Quileurbist said: I am really confused about heavy weapons and bracing... It is said in the bracing action (p238) that a heavy weapon must be braced to be used without a -30 BS. (same precision as on page 140) First question : what happens when a Heavy Flamer is fired without bracing? Like when fired without the talent? (=> +30 for the Ag test to escape the flames?) A Space Marine with Bulging biceps (p. 114, and all characters get it freely), does not need to brace such a Heavy weapon to fire in semi-auto or full auto. Second question : Firing a Lascannon (or Plasma Cannon, or Missile launcher, etc.) means (because of single shot), that you still have -30BS if not braced? Thrid question : what could be the possible use of the "Bring Death from Afar" on page 162, because one of its effect is to give precisely what happens with Bulging Biceps ("Additionaly, the wearer may count any heavy weapon he wields as a basic weapon for the purposes of moving and firing on semi- or full-automatic fire")? Your first question is moot, as all space marines do not need to brace. As they have bulging biceps. Your second question is moot because you do not need to brace to fire it. third question. Your armor makes it so that you can move and shoot your weapon with a lower negative modifer. I see that if a marine stands still and fires, he is effectively braced because of his increased strength and so forth. If he moves and shoots, he will take negative mods to his BS as he is not aiming as much as he moves . the Bring Death from Afar means that you count your heavy weapon as a basic weapon as you move and shoot and bulging biceps does not cover a heavy weapon being able to move and shoot, which it is normally not allowed. Basically the Bulging biceps means your space marine can stand and fire his heavy weapon without modifing his BS for not bracing, as effectively his muscles do the bracing. In real life a man would have to lie the gun down and fire, place it on a tripod and fire, or a bipod. A space marine does not. The armor modifier means that he can shoot and move at the same time, and not suffer as bad a modifer as a normal marine for doing so.

kenshin138 said: Ranek7212 said: After being banned by bolter and chainsword mods, (I made a commit that if they couldn't grow up and act like they had a pair that they should quite playing 40k. A little childish I know but geez this is a PC world we live in) I realized how pointless nerd rage really is. Whether its about the female space marine issue, the Squats (which GW shafted by the way...), or people hopping to a new codex Not even of their army and claiming it was.... All pointless. Glad a good lesson was learned here. < B&C member #7, Mod since August 8 2002. It wasn't you who banned me. I forgot who it was. Needless to say man I try to keep foul words out. Still If my words offend people or my options, then I have little sympathy for them. If my Words cut so deep as get someone to call up the mods cause they can't defend their point and the smallest comment upsets them, (I initally got yelled out for telling a poster he is acting like a spoiled 12 year whos parents told him he can't play halo.) then so be it. I do not agree with all the mods rules and so forth. Some I can understand, others are pointless( some people need to be more mature, and when that is lacking on both sides of the argument, and only one is punished I lose more of my temper. Yes I have admitted to be Immature.), so after I was told i was to be nice and make pretty with the one I upset, I just left and was told I was banned a week later by one of the mods. ::Shrugs:: Anyway, another Nerd Rage Topic! 1. Leman russ being the only one to beat horus before he became corrupted. 2. The True nature of the Lion and the Wolf Rivery. 3. Length and crew of the Cruisers. 4. Who can beat who....Logan Grimnar or Calgar. 5. Why should I care about any of the above questions.... I really enjoy the number 4 topic, I know the math hammer in it, and I know it was played out many times in the B&C threads. (Sometimes I just lurk the threads nowdays.) The Nerd Rage it gives some players make me smile and then ask them why they are getting so worked up about it. First thing is that Grimnar and calgar are one opposite ends of the galaxy, and so would most likely never meet each other. Secondly Calgar is the best when dealing Tyrainds and those Pestky little blue socialists. While Grimnar is the best at keeping the Cadian gate and eye of terror taken care of. (Let us all wipe the memory of that one world wide campgain, the eye of terror. For they found out a few months later that people were giving false reports, so they have left it at a stalemate with neither the forces of order getting an upper hand or the forces of chaos getting the upper hand.)

KommissarK said: One houserule I am considering is allowing players to spend personal renown in order to gain what is effectively requisition as per signature wargear. Like allow them to spend 5 renown and get 40 requisition to add to their personal gear. Its good as it allows them to take what they want for longer term, but in so doing decreases their rate of access to cooler toys. I can see it having issues at late game (post hero) renown ranks though (they just start buying everything until mission requisition is pointless). Or heavy use of oath of glory to get as much renown as they can. Let us know how that goes, I can see it be abused though. Still it depends on your players really. Mine would easily abuse it as it is right there to be abused.

cliffetters said: Don't forget the old trope: "Do Space Marines have junk, and does it still function?" I think that this one is second only to "Female Space Marines" in bringing the pain. Of course that means that the question "Do Female Space Marines have junk and does it still function?" would be the penultimate singularity of Nerd-gasmic Rage. EDIT: Actually almost any topic concerning sexual reproduction turns into a frothing-at-the-mouth, crazy-eyed rant. I've seen threads about Ork reproduction that devolved into shouting matches of 'THEY'RE SPORES DAMMIT!" and "NO THEY'RE NOT, BECAUSE IT WASN'T THAT WAY IN ROGUE TRADER!" Both points very true. The ork question. I just say hang the sense of it and move on. After all the only true thing about the 40k Universe is that at the end of the day, the Orks are going to WAAAAGH!

I agree. Especially if the player was very attractive, or at the very least I could get along with. Those that say otherwise are lying to themselves.

I got the same thing for my first edition of exalted:lunars. Also got it like that for my 2nd edition dragon blooded book. Which I got 50% from a WW vender at a con.

There is that Idea that you could use as well. Still what specialty would he be, most are grey hunters, though a few blood claws and most likely Long fangs have done it. Which is why I have some issue with the space wolf Tactical marine not being better or having higher stats then an Assualt space wolf. Unless all of them happen to be from the wolf guard first. And Rune Priests....well I dont have the time to get into that right now.

Nerd Rage? Really...Still kills me when people rage of the dumbest <censored by Inquisition>. Like Female Marines....Who cares! Really... the world is not going to end if someone wants to play a female marine, but some people here tend to think so. And yes I know plenty of people in real life who are the same. Still people who Nerd Rage over such stuff normally get seen as not worth playing with, especially if the GM of a game is afraid that the player is going to blow a gasket if his Techpriests look more human than in the normal fluff. Small potatoes really. So as for the nerd rage topic or controversy I say only those who can't get over it let it get to them. Real experience: I know what is like to have something you love tainted and potentially nerd rage inducing. For example, On bolter and chainsword a while back, the Space Wolf codex came out. Now the DA players...Dark angel players, became upset as they saw that the Space wolves could do a pure terminator army. They started to reword some of the codex to suit their needs and wants and within the rules of that codex came up with an army that they said was still Dark Angels but used only the Space Wolf codex. This got me so mad, Not joking, as I had waited for 10 years for a new Space Wolf codex, only to see it being abused by the Dark Angel fans (not all of them mind you, just those who saw something new and wanted it for themselves.) The most upseting part was that for 10 years I stuck to the old codex, never played or used another codex (Except the space marine one, and only because my book did not have the rules for some of the weapons and all the vehicles, which the old codex said to refer to the space marine codex), Here were some players who had not waited more then 2 years for new one and were jumping ship. I nerd raged and flipped out.... After being banned by bolter and chainsword mods, (I made a commit that if they couldn't grow up and act like they had a pair that they should quite playing 40k. A little childish I know but geez this is a PC world we live in) I realized how pointless nerd rage really is. Whether its about the female space marine issue, the Squats (which GW shafted by the way...), or people hopping to a new codex Not even of their army and claiming it was.... All pointless. You can't change their opinion and all you do is make those less secure about themselves more <Censored by Inquisition> Hurt then normal. After all, we geeeks only have our Fantasy and sci fi worlds to escape in. (I know and this was a we to inculde myself.)

I can see that being the reason they left out the Shadow of the hive mind.

ITs not shame, in a sense. Its more that he is the last of his pack. Having seen his friends die, and being left alone is strange for a wolf. So in this case he decides to join his lost brothers sooner in the halls of Russ. But he wants to have a great tale of fighting a dangerous creature or enemy so he tries to face it alone. This is more like Norse traditions, a warrior dying bravely against a great creature, even if losing he is ensured a place in the halls of Heroes. I dont think a lone wolf would work well with a team of Deathwatch. Mainly that they are not part of a squad and thus cant use squad abilities.

Face Eater said: ak-73 said: Wargamer said: GalagaGalaxian said: ak-73 said: Howdy! How about 1d100 (or 1d50 if you're a limp-wristed and not a tough he-man GM) Insanity/corruption points? How about 10d10+10 points to be split amongst Insanity and Corruption at the player's preference? WHy? CP have no effect on space marines until they reach 100 at which point the character is removed from play so adding a bunch of CP at character gen is just artificially shortening the characters life. It should become a threat for them given their background, yes. And personally I am of the opinion that a future supplement should add rules making marines more susceptible to Chaos once they cross the 50 points barrier. Yes, Marines are specially selected to resist the lure. But once they reach that barrier (or let's say 66 points if you want to) a daemon or two might start to notice. House Rule suggestion: PCs who commit to not wearing a helmet (unless atmospheric conditions necessitate it) gain an additional karma point and an additional renown point per mission. Alex ak-73 said: It should become a threat for them given their background, yes. And personally I am of the opinion that a future supplement should add rules making marines more susceptible to Chaos once they cross the 50 points barrier. Yes, Marines are specially selected to resist the lure. But once they reach that barrier (or let's say 66 points if you want to) a daemon or two might start to notice. I think some of the chapters should be more susceptable than others, such as Dark Angels and Space Wolves (of the starting ones), to corruption. I thought SoB were supposed be Inocorrupable too but they have to not get any where as Space Marines can be summoning deamons all day long so long as they stop short of that 10th one, something not quite right there. Face Eater said: I think some of the chapters should be more susceptable than others, such as Dark Angels and Space Wolves (of the starting ones), to corruption. I thought SoB were supposed be Inocorrupable too but they have to not get any where as Space Marines can be summoning deamons all day long so long as they stop short of that 10th one, something not quite right there. The Dark Angels, maybe or maybe not, they are too paranoid to tell the truth of it. The Space Wolves not so much. Remember that the 13th company of Space Wolves have Survived in the Eye of Terror for over 10000 years. The problem is that Corruption or Taint of Chaos has a different effect on Space Wolves in the Fluff. First they become more beastial as the Wulfen fights off the taint, becoming more Wulfen in nature. This keeps them from being tainted and becoming chaos marines. Not saying that they can't become one, despite how distasteful it is, but to say they are more suspectiable to taint is incorrect as well then say the Ultramarines or Blood angels. The bottom line is that they become Wulfen, not plague or khorne marines. They will still fight chaos, but do it better when led by a wolf priest or rune priest. As for being Easily distracted....Well I do run around the house yelling ,"Fluffy tail!" And "Squirel!" With my dog.

Lucius Valerius said: Ranek7212 said: One thing I will be changing is the ultramarines Favored Son Ability. It will effect only non-first Founding Chapters. So all your orginal Chapters will be uneffected by an ultramarine. However they get +10 to influence chapters that came from them, and a normal roll against Imperial authorities. Reason for this is do you think a Space Wolf, Dark Angel, Blood Angel, Give a rats <Censored by Inquisition> about the ultramarine trying to pull the, "My Daddy is bigger then your Daddy!" tactic against them? Space wolves would laugh. Dark angels may cut themselves in anger, or punch the ultramarine (Hey Lion did it to Russ.). Blood Angels Do not care, as at least their primarch went down swinging at Horus. Where was Robut Gulliman, thats right licking his wounds! <Prepares himself for the Ultramarine fanboy attacks.(has a good natured rivalry with them, no hate.> Horus was so scared of the Ultramarines, the first thing he did was send them on an ambush too keep them busy while he did what he wanted on Terra. Same of the Space Puppies. Cept when they were done with the Thousand Sons, they left straight for Terra, and Horus was so scared of them (and the DA) that he made a fatal mistake.

One thing I will be changing is the ultramarines Favored Son Ability. It will effect only non-first Founding Chapters. So all your orginal Chapters will be uneffected by an ultramarine. However they get +10 to influence chapters that came from them, and a normal roll against Imperial authorities. Reason for this is do you think a Space Wolf, Dark Angel, Blood Angel, Give a rats <Censored by Inquisition> about the ultramarine trying to pull the, "My Daddy is bigger then your Daddy!" tactic against them? Space wolves would laugh. Dark angels may cut themselves in anger, or punch the ultramarine (Hey Lion did it to Russ.). Blood Angels Do not care, as at least their primarch went down swinging at Horus. Where was Robut Gulliman, thats right licking his wounds! <Prepares himself for the Ultramarine fanboy attacks.(has a good natured rivalry with them, no hate.>

Gantz the slaughterer said: one suggest... to remove the betcher gland implant....the space wolf had lost that advantage..... I believe in the book, Ragnar's Claw, Sven Bletched some acid into an orks face, some time around when they were in the city. If memory is correct that is. If it is not, well I don't plan on getting to up set about it. After all do you really think Favored Son ability would work on a Space wolf? Ultramarine: You will listen to me because my primach is Robut Gulliman, creator of the codex! Also my geneseed is pure! Space Wolf: <chugs a mead and burps> What was that? A Smurf Speaking... <Makes talking motion with hand> OH right...Gulliman. Well my primarch is Leman Russ, and he says <Censored by inquisition> Gullimans little roll of Toilet paper.

Atheosis said: Questionable Methods said: It's a game. People are there to have fun. Let them. That's my stance, anyway. I agree. Though the fun of all must be considered. Someone playing a female Astartes would honestly hinder my fun. Either that or your too hung up on Cannon to have fun, which is stupid because no game is 100% cannon anyway.

UncleArkie said: I am Tactical Brother Steinulfri "Foehammer" son of Sonrri, son of Grimnir, Son of Hrafen son of Skjinir taker of the krakens head, vanquisher of the Goretooth warleader. Former of the black bear tribe, bearer of the 5th company standard, ect, ect, story to follow Space wolves do not have standard companies. They have Great companies. Each named after their wolf lord and his totem wolf standard. Thus you have Engir Krakendoom's Great Company, with the Totem of the sea Wolf. Or Bran Redmaw's great Company with the totem wolf of the Blooded Hunter.

Questionable Methods said: It's a game. People are there to have fun. Let them. That's my stance, anyway. True enough!

First as to the Rof with a Bolter or any other weapon. The military teaches that if you can do something with less, you do it. 'One Shot, One Kill' was what I was taught, and that was in boot camp. Not a sniper, but I never put my weapon on burst. As to the squad and solo modes. If something doesn't make sense to me, I wont follow it, if I am running a game that is. Sorry, its not the bible. As to more tables for random names and past histories...really? If you need those for helping to make your character then I feel sorry for you. I may use it to get a better Idea or feeling for a character, but I almost never need them. Use your imagination. Sorry if I upset you, but I call it as I see it. You will most likely get more tables with additional supplements. I just dont want to have a game like hackmaster or one of those other games which have a table for everything under the sun. I shouldn't have to remember tables.

Who cares. If someone lets someone play a female marine in his or her game, then that is up to that GM. So arguing about whether or not the game is a true cannon Deathwatch game is also pointless. Let me explain why it is pointless. You make a character, your friends make a character. Each of those characters are NON-CANNON! Why? Because none of those characters are going to be in offical story written by GW. Sure you might pick a name of a Cannon Marine...still not the same thing. Also Some of the rules do not make sense. Why would a Space Wolf give more stock to what an Ultramarine says then a Blood Angel? He wouldn't. He wouldn't care about Robert Gulliman's 'pure' Geneseed. Why? Because space wolves are very independent and don't Care about what an ultramarine says. ****.... they dont care if they piss off the churchies or Inquisitors. The Issue I have with all the Arguing is that it is detracting from players to just have fun. Would I let a female play a female space marine. I really can't say, not with out some addition background. That is because NO GAME of DEATHWATCH Will BE 100% CANNON! For those who think so I feel sorry for you, because you can't live in the real world, were compromise is the norm. Bring Politicial issues into this discussion is also pointless because it takes away from the fun of it. Calling people lefties or righties is childish. I am a conservitive, but I don't let it get in the way of me having harmless fun playing a board game or miniture game or RPG. I play these games to get away from the politics, headaches, and troubles of the real world. For those of you who agree with me, sorry for the long post. For those who dont agree with me, sorry for wasting your time. Just remember that this game is for fun, and that sometimes you must suspend your belief or Cannon so that others can have fun as well. Ranek PS. Let us place this argument aside, at least till the end of the Wolftime my brothers. For in the end the emperor will need every able warrior, man or woman, at that time.

I should have my book by tonight, will post the character at that time. Still thinking about the path of the character, might have to do a long fang or a grey hunter. Then again a sky Claw is also just as good.....

BloodAngelAzrael said: StormKnight said: There are no female Marines. What is so hard about that to grasp? You're wrong. I've run homebrew RPGs with female marines. I've seen them in 40K games, in Space Hulk games, and in Epic 40K games. I've even had a RPG with a female primarch. People have been making female marine armies back to Rogue Trader days. I've even got a magazine with a published scenario that has a female marine chapter in it. There ARE female Space Marines, whether you want to stick your head in the sand try to protect your ego by pretending they don't exist or not. Riiiiiiight.... and I suppose Orks have genitalia too? Those examples are all player-made and would entirely **** up the game from a consistency standpoint. For the record, you can do whatever you like in homebrewed games, because they're ******* HOMEBREWED, I am seriously mad that people are so mad over this **** thing. YOU CAN HAVE THEM IF YOU WANT BUT THE WON'T BE IN THE ******* BOOK! Dude chill out man. ITS JUST A GAME! Let others do what they want in the realm of RPGs and homebrewed. But you sir seem to take things personally... LIke as if someone kicked your dog into a speeding semi-truck....on your birthday...

major shultz said: Howdy! Woman can't be Space Marines, and Men can't be sisters of battle. Unfair? The reason there are no female Space marines is because there were no female Primarches. This is all about the Primarch gene seed not being rejected by the host. Which is why they start converting the future space marines around puberity and have a very high failure rate. The biologist in me reminds you that girls have an extra X chromosome instead of the boys Y, increasing the chance of failure. The game master in me reminds you and all of my players that we can work around alot of this with creativity and imagination. Interogators, Sisters of Battle, Clerics, Inquisitors, Assasins, Experiments, Tech Priests, living Saints, etc are all great work arounds. BTW I have 2 RL daughters that love this game, 1 is playing a female Sister of Battle trying to become a living Saint, and the other one is a male Dark Angels Devastator that loves the Dakka Dakka with her heavy bolter. Thanks P.S. As an actual US infantry Marine in real life I can personal attest the quality of a warrior has little to do with gender and everything to do with whats in your head, heart, and spine. BTW all Marines are brothers regardless of their gender. Semper Fi Brother Marines! I agree with your above Post brother. Everything can be worked around, think outside the box and not in it as my old Gunny used to say. Semper Fi Devil.

If I have the money I would get it, I was impressed with the RT version. Number 403 here... Still the box was destoryed by my roommates dog. The paper and seal waxed warrent are fine as I have it placed in a frame, best way of keeping it safe.

We Brew our own beer! After all we can't have it taste like the Bud light that Smurfs drink.

Well yes, That could be solved by saying that only the Smurfs could have the chaplins. But on another note, I feel it would add to have a Smurf and a puppy working together, both come from opposite ends of the galaxy.