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commoner

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  1. HI, I used to post here all the time, but got busy and sort of fell of the radar. Now that I have more free time I came here to see what's been going on with FFG and the fantastic Edge of Empires game coming up (that I've very recently gotten the chance to play a lot more). For the past 5 years, until edge of empire, I have played Warhammer almost exclusively. My group even began porting other games into the Warhammer mechanics and I've ran almost everything using this system. The only real criticism I've ever heard about the game from other players is that the action cards and stance meters are the flaw of the game. This does not include the stance dice. They work fine, but the meter itself gets in the way of the game for them. The action cards and the complex recharge mechanics they also don't like. They just want to say what they do and not have a card dicatate how its done. This has been the case from playing at my local game shop to the group I play with regularly. So, I began running the game without them. Once you cut these components you cut out over 2/3 of what player's consider to be the "fiddly" bits. It works beautifully. The only issue is you have to cut all the talents that relate to "recharge" and redefine what the delay symbol means. However, the description in the books give clear examples on how to use it. To me, this sets the dice free and the player's have a lot less to worry about. I think its funny on how well the Star Wars mechanics are being received comparatively. Star Wars is a great game, but it's essentially what I am describing: Warhammer without action cards. Star Wars maintains talents, it's just talents on one big fiddly bit - the talent sheet. The Force powers are the same as a Wizard Spell, but instead of the chart being printed on a card, its printed in a book. There is a still a micro-chart that explains how the power works that players are still required to track, it just tracks them differently. Now, there are some major differences between the systems, I am not denying that, but at their core, they are the same game. Years ago, in the house rules section I proposed creating essentially the harder, difficulty die that upgrades a purple when facing a serious bad guy. I am glad to see it in star wars (and I think Warhammer could still use it - my famous Orange die). So its the same game in a different package. I do think its success - when comapred to the criticisms of Warhammer - is the removal of action cards and card recharge. But way back, 5 years ago (the stone age right?) the entire gaming industry was obsessed with designing MMO style RPG table top games. Even DND 4e, the walking disaster, was obsessed with it. It's what killed 4e over time as well. Actions being codified people do not want in an RPG anymore (if ever). It was a way to try to bridge a gap between MMO's and RPG's, but it just didn't work. I do think Warhammer (and Star Wars) now face a new challenge. With the rise of games like Fate, Dungeon World, Burning Wheel, and other indie narrative games these big-box, traditionalist model games have a new beast. The market is changing drastically in terms of what people are looking for from an RPG experience and new, fresh designers are taking a totally different look at the RPG experience - though it has been around for years. Star Wars as well as the little I've heard about the next DnD is trying to bridge the gap between the traditionalist model and the narrative game. I think Warhammer was a great attempt at this as well, I just think it got lost in all the vitriole about "fiddly" bits. I do think its funny though anytime I hear someone sing the praise of these narrative games, then criticize the Warhammer dice. In a nutshell, no other narrative game - though they all try - are as capable of creating the type of narrative outcomes from their core mechanics as the dice FFG are now producing. They use complex mechanics to try and achieve it, but so far, they fail to capture the diverse nature of banes/boons. It just can't be done on a binary mechanic of standard dice. These dice offer so many more narrative possibilities than any other system out there. If you don't believe me, play Dungeon World straight up, then play it again modding it over using Warhammer Dice - just the dice, nothing else. It is by far a better narrative experience. I do think that Star Wars will be well received - and I am glad that it is - but I wonder, 5 years from now, if the current trend of Narrative games continue to rise from the indie markets, I feel that it will be criticized for some of its more traditionalist mechanics that it adheres to currently. Just as 5 years later, Warhammer is seen as Star Wars' clumsy, ugly grandfather. Just last night, I read a Star Warsmodification to the Apocalypse World Engine. It wasn't half bad, but I think FFG's is better. So, if Warhammer was to be revised I think they should look at cutting the action cards entirely and I think people would have a massively different reaction to it. I am curious to see if this is what's coming in the future for it. Happy gaming, Commoner
  2. The game doesn't suck. Not even close. I have been playing it extensively - now along side Star Wars Edge of Empire for years. I've even proxied a number of other games to this mechanic. The biggest complaint I hear is the action cards. It is the source of 90% of the "fiddly" bits as people like to call them. The other one is the stance meter. It is also another "fiddly" mechanic. I largely disagree that these are fiddly, just a different way to do things than most people are used to. It's a great game, we'll just have to see what the future holds.
  3. New Zombie said: k7e9 said: Dark Bunny Lord said: Well if you find it be sure to reply once more. I know that when they initially become KO'd they take a crit but beyond that I couldn't find anything referencing it (mind you I'm just looking at the players manual). Hi, looked over my books and as the others already posted there were no clear rules on the subject, must have read it here on the forums. i was sure i had read it somewhere... and i did... it is in the latest FAQ If a PC has been knocked unconscious by exceeding his wound threshold, what happens if he suff ers additional wounds? Most of the time, when you’re unconscious you’re just at the mercy of the environment or the GM. The goblin can just climb on top of you and slit your throat if no one’s around to stop it; we don’t need rules for that. (But isn’t it more interesting if he ties you up and puts you in a cage?) However, if you want to model additional damage on an unconscious character, each time a character takes damage above his wound threshold, one of those wounds is turned faceup as a critical (just like the blow that knocked him unconscious). If he then has more critical wounds than his toughness, he dies. Interesting...thanks for pointing that out. I do think it's great they left it up to us to figure out how to manage this part of the mechanic. I have also ruled, during some scenes, that a player whose character doesn't have a number of critical wounds equal to their wound threshold can choose to either go unconscious (removing the risk of death), or they can continue to act, be it at an additional challenge die to all their checks. The trade off is, ko'd characters do not risk further injury where as a character who is severely injured risks injury and potentially death. They receive additional wounds and criticals as described above. I find my players really like the call and have allowed them to avoid some harrowing spots. Of course, some combats I have not made this offer to them...because it was best for the story. I really do like working with players to make the experience as fun for them as it is for me. Happy gaming, Commoner
  4. I think, without a shadow of a doubt, we will see something very similar to WFRP used in the star wars line....if they can. It could be that GW has a lock-down on the mechanics since they are massive control-freaks when it comes to their IP. I doubt they want their precious warhammer to float, even remotely close, to the giant of Lucasfilm. So we may or may not see the exact same mechanics. I also have a strong guess that Jay being moved off of warhammer has something to do with Warhammer. Sure he got a promotion, but I think he'll be directly involved. If they do go in the direction of warhammer, I am pretty sure they'll keep action cards. They are a great way to get us to buy more supplements, after all and are a great resource/tool for the dice mechanics. The only part that might bug me is the force powers when it comes to recharge. You don't want to have your jedi's being able to "force jump" once then have to wait four turns before they can do it again. It would lose the cinematic feel. I'd rather have them take force powers in a completely different direction, about weighing the risks of an action versus the benefits gained. The ability to push your power, but ever so greedily, face corruption by the dark side. The cost is in some other mechanic or greater penalties for failure. But that's my two cents about that. Happy gaming, Commoner
  5. Amehdaus said: I love the look of the Twins, and the source is close to heart. I feel strongly that the story is about the Player Characters and not their hirelings. On a player's turn, it should be the PC in the spotlight and so I feel that henchman-esque bonuses should modify the PC's actions, not act independently of them. For this reason, I personally don't like the idea of the NPCs acting independently or under orders and making their own rolls. The precedent set by the Small but Vicious Dog makes me believe the game designers feel the same way, but I have a pretty large ego so the connection may be in my head. ^_- Examples of mechanics I feel support this: Allow the PC to use a yellow die for Nature Lore with a specialization in tracking as long as he has a skilled guide handy. Allow the PC to make a Leadership test in place of a Nature Lore test as long as he has a skilled guide handy. Passively grant the PC a white die to Nature Lore while he has a skilled guide handy. Allow the guide to have "Trick" slots with the same trick effects as the Small but Vicious Dog. These need not necessarily be purchased as a Trick, but might be free options to switch out to represent the orders you give your hireling. No tracking or single-stat tracking (i.e. Loyalty) to minimize book-keeping on NPC. A maximum of 2-sided class-card sized (possibly with sockets) to record all stats relevant to an NPC -- only one side should have stats (the other, flavor). This equates to 1/3 of the board space used to track a PC (character sheet + career card). Socketing the Henchman into a talent slot of the PC sheet or Party sheet is a fair cost to the mechanical boosts -- with the socket being mutable as a maneuver under the normal rules. While unsocketed, the NPC simply cannot provide benefits. Cash and/or XP and/or Story rewards and/or Fortune convertable to loyalty, depending on how you typically reward players* Flavorfully describing a Prepare or Assist maneuver to include how the NPC is involved. Grant the PC a free Prepare or Assist maneuver in combat, as long as he has a skilled mercenary/combatant handy. Boon/Bane effects reflecting how the NPC aids the player (i.e. [bo][bo] Mercenary increases damage by number of hammers reflecting a team attack). All effects are based off of the player's dice roll, requiring no wasted time double checking a hireling's stat line. Using the Loyalty stat as a resource used by the player for singular effects. *Having an option of Loyalty reward is a great way to reward players for a good scene that doesn't directly contribute to player advancement (as would xp or money) -- Alternate rewards are something I consider a great deal to find ways to reward players that don't lead to power creep mid-adventure. Brainstorming this list, I realized a few new mechanics that are great generics to be used across a variety of NPCs, and I'd like to invite anyone else to add to this list of "generic" hireling boons that can be mixed/matched to create a hireling for any situation. I agree with this philosophy and am 100% behind your design principle. I normally handle the PC's attache's in the exact same manner, but I do not track their loyalty per se, but I will be using this I think from now on...I really do like it. They normally, in my universe give assistance in the form of white, which you have tracked. Better NPC's give better dice. The dice do express additional bonuses like you call for. The principle is 100& sound. You could have it on a talent card. Loyalty could be a flat number, tracking tokens placed on the card to record how much it is effecting the party. The NPC could then "switch' hands to reflect who they are helping, or be attached to the party card. I like the idea of it being able to move and instead of granting a generic bonus across the board, it can only help one person per turn as a "free" maneuver, and everything else costs 1 loyalty. Their loyalty is regained when any action says regain stress or fatigue, as you bolster their morale. Just a quick thought before I'm off to bed. Happy gaming, Commoner
  6. Hey, it could be worse... At least you didn't drop it into your chair. Or for that matter, a stack of action cards. Now that would have been the true test of durability
  7. Mousegaurd also has a similar dice mechanic, require specialized dice...and condition cards...and might as well be called micehammer. kidding. They don't have action cards. Which may or may not be bad, depending on your POV about them. I personally love them and used to rail on the recharge mechanic...until they released more cards, especially Omens of War which fixed many of my gripes about recharge. It gives players tons of options....but I guess this thread isn't about that, so I digress, lol! I HOPE it starts a new trend and Warhammer will get more love. But Gamers can be whiney grognards and love to dig their heels in post a knee jerk decision. So I have a feeling the other companies will be praised for their "innovations" while warhammer is left dwarfed in the shadows of titans. However, I do see the rest of the industry adopting many of its principles and mechanics. Because... I don't care who you are and what you've played and how much experience or inexperience you have, these dice, these mechanics, are the best thing to happen to RPG's in a very, very long time. It is innovation at it's finest. Heck, a couple of groups (besides just me) have adopted many core features (the dice, the condition cards, wounds/insanity) into homebrews involving a wide-range of other genres and have found it has improved those games a thousand fold. The greatest success in that is what I have seen a crew around here do with the White Wolf old Storyteller mechanics. Man, in their opinion it is what the white wolf system always intended itself to be (you know about telling stories with real cost and gains), but never was before. After sitting in on a session or two, I have to say I agree with them. The only limit for genre adoption is the visual lay out of the dice are very warhammer. It sometimes just doesn't match the "feel" of other games. But oh well, neither did a d8, no matter how sparkly it was. It is a small price to pay for the quality of information they communicate. I really do hope to see more games designed in the scope of 3e. I'd love to take a crack at it myself, if ever given the chance. The possibilities are endless. Happy gaming, Commoner
  8. I disagree with the house rule, but I can see how people would interpret it that way. The only difference between intermediate and advanced is that they are different terms, meaning they cost more when leveling to the next one. Some are more prohibitive by the terms (such as wizard and priest careers), but in general, this is not the case. Other than the extra cost, they are identical and neither can be taken as a basic career. In general, non magic, intermediate and advanced careers are really no more powerful than their neighbors so I think the house rule is pointlessly limiting, but to each their own. The key is to have fun. I generally choose not to limit my players and their imaginations and what they want out of their gaming experience. I can whoop the pointy butt of any tier two or tier three assassin if I really, really need too (as a GM and in combat or out of it). Same goes for Iron Breakers and Sword Master. Anyway, hope that helps. Happy gaming, Commoner
  9. Love the lists. Here is one I add. Fear and Terror having little beneficial side effects I am not a huge fan of. I have interpreted it several ways, so I figure I'd shoot them out. succeed: same as book. 3 successes, regain 1 stress and fatigue as you steady yourself to face the terror. 2 boons, add fortune to the first check you make against the target. comet: gain the invigorated card and place 3 recharge tokens on it, as you need to overcome this new peril as fast as possible. There's a quick one off the top of my head.
  10. This is great news. Unfortunately my local store doesn't have it in stock tonight . I normally don't ask these kinds of questions, but tonight is my local group's night to play. They are about to go up to rank 3. One of my player's is a Dilletante - Envoy. They recently inherited a small title and some land. They would probably be highly interested in Noble Lord as their next career move. Could someone please tell me what it's career ability is and if it has more than the standard, 2 talent slots. I'd like to be able to tell them what it is so they can choose to either wait to level or play something else. Any help would be highly appreciated. Happy gaming, Commoner
  11. I don't have the card on me, but I have a player who used to use it all the time, so a few points might be a bit off. First I would tell you to check the card. In its requirement does it state a melee weapon and pistol equipped? If I remember correctly it doesn't. So yes, he could go from the rifle to the sword, spending a maneuver to change weapons. You were wondering if they can't do it if they don't have a free maneuver? Curiously you then state you wouldn't let them spend a fatigue to switch weapons by using a maneuver? Yet if it was free you would let them do it? I don't mean to sound like a nagging girlfriend, but that just doesn't make sense. lol! kidding, of course. Warhammer combats don't represent a single round or limited time frame, like in standard games. It represents a long sequence of events. By the spirit of the rules using a maneuver is not a problem to switch weapons even if it says immediately. That is still pretty much immediately. Immediately also helps distinguishes a time frame. It allows a character to perform an additional attack. That is a serious variation from the norm of all the other cards. So it needed specific language to communicate this atttack happens now, not next turn, or next scene, but right now. The maneuver doesn't interrupt it. I also don't see what the big deal is about a card with a recharge 3 allowing you to shoot a rifle then make a basic attack with a sword at the cost of a purple die. Heck, Double Strike does basically the same thing, with less recharge and without having to make a second to hit roll. I just don't see it as "game breaking" when compared to the rest of the mechanics. I also don't see why you would want to limit your player in this way. I remember ruling once or twice, that the character could spend a maneuver to move and attack a different opponent with execution shot when either they rolled really well (lots of boons) or when it added dramatic emphasis to a scene. This isn't dnd 4e. Roleplay isn't miniature war gaming. No one wins or loses. Most of the cards really aren't that balanced anyway (Dramatic Flourish anyone? Sword and Board?). They are just ways for players to express how they view their character behaving, how they play out and act. If your player wants to go from a rifle to a sword swing, there is no harm in that at all. As a matter of a fact, that's a pretty cool idea that no one in my group has ever thought of. I like it! Just have fun, tell a great story and use the system to guide you to tell great stories with your fellow players. Sorry, my little rant will go leave now. Happy gaming, Commoner
  12. Nope. Only one player took the duelist style. Most of my players run around with one hand weapon. Surprisingly, no card is a one-hand weapon style card. I just don't get it. They don't really use mounts, so the mounted rules don't add much for us at the moment (but I imagine they will). The actions are nice, they are and are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything created for the War Dancers or Sword Masters. Those systems, from repeated play, seem wonky and really need a reworking. I honestly wish they would have just given those careers now advanced fighting styles, like the ones found in Omens. Overall it is a great supplement. My only real complaint is I feel it is the weakest big-box supplement to date. With the need of monster cards, location cards, etc. there are too few of each type so it sort of blands out a bit. I also feel that nearly all the careers being advanced wasn't helpful (I would have liked a basic knight) as most won't ever see them or not until rank 2 at the very least. And there simply wasn't enough non-combat oriented stuff in it. Even SOF had stuff like servants, which allowed for rounding out the entire play experience rather than just Priests. Omens did not have that and I would have liked to have seen that format kept, rather than abandoned by FFG design team. With all that being said, the merits speak for itself. The supplement is great. Have fun with it. They have yet to make a bad supplement. I just give this one 4 out of 5 rather than 5 out of 5 as I give the rest of them (though I don't own black fire pass yet). Have fun and as always, Happy Gaming, Commoner
  13. God no! Yes for those who play solely from them though. But that was the great 22 of the hardbacks in the first place, wasn't it? For the game itself, the last thing this game needs is more reprinting of covered material. It needs new solid material and a solid new direction. It was a mistake to re-publish the game that way in the first place. Of course, that's just my opinion. Personally, I think they should have just offered it off the website, like a print on demand, on how to use the game without components. Just a little packet would have been perfect. If you are one of those who went that route, I am glad you like the game, I just can't support the need for them...yet. We need at least the same amount of information released before the updating begins. But that's the rub isn't it? The books need more books. Ahhh, the spiral of confusion will never end. LOL!
  14. The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling! LOL! Hi, some of you may remember me. I used to post allllll the time on this forum. But due to life direction, I don't have much time for it anymore. I will say, yes it seems disheartening over the lack of information from FFG about this game. However, some little bird told me that Jay Little has been promoted and a new team has taken over. Great, in some respects. However, I think what we are dealing with here is an issue of direction. A new captain will want to make new decisions of where this game should go in the future. Their own spin on the game itself. So no, I don't think it's dead. What I think we are seeing is a shift in management that's taking some time. They are trying to finish out the products Jay and Dan had slated and now are moving over to the projects Chris and Dan are going to do. I think Chris is his name. Now, this isn't to say that WFRP has taken some serious heat. The hardbacks were a big mistake. I am sure they sold dozens of units at first, but they did divide and confuse the market about product entry. This had to directly effect sales. We used to get one supplement, then one module every other month last year. Now we are waiting until December for the last Chaos supplement? Really? With no pre-sale at Gencon even? Last year, we got Signs of Faith in October. It's a long way away still and no news on anything else. Also, it may seem that the 40K branch gets tons of news, but if you look at it, they actually only relate to one tittle. They add a title each year, put out one or two expansions each year for the others and move on. Sure they are all cross compatible, (hypothetically, but not really, lol!). So it just seems like they get something new every month, but they don't. If you were just a Rogue Trader player you wouldn't haven't have gotten anything in a while. Warhammer, so far, doesn't have spin off ranges. But who knows, that may be coming in the future... I have about a ba-jillion ideas for it, but I don't know if it sells well enough for it. As to the indexes, I have no idea why the indexes have been dropped. They are sort of required since it is the only way we can check to make sure we got all of the cards, etc. My guess is this has to do with the change of the design team. I don't think they don't care...but the base also might not be big enough to support it. These forums used to be jumping, but they aren't so much anymore. We have become comfortable with the game and many of us (like myself) are continuing playing and supporting, but not as active here. Heck, I still have to get Black Fire Pass and Witches Song. I used to pre-order everything, but my need is not there as much as it once was. Part of that could be due to some personal stuff, other parts are just my groups are so well founded, we just don't need more cards, more dwarf stuff, and no one is interested in being a Witch. So there you have it. I'll get them by the end of the year, but it's not nearly as pressing as the next Chaos supplement will be. Recently, I have noticed both GW and FFG have retracted the amount of announcements they have for their stuff. I can understand why some companies are going this way. Pre-info gives us a lot of time to dissect the product and decide if we hate it or love it. If the fans, on their forum all hate it, it may turn off other customers who might have really liked it, but follow along hating something just because 5 guys hate it and repeatedly bash it. Strike to Stun and RPG.net are great examples of this type of useless internet bandwagoning, especially when it comes to 3e. However, in the digital age, consumers get into products then drop products so fast it is insane. Constant media attention, constant updates, constant "support" is what the public demands. It also is a base for customers to say a company doesn't care about customers or to simply start saying something is dead because their attention span is moving too fast. It's not a lack of support at all. Back in the day, before the digital revolution, companies told their fans nothing. They created absolutely no errata, indexes or FAQ's or anything like that. They just put stuff out there and you bought it or you didn't. Early White Wolf barely released anything, yet every august I went to my shop and found the new core book. Companies due this crap now to keep us interested. So I find it curious when companies as big as FFG and GW don't support things as well. They may be short staffed yes, but I also believe all they would have to do is offer one warhammer player their stuff at cost or free and to get it a week ahead of time, and I am sure they would be willing to post indexes, errata, FAQ, etc. for free. I don't know why companies don't use its more ravid supporters (us) and give us swag as payment. It would have to cut overhead. But I'm not naming any names of who might be interested in something like that, *whistles as I walk away.* Happy gaming, Commoner
  15. Well, this is funny. I remember creating a thread about this topic last August, right after the rules light hardback deal was announced. I sited the biggest problem of the guide/vault is player confusion and shop owner confusion to get into the RPG. I was told I was crazy for it back then, lol! That's just funny to me. The other thing about those guides/vaults is Warhammer 3e for almost the entire year last year was a high ranking product on the charts (I believe it was always at least in the top 10, if not the top 5). However, it had problems in the fourth quarter. Which, I think, was largely due to a delay of the guides and vaults hitting stores and those books themselves. As a player who had everything, I had no reason to buy any of them, except the creature guide/vault. To this day, I have only bought the creature vault as I don't use that many monsters in my games, a 60 dollar monster manual wasn't worth it to me. I honestly don't think ffg meant it to be predatory (the guides/vaults) it just seems that way. We can argue all day which is true or not, but having met many of them, I just don't think that is their MO. In my opinion, FFG should have waited until the ruinous power cycle was completed, then combined all the previous material and put those out as a series of vaults and guides. However, if they did go that route, they would have to kill the core box...which I still believe, competing with it is a big, big mistake. All the careers from all the expansions that match each group and all the action cards various supplements added for those types go into the box. I also largely disagree with the assumption that all the boxes and expansions are in anyway predatory. I think the product was intended to get gamers who wanted to play without components into the game. Honestly, you can play the entire game with just the core box. I mean, winds of magic, signs of faith, and omens of war are great and all, but you don't really need a spell for every order or faith. As a matter of a fact, the core box covers, for the most part, most of the magical effects players want. You get 60 spells in the core. The beauty of what fantasy flight games has done, even for a consumer, is generate great reasons for us to buy all the warhammer products. It isn't to steal your money or to hunt your wallet, it's simply, they wanted to give us such great products that every supplement is worth its money to purchase. They've even stretched that into modules. You may run the module once, but you have a number of components to add to your game, so you get your value out of it. So saying the game is incomplete without all those supplements added is way, way off the point. It is also ludicrous saying that big company games like DND have a lower buy in. That is simply not true. It does if you have dice, minis, and everything else. Also, every game has dozens onto dozens of source books and supplements and additional material. Smaller companies, like indie game publishers, have lower volume of sales so they only really get 1-2 books for the games entire life. Yes Sorcerer or Spirit of the century is one game, but those games also have very limited scope and are not nearly as broad as warhammer setting or give as many options for play. Games like DND also do not give you setting on top of the core rules. You have to buy a setting and make up one yourself. The core rulebook for 4e, is just that, rules. Warhammer has a double duty of creating the diverse cultures and races established by warhammer and the rules system itself. So we get careers such as Trollslayer, which is really just a nitch career, instead of knight because they are important to its genre. DND core manuals do not have to make room for slayers in their core simply because it doesn't have to "waste" time with world creation. However, if you start looking into "buying into" a world, there are a stack of supplements a mile high you have to purchase as well. The price point difference is only an illusion and how much you as a consumer want to buy. Are FFG predators of your wallet simply because they make every one of their products, including warhammer, products you want to buy while other game companies simply fail to make all their supplements worth having?
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