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  1. just a suggestion.... why not have the tech priest have gotten to the point that his experiments were culminating in a final flourish but he could not figure out the final step in the Proteus Protocol... in a regressive (emotional) response he started the process of communing with the warp through a ??? (forgive me i do not have books to hand but i am sure there is a techheresy whereby tech priests create a "machine" that brings forth demons) where he encounters a "helpful" soul... this demon sets about explaining how the tech priest is able to take the final step in the Proteus Protocol... that is self sacrifice by ritual.... unknown to the tech priest this is a ruse for the tech priest to sacrifice himself to the demon and become another pawn in his retinue... the ritual was in process with the final part to undertake... the tech priest's self sacrifice... yet lo and behold the acolytes arrive and stave in his head with a thunder hammer before the ritual was finished... this inadvertent interruption shatters the ritual and sets the tech priest free from his body and without anywhere to go... the ritual worked on the premise that the most powerful relic in the area would be the focus of his soul... previously a brand new and improved cogitator for example (may have to retcon the story)... however the thunder hammer from the golden age was in the wrong place at the right time... with the tech priest's soul sucked into the thunder hammer all is over... or is it... in however long... the tech priest's conscious starts to awake within the thunder hammer and able to effect the power field... effectively providing bonuses and minuses whenever the tech priest chooses etc... however... once the power field in the future connects with a cogitator for example the tech priest will be released to start his reign again... suggestion that any psykers are able to see that the thunder hammer is "possessed"...
  2. i agree that the sensei are somewhat played up but the idea (i think previously mentioned) that they are psykers who have the honest belief that they secure their powers from the emperor directly rather than the warp is a step in the right direction (for me)... maybe they are not direct descendants but the idea that they take power from Him makes the idea plausible... especially if you start to add in "faith" talents etc... in any event the decision is for dm and players alike to decide whether they are or are not part of their games history... i would just like to see how this would start to see the game world evolve... ps... what if the "imperial truth" was then advocated by these "heretics"? how would the astartes move? what would happen with the current view on faith?
  3. so i am gm'ing a game where the pcs are starting to move in the higher echelons of a hive world where disputes no matter how small the slight are to be dealt with by duelling... my difficulty is that with two characters facing off at approx. 20 yards the rules provided for ballistic tests mean a hit pretty much every time... in addition with the pcs on 20+ wounds a single shot from a pistol will not kill... so the question is how do you make duelling lethal... my thoughts are that in combat pcs are constantly moving and are always trying to protect themselves whether twisting and dodging in hth or scampering from one cover point to the next in a shooting match... therefore your wounds count for more... in a duel you are standing still and have to wait for the potential kill shot... my thoughts were as follows... in a duel pcs retain their toughness bonus... bs tests are on normal bs... a miss is a miss... there are no bonuses as you are essentially staring death in the face... however you can choose to aim which may mean your opponent would have the opportunity to shoot first... on a hit however damage is rolled normally with the toughness bonus reducing damage... any remaining damage goes onto the critical hit charts... i appreciate that this is rather serious but the "honour" of the duel would mean that they are tended to immediately with medicae... death woul be considered "improper".... any comments on a postcard!!!
  4. but this is my point.... there are references to bygone thoughts that have never been truly retconned... some of the ideas which were once thought to be burdensome... such as the squats with their handlebar moustaches and trikes... could be revived but with panache and grace that would add yet further dimensions to the 40k universe... the setting is so vast that there must be such things... as for the sensei that is a different matter but say they do exist... what is wrong with the idea that they do??? Surely there is an argument to suggest that there must be some form of mechanism that will take humanity past the 41st millennium... or has the emperor truly forsaken the human race??? If as he thought humanity’s saviour was that of the psyker surely he would have placed “things” (apologies for the poor wording) in place to drive such a renaissance forward....
  5. sadly this is a pretty common occourance in the UK as well sister cat... we have kids having kids and where the generational gap used to be a buffer against stupid that has been slowly erroded... simply put witty... satirical... clever... observational jokes etc are funny... most other aren't... as a side point it's really disappointing to think that there are people out there who really think that that sort of joke is funny... have we really lost a generation of thinkers to a throw away lifestyle where they consider that it is their right to expect... i bloody hope not...
  6. @ lightbringer - cypher is a classic example of the tabletop encroaching on the rpg and fluff... as a character he is genius... problem is that the nerfs get hold of the idea and make it into something awful... @ peacekeeper_b - the primarchs are the emperor's sons... but there is the chance that there are others... i definately think that as these ideas having been around for an extended period of time... that is the realms of chaos books and before... we are in a position that the sensei etc are apocryphal in their existence... lets say that the sensei do not exist who's to say that the illuminate do not consider that they do... imagine an enterprise that really believes that they exist and are still going for the same end??? i appreciate the frustration in ideas being resurrected but i don't think that this has actually been killed off...
  7. @ Peacekeeper_b - i appreciate that there is a tendancy for "the emperor's ninja sons (or daughters)" to become something comic but i wonder whether this is the tendnacy for the tabletop to encroach into the rpg... the tabletop game represents the elite of the races and seeks to make them cinematic in their actions... the problem with this is that what are excellent character concepts bandied around by the GW model hawkers is a receipe for disaster... the space marines for one are turned into 2d versions of what could be excellent characters... the same i suggest falls with the sensei... don't get me wrong the name "sensei" conjures up mental imagry that is not conducive to the 40k universe and "space faring time travelling ninja pirates" are not what i suggest should be referenced... however to say that these individuals do not exist is well enough but to suggest so because of the Jaq Draco stories is something altogether different...for example... what of cypher??? does he not seem such a person??? if we accept that we cannot be sure that he is a space marine what else could he conceivably be???
  8. @ ZillaPrime - but that is the point... i am sure that "squats" appear in DH and RT games on a daily basis... again... i can't think of a time that they were specifically retconned but rather never mentioned... i can easily see colonised worlds cut off from humanity who are subject to additional gravitational forces that have led to the creation of squats by proxy... that said... zoats... well... they were once part of the genestealer fluff... i still think of them occassionally in realtion to WHFRP 1st Ed... ahhh... druid spells and elvish speaking... a-n-y-way...
  9. @ sister cat - absolutely! @ lightbringer - i agree completely... i have always been interested in the idea that there were "demons" (forgive the analogy) for the emperor who were able to counter the seething mass of the chaos demonic legions... that said... i am very interested in the grey sensei... i like to think that above all of the schemes and plots that are undertaken by whomever, the inquisition, cults, adeptus organisation or otherwise there are a groups of sensei and grey sensei pulling on the strings... that is not to say that the entire 40k universe is shackled to their machinations but rather they are plucking strings that bring about "the end"... obviously this is probably not in the best interest of 40k as a whole but rather a potential for a new era... if i remember right luddite (he who should be honoured) once suggested that the imperium is heading to a renaissance... i have to agree... it would be very interesting to see whether this happens and if in only my mind the sensei are doing their bit to bring the imperium closer to a unified regime... i agree that it is unlikely that sensei plus support staff will become part of DH, RT and A at the moment but perhaps a suggestion that the 40k universe is not only war but a place where humanity is to strive for more... the great crusade has ended... perhaps there should be another with the sensei at its head??? discuss...
  10. ok... the issue of the sensei and their collective siblings and support network have been an issue since the Jaq Draco stories and the "Lost and the Damned" "Realm of Chaos" book... my question is "have they really be retconned?"... i ask this as i see numerous posts and comments about the sensei etc but have yet to see a clear line of thought to show that this has actually happened... what i have seen is that the sensei have been left alone and not commented upon rather than being retconned... i am happy to be proved wrong but i still think that in the 40k universe there is scope for such beings...
  11. for my ten pennies worth... iain.m.banks [probably my favorite sci-fi author] - Consider Phlebas; The Player of Games; Use of Weapons; The State of the Art; Against a Dark Background; Feersum Endjinn; Excession; Inversions; Look to Windward; The Algebraist; Matter; Transition... Michael Marshall Smith – Spares Peter F. Hamilton - The Night's Dawn Trilogy
  12. as an over exuberant youngster (and more recently as a slightly deranged gamer) i would charge at my friends and use the classic "dakka, dakka, dakka" sound of (insert as appropriate) gpmg/sten gun/m16/ak47 etc etc etc... however when looking at the dynamics and mechanisims of the fabled 40k bolter i am somewhat at a loss as the sound it would make whilst firing... it is known that the bolter shell is a mini-missile which ignites and once in contact with the target explodes... so to throw the preverbal gauntlet would those who have a penchant for such thing please explain how such a weapon should sound...
  13. ok... so i have tried to view the thread in detail however subject to my comments below please forgive me if i have missed anything major... option 1 - perhaps the most expedient and to me sensible option is allowing penetration to effect toughness bonus once past armour value (if any)... this does not remove TB but rather makes the weapons with a "penetration capability" do exactly that... option 2 - as above however any penetration that goes over TB and AV adds to damage... i.e. Joe Goon has TB of 3 with a AV of 5... he is hit with a weapon that has a damage of 2D10 with PEN 12 (forgive the rather generic example)... player before rolling damage has already scored 4 points of damage due to the penetration of the weapon... (obviously this makes weapons far more dangerous but reiterates the grimdark of DH)... option 3 - probably the most significant possible change... a friend of mine when we play WHFRP completely amended the toughness and armour system as follows (amended for DH)... - there is no TB - TB only exists for those with the unnatural characteristic i.e. a PC with a toughness bonus of 4... x1 (normal) = TB0 ... x2 = TB4... x3 = TB8... etc... - wounds are for each body part... a PC with 10 wounds has 10 wounds for each body part... therefore a PC who has take a hit to the head for 8 points of damage will have 2 wounds left to the head with 10 wounds to each other body part... - armour is body part specific... therefore no armour no benefit... - armour was made far more protective... how this is done is up to the DM but my view would be that current AP would be doubled or x1.5... - armour was given "wounds" called penetration points... each section of armour would have "wounds"... my view would be the original AV of the armour pre-change... every time a weapon exceeded the armour value then the armour would lose a wound... once all wounds on the armour were used that armour became defunct... that is not to say that it cannot be fixed however the armour does need patching up... so a worked example... a carapace vest with 7AP in the current system would become "11 Armour Value / 7 Penetration Points"... Joe Goon is shot with a damage of 10... armour stops the damage... no loss of penetration points... Joe Goon is shot with a damage of 12... armour stops 11 damage with 1 point going through... loss of 1 penetration point... this is a detailed way of changing the system for DH and worked exceptionally well for WHFRP... it meant skill such as "strike to injure" were far more helpful and players would seek to hit unarmoured body parts... essentially armour is more helpful and heroes who have more wounds would benefit rather than toughness which in my view relates to endurance rather than a generic damage pool... penetration for weapons would still apply...
  14. I would suggest that (and dare i say it) mutant chronicles is worth a watch however back to reading viriconium is definitely a dark look at the possible worlds of the imperium... i would even suggest that iain m. banks is worth a look (slightly more advanced than the imperium with xenos mixing with the new humanity but some very good social structures that for example are based on how well you play a board game!?!)... my favourite black library are date eisenhorn, the inquisition wars and ravenor... not much about rogue traders admittedly but do have a very good view of the imperium… I would also have to disagree that the inquisition war gets “silly” as it progresses… it may become somewhat disjointed however in light of the fact that the characters are travelling through the webway tunnels it is a very good idea as to how the warp (in whatever form) can send even the hardiest individual insane…
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