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Elric91

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  1. The difficulty of the base game depends on which ancient one is selected. Some of the ancient ones, such as Yig, are definately hard to beat (short doom track, cultists killed add doom tokens, and curses everyone at the start of the encounter), but other ancient ones can be a pushover. Typically what happens to new players is they pick the most well known ancient ones, such as Cthulhu or Nyarlathotep, and those ancient ones are pushovers with little or no chance of losing for most groups. And when they play several times with easy ancient ones, they tend to be disappointed and feel the game is too easy. Try fighting ancient ones such as Yig, Azathoth, Shub-Niggurath, and Yog-Sothoth, they are towards the difficult end of the scale and are very difficult to beat. With BSG, by nature there is only one enemy, the cylons, so naturally when they make the cylons hard to beat, the game is going to be hard every time. But thats not the case with AH, there are 8 ancient ones in the base set, the 6 listed above and 2 others, so they put "difficulty levels" so to speak, some are easy, some are on the low end of intermediate, some are on the high end of intermediate, and some are just plain hard. If you are dealing out an ancient one randomly, there is a good chance (at least 50%) you will get one from the easy or low end of intermediate ranges several times in a row, making the game seem easy. It really depends on your group. If you want it to be easy, then yes, it can be easy. Do you prefer hard? No problem, use one of the hard ancient ones. Better yet, download one of the free heralds on the AH website under the "heralds and investigators" column in the support tab, and you will lose so many times it will make your head spin. (Heralds are servants of the ancient one that help pave the way for their return, and they modify the game according to the special rules found on their cards.) AH is designed to be flexible, according to whatever a group wants. Some people like it easy, they like to buy stuff at stores and equip their investigators without worrying about being eaten, so there are things in place for them to make it easier. And there are definately no shortage of advanced options to make it harder for advanced players who like to be challenged, especially in many of the expansions that were introduced. (Letting players select their investigators is one way to make it easier, while dealing out random investigators definately makes it harder.) One piece of advice though, make sure you read the rulebook through very carefully the first time you read it, because it has several rules that can be very easy to miss, such as the rule that says combat ends your movement immediately, and the rule that says any monsters that bump into you in the mythos phase are not immediately fought, they are resolved during the following movement phase since combat only happens during the movement phase. (yes, i missed those rules when i first played). They are not found in the combat section, which is why i missed them, they are in the movement section, and if somebody (like me) just skims the rules in their exitement to play, then missing these rules and several others like it can definately have an impact on the game, making the game much easier than it was intended. But, well, cheating would always have this effect on a game, wouldn't it?
  2. I played black goat through twice and never once drew a single cult membership card or a single corruption card. We did the standard way of mixing the new stuff in with the old decks, and aside from an item or two and a few location cards, nothing much new was seen. If you want to get a feel for BG then i would recommend just starting everyone out with a cult membership card, like they had just infiltrated the cults inner circle. The other way is to play with the black goat of the woods as your herald, but thats going to make things crazy and hard very fast, especially for the new guy, so i would recommend avoiding that. A simple modification at start up should get some good interaction with the black goat components without getting crazy on the new guy, and should add a bit of spice for you vets. Otherwise, if you just mix in the new cards with the old ones, you run a solid chance of feeling like you are not really playing the expansion at all, just drawing a few new items and a few new location cards.
  3. I agree, you are probably going to get several biased opinions on both forum boards. Arkham Horror fans will advocate Arkham Horror, and Galactica fans will more than likely do the same. Usually, a good indicator of the quality of a game, its replay value, and if one is more popular than the other is to look and see how many expansions there are. But the problem here is battlestar galactica is still in its infancy, so naturally it doesnt have as many expansions as a game that has been around for years, such as arkham horror. Both are co-op games. Galactica has a "hidden cylon working against the players" possibility, adding some pretty nifty suspense moments, but Arkham Horror is very bizzarre and eerie by nature, being based on the works of H.P. Lovecraft. I personally love eerie and bizzare, like the time my investigator found a carefully preserved brain floating in its own embriotic fluids, wired into a high tech alien artifact crafted by a race calling themselves the Mi-Go. The brain in a box basically allowed my investigator to swap places with monsters that were on the board, which is very very useful. (this item came from the dunwich expansion if memory serves, but i was just giving an example) I guess it comes down to which Genre do you prefer? Sci-fi or Horror? Heck, buy one now and the other later when you get the cash, you could certainly do worse.
  4. spirit said: Once monsters are in the outskirts that's it they're there untill the outskirts is full '10 monster' at which point you raise the terror level and the monsters go back into the cup. They don't move or have any other effect on the game than that. Just a minor rules point, but the outskirts cannot hold 10 monsters. The maximum number of monsters in the outskirts is linked to the number of investigators : Number of Players Maximum Monsters in Outskirts 1 7 2 6 3 5 4 4 5 3 6 2 7 1 8 0 So, in the case of a 8 player game, there wouldn't even be an outskirts, it would go straight to terror level! From a logics point of view, it dont make since why adding an investigator would make townsfolk more terrified of monsters( easier to have the terror raise) instead of making them feel more secure and lowering the chance of having the terror level increase, but i guess its a rules balance issue, same as monsters in the outskirts not wandering back into town. Although, to be honest, that sounds like it would make a fun house rule to have monsters wander in from the outskirts.
  5. Cool, thanks Zeb. I think the nature of debates can get heated, and i cannot speak for everyone involved, but i was never really angry or upset in the least. From my perspective, i was never really disagreeing with coltsfan or thorgrim when they quoted the rules. The rulebook states in black and white that clues are only picked up in phase 2 and phase 5, whether i agree with it or not. From the start i used words like "i think" or "in my opinion", and the only thing i was trying to dissect was kevins intent based on that original FaQ, as i felt kevin may have been adding a mini move phase in terms of monster combat when a card moves you, and i felt if it was his intent then that mini move phase might apply to clues. Im happy that this discussion has accomplished something here. Since kevin has retracted that standing, i must now change my opinion and say if we do not allow monster combat from a card movement, then we should not allow clue pick ups, as thats only fair. My opinion, if kevin does not allow monster combat in phase 3 from a card base move, then he will not allow clue pick ups either, although i will still post his reply when it comes in. I still like the idea of clue pick ups from a card based move in phase 3 to be honest, so when i play i will probably just house rule it and play that way anyhow, and i am hoping kevin will allow clue pick ups in any phase so we can have it as an official rule.
  6. Avi_dreader said: You can still close gates pretty fast with that and find gate. One per turn. The other balancing factor is the sanity cost of the spell. Find gate costs 1 point of sanity, and unless you have a way to get it back thats going to limit gate closing to available sanity, and not all investigators have tons of sanity for multiple find gate spells. The only way this would become really broken is with daisy walker, who can get this combo pretty easily. All she has to do is grab find gate on the first turn with that tome of hers, then all she needs to do is bash a few monsters and close one gate, then run up to the location and do a turn in. Since daisy walkers ability always reduces the sanity cost of a spell by one, she pretty much has unlimited gate closure ability as long as monsters dont get in her way, she can close gates one after another, turn after turn, without stopping. When this occurs to kevin as well, it is bound to lend its weight to the possibility that he will errata this to "loss of movement phase" .
  7. GrandMarquis said: Well, this got a lot more hostile than I expected, but thanks to those actually trying to help. But since the can of dholes is open, I'd like to say that dealing with monsters occurs (or at least starts) during movement. It's my understanding that combat is what ends your movement, not the other way around, whereas picking up clues happens after movement (and combat) ends. A minor distinction, but considering the use of the phrase "end-of-movement actions," I felt it should be said. At any rate, I think I'll just put it to a vote with my group: either deal with monsters AND pick up clue tokens (in that order, as normal) or neither. Either way, you go through any gates there since that happens in phase 3 anyway. I'll keep an eye out for any official ruling, though. I dont really think any of us got really hostile. I admit things got a little heated, but when you boil down to the brass tacks, thor and coltsfan are correct, if you strictly adhere to the letter of the rules, then clue tokens would not be picked up. My main arguement all along was kevins intent versus rules mummification, as if we stricly adhere to the rules at all times we would be forced to play the wrong way with a card that we know to be a typo, such as the black cave card or the livre d'ivon, because "thats what the rules say", I thought kevins intent was to give us a mini movement phase and that we would resolve it that way. Now that coltsfan has pointed out Kevins intent, i somewhat retract my earlier views, since kevin didnt want players to breeze through portals. But if that intent was to control portals because he wanted a portal guardian, why would we have to interact with a monster if there is not a portal? The FaQ also clearly stats that even if there is just a monster, and no portal, it must be fought/evaded before drawing a location card, so i begin to wonder if kevin even thinks about these things before changing his mind back and fourth on a whim. I still think a rule should apply to everything, though my opinion is not supported by any rules. In my opinion if a movement inducing card makes us interact with a monster, then we should be able to interact with other tokens there as well, after all its only fair. I am still lobbying to kevin to get this changed into an official ruling, but until then i say if you want to adhere to the rules, leave clue tokens on the board, if you want to pick up clue tokens, just make a house rule and do whatever you have fun with. I will post kevins reply if it ever comes in, but from coltsfan's experiences it sounds like kevin is the type of person that ignores his email for months on end, so it may take awile. And If you think this discussion was hostile, then you obviously have not seen some of the other discussion threads that i have.
  8. Dam said: Elric91 said: As far as i can tell, Coltsfan, yes, if a player has an encounter at a location, and that card moves him to another location, that player can pick up clue tokens in that new location. And here is my line of thinking, this is a direct quote from the official FAQ : Arkham Encounters Q: If a location card tells an investigator that he may move to another location and have an encounter there, what happens if the location has a monster and/or gate on it? A: First, the investigator must successfully evade or fight any monsters at the location. If successful, the investigator has a normal Arkham Encounters Phase at the new location, following either the “Gate” or “No Gate” instructions on pages 8-9 of the rulebook. Except, this part was over-ruled by Kevin in the answers thread over on the old forums IIRC. That if you get moved to another location, you DON'T fight the monster. *does a little digging* "Monsters and movement as a result of an encounter (01/02/07) When moved to another location by an encounter, you don't have to fight/evade monsters in either location. At least, not immediately. Combat as a result of such movement only occurs during the movement phase. During the encounter phase, you only have to worry about monsters popping up to attack you as a result of an encounter. " Hmm, if thats the case players definately would not be able to pick up clue tokens, my only issue with it was based on the hypothetical intent of a combat rule. Of course that could be the original ruling coltsfan mentioned, before kevin changed it. Just how many times has this rule changed? are you sure this is the most recent ruling dam? the kingsport rulebook still says players have to fight right away.
  9. The gate seal with clue tokens specifically says take the token from the UNUSED pile of signs, not the ancient one. I am not saying we are going to go around breaking the intent of the game for personal gain. for that matter there are posted "house rules" on the official site as a download, so if i wanted to end this discussion id tell the first poster to simply make a house rule stating one way or the other, and you are perfectly official, unless you want to say the game designer is cheating by making a house rule that gates do not automatically suck players through, and that they can choose not to go inside. You can make a house rule about anything you want actually, if its fun to your group, i could rule each OW has 4 spaces instead of 2, and as long as i posted it that i was changing the rules to a house rule, its not cheating. Im following a rule that says i can ignore rules and make house rules heh, i just would not qualify for tournements or anything. But im heading off track here, the point is im not trying to butcher the rules by using clue tokens to remove doom tracks on a gate seal, i am trying to understand why kevin made that rule. I have sent Kevin a question asking the intent behind the ruling so i can play it the way kevin had intended it to be played, not based on how he may have worded it before something unintended was brought to him. Its like the livre d'ivon in kingsport, it says to discard to get the check, but the intent is probably meant to be exaust. Well, we might be cheating if we dont discard it after the first try, because it is more powerful than many of the other tomes, perhaps the second discard was an accident because they were so used to putting that there? Well, now we have another intent issue, the rules clearly say discard the tome then roll, the intent is probably to exaust. So if someone goes with exaust, is he cheating? well, i could use every last one of these same arguements against you, and you could use mine against me, he techincally is cheating, because he is not following the rules and there is no errata yet on it, yet if the intent was exaust and not discard then isnt it better to follow the intent? Kevins intent may have been 'i think ill just extend the end of movement rule of phase 2 into phase 3 to include this crazy card based movement issue, i have way too much work on my mind to deal with that" That is every bit as much of a possibility as any other possibility you can think up. And if that was the intent, we would do the end of movement rule found in phase 2 in its whole, not picking and choosing certain parts based on what we think sounds good. And what is the end of movement rule? what do we do when we finish moving? the end of movement rule in phase 2 says we do 2 things when we finish moving, we may immediately pick up clues and we must fight or evade monsters. Thats why i stated right off the bat it was my opinion, and that i was trying to see the intent behind a rule, so we could have something official. I personally play the livre d'ivon, and any other cards i believe to be a mistake the way i believe the intent was, not some literal mummified body of rules where i cannot think for myself. I try and see if there was an intent behind a rule. I have sent the question on to Kevin, and the automated reply i got said wait 7 - 14 days, i will post the reply word for word either way, and if i am wrong i will admit it.
  10. thorgrim said: You'd think that if that was what he meant, his answer would have stated it, instead of stating only that you fight/evade, then have a normal Encounter Phase at that Location. He is generally quite concise on such things. Wow lol, you think Kevin is concise? How could he possibly have missed the issue on the patrol wagon if he was consise? A blind man should have seen that coming. Or how about lily chen's toggle ability making her immune to yig? I think its totally stupid to send a player to a location that makes them fight monsters there, and in the same space tell them that they cant take clues. Picking up clue tokens at the end of the mythos phase makes even less sense than this arguement,the player spend no time invesigating to get said clue, so why in the world did kevin put it in the rules? But it is in the rules, so its leagal. Well, in any case, i qualified at the very top post that it was my opinion, and i am going to stick with it even if i am cheating, because if i get a card that says move someplace, i am going to move there and interact with every token on the board in that location or none at all. I think Kevin was saying at the end of a movement from a card i have to resolve all the end of movement clarifications that apply from the movement phase, that may not be the literal of what he said, but until i see it was not the intended spirit of the rule change, i will not agree that anyone who does this is cheating. To the original poster of this question : we have all qualified our posts as opinions and i will send in a rules call for kevin to answer for us. To coltsfan and thor, it was not my intent to make anyone mad, and i was just tryin to monitor the boards and help out. If i sound arguementative i apologize, i love debates.
  11. And also, let me ask you, why did Kevin change his mind? it could be that he thought since the card says you are moving, and technically movement ended at a monster, that the phase 2 condition applied to you. Monster tokens and clue tokens are both tokens on a board, and both say ending movement there causes interaction with them. Why would a card that moves you to a location on a board, lets say there is both a hound of tinalados token and a clue token there, why would a card that tells you to move there cause you to interact with one and not the other? I think there is a possibility Kevin would agree with me.
  12. First, monsters tokens on the board are ever only fought in phase 2. Period. The only time we fight in phase 3 or 4 is if a card tells us to do so. if you have different information, please show me a page number. Your arguement about movement points and items makes no sense. Things like tomes and motorcycles clearly say they must be used in the movement phase, and if there is any item that grants movement points in any phase ( i cant think of any, most clearly say : Movement on them), but if there is, its also clear that the only things we can do in phase 3 are : 1) Draw a card OR 2) Get drawn through a gate. We cannot move, we cannot go anywhere, those are not part of the listed actions allowed for phase 3. So, since most movement point items are clearly marked movement phase only, if there is one or two that says any phase, then i would argue they are fair game in any phase. FaQ are not intended to make an added rule, but to clarify existing rules, and the rulebook clearly states, just as clearly as the clue token rule you just quoted, that monsters are only dealt with in phase 2. Not phase 3, not phase 4, not phase 5. None of his questions added a rule that contradicted an existing one, he merely filled in places that were confusing. You say : Kevin is adding a rule that says if you get a card that you relocate to somplace else, any monsters must be fought. Ok, that is a possibility. I say : Kevin is merely extending the phase 2 end of movement conditions to phase 3, stating if a player moves for any reason in phase 3 he is subject to all the end of movement conditions from phase 2. I am not saying we add retainers because of a slider move card, i am saying he is extending the end of movement conditions found in phase 2 to phase 3. So, in my opinion, and i am allowed my opinion, he was not trying to contradict his own game rules, he was trying to clear up a question on a movement based card : does it count as movement ending conditions for all intents and purposes, or am i teleported to the location? I do realize that there is more than one way to interpret what he said, and as long as you admit it as well, we can agree to different interpretations. In my mind, why in the world would kevin make us backtrack to phase 2 and resolve a phase 2 action before resolving a phase 3 card draw? that makes no sense. And that, to me, if we look at it in context with all the other question and answer format entries, none of them added rule x when rule y clearly said rule x was illegal. You are suggesting he added something into a FaQ that was intended to ramp up the difficulty of the game, and i simply do not agree. That is not the way i have seen him work. He adds options such as heralds and scenarios, and in a FaQ he would not add something that went against the rules, in order to make it harder. That simply is not the place for that. I think he was trying to clarify the card, and tell us it said : If a card says move to someplace else, you move as if you were moving during the movement phase to that new location, and of course you fight/evade monsters that are there, and then are drawn through the gate. Thats my interpretation, and i think it matches the context of the book better than yours, and of course if i am moving as if i am moving during the movement phase, that includes clue tokens.
  13. As far as i can tell, Coltsfan, yes, if a player has an encounter at a location, and that card moves him to another location, that player can pick up clue tokens in that new location. And here is my line of thinking, this is a direct quote from the official FAQ : Arkham Encounters Q: If a location card tells an investigator that he may move to another location and have an encounter there, what happens if the location has a monster and/or gate on it? A: First, the investigator must successfully evade or fight any monsters at the location. If successful, the investigator has a normal Arkham Encounters Phase at the new location, following either the “Gate” or “No Gate” instructions on pages 8-9 of the rulebook. Now, as per the rulebook, monsters are only evaded or fought during MOVEMENT PHASE. The rules are very clear on this, period. No discussion. So, if Kevin Wilson (or whoever wrote the FAQ) tells us that if a card in one location sends us to a different location with a monster on it, and this counts as ending our move on the second location in terms of monsters, then we have to be consistent and say it counts as ending our movement there in terms of picking up clue tokens. Otherwise how would you explain the logic of the question in the FAQ? The only way to initiate combat in the arkham encounters phase is with a card that says a monster appears, and this is clearly not what happened. We were simply sent to another location, and that should not have triggered a combat, we should have only had to deal with the monster during our next move phase, and since in the above example there was a gate, we should be drawn through the gate with no monster encounter. Unless, of course, my interpretation of the FAQ is correct and a card moving you counts as moving during the movement phase.
  14. Edit : For clarity, since i think Coltsfan posted one while i was in the middle of typing and did not see my post, I will move it.
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