So none of you guys against separate upgrade card packs would ever consider running multiple tie advanced each with advanced targeting computers (or multiple ships with engine upgrades? Or any other rebel equivalents?) AND are perfectly happy to buy multiple raiders (or Falcons or whatever) in order to run such a list...?
Having spent a pretty penny on xwing already-I have at least one of every released ship (and happy to continue to do so-I love the game and am happy to support both FFG and my local FLGS) I'm still in favour of separately sold cards where required to allow me to field multiple ships with the same upgrade...

This is such a terrible argument you're making.It's like saying you can never suggest nor critique anything unless you yourself can and want to do better.
Your favorite professional sports team just mess up? No complaining unless you have your own professional team.
Your country can't get anything done? Why aren't you running for office then? If you aren't, you shouldn't be making suggestions.
I mean you must be trolling, right? There's no way any sane person would make the argument you just made.

This is actually a neat idea, it would be similar to the Supplement materials sold for RPG games. It's just the materials to enable play. Some custom tokens, a few thematic mini-cards (talents, mods, etc), and a mission description with printouts (like the list sheets included with the Transport). List on the back the required ships, be it specific (like 3 X-wings and 5 TIEs), size based ("at least 3 small base ships per faction required"), or points (100pts per side required to play). They already do this for the Aces expansions anyway.

1. There are many ways to play X-wing, but only 1 way to play Advanced Ties($80)
2. Thank you, senpai

The RPG cards follow the same principle. They have the exact same info that's printed in the RPG books. They don't actually enhance anything. Yet FF isn't losing money because everyone's buying only the cards for 7 dollars and not the core books for 60. The point is that people buy both.
 
Just because I bought a pack of some Xwing upgrade cards doesn't mean some day I'm not going to want to buy a ship that has the same upgrade cards.
 
Imagine this scenario: Today, I have 7 dollars to spend. Cool, I'll buy those upgrade cards for the ships I already own. A month from now, I have 90 dollars to spend, now I'll buy the Tantive IV because it's a cool ship. It's not like owning the upgrade cards somehow devalues owning the Tantive IV.
 
But again, only FF knows what's a good business decision for them. None of us can say for sure who would buy what.

I see what people are saying but I just think that there are a lot of people that would spend money on card singles or packs that would much rather buy them from FFG then another person or site. I know that the current model does lend it self to someone buying a pack and selling the cards which is still a mini bought.
Again I know that 15 is not a ton for most people but after my peanut was born there is little to no money in the budget for Xwing. So to say just buy a ship for the card you need is 4 months of saving. Look I am not trying to complain but if I am going go buy a single upgrade card I would much rather by it from FFG and support them. I do understand though for a card to exist someone had to buy a ship to begin with.
Anyway just some thoughts .

There is never a need to pay for alt art cards.. they give them away for free at tourneys... that people pay 40 or 80 bucks for them is insane...

Here's a thought. Sell a mission pack. It has a mission tha is thematic and some of the upgrades that are needed to make it happen.Maybe toss in an alt art card. Plus side you don't have to buy ships you dislike. Down side it wouls cast about as mucha s a small ship.
Like Battle of Yavin. Mission for trench run. Upgrades like Stay on Target, Alt Luke card.

I'm not sure why anyone is saying this doesnt make good business sense because they already do this with their other games. For example, the adversary and talent card packs for the Star Wars RPGs. They charge $6.95 for 22 cards.
 
Suppose they released X-wing upgrade cards using that same model. I imagine that profit on 22 cards for $6.95 is much more than a plastic ship model, 10 cards, and a bunch of cardboard counters for $14.95
 
And all the people who are holding back buying that 1 ship just for 1 card, would go and buy the upgrade card packs. I know I would.
 
I guess none of us can really say what's financially viable for Fantasy Flight anyway, but I think it's within the realm of possibility considering they've already done it.

individuals could be a pain to manage for distributors and retailers, but $5.00 packs so you can get the extra cards that come with large/huge ships would be good.

I was thinking about this when reading another post. It makes some sense to me if FFG starting selling the cards by themselves, here are a couple of thoughts.
1. There is always one or two cards that every person wants/needs for their collection. (Example refit, C3PO or advance Senors)
2. There is a second hand market which proves there is a need.(often charging 3-5 per card)
3. I would rather give FFG more money then vendors or third parties
4. Often I have 1 extra dollar not 15. (If the cards were 1 per upgrade I could find a way in a tight budget where the cost of a new ship is just out of my reach most months)
I really feel like FFG could make this work by selling singles or even a set of cards, it would be more exciting if they gave a pack of 5cards with one being a gold boarder for 3. Just some thoughts, what say you forum.

This is true, actually. Team Covenant only ever seem to have the cards which no-one wants in stock. Try and get any of the cards you might need more of than what comes in the packs- Advanced Sensors, Push the Limit, Proximity Mines, Engine Upgrade, Predator, Outmaneuver, R2 Astromech, R7 Astromech, Vet Instincts... All pretty much always out of stock.
Plenty of Determination and Proton Torpedoes available though

This is the sore spot driving this discussion. The TIE Advanced has been just about indisputably the worst ship in X-Wing for a very long time. Even Vader having one of the best pilot abilities in the game hasn't been able to get it into competitive lists because his ride is just that bad. Keep in mind that the relatively less broken A-Wing got its fix for much cheaper.
Intentional or not, this move smacks of FFG going "we don't care that you have to have this if you ever want your Advanced to be anything more than a pretty model. We don't care that it's because we screwed the pooch hard on designing the ship. All we care is that there is a huge demand for it, so we're going to milk it." And yeah, that's smart corporate behavior. That's how big money businesses are run. That doesn't mean the folks on the other side of it have to be happy about it and ask "please, sir, can I have some more."
And where is this thriving secondary market that people in here keep taking about? Team Covenant is always out of the cards people really want (3PO, Engine Upgrade, Predator, Outmaneuver, VI, etc.) and generally only has stock on the things that came in the packs with popular cards but nobody really cares about. All of the eBay stores I've found have the same issue. Do people seriously think cards literally mandatory to play a ship competitively are going to be easier to score than those others on the secondary market?

That will be the only alternative unless FFG changes their mind, which isn't likely. The pro blem is that doesn't support the publisher nor the retailer.
 
I don't want to proxy cards; that's a terrible way to play any game and, really, it just proves the point.

Noone is arguing that FFG don't know what they are doing.
 
Noone has complained about a similar situation, because a similar situation hasn't existed before in x wing. THis is unique because it contains cards that fix a specific problem that shouldn't have existed - unless you assume the TIE advanced is balanced and didn't need these cards.
 
This is different to C3PO for reasons i've already explained. Even Rebel Aces gave you new content and was much cheaper.
 
Here you either want the Raider, which is fine, or you spend £70 to get a couple of cards to fix just one ship.

We can all come here and say whatever we like as long as it is done so with respect and without abuse.
 
You have no business telling me that I can't accuse FFG of anything since you are not the forum moderator and I have not broken the rules.
 
This is a deliberate decision made by FFG which is what makes it so cynical. I don't care for it, nor do I think it's fair on the community. Are you seriously going to tell me that FFG couldn't sell these cards any other way? They'd sell like hotcakes in an Aces pack.

I've no idea what your problem is, but noone is crying. Perhaps you should try being a bit more mature when you post.

By that logic the upgrades will always be pushing something out of the pack they are in. They could have included all sorts of stuff, but didn't. They choose these cards. The whole point of the Aces packs is that they offer alternate versions of established ships (such as the refit for the a wing), so that would have been an infinitely superior product.
 
Telling people they can make do on ebay (assuming there are enough cards available for everyone that wants one) vastly misses the point. I want to support my FLGS and FFG, I do not want to support Mr Ebayer and his price gouging.
 
If the Raider had completley new cards that would be fine. I don't even mind the new Advanced pilot cards. The issue is the upgrades that make it a playable ship. This is a cheap shot from a company that's done very well from this game. Is it so unreasonable that they reciprocate?

They are complaining because they don't want to have to buy one of the most expensive ships, only intended for a particularly and rarely used style of play, in order to get the cards that fix a ship they do use.
 
I've no idea why that's hard to understand.

So your contribution to the discussion is to laugh at people who don't want/can't afford the price tag?
 
How mature of you.

The level of selfish ignorance in this thread makes me sad.  And no, it's not coming from the people who think this is a poor way to package the fix for the Advanced.
 
If someone posted a thread about EA or Bungie requiring a $100 expansion to fix a balance issue with one unit in their game, the mockery around here would be enormous.  In any other industry or even any other company in this one, the player base as a whole would be up in arms over the stupidity of this move.  But not here.
 
If you're happy paying $40 for each of your TIE Advanced, I'm happy for you.  If you want the Raider anyway, awesome - again, happy for you.  Truly - I'm in that latter camp.
 
But if you cannot even conceive of this as a nasty move on FFG's part... if your only response to anyone pointing this out is to flame them, insult them, and point out how they should be just as willing as you to spend $100 for 8 bits of paper that cost FFG effectively nothing to manufacture...  then you are an utterly irredeemable fanboy who deserves every bit of exploitation they get, and is nothing but a sign of how badly X-wing's community has degraded, if its self-congratulatory sense of superiority was ever justified in the first place.
 
The Raider is nice.  The new TIE Advanced cards are nice.  You should not have to pay for the former to get what is effectively a "Yeah, we F'ed up, sorry guys" fix from the second.

Well said. If I wanted the Raider then it looks well worth the price, a rather beautiful piece of work. Unfortunately, I do not want the Raider. I do however want FFG's fix to their own product without a $100 price tag. I would pay for an Aces style band aid, I would pay for a card pack of some kind, but I'll pass on this.

So, FFG fixed Avance. We were all waiting for this fix for a very long time and finaly it's here (or at least it will be). But why do we have to pay 99$ for it? I think it would be much better if we could buy upgrades for 100 points format with ships designed for 100 points games. Don't get me wrong, Epic is cool and it's good we have it but putting cards designed for standard play to a box with a 99$ price is a rip off.

So, FFG fixed Avance. We were all waiting for this fix for a very long time and finaly it's here (or at least it will be). But why do we have to pay 99$ for it? I think it would be much better if we could buy upgrades for 100 points format with ships designed for 100 points games. Don't get me wrong, Epic is cool and it's good we have it but putting cards designed for standard play to a box with a 99$ price is a rip off.

So, FFG fixed Avance. We were all waiting for this fix for a very long time and finaly it's here (or at least it will be). But why do we have to pay 99$ for it? I think it would be much better if we could buy upgrades for 100 points format with ships designed for 100 points games. Don't get me wrong, Epic is cool and it's good we have it but putting cards designed for standard play to a box with a 99$ price is a rip off.