gareth_lazelle
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Posts posted by gareth_lazelle
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For sure - my point was just that runaway successes often don't often occur because players don't have the incentive to keep rolling them up because of limited benefits and potential costs.
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4 hours ago, Void Crane said:. A rule of thumb might be that if people bad mouth your samurai after the fact for the things you did, then it's worth loosing honor over. "Oh Invisible-san helped capture Toshi Ranbo alright, but did you hear he murdered Defender-san by stabbing him in the back of the neck? I swear it is true..."
You probably meant glory here,
Though some clans might consider getting caught dishonourable (possible breach of duty for scorpion perhaps)... But that's likely offset by them losing less honour for the activity in the first place.
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Ooh,
On a related note, there is a Maho in the shadowlands book which specifically does something very like what is being discussed here - negating an attack in progress by swapping places with another character which then becomes the target,
But if memory serves (no book to hand), it explicitly changes the attacks target and it doesn't use opportunities as a mechanic to make it happen (and IIRC it's a once per scene effect, so it's very limited),
If regular opportunities where meant to do things like this it makes mobility opportunities very powerful.
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1 minute ago, JBento said:Success or failure of your roll isn't determined until AFTER you use opportunities, because that's when you trigger successes. If something happens in the meantime to make the technique unusable (such as the target moving out of range) or increases the TN higher than the successes you kept, you fail.
If that where the case then you could never trigger opportunities like critical strikes because they have success as a requirement in order for you to select them,
The TN was set before the dice where rolled,
Nowhere does it suggest that you reassess that at any point, and it's clear the game designers intended for the TN to be publicly known at the time you selected dice to keep,
I'm coming to believe that the movement thing is a red herring - you don't teleport, and no-matter how fast you can run, you don't outrun an arrow... My personal take on the range thing is that if the action was valid when you started it then it is now,
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53 minutes ago, Bazakahuna said:some problematic condictions like the aforementioned Dying, or bleeding, or even Tainted.
One note here, Tainted isn't a condition, it's a Disadvantage,
You can copy Afflicted though,
MonCalamariAgainstDrunkDriving and Tonbo Karasu reacted to this -
2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:Well - you know the roll will be a success, anyway. But yes, if the criteria is "if you succeed" then the effect can't resolve until after the success step.
That isn't how the rules are worded though,
My point was that the implication of the wording there is that success is "locked in" at that point,
We may not have determined the consequences of success yet, but fundamentally the success of your roll was determined back when you where selecting dice to keep.
QuoteWhich isn't inherently a problem; if you had a technique which says "*: at the end of your turn, the target explodes", then you buy the activation with opportunity but the trigger is still left hanging until it goes off at a later point in the scene.
I don't think that fits in with the ethos of the game - this is just my interpretation of the rules though,
I think that the way the rules, especially where die rolls are concerned, is heavily structured around the idea that if you buy some effect, then you get that effect- though quite how it will fit into the narrative may well take some work (note that some effect may be the chance of something occurring, as is the case with the elemental kata techniques discussed above),
A good example of this is how the rules around hidden TNs are presented, it is clearly emphasized that players should know what they're getting when they choose dice to keep.
In your example, the "trigger" was back when you spent the Opportunities - all that is left to resolve are the consequences of that, and work out how it fits together in the narrative,
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Just now, Avatar111 said:Basically, a simple rule that says something along the line of; no check can interrupt another check and should be rolled after the initial check's is fully resolved (unless specifically stated), would probably fix a lot of bugs.
Yeah - I'd fully support that,
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1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:forget about Heart of the Dragon.
lets say you use a bow and shoot and arrow at a target in air stance.
you use opportunity to activate one of those rank 4 effect, the target resist, then use his opportunity to raise his TN to be hit by ranged attack (as per Air opportunity usage) and now your initial strike doesn't hit?Well,
As discussed earlier, I would argue that the TN was fixed at the start of the attack (step 2, part 4), so it hits,
Actually, this is doubly important because many opportunities require success in order to use them - you may assess and resolve success at step 6 part 4, but it is clear that if you have the right number of successes at step 5 (choose kept dice) then the roll was a success,
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3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:there are rank 4 katas (one for each ring) that apply some kind of Resist check + Condition using 1 opportunity.
they lose a lot of value if you enable the opponent to resist their effects and use his own opportunities before you even have time to finish your initial strike.
so here also, I think that if a "resist" check needs to be made it should happen AFTER the initial action is fully resolved.
basically no CHECK should interrupt an action, EVER. (aside Finishing Blows in duels).Ah - Breath of the Wind Style, Disappearing World Style, etc,
That's easy to fix though - spend the opportunity to trigger "Heart of the Dragon" first, then spend the opportunity to trigger the elemental effect,
Your main attack can still fail, but I figure that's just the risk you take by trying to get a better effect,
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3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:if the TN is fixed, then "compromising" the opponent with your heart of the dragon strike so that your initial rising blade kata is made against a TN 1 (because now the opponent is compromised) wouldn't work as per the people above are saying it would; "This can be fairly important as the Strike granted by Heart of the Dragon could influence the TN of Rising Blade by Compromising the target or otherwise reducing the targets Vigilance."
Do I have an old version of the rules or something? My book lists TN 3 for rising blade? And I can't see any reduction for a compromised target under it, the Compromised Condition or Heart?
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5 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:I've seen unassisted 12+ success on r4s2
Sure,
But not all rolls benefit from bonus successes...
On a lot of rolls 12 successes is exactly as good as the two successes you needed to meet the TN,
But the 10 or so strife you likely accumulated make it a lot worse than just taking the bare minimum number of successes
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Okay, a bunch of issues I want to raise here,
Starting with:
2 hours ago, Avatar111 said:Anyway, you can play as RAW. But it doesn't change the fact that it is badly and tediously designed if you do so.
When people come on here asking questions, I think it's most productive to answer assuming that they are using the RAW unless they note otherwise. We can't just assume that they're using the same house rules that you are (or I am, or anyone else for that matter) - the answers would be incoherent.
That isn't to say that suggesting house-rules is bad, just that it isn't going to be helpful if you are assuming that they're using them when you answer questions.
QuoteIf you start to resolve the opportunities before check, the game gets ultra clunky.
<snip>
Opponent use opportunity (maybe even changing the TN, range, or strife the mirumoto)
I fundamentally disagree with this part,
Knowing the TN when choosing dice is a pretty fundamental part of the system (to the point where you are specifically rewarded if you don't have that information for some reason),
The target number was determined at Step 2 / Part 4,
My interpretation is that once it is determined it is fixed.
Strife is just the breaks, Range is more of an issue.
QuoteIf you start to resolve the opportunities before check, the game gets ultra clunky.
The game was written with using opportunities before determining the effects of the check, and accordingly doing it the other way around will likely have significant consequences to the way a whole bunch of techniques work - for example, Hawk's Precision would do precisely nothing your way, Striking as Water is significantly weaker (it wouldn't apply to the current attack), etc.
A lot of Techniques use opportunities to enhance their effects (forget kata, the invocation section is rife with this sort of thing),
These don't work your way without a lot of tweaks.
QuoteImagine the mirumoto with heart of the dragon and one of the elemental kata.
I'm a little baffled by what you mean by "elemental kata" - it can't be the "Strike as..." kata, as you don't roll to resist them (unless they cause a critical strike anyway),
It could be kata like thunderclap strike, etc - but the rolls to resist their effects happen after success, not as opportunities?
Regardless, I wonder if perhaps you're making a big deal out of something that comes up infrequently?
I do agree that "heart of the dragon" should probably resolve after the main attack - that would be much simpler to work out, but that clearly isn't RAW.
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On a slightly more mundane level, this might also apply to attacks whilst the target is asleep, unaware or otherwise unable to defend against the attack (tied up perhaps),
Ruling "no defense" is a pretty easy starting point in all of these cases - you can't dodge what you are unaware of, and that'll mean automatic critical strikes in most cases.
In some cases just assuming a kill will be fine, but I'd be hesitant to apply that to anyone alert and in combat, even if unaware of the foe sticking the knife in. I'd probably assume a kill for Minions regardless.
*Edit* you may also want to consider lowering the attack difficulty to either TN1, or in some cases no roll needed.
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I don't think they are?
They're only recommendations though (even where they are included), so you can get by on your gut,
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On 4/5/2019 at 2:22 AM, TheBlindSamurai said:Question as to violence. As written, the combat rules focus on fatigue. Things which trigger the critical strike chart have to be voluntarily selected through the use of dice. If all combat inherently can rely on the use of only normal damage, which does NOT trigger any results on the Crit Strike table, are all players then inherently playing as pacifists since the rules only say you exhaust an enemy's fatigue, the end result of which is simply being incapacitated ... but still alive ...
Are there rules I am missing as to what causes Bleeding, Injury/Serious Injury that is NOT from the Critical Strike table? Are there things that involuntarily trigger the CS table?You can kind of leave a lot of this for the player to decide,
I say that because this really depends upon the character - how severe is his or her pacifism?
Will they fight in self-defense? In the defense of others? In defense of the defenseless? Never? Will they use non-lethal weapons only?
This is an interesting question for the player because it will in part determine the flow of Void points from this disadvantage - the more severe their pacifism the more void points they get, and the more Strife they will get,
So it's kind of self-limiting.
From your perspective, I'd consider looking at the deadliness of weapons - low deadliness weapons may or may not be acceptable to the player, but it is a good starting point, certainly I would consider weapons incapable of doing anything other than wrecking up armour okay in many cases, but would still have to think carefully about the situation - attacking an incapacitated enemy should be a problem,
But really, leave it to the player - they'll figure out their characters ethics, and if they make the Disadvantage too weak then they suffer through lack of void, so they are encouraged to find a middle-ground.
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It's one of the cooler aspects of the way L5R handles disadvantages - sure, you can take anything you want - want a physical disability in a court game? Fine, but you won't get many VP for it,
Magnus Grendel reacted to this -
23 hours ago, UnitOmega said:Unless you take the Ferocity disadvantage, then you definitely kill every minion you defeat automatically.
That's not what the rules on p309 say:
QuoteWhen a minion’s fatigue exceeds its endurance, it is simply defeated. A defeated minion is slain if the source of damage that defeated it is 7 or higher; otherwise, it is non-lethally dispatched.
I mean, you can kill defeated minions if desired regardless, but it certainly isn't automatic.
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3 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:Its due to how rolls are resolved. Resolving Opportunities is part of Step 6.3 while success is determined during Step 6.4. Heart of the Dragon, like the condition inflicting elemental opportunity Kata, make someone roll something while another roll is resolving.
Sure, but I think what @Avatar111 is saying is that the opportunity could be worded such that you buy the opportunity during Step 6.3, but that it is resolved after the ongoing strike,
In this case I don't think the text supports that, but it might have been written like this:
QuoteHeart of the Dragon (Mastery Ability):
Once per round, when performing an Attack action check, you may spend * as follows:
*: After resolving this action, perform a Strike action with a readied weapon you have not used for an Attack action this turn.Just to be clear - it doesn't say that, but if it had done so it would have been triggered at 6.3 but resolved after the action.
I'm going to slightly disagree with @Avatar111 interpretation of the action above:
QuoteI really think you finish the iaijutsu rising blade check before drawing another weapon.
Have you ever tried doing a iaijutsu strike with one hand?
I would actually visualize it more like this:
Distract my foe with my primary blade, attack with my secondary blade, then follow up with my primary blade,
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I'd guess it'd be up to you,
I would note that:
1/ Sympathetic Energies has a very short range (i.e.: you need to be within sword-reach of both the source and the targets for the condition), sure you can boost the range, but then you're likely talking about five or more kept dice (two successes and three or more opportunities), and at that point if you are regularly managing this then your character is just **** awesome, your die rolls are awesome, or you've been channeling for several turns... Either which way you deserve something cool to occur.
2/ Minions never (or at least very rarely) seem to gain the "Dying" condition - they never receive Critical Strikes, and they are "defeated" when their fatigue exceeds their endurance, at which point they are either lethally or non-lethally dispatched depending upon the damage source (and whilst "Dying" may be a Condition, "Dead" is not...). So for there to be a "source" for the Dying Condition , either there must be a nearby dying Adversary or PC - this isn't likely to be as common as might initially appear, and where it does occur it likely means that the fight is either starting to wind down (major NPCs are out of the fight, and who cares how the mooks are taken out) or the PCs are in dire straits, and that's just heroic at that point...
3/ As written, targets will get the full "Dying [X] clock - you get "Dying [X]" when you receive the condition - the X doesn't count down as such, it just means you will die in X turns (this is my interpretation, the rules aren't particularly clear here), so if you spawn the condition on someone with, say, "Dying 3" and one turn left to live, I would assume that the new targets all begin with three turns of life left (not the one turn the source had left),
4/ Unless other conditions apply, remember that the dying condition doesn't actually hinder you up until the point of death - you can go about your normal business, or even treat the Condition yourself, whilst you have "Dying". This is more of an issue when you receive the Condition in the normal way - because that usually happens when you also have "Exhausted" or are otherwise hindered (preventing you from treating it or performing many actions), but just getting this Condition alone isn't so much of a problem.
With all of that said, if it isn't working for you change it - and let us know if you find it a problem as it'll help others,
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That's cool - thankyou,
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Thanks JasonMFlow,
I meant slightly more specifically though - are there any clues of hints I should incorporate?
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Hi all,
Looks like some of you already have Mask of the Oni, so a quick query if you don't mind,
I'm looking at probably wrapping up Dark Tides this week (players depending of course), and my copy of Mask isn't due to arrive until the weekend.
I get the impression from the below thread that there are some links between the plotlines, possibly pertaining to Kitsu Sokori? Is this the case? Is there anything I should try to do to ensure that the transition between the two adventures is as easy as possible?
Many thanks,
Incidentally, is it possible to do "Spoiler tags" or something similar on this forum?
Printing Bonus Content
in Legend of the Five Rings: The Roleplaying Game
Posted
Does anyone know of a quick way to strip the backgrounds out of FFGs bonus content for L5R?
I want a print to use them, but they don't seem to be layered (at least not in a way I can use to turn off the backgrounds), and they're somewhat ink-heavy (can't fault the presentation for looks, but it isn't ideal in practice!)
That and I'll likely end up printing in B&W, which makes everything a lot less legible with backgrounds,