ktom said: "While this card is in play, you automatically win Dominance unless an opponent kneels a Stronghold location." Seriously though, I would like this in FAQ, because even if I accept ktom's answer, this thing will be often missed by players. And there is always possibility that designers wanted to work this differently.

Ankha said: So why are they so many cards written "kneel a <whatever> you control to..." ? There is no such card.

What about cards like Lost Spearman? After you play Lost Spearman from your hand, any opponent may kneel 1 influence to return him to your hand. Does it count as kneeling location?

Note that above "ruling" is to answer typical question when you put both Khals using it's response (playing Drogo is rare thing). Saturnine said: I'm not sure that this implies such an ability can only be triggered while they are in that out-of-play area, but that's how I would play it. Yes, I believe that's correct. Saturnine said: Is the lasting effect created by his ability able to "find" him while he's in an out-of-play area, returning him to my hand from the dead or discard pile, or does the effect just fizzle out? Lasting effects end when card leaves play. It is not necessary for a card to say "if it is in play".

Saturnine said: I still think FFG wouldn't be so clandestine about it, nor so random. FFG is generally clandestine firm. And not random, just those packs was sold out, I think. And why not? It's logical. CoC was reprinted x3, right?

Saturnine said: I still can't find anything to suggest the reprints are being done in the new collation format. "Secrets and Spies is the fifth monthly installment of 60 fixed cards..." Of course it may be a mistake...

stuh said: Is buying a second core set vital, in order to get 3 of the holdings and more basic cards? That depends. Unless you play Lannister or Targaryen, I don't recommend buying more than 1 core set. Buy deluxe expansion for your House. stuh said: Am I right in saying you get a a full playset of each card in these? Yep. Note that you need "revised edition" in case of Kings of the Sea and Princes of the Sun.

Wrong example with Cat of course. ktom said: You are considered the "winner" or "loser" of the challenge for the purposes of Responses, passives, Renown, etc., but the original defending player is still on the line for fulfilling claim if you lose the challenge. Yes, I know, but I have a doubt how to read cards like Stannis, Reek or The Burned Men.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Am I correct that, in above scenario: -after redirection using Lord Commander, Catelyn's controller is no longer defending player and I become defending player? -after I decided to defend with my characters in support, I don't become defending player? (Catelyn's controller still is). Cards like Stannis Baratheon CS can be confusing when you have no experience with melee.

I don't play melee, so I don't know if I should read this literally: "if the defending player declares no defenders" If, for example, the defending player plays Catelyn Stark before defenders are declared, can I use Lord Commander or supports rule?

Great job Gualdo! But how did you know what I need in my deck?!

ktom said: What initiates it the second time is what initiated it the first time, too. If I cancel a passive effect, then it does not initiate again - once per trigger rule, as you know.Continously true effect (while some condition is true) is a characteristic for constant effect. Problem with your reasoning is that you mix characteristics of both effects into one. I won't argue with you more, because I don't see the point. ktom said: All the basic building blocks of the entire answer are in the rules documents. Anyone can do, or follow, the analysis based on what is there. Interesting. I wonder how many players would agree with this.

ktom said: When the card comes into play, the "if you control Drogon" condition becomes true. As already stated, that makes Step 4.I initiation point #1 and Step 4.IV initiation point #2 (because the "if you control Drogon" condition is still true when you get to resolving passives activated by resolving the passive - Pg. 18). You believe that point of initiation is "when card comes into play". So what exactly is the point of initiation which triggers this effect second time i.e. WHAT triggers it second time? ktom said: Remember how earlier in the thread, we figured out that since it enters play as a character and the effects don't conflict, no matter how you look at the mechanics of the situation the Hatchling card ends up discarded? Oh yes, I remember, but do you want to tell me, that all necessary knowledge for answering this thread original question is in the rules documents?

Ratatoskr said: Well, I think it's all pretty thematic. The Night's Watch doesn't take part in the struggles of the Seven Kingdoms, hence the iconlessness So why Builder of the Watch and Old Bear Mormont have icons?

WOW! It's awesome! Many thanks for the link!

Carnemark said: Question: can I discard venomous blade when comes out of shadows by discarding Scurvy Cutthroat? No. Scurvy says "After an opponent plays an attachment". Coming out of shadows is not playing a card.

FAQ page 9: (3.19) Scope of Immunity Immunity only protects a card itself. Peripheral entities attached to or associated with a card, such as attachments, duplicates, power counters, gold tokens on the immune card, and also including triggered effects originating from the immune card, can still be affected by cards of the type to which that card is immune, as long as the affecting cards do not target the immune card.

Shenanigans said: And yes, I did check the FAQ ~Dude, that will not do. The only hope is ktom. You can search for Riders, but there is a doubt if "top X of deck" is also a deck:Galbar Glover, searching

ktom said: And btw: the reassertion of the passive effect is a brand new activation of it. That's why it wouldn't matter, even if you were to cancel the Hatchlings with some mythically applicable cancel. Canceling activation #1 doesn't have any impact on the reactivation (#2) when the effect reasserts itself. It's a "whole new" activation of the effect that has not been canceled. And btw: how exactly Hatchling's effect reactivate? You believe that the point of initiation was "when card comes into play". So what's this #2 point of initiation? ktom said: I find your method to be more confusing because I have to somehow understand that "if X is true" provides timing information in some situations, but not others. I thought this is already confusing (cards like Kings of Winter or Knight of Flowers). Actually many things in this game is already confusing, that's why I want to improve rules document. ktom said: And seriously, what is the practical difference on the outcome or game play based on the definition of the Hatchlings as a constant effect or a passive that reasserts itself? So in your opinion this: perpetual noob said: Does the card get discarded before it can be attached? is only academic interest?

ktom, I really appreciate what you wrote. Let me show you my method: What we know from rules document: Passive Abilities: These abilities are identified by their card text, which indicates when the ability initiates. Constant Abilities: Because there is no point of initiation, they cannot be canceled. "If you win a challenge in which Daenerys Targaryen attacked alone, move all gold token from the losing opponent's gold pool to your gold pool." (CS-Dany) When? After you win (It should be written "After you win" btw) - one point in time (framework event). Cancel makes sense? Yes, because it triggers only once (there is point of initiation). Verdict: Passive. "If you do not win dominance, pay 1 gold or discard (Whatever) Refugee from play." (all 7 Refugees) When? After you do not win - one point in time (framework event). Cancel makes sense? Yes, because it triggers only once (there is point of initiation). Verdict: Passive. "If you are not running an Agenda, The Red Viper gains: (text)" (KL-Viper) When? No information. Cancel makes sense? No, because it works all the time (there is no point of initiation). Verdict: Constant. "If you have no power on your House card, Beric Dondarrion cannot be killed or discarded from play." (Berric Dondarrion) When? No information. Cancel makes sense? No, because it works all the time (there is no point of initiation). Verdict: Constant. "If you control at least 1 Wildling character, treat attached location as if its printed text box were blank." (Climbing Spikes) When? No information. Cancel makes sense? No, because it works all the time (there is no point of initiation). Verdict: Constant. "If you control Ser Barristan Selmy, discard Arstan Whitebeard from play (cannot be saved)." (Arstan Whitebeard) When? No information. Cancel makes sense? No, because it will trigger again and again, it works all the time (there is no point of initiation or said another way: there are infinite numbers of points of initiation). Verdict: Constant. Note: "cannot be saved" makes sense, because I can save him and take to hand etc. - see moribund rules exception. Irrelevant to constant/passive rules. "If you are the only player to control The Iron Throne, you automatically win dominance (cannot be canceled)." (DotN Iron Throne) When? One point in time (framework event). Cancel makes sense? Yes, because it triggers only once (there is point of initiation). Thus "cannot be canceled". Verdict: Passive. "If you control Drogon, attach Black Hatchling and all of its duplicates to Drogon as duplicates." When? No information. Cancel makes sense? No, because it will trigger again and again, it works all the time (there is no point of initiation or said another way: there are infinite numbers of points of initiation). Verdict: Constant. Now what method is more simpler and consistent with rules document? (I don't see anything about verbs there.) If you believe that you are right, then ask Nate to include your method in FAQ. I will be really happy. ktom said: And no, I don't expect people to get all of that quickly and easily from a single reading of the rules. That's the difference. I expect people to check FAQ when necessary and easily read relevant paragraph about BASIC stuff. Unfortunately we cannot take you or Nate in our pocket and play with your help.ktom said: And quite honestly, in the end it doesn't matter much whether it is a passive that reasserts itself or a straight constant effect because the final result is the same I don't agree. Why people keep asking such questions? You think they are stupid? Lazy?

ktom said: The "if you" wording is particularly difficult because it is used in both the play restrictions of passive effects and the conditions on constant effects. So, do you have some method to differentiate them or you just must remember by card title which is which? If you control a N character, Faceless Man gains a P icon. - is this passive? Isn't "if you control" always true or always false, while card says nothing about "when"?

ktom said: Remember, passive abilities are things that initiate automatically when their play restrictions are met, whether a player wants them to or not. Constant effects are ones that are just always true. I'm sorry, but how do you expect players to learn what is what, if you say that Hatchling is passive?

Maester_LUke said: I didn't think events had a house affiliation Yeah, but Bear Island read "if every card you control has the HS affiliation". So I can play 2 x Battle of Ruby Ford the same phase or is the event considered to be in dead pile?

Ok, but since we copy the whole ability, what with "after you win" requirement?

ktom said: But the fact that they impact the resolution differently doesn't change the fact that they both interrupt the initiation and resolution of an effect in the same way with the same timing restrictions. BTW Do you think it's legal to play save first and then cancel?