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LegendofOld

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  1. Just because everybody is doing it doesn't mean it's "the best". The nice thing about Akbar is that in some ways, the game goes into easy mode. You don't have to worry about maneuvering to get two firing arcs shooting at one hull zone, you can just plop as many dice mods as you can manage on an assault MC-80 and blaze away from long range with your broadsides. (The Akbar slash is an admittedly good if risky maneuver). While this is easy it is far from cost effective in terms of dice. If I'm willing to waste a turn or two gaining fighter superiority, I'm usually able to get a lot more dice into the hull zone I want to hit with a group of x-wings/b-wings and careful maneuvering than I am with old fish face. There are many equally viable and far more interesting options. Just don't let all those red dice distract you. One you go bomber black, you never go back.
  2. Howdy, y'all, I was one of the beta testers way back a year or so ago. I remember a lot of anger and angst from those days (which led me to wander off), and I was wondering how Dark Heresy eventually turned out. What do you guys think of the system? I want to take a look at it, but none of the local stores have a copy. Could you guys give me a run-down? LoO
  3. What this guy said. We're adults. We should solve out own problems. Don't worry, the angry folks who're pissed that the original beta is gone will wander off eventually. I wandered off from the last beta shortly after it started because I got tired of hearing so many people rag on Beta 1.0. These guys will ultimately be drowned out by the majority.
  4. Sensible post is sensible. Don't go H.B.M.C.! I enjoy reading your thoughtful commentary, even if I completely disagree with it!
  5. Quote: "How the hell is that supposed to work exactly? You want to be a Rogue Trader by day, and an acolyte by night? If that is seriously the problem you had with the Beta, your issues with the setting go far deeper than the rules in a book." "Or were you having trouble making Rogue Traders to interact with your party? No idea how to introduce a Space Marine without a stat sheet provided to you? That's a you problem, not a system problem." Now you're just being dense. Even the current systems aren't particularly compatible. And characters from the different game lines interacting happens all the time in the novels. Hell, there are plenty of Rogue Traders just in the published Dark Heresy 1 adventures. Wanting to have reliable rule systems behind them isn't really all that outrageous. I think you need to go cuddle up on your couch with a thumb drive containing the original beta and think some happy thoughts for a while
  6. People will always be more vocal about the things they dislike than the things they enjoy. That's why I am here tonight, after all. They had complaints, and parts of the system did not work terribly well. That doesn't mean they need to reprint OW. Revision is putting it nicely. Actually, it does mean they need to reprint Only War, at least if they want to listen to their beta testers. The vast majority of testers hated the new system and wanted to see Only War with a coat of black paint. While I personally loved the old beta, I am in the minority, it seems, and there's no sense stirring up a bunch of crap over something we can't change.
  7. I don't think that's entirely accurate. Most of the beta threads I read were more foaming-at-the-mouth rants than actual coherent criticism. What FFG saw were repeated usage of these words in all capital letters: HATE, BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE, ONLY WAR.
  8. As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with this guy. You really need to read the massive host of .... stuff..... down below.
  9. Ho no. Don't you dare blame this on FFG. The Beta community did this to itself. This is exactly what the most vocal members of the beta community appeared to want as the first test was winding down.
  10. I was really hoping you were going to reply with "Let them eat cake."
  11. Dark Heresy 2: The Bitching Continues. Allow me to say that I enjoy your use of the word 'us.' Continue my liege. Command those lowly game developing peons to carry out your mighty will.
  12. -Or hits a dead end and nearly tanks the franchise because they disregard the desires of the established fan base, like D&D4E... 4th really is a great example of the two sides of the debate. I would argue that 4th had fantastic game design and was enjoyable for a minority of older fans of D&D as well most of the people who were new to D&D. The problem with D&D4E was not that the game design was bad, the problem was that the majority of the fanbase wouldn't let go of 3.5 -- thus the rise of Pathfinder. I went the Pathfinder route myself. D&D4E wasn't really my thing. I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me and prefer the Beta. I'm trying, perhaps poorly, to explain why some of us feel so frustrated and express my admiration for one of my favorite gaming systems, DH 2.3. When I see people taking potshots at something I love, I feel compelled to defend it. Alas, it's probably too late for that.
  13. Yeah, what a total git for politely asking if someone at FFG might have the time and inclination to compile the v2.3 material into a single pdf. Something we customers can't, or at least aren't supposed to be able to do ourselves. Never have I heard anything so whiney, entitled and just plain obnoxiously rude. Off with his head, I say! ... Maybe you should just take a deep breath, Mr. Snowman, and chill. Thank you.
  14. Tantrum? What tantrum? The only person calling people names, telling people to not let the door hit them on the way out, or making wild accusations in this conversation appears to be you. I never said that APs were new, I just said they are one of the methods I'VE ALREADY SEEN that makes a good replacement for the half action system. And don't know what the product will look like? Are you joking. What, exactly, do you think the phrase "more consistent" means? Because DH2 is being made 'compatible' with the rest of the WH40KRP line, everything from the Beta has been axed? There will not be a single new element? Even though every single game in the WH40KRP line has introduced new mechanics? What are you basing that on? There are plenty of elements from the Beta that can be added to an OW-base and still qualify as compatible. Wound Effects can easily be added the existing 'hit point'-style Wound system (applying minor effects whenever a character takes a hit in excess of his Toughness bonus, and a major effect if he takes a hit dealing more than twice his T bonus, for instance). And Action Points might be added to the mix. Characters in WH40KRP games currently receive the equivellant of 3 AP (two Half Actions and one Reaction, potentially modified by Talents); drop the Beta RoF rules, and changing over to Action Points wouldn't violate compatibility at all. Add Influence, Subtlety and the whole Narrative Tools section, plus some odd goodies like Challenge Ratings (something the system has sorely needed) and more detailed character creation, and I'm pretty optimistic about DH2. I tried to like the Beta; I really did. But I just couldn't overcome the feeling that, as a new, experimental system, it was just trading the bugs from DH1 (caused by it being the first of its' line) for a whole new generation of bugs... After you change the skills, talents, new NPCs, and combat system to be "more consistent" with OW, what, exactly, do you have left that makes Dark Heresy stand out from Only War in terms of mechanics ?(the vast majority of the narrative tools are useful, if you've never run investigation centric adventures before, but none of those things are core mechanics, the part of the system that's the most significant. There's really only two mechanics in the NT section, and one of those is a refined version of a Dark Heresy 1 mechanic). Those were the meatiest new parts of the system. It surprises me that you think there will be some sort of middle ground between only war and the beta after seeing the sheer amount of bitching that occurred after the beta started. While I will concede that you could be correct, I highly doubt that you will be. They work, but in terms of core mechanics (the lack-luster character generation system, the bloated skill system, and the talent system that might as well have been eliminated and turned into a class ability list) the 40k RPGs have never been particularly interesting. The reason the 40k rpgs have done so well is because of the pre-existing 40k fanbase and because of the 40k setting itself. The rules aren't perfect, but they manage to capture the grim brutality of the future in which there is only war. Strip out the setting and fluff and replace it with something else, and I find it highly unlikely that the mechanics the BI developed and FFG elaborated upon could carry the game. You name the part of the system, and I can point to a better version of it somewhere out there in the industry. And I wouldn't say they need to target the people that hate their products. However, they shouldn't sacrifice a new, interestig (and, in my opinion, superior) product in order to appease grognads. Don't think I'm knocking grognads. I have every WFRP 2 book in existence and I will see my eyes gouged out before I switch over to WFRP 3. I didn't expect and I don't expect FFG to bring their plans to expand WFRP 3 to a halt merely because there are a ton of people out there that preferred the old system to the new one. I want gaming systems to keep evolving, even if I don't personally enjoy them, because its good for games overall. Newness is important because that's how game design grows and develops.
  15. It's likely a cut-off point because all of the things that were going to make Dark Heresy revolutionary and shiny have been chopped out of the system. An argument can very easily be made that Rogue Trader is more than Dark Heresy was because half of the book revolves around the excellent trade, mission setup, and starship rules. DH 2, on the other hand, no longer has anything of significance to contribute after every single core mechanic that was different from OW was axed. While I might buy the fluff books for the setting, there's no reason to buy Only War with a black cover. Unless you're going to point out that paragraph on subtlety. Because that's worth sixty dollars right there. It's extremely frustrating as well because AP's were one methods I've seen for doing away with one of the oldest and least interesting mechanics in all of roleplaying: the "half action" system. It's been called a variety of things, but for as long as I can remember, characters have always essentially had two actions. One of them could be an attack and one or more of them could be a move. Action points allowed for in-betweens. Move less, fight more. Fight less, move more. Far more interesting and dynamic. For the first time, I felt like the mechanic -- even with its current problems -- more accurately reflected reality. You have a certain amount of time. Do whatever you like with it. Talent trees may not have been perfect, but arbitrary class restrictions had been removed. Skills were meaningfully consolidated. Wounds -- while troublesome for non-human adversaries -- gave some interesting drama to normally dry combat. And now we're stuck with vanilla 40k. I love the 40k RPGs but they are, and have been, at the bottom of the barrel in terms of interesting core game design ever since Black Industries opted to build that awkward as hell 8 rank class system back in the original Dark Heresy.
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