I want to run a DH game. This is because i don't have enough players to make RT work and i don't want to run DW first (due to the added complexity). I'd love to own all the DH books as i'm working to collect all of them for each game, but I don't want to wait until then to run it. I figured BC might fill some holes.

what do you mean by a proper challenge?

Dok Martin said: "Is Black Crusade a substitude for Disciples?" Definitely not! Disciples is a book about Chaos cults, Heresy, Heretek, Xeno conspiracies, hidden machinations within the Imperium and other great story ideas for the Calixis Sector, and in my humble opinion one of the very best supplements ever released. If you want to run a DH game, not buying DotDG would be a shame. well, if i could afford all the books I would buy them. BUt until then i need to make do with what i have. After all i can create my chaos cults.

At the moment I don't own any of the DH supplements and I'm hoping I won't need so many of them.

Jackal_Strain said: BC and DotDG contains vastly different things. BC details the Screaming Vortex and gives a general introduction to the rest of the setting while DotDG contains information on various heretical, xeno, and daemonic/chaotic cults/threats within the Calixis sector. I'd say that DotDG is a valuable tome for both DH and BC games. So the differences are based solely on the location? That shouldn't be an issue. I'm referring to mechanical issues. If I want to use, for example , the Dark Eldar, for an ORdos Xenos game then what would be the problem using the stats from BC?

Jackal_Strain said: . Do want to run BC or DH or do you want to use BC as a sourcebook for DH? If possible yes. It would seem, on the face of it, rather redundant to otherwise have to buy books like DotDG.

Jackal_Strain said: They are fundamentally different and too numerous to list here, so your best bet is to read the books for yourself and decide what to use. I suppose what i specifically mean is what are the differences in terms of scale and what the abilities do. I don't really see how or why the sorcery rules from BC would be incompatible with DH. I know that the latter is an older design from a different company, but all the games, to varying degrees, are based around the same mechanics. Or do you mean that, for instance, psyker power X from DH is fundamentally different to that in BC.I have only just brought DH, I have been collecting the 40k games for the best part of the last 6 months. When I get the chance I will certainly run them (that's after all the point). But i have only just got around to buying DH itself. I have BC.

I don't really understand what the differences are.

That's a little disappointing. I was hoping the chaos sorcery, demons and stuff I could use/create with BC i could use as adversaries in DH.

I asked this on the Dark Heresy forum and to my surprise the answer seems to be noone, so I'll try here. Does anyone use BC as a chaos sourcebook for Dark Heresy? If so does it replace all the stuff from books like Disciples of the Dark Gods, etc?

wow, noone uses BC for Dark Heresy? That really surprises me.

I don't know how compatible the rules sets are as I gather there are some differences, but does anyone get any use out of Black Crusade as a Chaos sourcebook for DH. Is it better than the stuff in Disciples etc?

This game reminds me, or imparts a feel, very much of sword and sorcery, particularly in the vein of Conan, where the gods there were not particularly shiny and lovely and magic was the tool of dark forces. Anyone else agree?

FFG missed a trick with Into the Storm. They should have put Eldar instead of Ork. I have no problem with providing rules, eventually, for playing Orks. But as a career path for RT it just doesn't work. Orks are just not disposed to working with anyone else whereas there is more precedent for the Eldar. Also the renegade Eldar in the Koronus Expanse are pretty much Dark Eldar in everything but name, according to the description in the book. The Expanse seems perfectly placed to include them.

What is it that needed fixing?

nethru said: Does the release copy have fixes from the GenCon version or same book basically? fixes?

So dark and terrible. In my hands. I have it! May the ruinous gods bless my ascension! (and Infinity Games!)

Grimslock Shourafein said: Hi all, Handbook and GM kit available and in stock here : www.iguk.co.uk also available on their ebay store : Infinity Games UK. Very good online shop with many RPGs in stock from the UK. Enjoy Grims They were very good for my order of Mark of Xenos. I ordered black crusade from them this morning via special delivery. It's been shipped so touch wood it shoudl arrive before 1pm tomorrow for a date with the screaming vortex. I hope the good service i had before will be repeated, but i get very antsy ordering anything online from anyone because i'm massivly impatient. But the one time before i've used them was excellent service. The local shops won't be getting their copies in till friday.

Jenkins said: I don't think players can use most items that add a die (or dice) to the dice pool to help other players. "Most Common Items allow a player to spend the item in order to add the yellow die to *his* dice pool..." Bold *his* for point of reference. That is rules laywering, but it is different than using *the* dice pool. That same wording applies to unique items. What is not clear is when an investigator's special ability can be used to manipulate the dice rolls. We play that when investigator's are in the same adventure, they can assist and apply their ability. Jenkins said: What is not clear is when an investigator's special ability can be used to manipulate the dice rolls. We play that when investigator's are in the same adventure, they can assist and apply their ability. I don't think that's right. Investigator text makes it clear when it can be used to help and who. For example some can heal other investigators, so the precedent is there as to explicit rules. Most of the time it's the active player, however the rules are not clear in places. Unfortunately.

Jenkins said: What is not clear is when an investigator's special ability can be used to manipulate the dice rolls. We play that when investigator's are in the same adventure, they can assist and apply their ability. I don't think that's right. Investigator text makes it clear when it can be used to help and who. For example some can heal other investigators, so the precedent is there as to explicit rules. Most of the time it's the active player, however the rules are not clear in places. Unfortunately.

Walk said: I don't think this should apply with Mythos cards, my reasoning being the following: in addition to the extreme power of the ability, in two-player and frou-player games, the clock will always strike midnight on the same person's turn. Thus, the usefulness of Kat'e ability will vary massively based on where she stands in the turn order. And that just seems ridiculous. If you discount Mythos card monster appearance, she's still pretty well balanced. Her terror-negating ability is very useful, and bit about monsters still applies to adventures she wins that spawn monsters as part of success (of which there are a fair number). Admittedly, this isn't exactly borne out by the rules, and I've never been the type to go out on a limb in the interest of balance, but in this case, it's just too much. I really enjoy this game, but the number of unclear rules and effects is really quite astounding. Surely tbe bit about monsters is fairly clear with regards to solo play: monsters will not appear after setup. From the start of the first turn the player is guaranteed never to see one because it will never not be her turn when such trigger points occur. This is massively broken. It is fairly evident, now, that playtesting was not adequate on this game. I am starting to feel downhearted. solo playability was an important consideration to my choice of purchase and the designers clearly didn't take that into account when playtesting. As to FFG's priorities or those fo the developers in having license to issue official errata it may be a long time before this game is rendered playable.

RuneKnight3 said: **** FOR THE **** GOD! Grow up. That is poor taste.

Lucifer216 said: Judging by the Esdevium Games website, we're due to get Black Crusade and the GM kit in the UK from Tuesday. PRAISE THE DARK GODS! I've noticed.Just in time to compete with Gears of War 3

2 health might not be great but 6 sanity is hardly a big deal.

Surely this character is overpowered. In solo play she's broken with those abilities.