Rogue30 reacted to sejestephan in Deck Discussion: Luke/Ackbar
Hey guys. I've been playing a lot of this deck lately, the deck formely know as Lukebar, but now called Lukie and the Blowfish ... or something like that.
And this deck man, it blows my mind. I wanted to discuss with you, how to best build it, since there are so many cards, that would be amazing for it, and only those 30 slots.
First off, a little speech about what the deck actually is.
So it's a double die Luke and single die Ackbar, midrange deck, which is capable of dealing massive damage via Lukes 2 and 3 melee sides and focus to get them.
Luke only has 12 life and he really only has 2 good sides on his die, but those sides are amazing. Next set, when we see the 'your eyes can decieve you' card, his shield side will be great as well. Other than those sides, he has resources, focus and of course also a blank.
It's very important to understand that you do NOT want to resolve any other sides on Luke than his damage. Of course there will be situations, where you just have to eat it and resolve his resources or his shield, and there will be situations where your best bet is to use his focus die to turn something else into damage, but we want to try to avoid that, and that's what the deck is build around. I call this strategy, "9 kills".
The thought about 9 kills, is that if you ping from turn one (or just hit for 6 there), in any given turn, 9 damage will kill a character. So our objective is to try and make Luke deal 9 damage each turn. He will not do this every turn, of course, but it's the school of thought for the design of the deck I play (and hope to improve with you guys)
Lukes ability is that he gets to draw a card, when you activate him. This ability is massive! Don't listen to the naysayers that always go; "Yeah, but Vaders ability is better", while that is true, it's completely irrelevant. This ability also somewhat mitigates Vaders ability, just discard something, and you haven't really lost anything much because Luke lets you draw up again. Of course discard is another matter, but I've played a lot of games vs Vader/eJabba, haven't lost a single one of them.
Ackbar is the only good pair with Luke at the moment, and he is very good. He has an amazing ability that deals damage if your opponent discards or plays the last card of his hand. This in reality means, that your opponent is always playing 2 cards less than you, unless he wants to take damage. This combined with Ackbars incredibly double focus result, and the fact that he is exactly 10 points (to pair with Lukes 20), just makes this happy couple a match made in heaven.
The inclusion of Ackbar also adds red to our deck, which is the color we want to splash with Luke.
So. To achieve our first goal of the deck, we consider which sides we want to matter on our starting characters. We want Lukes damage and Ackbars focus, because if we can get this fairly often, we're dealing a lot of damage.
Because of this there are 2 cards, that I would put in the deck before even considering anything else. These are; Datapad and All In.
Datapad serves two purposes. The first and most important, is that it supplies us with a means to get Ackbars focus result (via it's special), and also, this deck is always kind of strapped for cash, so I like to get a couple of money out of Ackbar ever so often (if I even roll him)
The second card is of course All In. We play a deck that revolves around damage and focus results, and we want to be able to completely overwhelm our opponent with damage (9 kills), so All In is the most important card in the deck to get us there. Really, don't play this without All In, I've seen some builds without it (and tested them a lot) and for me at least, it just doesn't work without it.
Now, lets put some stuff in the deck. I am still undecided on my event loadout, but my upgrades are pretty much in place. I want stuff that deals damage or adds to damage or give me focus. So these are the ones I've chosen:
2 x Datapad; As explained
2 x Force Training; Very good upgrade, cheap, a little under costed even, has a great special, and I actually try to get some nice specials in the deck for alternative uses of the datapad special
2x Reys Staff: In the beginning I didn't want this card in the deck. After playing it, I don't want to take it out. As you will see when we get to events, I don't have a lot of dice control in my deck, so Reys staff can really help with controlling some dice via it's special, or even out the damage score via it's damage sides. In a pinch, it can also make us some ready cash. All around amazing card, the only thing I don't like about it, is that it's grey, so we won't get our discount with It binds all Things.
2 x Lightsaber: I don't like this card for some reason, I think it's because it has that giant pay side, and I still have fear of paysides since playing Han Solo and never being able to afford his damage. So I cut it. And then I realized that it's too good to cut. Especially in this iteration of the deck it fits very well with lots of damage sides and it's very nice special.
2 x Lukes Lightsaber: This was why I didn't like the lightsaber. This card is so amazing in this deck, that +3 side is just bonkers, the ability to hang on to a thread with the special or kill a dude with it, is just ... ****, it's such a good card.
2 x One with the Force: There's another discussion about this card. It has a 3 focus side! 3 focus + Luke + Lightsaber + All in = 9 damage. It's other sides are pretty amazing as well.
Thats it. 12 pieces of equipment. I will explain why Force Throw isn't in the deck in the end. (Spoiler; it can be)
For support I am just running 2 x It binds all things, because it's a nice way to save some cash, you can get a lightsaber turn 1 with it and datapad and a little luck, so I like that aspect of it. Later on (if Lukes on 3 upgrades) I just discard it to reroll.
Events are ever changing. This is the hardest part about making the deck hold up to what I want it to do, because I want Luke to live ... LIIIIIIVE, so I need a heavy amount of shields for the opponent to chew through. In this deck Luke doesn't have 12 life, he has 30ish to chew through, before he bites the dust, the challenge is to balance those events so that you can keep him alive, but not put all you event eggs in a single basket.
2 x All In; as explained above
2 x Defensive Stance; shields shields
2 x Dug In; Moar shields
2 x Willpower; Don't you just love killing guys with their own damage? I love this card so much and have killed many Bala Tiks and Jangos with it after they where clever and dealt me one damage with their backup muscle.
2 x Leadership; THIS is the reason to play red with Luke. When you get it off it will be living hell for your opponent. It generally takes a while to get the first Luke dice off (often you'll equip, then roll, then modify, then do something else and so on, so it's not fast) and then, BAM, Leadership, Luke goes again. Your opponent has to respect this, and therefore they have to play accordingly. If they spend all their control on the first Luke roll, fine, then they have an empty hand for your second Luke roll. It's so strong that it's almost broken. But hey, it's Luke Skywalker!
2 x Use the Force; It's that card. I don't really like it, but it seems to be the best control card atm and sometimes I really need to make a hard modifier to something. I personally think it should have been free, but thats probably just me.
2 x Force Misdirection; You have acess to all die results apart from discard with blue dice in this deck. I've even once focused my force training to the gun side, because Veers was holding a lot of +2's, and he didn't have a trigger for them, just to have him reroll into his good stuff and then have all his dice removed by this card. You can even bluff this way, and make him believe you have it, so he has to play extremely carefully, which is nice against a hyperaggro deck.
2 x Riposte; This is the card I am most uncertain about. I am trying to keep Luke alive, this means soak up damage with my shields, this card is counterproductive to that. It's a great card at the right time, but in this deck I feel like it's a clutch. Also I would like to add those Field Medic, for even more life on my main guy, but I need to test it some more without. As it stands I have double Riposte, but I am not perfectly happy with them. Maybe this card will go out in favor of the new Your Eyes can Decieve You, which will give this deck so much spot control!
Finally the battleground. I've been lazy and just plays Hoth. Hoth is fine because I like to get the shields and it's never that big of a deal for my opponent. Armory could also be an option for the shenanigans with it binds all things.
So thats it guys. Here's the deck list:
LUKIE AND THE BLOWFISH
BF: Armory or Hoth
Reys staff x2
Force Training x2
Lukes Lightsaber x2
One With the Force x2
It Binds all Things x2
Use the Force x2
All In x2
Force Misdirection x2
Defensive Stance x2
Dug In x2
If you don't have all the legendaries or want to switch some of the upgrades I would recommend Jedi Robes, for the shields and the focus results, or Survival Gear, for all the sides.
Force throw has been in this deck for as long as I remember, but it's out now because I simply don't like it's die. It has only 2 AMAZING sides! And in all other decks that runs blue it's a must include, but for some reason it feels wrong in this deck, I would rather have the lightsabers, it just works a little better for me.
Finally I've been thinking about putting heroism in the deck, to suck some of the damage over to Ackbar. There's some pros and cons (I would take out riposte for this atm), the pros is that Ackbar can then suck up some trigger damage (or Luke can do it, so you can control his output) and it's free. The cons is, that you risk that they simply one shot Ackbar right afterwards because he's so squishy. This is not a problem, if you already spendt both of your leaderships, but it's a hard blow if they haven't gotten off yet. I'll need to test it some more with that card, on paper I really like it.
The great thing about this deck, is that it really feels like Star Wars, you have they Hero over all heroes, batteling impossible odds with the rebel alliance (in the form of fishman) backing him up. The bad thing about this deck, is that it is vulnerable to massive burst damage and single die control, but this is true about all "big character" decks.
I hope this article can inspire a discussion about how to best run the Luke/Ackbar deck, and maybe inspire some guys to try it out for themselves.
I can't wait to see what the next set brings of useable cards for my favorite deck.
Thanks for reading and may the force be with you.
Rogue30 reacted to Mace Windu in I'm not sure how to put this.
While I sympathise with your plea, the simple reality is that FFG design fantastic games, but with rules made out of a sieve.
With however many years under their belt before they brought out x-wing 4 years ago it was a minor annoyance with the considerable number of holes in the rules for that game when it came out. With each new wave they appear to perpetuate the same problems of sloppy grammar templating that constantly create significant arguments, one only need to look at the discussions on the FFG rules sub-forum on the x-wing page. It has now gotten to the point that even though some items may appear clear enough people have become so weary of the potential outcomes that players constantly demand FAQ answers on every little thing.
Don’t even get me started on the horrendous amendment to the way points are scored in the latest Imperial Assault FAQ.
Having said that, the fact that people are picking holes in the rules tells you that there is a thirst for players to play the game, which drives growth. What can stunt growth however is poorly worded rules that have ambiguous wording or potential double meaning, which can lead to rules lawyers manipulating the rules over less experienced players.
While the rules for the game appear to be OK people are naturally going to compare it to MTG. the Rules for MTG are virtually watertight, clear and concise (in my opinion at least) with very little ambiguity that isn't clarified somewhere. (having said that the official MTG tournament rules are considerably larger that Destiny's)
FFG need to pick up their game if you really want to push out the loophole players and the game manipulators and the rules they publish need to be crystal clear.
Rogue30 reacted to Starbane in Best openings you've seen
I was playing Rey/2x Palawan and faced this exact opening plus a Backup Muscle. I lost Rey turn 1 because I didn't draw a way to control my opponent 's dice. Everybody except me called game on turn 1.
Turn 2 my opponent rolled both 3 melee sides with Vader again but only got a 1 melee with the Raider and I was able to control one of Vader' s dice. Vader finished the turn with 11 damage on him.
Turn 3 my opponent rolled a 2 and a 3 melee with Vader but I controlled them both. I finished off Vader and put 1 damage on the Raider and he finished of the first Palawan.
Turn 4 started with a dual wielding full health Padawan vs a Raider with 7 health and some mismatched stuff. The Padawan easily dispatched the Raider on turn 5.
It was my best comeback to date, one of my favorite games played, and a lesson for all of us present how much a game can swing the opposite direction over a couple of turns when a midrange control deck goes into control mode.
Rogue30 got a reaction from Hawkman2000 in Is card number #002 in Spirit of Rebellion actually Dengar?
"Destroyer droid P-59" or "Destroyer droid P-60"?
Rogue30 reacted to Rogue Dakotan in Is card number #002 in Spirit of Rebellion actually Dengar?
Does Dr. Aphra fit? I think we'll see her eventually... wait she'd be yellow nvm.
It will probably be DEATH STAR. Fits the Rogue One theme. It'll have a huge 20 sided die.
Rogue30 reacted to GooeyChewie in Is card number #002 in Spirit of Rebellion actually Dengar?
If that 2 is a focus, then Obi-Wan's die will be pretty epic. The order is Ranged damage, Melee damage, Focus, Disrupt, Discard, Shield, Resource then Special. If I am not mistaken, the orientation of the die puts the 2 Focus on the fourth side, implying sides 2 and 3 are some combination of Melee and Focus.
If he follows Jyn's lead, he could be 1M, 2M, 1F, 2F, 1 Box, blank. And expensive, because dang.
Rogue30 reacted to Willy Jarque in Bala-Tik and his ability?
I wrote ffg about this and got an answer from Lukas saying that, if you activate a character that has some of his/her dice in the pool, you only roll dice that are on the card, while the ones in the pool remain unaffected.
That was my thought before i wrote them, because dice in the pool are already rolled. If you pick them to throw them you would be rerolling them, not rolling, and that's not what the rules tell you to do.
Rogue30 got a reaction from nismojoe in OP Rules Released for Destiny
Fact is, those rules are absurd. Nobody in his right mind will disqualify a player, because he only brought one die for his Falcon he has in two copies. Also, they allow proxies for damaged cards, but if you lost a die you are disqualified - it's nonsense - a player could still play and use that dead card for rerolling.
Rogue30 reacted to Smuggler in Ackbar and Jedi Temple
Reading a bit more in the RRG I found this under "Discard" on page 9, describing how to resolve the discard symbol on dice.
Bold added by me.
The first sentanse is worded kind of the same way as Jedi Temple, indicating the player who resolvs the ability does the discarding. But the second sentanse says the opposite, thart it is the opponent who does the discarding.
So I guess I would have to change my interpretation and assume that any time cards are discarded, it is the owner of the card that technicaly does the discarding, regardles of the source of the discard. If not, the standard discard symbol on dice would not trigger Ackbar either, unless the opponent has less cards in hand then should be discarded. And that seems way to situational.
So consider my oppinion changed. Ackbar triggers any time the last card leavs his opponents hand, regardles of how it comes to do so.
Rogue30 reacted to Starbane in The Emerging Meta
I think this is a matter of how one perceives the deck mechanic in the game. Certainly an instant win 5 card combo would be bad for the game. However I look at the small deck and mulligan differently than you. I see it as an attempt to make the game less draw dependent and let players play their deck as designed. Jango/Veers wants to start the game with a Jetpack and/or Holdout Blaster although any gun will do. That start doesn't break the game and the way the game is designed increases your chance to get it. Another example are your abilities to discard cards at the end of the turn and draw up to five cards.
It seems to me that the dice introduce enough randomness into the game and the deck mechanics are designed to give players as much control of their destiny as possible, making the game more dependent on player skill and less on luck.
Rogue30 got a reaction from Bayushi Sezaru in Cunning clarification.....
No, you can manipulate the dice if an effect allows you.
Maybe it will help someone - here is everything you need to know about Cunning used on:
AT-ST - "Discard a support from play." - You can discard that AT-ST (because it does not say "another").
BB-8 - "Reroll this die and one of your other dice." - "this die" means corresponding BB-8's die, so if that die is in your or your opponent's pool, you reroll it. If it is not, you simply do "Reroll ... one of your other dice".
This part "Do not remove this die from your pool after resolving this ability." does nothing, because it applies to the normal resolving of BB-8's die.
Black One - "Deal 1 damage to a character. Reroll this die instead of removing it from your pool." - "this die" means corresponding Black One's die, but this part "Reroll this die instead of removing it from your pool" does nothing, even if the Black One's die is in your pool, because it's a replacement effect and it replaces "removing it from your pool". Since you are not removing it in the first place, the effect has nothing to replace, thus does nothing.
Force choke - "Deal 1 unblockable damage to another character. Then you may turn one of its character or upgrade dice to any side." - You do the part after "then" normally (that is, you can manipulate those dice). Force choke is interesting becuase of "another" word. That word is there to forbid choking character by itself. So you can Cunning > Force choke yourself as long as those upgrades are not attached to the same character. (And obviously, if choking part was not successful, you don't get "then" part.)
Infantry grenades - "Deal 2 damage to each of an opponent’s characters. Discard this upgrade from play." - "this upgrade" means Infantry grenades (and that scenario is clear thanks to FAQ).
Jetpack - "Remove a die showing melee damage and give attached character 1 shield." - if Jetpack is attached to an opponent's character, you must give it a shield even if you do not want to.
Kylo Ren's lightsaber - "Deal 2 damage to a character. If any of this damage is blocked by shields, reroll this die instead of removing it from your pool." - "this die" means corresponding lightsaber's die, but this part "If any of this damage is blocked by shields, reroll this die instead of removing it from your pool" does nothing, even if the Kylo Ren's lightsaber's die is in your pool, because it's a replacement effect and it replaces "removing it from your pool". Since you are not removing it in the first place, the effect has nothing to replace, thus does nothing.
Outpost - "Resolve the battlefield ability as if you had just claimed it." - If you use it on Mos Eisley spaceport ("Return one of your upgrades in play to your hand to gain 1 resource."), then it's possible for Cunning to return itself.
Sith Holocron - "Switch this upgrade with a Blue ability upgrade in your hand, ignoring its play restrictions. Then you may spend 1 resource to roll its die into your pool, if able." - You can't use Cunning on opponent's Holocron, because that would mean taking opponent's card into your hand (out of play area), which is forbidden. But you can use it on your Holocron obviously.
Thermal detonator - "Discard this upgrade from play." - "this upgrade" means Thermal detonator (and that scenario is clear thanks to FAQ).
There are two interesting cases while using Cunning on Poe Dameron's ability and then discarding:
BB-8 - the effect would be "Reroll ... one of your other dice" as explained above.
Sith Holocron - the effect would be taking Holorcon from your discard pile to your hand, discarding a blue ability and rolling its die into pool (if paid).
Rogue30 reacted to Buhallin in Overkill and Second Chance
It is the example they use, but it's not saying what you think it's saying. Pay close attention to the wording: "the character is never considered to have been defeated." It doesn't actually say they were never defeated. Because, YET AGAIN, being defeated is the trigger for Second Chance. The character must, at some point, be defeated in order for Second Chance to do anything. What that line actually means is that other effects which might trigger from a character being defeated, such as Grievous stealing one of your upgrades, don't have the opportunity to trigger because the replacement effect takes precedence.
This is actually made clear in the actual rule above the example, which says the original effect is considered to have not resolved. Again, pay close attention to the wording: It says it doesn't resolve, not that it never happens. The rule about excess damage applies as part of the conditions for "defeat" being met, but the results of being defeated never resolve.
This is not an open question, it is not an unknown, there is no debate. As I mentioned previously, this question has been answered by the designer himself. My goal here was to try and correct the misunderstanding around how this works, but it's getting old fast. Here's the link, you'll probably have to join the group to see it, so I've copied it for anyone willing to trust that I'm not making it up.
Rogue30 reacted to Kix in FAQ Addition Needed
INTERACTIONS THAT APPEAR TO REQUIRES OFFICIAL RULING: Please only respond to this list if you actually have an official rules clarification (not just an interpretation), or want to submit a rule for clarification not listed here, or if I'm missing a rules interpretation for one of the ones below. I'll include both sides of the argument for the purposes of making it clear the ways it can be interpreted: you can argue them in their own threads. ------------------------------------- GENERAL GRIEVOUS and MOS EISLEY SPACEPORT (and any other effect which lets you possess another person's card before it causes a discard or a draw of that card in play). The below example is of the above card interaction, but can apply to most any such principle. General Grievous (Player B) claims an upgrade from Player A. Mos Eisley Spaceport lets you choose one of your upgrades and return it to your hand to gain 1 resource. Option 1: Player A can use this Battlefield to take an upgrade back from Grievous and gain a resource. Option 2: Player B/Grievous can use this Battlefield to gain a resource, but he returns the Upgrade to its owner's hand. Option 3: Player B can use this Battlefield to gain a resource, and he returns the Upgrade to his own hand. Option 3: Player B can use this Battlefield to gain a resource, and the Upgrade is discarded because it can't legally go to Grievous's hand. ------------------------------------- DATAPAD and KYLO REN (and any other effect that lets you use a Special to turn a die to a Special, or a Focus to turn a die to a Focus presumably). The below example is of the above card interaction, but can apply to most any such principle: Kylo Ren's player has Datapad in play, and it has a Special on it, which will allow it to turn any die to a non-damage side. Kylo Ren's dice show, let's say, blanks. Kylo Ren uses the Resolve Dice action on Special(s). He uses the Special on Datapad to turn his character die to a Special. He then... Option 1: Resolves that Kylo Ren die Special he just turned his character die to, because he is resolving Specials and that die is available. Option 2: Cannot resolve that Kylo Ren die special because it only just entered play as a viable candidate for resolution, and was not available when "Resolve Dice" was taken as an action. ------------------------------------- CUNNING and SITH HOLOCRON Player A controls Cunning. Player B controls Sith Holocron. Cunning allows you to resolve a special ability on another card in play as if it were on your card. Sith Holocron says "Switch this upgrade with a Blue ability upgrade in your hand, ignoring its play restrictions. Then you may spend 1 resource to roll its die into your pool, if able." Player A uses Cunning to resolve a special ability on Player B's Sith Holocron card in play as if it were on Player A's card. Does Player A... Part A1: Switch Sith Holocron into their (Player A's) hand? Part A2: Switch Sith Holocron into Player B's hand? Part A3: Discard Sith Holocron because it can't go into their (Player A's) hand? Part A4: Switch Cunning into their (Player A's) hand? Part B1: Do they then play one of the Blue ability upgrades from their (Player A's) hand? Part B2: Do they play one of the Blue ability upgrades from Player B's hand onto their own (Player A's) character who had Cunning? Part B3: Do they play one of the Blue ability upgrades from Player B's hand onto Player B's character who had Sith Holocron? Part B4: Do they play one of the Blue ability upgrades from their (Player A's) hand onto Player B's character who had Sith Holocron? (note: Part A4 will, logically, result in Part B1. That said, it seems the most improbable conclusion.) ------------------------------------- ONE WITH THE FORCE and death Player A has One With The Force in play on Character. One With The Force's die is currently active, on the exhausted Character. Player B kills Character. Card reads "Before attached character is defeated, this upgrade becomes a support for the rest of the game (it starts ready)". One With The Force, with the die currently active, becomes a Support Character. So then... Option 1) The die remain in play, because it behaves like a Redeploy, with One With The Force in a Ready state, allowing you to use the die, then exhaust One With The Force to gain the die, then use the die again. Option 2) The die returns to the card, because the process of either Readying it or it becoming a Support meant the card has to re-enter play and subsequently exhaust so as to allow Player A to have access to the die. -------------------------------------
QUI-GON JINN and shields Does the action of applying surplus shields to Qui-Gon Jinn allow him to activate his card effect? Option 1) Yes, because it'd be before he received a shield, and the condition of maximum has yet to be verified when his effect enters the queue. Option 2) No, because he could not gain a shield, therefore his ability would not be able to trigger. -------------------------------------
Any other quandaries are good; but this is less the place to argue them. I promise none of these are perfectly clarified currently, though there are some strong arguments for many of them.