone from their own branch of the Imperium? Pretty hard, right, maybe a -10 or -20. But wait, you don't have a Cleric. That difficulty jumps to -30 or -40, because they're definitely not going to risk their lives to talk to a random group of people off the street. Want to investigate the hive's data stacks? Adepts make it oh so much easier to get in. Need to identify what kind of techno-sorcery was used to get into the manufactorum (or get in yourself after hours without tipping off the machine spirits of the watcher devices)? Better have a Tech-Priest. However, you are right that Arbitrators are wonderful to have around. But their number one utility (at least in the early game) is a simple piece of starting kit: the Arbitrator ID. With that ID/Badge, you wield all kinds of authority over the common citizens of the Imperium, and a decent bit over everybody. As a member of the Adeptus Arbites, you have legal jurisdiction over every single Imperial citizen that isn't a Tech-Priest or a member of the Ecclesiarchy (Arbites are the lawgivers, enforcers, and internal affairs division of the Adeptus Terra; in fact, a high-ranking Judge wields power on par with that of an Inquisitor). If the situation in question violates Imperial Law (dealing mainly with rebellion and the Imperial Tithe), then the Arbitrator has a case for wielding authority over even Tech-Priests and Clerics as well, though that gets into those power struggles I talked about. So, yeah. Dark Heresy is all about situation and modifiers. Having the right "class" in the right place at the right time can turn something that's impossible to do into something that's pretty easy. Cleric trying to get through a sealed blast door? Not gonna happen. Tech-Priest in his situation? Lights some incense, says a prayer to the machine spirit, pops open an access panel, crosses two wires, and soothes the spirit by annointing the machinery with sacred machine oil (Tech-Use +10, or maybe even Trade: Wright +20).
  14. Way to not answer his question. If you're looking in the sourcebooks (Black Library fluff), it's all through the Gaunt's Ghosts books by Dan Abnett, plus the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer they put out a while back, I think one or two of the Cain novels by Sandy Mitchell, maybe some others. Basically it works how redhead222 said: plug them in for a bit, or throw them in a fire (though not for a full day as far as I'm aware, I always thought it was an hour or two in the fire) if you're willing to risk the chance of malfunction/explosion. If you're looking for specific rules out of the core books, I'm not aware of any, so recharging laspacks effectively becomes a very common house rule.
  15. Barring optional/houserules, firing FA into a melee is just fine, beyond the -20 for firing into melee canceling out the +20 for full auto. Cover can be an issue, yes, but if the bad guy is shooting at you, he's going to have, at a minimum, his head and arm (or arms in the case of a basic weapon) exposed. Which, in turn, means a 30% chance of actually hitting an exposed body part with a spray, and only needing 3 hits (2DoS) to hit an exposed arm with a body hit (40% chance), and the next hit walks to the head which is also uncovered. Without a base BS to work with you can't really calculate the real odds, but that's still pretty good. And, if he's not shooting at you, then that gives you a round for tactical movement to negate his cover, or shoot his buddies who ARE shooting at you. FA is king in this game, and anything that brings SS or SA anywhere close to balance with it can only be a good thing.
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