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commoner

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Everything posted by commoner

  1. HI, I used to post here all the time, but got busy and sort of fell of the radar. Now that I have more free time I came here to see what's been going on with FFG and the fantastic Edge of Empires game coming up (that I've very recently gotten the chance to play a lot more). For the past 5 years, until edge of empire, I have played Warhammer almost exclusively. My group even began porting other games into the Warhammer mechanics and I've ran almost everything using this system. The only real criticism I've ever heard about the game from other players is that the action cards and stance meters are the flaw of the game. This does not include the stance dice. They work fine, but the meter itself gets in the way of the game for them. The action cards and the complex recharge mechanics they also don't like. They just want to say what they do and not have a card dicatate how its done. This has been the case from playing at my local game shop to the group I play with regularly. So, I began running the game without them. Once you cut these components you cut out over 2/3 of what player's consider to be the "fiddly" bits. It works beautifully. The only issue is you have to cut all the talents that relate to "recharge" and redefine what the delay symbol means. However, the description in the books give clear examples on how to use it. To me, this sets the dice free and the player's have a lot less to worry about. I think its funny on how well the Star Wars mechanics are being received comparatively. Star Wars is a great game, but it's essentially what I am describing: Warhammer without action cards. Star Wars maintains talents, it's just talents on one big fiddly bit - the talent sheet. The Force powers are the same as a Wizard Spell, but instead of the chart being printed on a card, its printed in a book. There is a still a micro-chart that explains how the power works that players are still required to track, it just tracks them differently. Now, there are some major differences between the systems, I am not denying that, but at their core, they are the same game. Years ago, in the house rules section I proposed creating essentially the harder, difficulty die that upgrades a purple when facing a serious bad guy. I am glad to see it in star wars (and I think Warhammer could still use it - my famous Orange die). So its the same game in a different package. I do think its success - when comapred to the criticisms of Warhammer - is the removal of action cards and card recharge. But way back, 5 years ago (the stone age right?) the entire gaming industry was obsessed with designing MMO style RPG table top games. Even DND 4e, the walking disaster, was obsessed with it. It's what killed 4e over time as well. Actions being codified people do not want in an RPG anymore (if ever). It was a way to try to bridge a gap between MMO's and RPG's, but it just didn't work. I do think Warhammer (and Star Wars) now face a new challenge. With the rise of games like Fate, Dungeon World, Burning Wheel, and other indie narrative games these big-box, traditionalist model games have a new beast. The market is changing drastically in terms of what people are looking for from an RPG experience and new, fresh designers are taking a totally different look at the RPG experience - though it has been around for years. Star Wars as well as the little I've heard about the next DnD is trying to bridge the gap between the traditionalist model and the narrative game. I think Warhammer was a great attempt at this as well, I just think it got lost in all the vitriole about "fiddly" bits. I do think its funny though anytime I hear someone sing the praise of these narrative games, then criticize the Warhammer dice. In a nutshell, no other narrative game - though they all try - are as capable of creating the type of narrative outcomes from their core mechanics as the dice FFG are now producing. They use complex mechanics to try and achieve it, but so far, they fail to capture the diverse nature of banes/boons. It just can't be done on a binary mechanic of standard dice. These dice offer so many more narrative possibilities than any other system out there. If you don't believe me, play Dungeon World straight up, then play it again modding it over using Warhammer Dice - just the dice, nothing else. It is by far a better narrative experience. I do think that Star Wars will be well received - and I am glad that it is - but I wonder, 5 years from now, if the current trend of Narrative games continue to rise from the indie markets, I feel that it will be criticized for some of its more traditionalist mechanics that it adheres to currently. Just as 5 years later, Warhammer is seen as Star Wars' clumsy, ugly grandfather. Just last night, I read a Star Warsmodification to the Apocalypse World Engine. It wasn't half bad, but I think FFG's is better. So, if Warhammer was to be revised I think they should look at cutting the action cards entirely and I think people would have a massively different reaction to it. I am curious to see if this is what's coming in the future for it. Happy gaming, Commoner
  2. The game doesn't suck. Not even close. I have been playing it extensively - now along side Star Wars Edge of Empire for years. I've even proxied a number of other games to this mechanic. The biggest complaint I hear is the action cards. It is the source of 90% of the "fiddly" bits as people like to call them. The other one is the stance meter. It is also another "fiddly" mechanic. I largely disagree that these are fiddly, just a different way to do things than most people are used to. It's a great game, we'll just have to see what the future holds.
  3. New Zombie said: k7e9 said: Dark Bunny Lord said: Well if you find it be sure to reply once more. I know that when they initially become KO'd they take a crit but beyond that I couldn't find anything referencing it (mind you I'm just looking at the players manual). Hi, looked over my books and as the others already posted there were no clear rules on the subject, must have read it here on the forums. i was sure i had read it somewhere... and i did... it is in the latest FAQ If a PC has been knocked unconscious by exceeding his wound threshold, what happens if he suff ers additional wounds? Most of the time, when you’re unconscious you’re just at the mercy of the environment or the GM. The goblin can just climb on top of you and slit your throat if no one’s around to stop it; we don’t need rules for that. (But isn’t it more interesting if he ties you up and puts you in a cage?) However, if you want to model additional damage on an unconscious character, each time a character takes damage above his wound threshold, one of those wounds is turned faceup as a critical (just like the blow that knocked him unconscious). If he then has more critical wounds than his toughness, he dies. Interesting...thanks for pointing that out. I do think it's great they left it up to us to figure out how to manage this part of the mechanic. I have also ruled, during some scenes, that a player whose character doesn't have a number of critical wounds equal to their wound threshold can choose to either go unconscious (removing the risk of death), or they can continue to act, be it at an additional challenge die to all their checks. The trade off is, ko'd characters do not risk further injury where as a character who is severely injured risks injury and potentially death. They receive additional wounds and criticals as described above. I find my players really like the call and have allowed them to avoid some harrowing spots. Of course, some combats I have not made this offer to them...because it was best for the story. I really do like working with players to make the experience as fun for them as it is for me. Happy gaming, Commoner
  4. I think, without a shadow of a doubt, we will see something very similar to WFRP used in the star wars line....if they can. It could be that GW has a lock-down on the mechanics since they are massive control-freaks when it comes to their IP. I doubt they want their precious warhammer to float, even remotely close, to the giant of Lucasfilm. So we may or may not see the exact same mechanics. I also have a strong guess that Jay being moved off of warhammer has something to do with Warhammer. Sure he got a promotion, but I think he'll be directly involved. If they do go in the direction of warhammer, I am pretty sure they'll keep action cards. They are a great way to get us to buy more supplements, after all and are a great resource/tool for the dice mechanics. The only part that might bug me is the force powers when it comes to recharge. You don't want to have your jedi's being able to "force jump" once then have to wait four turns before they can do it again. It would lose the cinematic feel. I'd rather have them take force powers in a completely different direction, about weighing the risks of an action versus the benefits gained. The ability to push your power, but ever so greedily, face corruption by the dark side. The cost is in some other mechanic or greater penalties for failure. But that's my two cents about that. Happy gaming, Commoner
  5. Amehdaus said: I love the look of the Twins, and the source is close to heart. I feel strongly that the story is about the Player Characters and not their hirelings. On a player's turn, it should be the PC in the spotlight and so I feel that henchman-esque bonuses should modify the PC's actions, not act independently of them. For this reason, I personally don't like the idea of the NPCs acting independently or under orders and making their own rolls. The precedent set by the Small but Vicious Dog makes me believe the game designers feel the same way, but I have a pretty large ego so the connection may be in my head. ^_- Examples of mechanics I feel support this: Allow the PC to use a yellow die for Nature Lore with a specialization in tracking as long as he has a skilled guide handy. Allow the PC to make a Leadership test in place of a Nature Lore test as long as he has a skilled guide handy. Passively grant the PC a white die to Nature Lore while he has a skilled guide handy. Allow the guide to have "Trick" slots with the same trick effects as the Small but Vicious Dog. These need not necessarily be purchased as a Trick, but might be free options to switch out to represent the orders you give your hireling. No tracking or single-stat tracking (i.e. Loyalty) to minimize book-keeping on NPC. A maximum of 2-sided class-card sized (possibly with sockets) to record all stats relevant to an NPC -- only one side should have stats (the other, flavor). This equates to 1/3 of the board space used to track a PC (character sheet + career card). Socketing the Henchman into a talent slot of the PC sheet or Party sheet is a fair cost to the mechanical boosts -- with the socket being mutable as a maneuver under the normal rules. While unsocketed, the NPC simply cannot provide benefits. Cash and/or XP and/or Story rewards and/or Fortune convertable to loyalty, depending on how you typically reward players* Flavorfully describing a Prepare or Assist maneuver to include how the NPC is involved. Grant the PC a free Prepare or Assist maneuver in combat, as long as he has a skilled mercenary/combatant handy. Boon/Bane effects reflecting how the NPC aids the player (i.e. [bo][bo] Mercenary increases damage by number of hammers reflecting a team attack). All effects are based off of the player's dice roll, requiring no wasted time double checking a hireling's stat line. Using the Loyalty stat as a resource used by the player for singular effects. *Having an option of Loyalty reward is a great way to reward players for a good scene that doesn't directly contribute to player advancement (as would xp or money) -- Alternate rewards are something I consider a great deal to find ways to reward players that don't lead to power creep mid-adventure. Brainstorming this list, I realized a few new mechanics that are great generics to be used across a variety of NPCs, and I'd like to invite anyone else to add to this list of "generic" hireling boons that can be mixed/matched to create a hireling for any situation. I agree with this philosophy and am 100% behind your design principle. I normally handle the PC's attache's in the exact same manner, but I do not track their loyalty per se, but I will be using this I think from now on...I really do like it. They normally, in my universe give assistance in the form of white, which you have tracked. Better NPC's give better dice. The dice do express additional bonuses like you call for. The principle is 100& sound. You could have it on a talent card. Loyalty could be a flat number, tracking tokens placed on the card to record how much it is effecting the party. The NPC could then "switch' hands to reflect who they are helping, or be attached to the party card. I like the idea of it being able to move and instead of granting a generic bonus across the board, it can only help one person per turn as a "free" maneuver, and everything else costs 1 loyalty. Their loyalty is regained when any action says regain stress or fatigue, as you bolster their morale. Just a quick thought before I'm off to bed. Happy gaming, Commoner
  6. Hey, it could be worse... At least you didn't drop it into your chair. Or for that matter, a stack of action cards. Now that would have been the true test of durability
  7. Mousegaurd also has a similar dice mechanic, require specialized dice...and condition cards...and might as well be called micehammer. kidding. They don't have action cards. Which may or may not be bad, depending on your POV about them. I personally love them and used to rail on the recharge mechanic...until they released more cards, especially Omens of War which fixed many of my gripes about recharge. It gives players tons of options....but I guess this thread isn't about that, so I digress, lol! I HOPE it starts a new trend and Warhammer will get more love. But Gamers can be whiney grognards and love to dig their heels in post a knee jerk decision. So I have a feeling the other companies will be praised for their "innovations" while warhammer is left dwarfed in the shadows of titans. However, I do see the rest of the industry adopting many of its principles and mechanics. Because... I don't care who you are and what you've played and how much experience or inexperience you have, these dice, these mechanics, are the best thing to happen to RPG's in a very, very long time. It is innovation at it's finest. Heck, a couple of groups (besides just me) have adopted many core features (the dice, the condition cards, wounds/insanity) into homebrews involving a wide-range of other genres and have found it has improved those games a thousand fold. The greatest success in that is what I have seen a crew around here do with the White Wolf old Storyteller mechanics. Man, in their opinion it is what the white wolf system always intended itself to be (you know about telling stories with real cost and gains), but never was before. After sitting in on a session or two, I have to say I agree with them. The only limit for genre adoption is the visual lay out of the dice are very warhammer. It sometimes just doesn't match the "feel" of other games. But oh well, neither did a d8, no matter how sparkly it was. It is a small price to pay for the quality of information they communicate. I really do hope to see more games designed in the scope of 3e. I'd love to take a crack at it myself, if ever given the chance. The possibilities are endless. Happy gaming, Commoner
  8. I disagree with the house rule, but I can see how people would interpret it that way. The only difference between intermediate and advanced is that they are different terms, meaning they cost more when leveling to the next one. Some are more prohibitive by the terms (such as wizard and priest careers), but in general, this is not the case. Other than the extra cost, they are identical and neither can be taken as a basic career. In general, non magic, intermediate and advanced careers are really no more powerful than their neighbors so I think the house rule is pointlessly limiting, but to each their own. The key is to have fun. I generally choose not to limit my players and their imaginations and what they want out of their gaming experience. I can whoop the pointy butt of any tier two or tier three assassin if I really, really need too (as a GM and in combat or out of it). Same goes for Iron Breakers and Sword Master. Anyway, hope that helps. Happy gaming, Commoner
  9. Love the lists. Here is one I add. Fear and Terror having little beneficial side effects I am not a huge fan of. I have interpreted it several ways, so I figure I'd shoot them out. succeed: same as book. 3 successes, regain 1 stress and fatigue as you steady yourself to face the terror. 2 boons, add fortune to the first check you make against the target. comet: gain the invigorated card and place 3 recharge tokens on it, as you need to overcome this new peril as fast as possible. There's a quick one off the top of my head.
  10. This is great news. Unfortunately my local store doesn't have it in stock tonight . I normally don't ask these kinds of questions, but tonight is my local group's night to play. They are about to go up to rank 3. One of my player's is a Dilletante - Envoy. They recently inherited a small title and some land. They would probably be highly interested in Noble Lord as their next career move. Could someone please tell me what it's career ability is and if it has more than the standard, 2 talent slots. I'd like to be able to tell them what it is so they can choose to either wait to level or play something else. Any help would be highly appreciated. Happy gaming, Commoner
  11. I don't have the card on me, but I have a player who used to use it all the time, so a few points might be a bit off. First I would tell you to check the card. In its requirement does it state a melee weapon and pistol equipped? If I remember correctly it doesn't. So yes, he could go from the rifle to the sword, spending a maneuver to change weapons. You were wondering if they can't do it if they don't have a free maneuver? Curiously you then state you wouldn't let them spend a fatigue to switch weapons by using a maneuver? Yet if it was free you would let them do it? I don't mean to sound like a nagging girlfriend, but that just doesn't make sense. lol! kidding, of course. Warhammer combats don't represent a single round or limited time frame, like in standard games. It represents a long sequence of events. By the spirit of the rules using a maneuver is not a problem to switch weapons even if it says immediately. That is still pretty much immediately. Immediately also helps distinguishes a time frame. It allows a character to perform an additional attack. That is a serious variation from the norm of all the other cards. So it needed specific language to communicate this atttack happens now, not next turn, or next scene, but right now. The maneuver doesn't interrupt it. I also don't see what the big deal is about a card with a recharge 3 allowing you to shoot a rifle then make a basic attack with a sword at the cost of a purple die. Heck, Double Strike does basically the same thing, with less recharge and without having to make a second to hit roll. I just don't see it as "game breaking" when compared to the rest of the mechanics. I also don't see why you would want to limit your player in this way. I remember ruling once or twice, that the character could spend a maneuver to move and attack a different opponent with execution shot when either they rolled really well (lots of boons) or when it added dramatic emphasis to a scene. This isn't dnd 4e. Roleplay isn't miniature war gaming. No one wins or loses. Most of the cards really aren't that balanced anyway (Dramatic Flourish anyone? Sword and Board?). They are just ways for players to express how they view their character behaving, how they play out and act. If your player wants to go from a rifle to a sword swing, there is no harm in that at all. As a matter of a fact, that's a pretty cool idea that no one in my group has ever thought of. I like it! Just have fun, tell a great story and use the system to guide you to tell great stories with your fellow players. Sorry, my little rant will go leave now. Happy gaming, Commoner
  12. Nope. Only one player took the duelist style. Most of my players run around with one hand weapon. Surprisingly, no card is a one-hand weapon style card. I just don't get it. They don't really use mounts, so the mounted rules don't add much for us at the moment (but I imagine they will). The actions are nice, they are and are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything created for the War Dancers or Sword Masters. Those systems, from repeated play, seem wonky and really need a reworking. I honestly wish they would have just given those careers now advanced fighting styles, like the ones found in Omens. Overall it is a great supplement. My only real complaint is I feel it is the weakest big-box supplement to date. With the need of monster cards, location cards, etc. there are too few of each type so it sort of blands out a bit. I also feel that nearly all the careers being advanced wasn't helpful (I would have liked a basic knight) as most won't ever see them or not until rank 2 at the very least. And there simply wasn't enough non-combat oriented stuff in it. Even SOF had stuff like servants, which allowed for rounding out the entire play experience rather than just Priests. Omens did not have that and I would have liked to have seen that format kept, rather than abandoned by FFG design team. With all that being said, the merits speak for itself. The supplement is great. Have fun with it. They have yet to make a bad supplement. I just give this one 4 out of 5 rather than 5 out of 5 as I give the rest of them (though I don't own black fire pass yet). Have fun and as always, Happy Gaming, Commoner
  13. God no! Yes for those who play solely from them though. But that was the great 22 of the hardbacks in the first place, wasn't it? For the game itself, the last thing this game needs is more reprinting of covered material. It needs new solid material and a solid new direction. It was a mistake to re-publish the game that way in the first place. Of course, that's just my opinion. Personally, I think they should have just offered it off the website, like a print on demand, on how to use the game without components. Just a little packet would have been perfect. If you are one of those who went that route, I am glad you like the game, I just can't support the need for them...yet. We need at least the same amount of information released before the updating begins. But that's the rub isn't it? The books need more books. Ahhh, the spiral of confusion will never end. LOL!
  14. The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling! LOL! Hi, some of you may remember me. I used to post allllll the time on this forum. But due to life direction, I don't have much time for it anymore. I will say, yes it seems disheartening over the lack of information from FFG about this game. However, some little bird told me that Jay Little has been promoted and a new team has taken over. Great, in some respects. However, I think what we are dealing with here is an issue of direction. A new captain will want to make new decisions of where this game should go in the future. Their own spin on the game itself. So no, I don't think it's dead. What I think we are seeing is a shift in management that's taking some time. They are trying to finish out the products Jay and Dan had slated and now are moving over to the projects Chris and Dan are going to do. I think Chris is his name. Now, this isn't to say that WFRP has taken some serious heat. The hardbacks were a big mistake. I am sure they sold dozens of units at first, but they did divide and confuse the market about product entry. This had to directly effect sales. We used to get one supplement, then one module every other month last year. Now we are waiting until December for the last Chaos supplement? Really? With no pre-sale at Gencon even? Last year, we got Signs of Faith in October. It's a long way away still and no news on anything else. Also, it may seem that the 40K branch gets tons of news, but if you look at it, they actually only relate to one tittle. They add a title each year, put out one or two expansions each year for the others and move on. Sure they are all cross compatible, (hypothetically, but not really, lol!). So it just seems like they get something new every month, but they don't. If you were just a Rogue Trader player you wouldn't haven't have gotten anything in a while. Warhammer, so far, doesn't have spin off ranges. But who knows, that may be coming in the future... I have about a ba-jillion ideas for it, but I don't know if it sells well enough for it. As to the indexes, I have no idea why the indexes have been dropped. They are sort of required since it is the only way we can check to make sure we got all of the cards, etc. My guess is this has to do with the change of the design team. I don't think they don't care...but the base also might not be big enough to support it. These forums used to be jumping, but they aren't so much anymore. We have become comfortable with the game and many of us (like myself) are continuing playing and supporting, but not as active here. Heck, I still have to get Black Fire Pass and Witches Song. I used to pre-order everything, but my need is not there as much as it once was. Part of that could be due to some personal stuff, other parts are just my groups are so well founded, we just don't need more cards, more dwarf stuff, and no one is interested in being a Witch. So there you have it. I'll get them by the end of the year, but it's not nearly as pressing as the next Chaos supplement will be. Recently, I have noticed both GW and FFG have retracted the amount of announcements they have for their stuff. I can understand why some companies are going this way. Pre-info gives us a lot of time to dissect the product and decide if we hate it or love it. If the fans, on their forum all hate it, it may turn off other customers who might have really liked it, but follow along hating something just because 5 guys hate it and repeatedly bash it. Strike to Stun and RPG.net are great examples of this type of useless internet bandwagoning, especially when it comes to 3e. However, in the digital age, consumers get into products then drop products so fast it is insane. Constant media attention, constant updates, constant "support" is what the public demands. It also is a base for customers to say a company doesn't care about customers or to simply start saying something is dead because their attention span is moving too fast. It's not a lack of support at all. Back in the day, before the digital revolution, companies told their fans nothing. They created absolutely no errata, indexes or FAQ's or anything like that. They just put stuff out there and you bought it or you didn't. Early White Wolf barely released anything, yet every august I went to my shop and found the new core book. Companies due this crap now to keep us interested. So I find it curious when companies as big as FFG and GW don't support things as well. They may be short staffed yes, but I also believe all they would have to do is offer one warhammer player their stuff at cost or free and to get it a week ahead of time, and I am sure they would be willing to post indexes, errata, FAQ, etc. for free. I don't know why companies don't use its more ravid supporters (us) and give us swag as payment. It would have to cut overhead. But I'm not naming any names of who might be interested in something like that, *whistles as I walk away.* Happy gaming, Commoner
  15. Well, this is funny. I remember creating a thread about this topic last August, right after the rules light hardback deal was announced. I sited the biggest problem of the guide/vault is player confusion and shop owner confusion to get into the RPG. I was told I was crazy for it back then, lol! That's just funny to me. The other thing about those guides/vaults is Warhammer 3e for almost the entire year last year was a high ranking product on the charts (I believe it was always at least in the top 10, if not the top 5). However, it had problems in the fourth quarter. Which, I think, was largely due to a delay of the guides and vaults hitting stores and those books themselves. As a player who had everything, I had no reason to buy any of them, except the creature guide/vault. To this day, I have only bought the creature vault as I don't use that many monsters in my games, a 60 dollar monster manual wasn't worth it to me. I honestly don't think ffg meant it to be predatory (the guides/vaults) it just seems that way. We can argue all day which is true or not, but having met many of them, I just don't think that is their MO. In my opinion, FFG should have waited until the ruinous power cycle was completed, then combined all the previous material and put those out as a series of vaults and guides. However, if they did go that route, they would have to kill the core box...which I still believe, competing with it is a big, big mistake. All the careers from all the expansions that match each group and all the action cards various supplements added for those types go into the box. I also largely disagree with the assumption that all the boxes and expansions are in anyway predatory. I think the product was intended to get gamers who wanted to play without components into the game. Honestly, you can play the entire game with just the core box. I mean, winds of magic, signs of faith, and omens of war are great and all, but you don't really need a spell for every order or faith. As a matter of a fact, the core box covers, for the most part, most of the magical effects players want. You get 60 spells in the core. The beauty of what fantasy flight games has done, even for a consumer, is generate great reasons for us to buy all the warhammer products. It isn't to steal your money or to hunt your wallet, it's simply, they wanted to give us such great products that every supplement is worth its money to purchase. They've even stretched that into modules. You may run the module once, but you have a number of components to add to your game, so you get your value out of it. So saying the game is incomplete without all those supplements added is way, way off the point. It is also ludicrous saying that big company games like DND have a lower buy in. That is simply not true. It does if you have dice, minis, and everything else. Also, every game has dozens onto dozens of source books and supplements and additional material. Smaller companies, like indie game publishers, have lower volume of sales so they only really get 1-2 books for the games entire life. Yes Sorcerer or Spirit of the century is one game, but those games also have very limited scope and are not nearly as broad as warhammer setting or give as many options for play. Games like DND also do not give you setting on top of the core rules. You have to buy a setting and make up one yourself. The core rulebook for 4e, is just that, rules. Warhammer has a double duty of creating the diverse cultures and races established by warhammer and the rules system itself. So we get careers such as Trollslayer, which is really just a nitch career, instead of knight because they are important to its genre. DND core manuals do not have to make room for slayers in their core simply because it doesn't have to "waste" time with world creation. However, if you start looking into "buying into" a world, there are a stack of supplements a mile high you have to purchase as well. The price point difference is only an illusion and how much you as a consumer want to buy. Are FFG predators of your wallet simply because they make every one of their products, including warhammer, products you want to buy while other game companies simply fail to make all their supplements worth having?
  16. Well recently one of my players took this card and there has been some serious debate about how often it can be used. I searched the FAQ and I couldn't find an answer there, so I figured I'd try to get feedback from the community about it. Anyway, the wording on the card says when a character spends a fortune point on a basic skill check they do not have training in, they gain 2 fortune dice instead of one. The issue of debate is: what happens if the player spends more than one fortune point on the check? Do they gain two white dice for each fortune spent? One camp obviously says it should only give one fortune point based on the wording "a fortune point." However another camp says the description means that "a fortune point" means every time they invest a fortune point, even on the same roll, they gain the two fortune instead of just one. Both of these made sense to me so we looked at the other cards to try to figure it out, but that wasn't much help. Other cards with similar effects have a clarification on this issue such as 1 fortune point or a player may spend 1 stress to add a fortune point to a check and do not use the same language. So how are you guys running this card? And, how do you think it should be interpreted? Thanks and good gaming, Commoner
  17. Hey guys, sorry I haven't replied in a while. I got way busy and haven't even gamed in like 6 weeks. Getting back to things. I'll answer your questions soon and post up some card examples.
  18. k7e9 said: So, we got a preview of some nasty Severe Inujuries, they look great overall. The Warhammer world just became more grim and perilous, and I like it. In the preview FFG also states that these cards are critical wound cards that should be mixed with that deck. This approach sounds good, simple and fast but I am a little concerned about the probabilities. I hope that there will be some kind of though on how many % of the wound deck that should be Severe Injuries. If you have two core sets, all the expansions (including the vaults) you will have a much larger pile of wound cards than someone who only has the core set thus resulting in different probabilities depending on what you own. I for one hope that FFG releases some kind of % that they see as an "appropriate" ratio for severe injuries/wound deck. Furthermore this approach means that FFG "have to" provide new severe injuries each time they provide us with new wound cards in expansions to keep the % "right" and I hope that they have planned for this. Otherwise Severe Injuries will become less and less likely with every released expansion (if it contains wound cards that is). Any thought? Simply, trim the fat out of your wound deck. I mean, it's a deck. Cut it down to adjust based on the needs of your game and your story. It's as simple as that.
  19. Well, I haven't been here in a while, but I just had to comment on this. There are multiple types of contested checks in the system. If the opposed check mechanic isn't working for what you want out of a scene, use the contested check instead. I mean, we do have three mechanisms at our disposal to resolve task resolution, basic, opposed, and contested. I really don't understand what this drama is all about. The opposed mechanic works absolutely fine. It's designed to add emphasis to the story as all the mechanics are in this game. I had a roguish character try to steal something from another player. I as the GM thought it was best for the story that they succeeded. So I used this mechanic which gave the rogue a high chance of success. If I wasn't sure or thought it would be better to possibly derive further conflict from it, I could have made it contested. I have used it when I wanted a PC to have a good chance of succeeding or failing against an NPC. It largely depends on the curve you want to create, how much you want the action to succeed or not, or how critical the check is for the story. The contested mechanic is totally fair and balanced and works well when real dispute about the success of an action is necessary. When I once had two troll slayers racing to get to the demon first, I used the contested system instead of opposed. The guy with the lower stats succeeded. Because in this case, it was good natured fun and the outcome was better told through the contested mechanics because it ultimately added to the story for them to "race" with the dice. I also use it for moments where the outcome has to be give and take. Where the drama of the action is heightened by the dice, not subtracted from it. This is from my play experience of at least 150 sessions, if not more. Honestly, I feel the system is so well designed that people are just fishing for something to complain about. Contested actions in all systems favor a person with higher stats. I mean, if we both were on the d20 system and one guy with a skill of 15 and another guy with a skill of 2 are rolling for a TN 15, would you really be complaining then? High stats mean high success rates, get over it. We are lucky enough that WFRP gives us multiple ways to decide the outcome of these situations. Or did you just stop reading the page after you read opposed and didn't bother to read the contested section? LOL! Anyway, it's a game. Enjoy it and have fun. I do love how this thread, originally designed to temper the system hate on this board a year ago has become the flagship of system complaints. Hysterical. Good Gaming, Commoner
  20. I have been looking for an old post about the probability of the dice. It had a series of graphs that went with it. Does anyone know where that is? If they do, could they redirect me to them. If you had downloaded them/originally posted them, could you repost them in this thread. Thanks, in advance, Good Gaming, Commoner
  21. Alright, we don't have a lot. We used to have more, but many of them have been published by FFG after the fact (such as characteristics cap at 6). So here is the short list: 1) All characteristics start out at 2. A player can advance any characteristic to a 4 at generation unless it is a racial trait (toughness for dwarves). Those can be raised to a 5. 2) Maneuvers. This one really isn't a house rule...it is simply an interpretation of bane/boon effects. If two boons on a basic melee attack can trigger a maneuver and two boons can also give black dice to opponents or other beneficial side effects, then logic serves that the range of "maneuvers" should be bigger as well. So, this is how we play it. An action either: deals damage or influences a target (on a social action). Also, some major events of the narrative, such as picking a lock when the party is trying to escape will be counted as an action...but when that occurs, the GM notifies them of this before they attempt the action. All other actions (such as tripping, tackling, disarming, etc) are counted as a maneuver during combat. The reason behind this is it gives not only the player's more options, it increases the cinematic feel of the game and allows players to contribute more to the combat. Lets face it, you aren't going to knockdown an opponent which only gives them 1 misfortune die if they are on the ground and can simply get back up with their maneuver over double-striking or any other damage effect (unless it is absolutely necessary, of course). This freedom creates more dynamic combats and allows players (including the GM), to be more creative, involved and have more input into the encounters. Now, maneuvers such as tripping, etc. do take checks to perform and really important ones may even be opposed or contested. It just depends on the scene and what emphasis is needed. These maneuvers can also be collapsed into a combat check adding fortune and misfortune dice to the pool. That way we don't have to sit around for the player to make two rolls instead of one. 3) Aggravate. As a maneuver, a player engaged with a friendly ally, can assist him by performing Defense. This operates in a manner similar to an assist action, except in this case it adds a black die to the attacker's die pool. 4) Long term campaign. We find Warhammer levels very quickly. For those who want to invest a larger amount of time in the same characters (such as my main group), the leveling system needs to be slowed down. It also slightly adjusts the value of certain dice over others. Here is how it goes. A player must make 10 advances per level. A characteristic advance, instead of taking up a number of slots only counts as one slot, though all the required advancements to raise a characteristic must still be spent on the characteristic. So, if a player wants to raise their strength from a 3 to a 4 and it is a career characteristic, it would cost them 4 advances, but it only takes up one of the ten required leveling slots on the back of the character sheet. The cost to gain/raise advances is as follows: Characteristics, same system as published. Skills: 3 advances. Talents: 2. Fortune to a characteristic: 2. Action Card: 2. Specialty: 1. We also added in an xp mechanism. For every 5 xp the player earns, they gain 1 advance. In addition a player earns between 1- 7 xp a night, based on their actions and role-play...averaging to about 3 a night. There is also 5 story completion xp that can be gained at the end of a story. The player must fill 10 slots on their advancement profile in order to gain an additional rank. This does slow things down massively. In a little over one year of semi-regular play, my players are now roughly rank 3. Each earn, we feel, has a bit more impact and the choices player's make of what to get when they can buy advances seem more critical. Overall, we are very pleased with this system. However, at my LGS we use the system as written. It's great for 3-4 month games of regular play or any game really that's going to last about as long as one module...then be left for something else...only to later return to it for another 6-8 sessions. I do feel this is how most groups game, so I do feel the base system is really well done for what it is designed to do. 5) No card recharge. An exhausted talent refreshes at the every rally step or act. Also, in my main group, we play without card recharge unless the recharge is used to track an ongoing effect. We also use it for one shot powers, such as the priest of Ranald coin flipping card. At my LGS we use recharge on action cards. I don't so much see the point on talents, but hey, that's just me and it is good that the system is streamlined...so I would never cut it. Card recharge isn't a huge deal, I just feel there were better options without it. It's a great mechanism for what it does, though and after talking with some people about it , I find that I like it a lot more now and can see why it exists. Still, the Player's guide gives a great way to add additional damage, etc to combat checks. Also, some cards have to be rewritten mostly...just scaled to match the others. That took a lot of work to play without card recharge and I still don't know if it was really worth it, lol! No, it's fun and we like it. 5) Combat. We use the GM toolkit scaling damage system. 6) Last two pieces...we don't use assess the situation and perform a stunt. Assess was cut to add more emphasis to fatigue/stress. Perform a stunt was cut, because, my group does just fine without it. It's a great card, so please, don't take it that I hate it...we just don't need it. Stunting is my player's middle names, lol! Kidding. Again, for new gamers or gamers not used to such creative freedom (because dnd 3e-4e has sucked all creativity from their brains), they love this card. I even know vets who do. My main group and I have a play style that just doesn't really need this extra push. But then again, we love interpreting dice rolls and anything that stops us from interpreting them or limits that, drives us a little nuts. Like I said, they are not that impressive. There aren't any super comets or terrible star effects...but the system doesn't really need them. As long as the GM isn't holding back on black dice and adding purple dice for conditions, effects, etc. So, sorry it isn't impressive and only minor, but I love WFRP just the way it is. It only needs modifications for certain "modes" of play (such as long term campaigns). Good Gaming, Commoner
  22. Hey Mal and Dvang, Good to see you guys too! Thanks for everyone's input on the review. I have a few rebuttles (as those familiar with my posts I often do). Jenny Barnes was our major problem-solving force. We had Joe Diamond, Jenny Barnes, and Harvey Walters as our three investigators. Jenny simply threw her skill points at them, ended up with a 6, and solved them no problem. As a matter of a fact, Harvey barely managed to find his way out of a freezer, then, when he realized where the final clue was raced to get there, only to arrive and realize, he couldn't get passed the final lock. Joe Diamond picked up some gear and bailed Jenny out at the last minute...but every puzzle, but one was solved by Jenny. We also never made passed third event (in the first scenario). That's how fast they just plowed through it. Even with m I am running this again tomorrow night (I wanted to play, but based on time and experience, I'm at the running helm...which I'd rather leave for other games ). I will try the timer on the puzzles as it did seem to absolutely kill the momentum. It was the only time I lost the other players attention on the game. I do like your example of the sample situation. I wish I would have used more of them, but I didn't use them at all...not fully being aware of how I could use them. The game definitely needs red herrings and I wish there were more of them throughout. Set up time: My players did help set up. They did everything you listed Dvang and they were done well before I was. Plus, I couldn't place cards until the map was set up which they did last (which I now realize they will be doing first.). To answer the question about set-up time, it tooks us 2 HOURS! Now wait, before your jaw drops completely...we were playing with a store copy left over from a demo that weekend. It was a mess. So 45-50 minutes of that was sorting and letting investigators choose their characters. Also, I had only read the rules online, never cracked the keeper guide beforehand, so I really didn't know what to expect. It was not nearly as intuitive as I wanted it to be. I know the cards are right in the face down option as well on the page, but I'm not sorting the cards face down! LOL! I don't quite know how I'd find them that way, to be honest, as the backs don't really tell me what the card is on the other side. Hahahah! Honestly, they should have listed it the other way. It would have made sorting a bit faster. But, I now know to read the entries backwards, so there you go. One other layout thing they could have done for it would be to organize the entire sections off of the objectives, in chart form with pretty columns. So you just had to look down your row and cross reference based on room. The page lay out is actually a nightmare, in my opinion. I see why they would have chosen to sort by room, by objective but really, your sorting by objective by room. Sanity: Sanity I messed up until our first break, Mal, and I fully admit it. I reread the rules and I was like oh, that's how it works. Yeah...they weren't taking sanity checks for maniacs...I know, I know, bad Keeper. Oh well. We still had fun with it. I will keep my eye on it though Mal. Item Limit: No, it isn't 100% necessary...but again, it would help with the division of labor between the party. Making who carries what more of a critical decision and may give other players more use. Plus, in future expansions it could matter. It is also a bench mark of horror, those critical choices. Do I the fire extinguisher for the shotgun. Oh no, three turns later there is a fire and I stupidly dropped the fire extinguisher. It would help build tension, suspense, etc by building pressure. This is necessary for horror and for great storytelling. All films and most books feature very important items...many of which become more important as the story develops. Having players back track to get an item just at the most tense moments, truly would increase that drama. So no, not necessarily needed for real equipment limitations...but highly necessary to increase the tone, feel, and story of the game as well as player's critical choices and not knowing what comes next. Play Time: It only took us a little over an hour to finish the first game. They just blew threw it. Grant it there were breaks, but the system is very fast and very intuitive. It was a great time all and all. All in all though, 2 hour set up, 1 hour of breaks and roughly over an hour of playtime + clean up and I'd say 4 1/2 hours. Now the set up is a bit of a misnomer and it was our first time, so I'd say roughly 3 hours. About as long as a game of Arkham Horror (if you play that senik). So now that I've opened the box and own the game: I figured I should come back here and give a further review now that I own the game. It does not change my initial opinion of it...however, I don't know if the price is right for it. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the components and they really are exceptional, I just don't know, as a stand alone product if I will get 80 dollars worth of replay out of it. Replay is really the big limitation here. I hope FFG pumps out scenarios (or some die-hard fans) online. But the thing is, there are roughly 15 different outcomes in the game, roughly...(3 outcomes for 5 stories), yet there is a lot of repetition about how those final moments play out. There are tons of things that could have pushed this further already in place in the game...I just see players beginning to fade interest when the play is very similar. Now, I know this may sound weird as a follow up, but for roughly 10 dollars more a customer can get Arkham Horror and 1 big box expansion. Honestly, the replay value there is huge. I have played easily over 100 games of Arkham and am still not bored with the thing. It's not so much that the win condition changes, but the lose condition changes...the whole dynamic and my involvement really changes. Even without that additional expansion, Arkham is so vast and interchanging that I feel this game sort of lacks that level of complexity. Sure, it definitely makes up for it in simplicity and really the mechanical design is top-notch, I just don't find quite the value = to the price...which I usually get out of FFG games. Now when compared to descent I find it way more engaging overall. I mean, it is the nature of the Dungeon Crawl beast, but this really has a way more dynamic, story driven format that I think a game like descent could easily have. It also plays faster and limits the keeper power so their actions don't become ridiculous. Two of my players hate descent. One of them loves this game...the other, well, she can't get behind, "games that are designed toward playing out the most boring parts of roleplay...the systems!" Hahahah! Her words, not mine. She did admit she liked it better than descent. A part of me would have liked some Descent type dice in there (or the Arkham dice), but I still sit the fence on that one. It would kill the speed of play...which so reminds me of Chaosium's COC. Overall, I still think it's a great game. And I will post a further review after a few more games. Maybe issues such as replay may dwindle based on how my next few sessions go on. All and all, my review may sound critical...but these are minor things and simple concerns. The game is good and if you like Descent style play or like Cthulhu rpg or a great horror/suspense board game...it's a good game. Seriously. Lol! Oh, and one easy way they could have done equipment (backpacks) is with a series of sockets on the cards...that attach to other cards...and you are limited by the number of sockets the cards and your character have to the number of items you can carry. This could vary based on character card you choose...some items could even have sockets that come off those items so other items can link into them. While larger items (such as shot guns), have no additional sockets. Gee, I wonder where that idea came from?
  23. Hi, new to this section of FFG, as I usually post in other forums. I finally got a chance to play this game. I have been playing Arkham Horror for years so when I saw this was coming out I was very excited about it. I am happy to say that the game is pretty solid and my group enjoyed it a lot. I was the keeper so I can only review it from that standpoint. Overall, I will say the game plays very well. I really like how fast turns can go, the story elements were surprisingly well written - which I was happy to see as the game completely depends on them. Players have a good number of options of things to do, which was also great. The system really didn't take long to pick up at all and all the steps were very straight forward. It did a good job building suspense and it felt, at times, it was a lot like Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu, except without all the roleplaying stuff thrown it. But it did remind me of those bi-gone days when I would run RPG modules of Cthulhu. It really does do a great job of capturing the feel of Cthulhu. Though there are mechanics (as many of you know) that are very descent based, the mythos cards are absolutely better handled. I really liked the fact players had an opportunity to make checks to avoid my more powerful cards. Also, it seems like Threat builds up more slowly, giving the players more breathing room. I always hated, in descent, when Overlords would try to pound you to death in the first few rooms and it took hours to get through it. These games, with the keeper having so much power, can often feel like the players are there to entertain the overlord/keeper at times. I did not at all find that to be the case with MoM. Again, I really did think it played very well and smoothly. To be a bit more critical of the game, this is what I found to be troublesome. On one hand, the players have a lot more freedom to split up, but it does seem, with the 3 clue mechanism that one player takes the brunt of the "story" work and the other two players are simply there to support them. Sure, there can be trading of necessary items, etc. But it does lend itself to that style of play. One of my players didn't find much to do at all and got a little bored since the story did not engage him as much as it did the other two players. I feel there needed to either more clues or more things for the other players to do that could contribute to the story. I know that the guy who whacks tons of monsters did a lot of stuff, but to the function of the game, he wasn't really participating in the main game, which was, to uncover/solve the story. Which could be how the story mechanism itself is designed. You are supposed to go from point a to b to c, then solve the problem. Exploration seemed very linear to me and exploring beyond the three central clues seemed somewhat pointless, other than better gear. This could have been fixed simply by the Keeper being able to place at least one of the vital objects where they wanted to, but instead, those are all scripted based on choices. I also think the game could have benefited from sub-plots. For instance, there are the three main clues of the game. However, there could be a sub-plot the other players could be involved in that would in someway help them find something that would be useful toward their final win condition. My next problem was keeper set up. I don't know how to say it politely, but its not well done. For those who play Arkham Horror with an expansion, I think you might get what I mean. First off you have to build your decks. Which would be like before every new game of Arkham, you had to pull one expansion from your game. Then, based on your choices, you have to find locations all across the board and put very specific cards in over a dozen rooms. These list change as well based on the choices you made, so you have to check and double check to make sure you are placing the right choice cards in the right room. The cards are also listed in the book not in the order they should be placed, but in reverse (i.e. lock cards, which should go on top of the pile are not listed first, they are listed last). The exploration cards also have no guide to tell you what scenarios they are going to be used in so you have to first sort a deck, then seperate that deck, then place them where they belong. There are a number of fixed items and random items in the game. The random items could have been one deck that is set up off to the side and the key, fixed items could have been set up in a pile. This way, the players could have drawn the random items...well, randomly and the fixed items could have been triggered when players explored certain rooms as it is now, without having to do all that card sorting. Honestly, I don't think that would have changed the game very much. Lastly, the puzzles. They are an alright mechanism, and I can tell the designers put a lot of top notch work into them. However, I never really saw them doing much to change the game. My players were always capable of solving them in one turn and then the game moved on. I will have to play it more to really say one way or another, but they didn't seem to pose a real challenge or a threat. My player's didn't like them at all. I didn't mind them, but I was a keeper so I didn't have to do one. However, it did seem like the game lost momentum every time one came up. We'd be going strong, then a puzzle was triggered, and there was a 3-10 minute wait for the player to solve the puzzle (which was done in one turn), then the game moved on. Maybe they are better used in other scenarios, but in this case, I just didn't see it. One thing I would have also liked to have seen is the use of hands. I know it's picky, but I would have really liked to see how many hands items and equipment took up, that way players could use a pistol and a sword, etc. I would have liked to see an item limit on the number of items the investigator's could carry. This could have been done with a simple printed number on a character sheet. This way, players would have to make more critical choices and the drop item function might have come up more. But I will admit, I am a huge fan of survival horror (which is how I've always viewed Cthulhu), so I guess I just found that missing. My final thoughts are that this game didn't bring a whole lot of new dimension to the Keeper vs. group style of games. It is an absolutely great game, don't get me wrong, I just didn't see it push new ground in that direction, except for the story being the motivation of the game. Hopefully future expansions will add more dimensions to that (more than just new scenarios/equipment/and gear). Overall, I give the game a 7.
  24. Seriously guys? Quitting over a few misprints? Burn FFG to the ground because they missed a few cards? Put their children on pikes outside their company just because the recharge value of x card is printed wrong? I don't get where all this anger is coming from. I mean, every game, every one I have ever played had giant, glaring, editing wholes in them. Ever played a game printed by GW. Did you try DND 3rd. Have you ever tried to play a White Wolf game? Have you ever read a published novel? A school text book? There are errors all over those as well! This is the nature of the RPG beast. Of the writing beast. So I really don't understand why we need a four page thread bitching the FFG sucks...I mean, everything I've ever paid money for typically has some flaws to it. Especially in the entertainment fields of the world. I really don't know what else to say. Other than that I am sure actual component fixes, such as the cards, we will eventually receive in form of a PDF, as they have done it in the past with Rapid Fire and Double Strike. Just be patient. In my opinion, the Players guide is mostly clear about all the major rules. There are some bits when it comes to the career that are off, but the FAQ addresses it. Plus, if you play with components you do have the card to double check it against. I don't at all consider it a waste of money. The rules on First Aid versus care and the rest made perfect sense to me. As First Aid is called...first aid, I never thought it would apply to the Magic or any other form of care. I also disagree that the player's guide has only reprinted information in it. There is new stuff in there...sure nothing monumental, but there's enough bits it was worth purchasing it for me. But this is a recreation for me, one I happen to enjoy, so who cares. Also, if you are upset about buying it, FFG made it pretty clear there was nothing really "new" in it. So I don't see how you can possibly feel short-changed. I seriously don't understand what all this rage about some misprints are. These things happen...get over it? Happy Gaming, Commoner
  25. D4M0CLES said: Here is my list, i possess all the curently released products so i think i'm a good judge at how useful they are! To be honest, i think you should skip any adventure until you get these stuff: 1) Winds of Magic (wizard book + Tzeentch chaos god and Mutation rules) 2) Signs of Faith (priest book + Nurgle god and Disease rules, may go first if you prefer than the mage one) 3 and 4) Creature Vault (necessary for GMs to run a smooth game) and Creature Guide (excellent GM source material)... will add more monsters to your arsenal and is really useful once your start creating your own adventure. Personnaly i would start with the guide before adding monster components. 5) Player Guide (all the game rules updated and in one place is awesome, complete listing of careers, talents and powers is really helpful) 6) GMs Guide (good source material for GM to replace your booklet and have all the extra rules in one place, + listing of all condition, mutation n disease) OPTIONNAL NEXT: An Adventure (i think you should wait for The Witch Song which add 2 new careers, some spells, include creature cards and looks awesome), GM Toolkit (only useful for the GM screen and a few more hints are being a good GM) SKIP those: - Player Vault & GM Vault and let your players buy them if they want more cards or their own stuff. If your only beginning, i suggest you skip both Gathering Storm or Edge of Night for now. They are really good adventure with some minor additionnal material for any game, but there is plenty of adventures released so far in core set + sign of faith + winds of magic to support your first 12 sessions easily and they are really good. Hopes it helps you! I agree with this list almost completely. I think the Winds of Magic and Signs of Faith are must have items. Plus, you get a ton of great monsters in the core and the Winds of Magic and Signs of Faith give you tons of additional chaos monsters. From there it is a crap shoot...the player's guide really does clarify the system. The Creature vault adds new monsters and is great, so it's a toss up. If you buy the Winds of Magic and Signs of Faith, you can skip the GM Guide all together. It is more or less a compilation of those supplements. The GM Toolkit is a much better buy. You get the screen, plus a ton of additional cards, adventure splats, how to better manage chits, and I like the Nemisis Organization cards. People will complain about the screen, the biggest one is the maneuver cost for changing ranges, but it is on there. Sure, it could have been better, but it still is a pretty great screen none the less. Also, the player's vault and GM vault. If you really consider going that route of wanting extra cards, just buy another core from Amazon. It's roughly the same price, but you get dice in it. Those two vaults really offer nothing to someone who owns a set and plans on getting more. In ways, buying another core from Amazon is better than buying additional die sets. Just my two cents on that point. Yeah, those are my thoughts. The GM Toolkit gets a bad wrap and it is weaker than signs of faith and Winds of Magic, but its no worse than the Adventurer's toolkit at all.
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