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worldeater888

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  1. worldeater888 said: What I really see in the Horde Rules is a way to represent large groups of weak opponents attacking in mass so that A) it plays fast and B) they present a potential threat but not an overwhelming one. Right now with the RAW one lone trooper with Guard Issue Flack (Armor 4 All) and a 4 Toughness could fight off 10,000 cultists armed with improvised weapons. They would be no threat because they COULD NOT DAMAGE HIM AT ALL. Same for creatures with natural weapons and Strength in the 20's, the max damage is 12 primitive and it would take 13 to cause a wound. Oh, and the RAW in Deathwatch those same 10,000 cultists would get one attack roll per turn with no modifiers and when they hit it would dish out 3d10+2 damage.
  2. Friend of the Dork said: Sister Cat said: Friend of the Dork said: Hmm maybe I just want a slightly more realistic game. I don't really see my acolytes taking on hundreds of enemies and winning easily. I would think than 60 men armed with Autoguns may well be more dangerous to a party of 4-5 than a single dangerous monster (an incarnate demon would be something else). And AFAIK mobs/hordes are not immune to suppression, are they? One autogun and the whole mass could be pinned down. Now if those 60 men are Fearless fanatics that would change things alot, and would be VERY dangerous. If the horde is armed with primitive melee weapons, or maybe with nothing with bare fists, they become less dangerous, but if fanatical they should be able to take down a group of acolytes eventually unless they are all killed. Now this I agree with completely. But a Magnitude 60 horde by RAW, IIRC, would be getting 6 ranged attacks per turn at (assume they only have Stub Revolvers, so no SA or FA) 7d10+3 Damage (that's 41-42 damage on average) per hit. That is more than enough to vaporize an entire party of very experienced, very well equipped acolytes in the first round, assuming lucky rolls to hit (remember they can't be dodged). If even only half hit, that is half of an average party of acolytes dead in round one. Even If the remaining members can get to cover before the horde's 2nd round of attacks, that kind of damage will chew through most cover in no time. So yes, I believe such a horde should be able to take down a well-equipped team in time. But I don't believe they should be doing more damage than a Melta-Bomb to each player in a single round, when they are relatively harmless (to the players) on their own. That's all. 7d10+3? That sounds a tad too much, yes. 3d10+3 would be adequate IMO for such attacks. 60 people should be dangerous, but not so much more than a Lascannon battery. Wait how do even Space Marines surivive that? AFAIK they have something like 16-20 damage reduction, so a hit will seriously damage a SM and possibly cause critical damage (not sure how many wounds they have). 7d10+3 might be appropriate for a horde of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers with Hot-Shot Hellguns... Friend of the Dork said: Sister Cat said: 7d10+3? That sounds a tad too much, yes. 3d10+3 would be adequate IMO for such attacks. 60 people should be dangerous, but not so much more than a Lascannon battery. Wait how do even Space Marines surivive that? AFAIK they have something like 16-20 damage reduction, so a hit will seriously damage a SM and possibly cause critical damage (not sure how many wounds they have). 7d10+3 might be appropriate for a horde of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers with Hot-Shot Hellguns... BTW, the RAW in Deathwatch have a cap of +2d10 for Magnitude; hordes over 29 don't get the additional dice. I suspect that the goal is to have damage in the 20-30 point range for basic opponents fighting space marines. In contrast most basic opponents in DH will dish out in the range of 5-15 points per attack. What I really see in the Horde Rules is a way to represent large groups of weak opponents attacking in mass so that A) it plays fast and B) they present a potential threat but not an overwhelming one. Right now with the RAW one lone trooper with Guard Issue Flack (Armor 4 All) and a 4 Toughness could fight off 10,000 cultists armed with improvised weapons. They would be no threat because they COULD NOT DAMAGE HIM AT ALL. Same for creatures with natural weapons and Strength in the 20's, the max damage is 12 primitive and it would take 13 to cause a wound. Also I would probability not use the horde rules for opponents that would be a real threat if fought one at a time. The only thing I could see using hordes of tough opponents for would be to do something that is secondary to the main plot. Like a running fight for just a few rounds to get through an group of armed guards or trying to get the players to change tactics from a frontal attack to an enemy strongpoint and look for a sneaker way to get things done.
  3. Well, I had another opportunity to playtest this last night and I introduced a few rule changes to the Hordes Attacking, basically as follows; 1) Removed the additional damage caused by magnitude 2) Added 1 attack for each 10 points of magnitude for both melee and shooting 3) Added a “Dumb Luck” rule - any attack from a Horde that rolls 01 to 05 bypasses armor All other rules stayed the same. The scenario was that my 5 acolytes were blamed for releasing a giant spider into the underhive and were surrounded and attacked by am angry lynch mob of 50 townspeople armed with stub pistols and primitive hand weapons. The Acolytes are all Rank 5 with an average armor of 4 and they are tooled up for dishing out damage. I am only going to outline the Horde attacks to keep it brief. (BTW, I am sitting at my desk, typing this from memory so my numbers may be a bit off) Round one – “there they are” Shooting attack by a 50 Magnitude Horde 1 attack + 5 for Magnitude = 6 attacks to each Acolyte for a total of 30 attacks 20 WS +10 for short range, average was 2 hits per acolyte and 3 of the five received 1-2 wounds after reductions for armor and toughness. I had one “dumb luck” hit that rolled a 7 damage bypassing armor for 4 wounds. Two of the Acolytes retured fire, one with a Flamer and the other with twin bolt pistols, the remaining three prepared for melee. The two that fired ranged weapons caused an 11 point reduction in Magnitude. Round two – “Get Stuck in” Melee attacks by a 39 Magnitude Horde 1 attack + 3 for Magnitude = 4 attacks to each Acolyte for a total of 20 attacks 20 WS / BS +10 for charging, ½ are using pistols and ½ are attacking with melee weapons. 4 attacks with the pistols hit with only 1 hit causing 2 points of damage past armor and Toughness to one Acolyte. 3 of the melee weapon’s hit, 2 for no damage and 1 rolled “dumb luck” bypassing the armor for a total of 5 wounds. The acolytes fought back causing a staggering 19 point reduction in the magnitude. The mob decides it has had enough and breaks, fleeing, loosing another 12 points to the acolytes in the process. In the end every acolyte had received at least one wound but no one was more that lightly wounded. All in all a much more satisfying encounter than the original rules would have provided. Just to compare, the original rules would be; three attacks to each acolyte in the first round with any hits causing 3D10 damage. One attack each in the melee round with any that hit causing 3d10 damage (FYI with a 20 WS that averages to one hit every 5 rounds). This makes shooting attacks by hordes DEADLY and leaves melee underpowered and really inconsistent. A few other changes that I was thinking about are putting a cap in of +5 or +4 attacks for magnitude bonuses and adding the outnumbered modifiers back in to increase the threat of melee attacks from creatures. For my next trial I think I will throw a 100 Magnitude (individually very weak) spider horde controlled by a rogue psyker at them and see how it goes.
  4. Has anyone tried the Horde rules from Deathwatch in a Dark Heresy game? Any thoughts on how well it adapts? I set my players against a 40 magnitude giant rat horde to try out the rules. I thought it all worked pretty well except the rules for damage from hordes. The horde only managed to hit one acolyte once before it broke. The problem I have is that the one hit it dealt out 18 damage (3d10+2), I think that’s too much for one lucky shot. I am thinking about changing the extra damage die for magnitude to extra attacks based on magnitude. More chances to hit and each hit deals out a reasonable amount of damage. I was also thinking about adding a "dumb luck" rule that lets the attack either bypass armor on a damage roll of 10 or that duplicates righteous fury so that there is still a real threat from the horde.
  5. I found this in an earler post. Is this the actual rule for Flamers VS Hordes that is printed in the rulebook or is it just a house rule? If it is not correct could someone that has the book please post the correct rule? Flamers - Flame Weapons used on a horde will hit it a number of times equal to one-quarter of the weapon's range (rounding up) plus 1d5 (so a range 10 flame weapon will hit a horde 1d5+3 times). Thanks
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