avec said: mageith said: If Amanda could pick her skills (ie. her classes like any college student), what skills would you pick? You mean aside from Mythos Lore? (That would be an awesome university course, by the way. On the other hand, I doubt there are many syllabi that include topics like "Intro to Bravery.") Psych 101? ROTC? I want the Miskatonic U sweat shirt that reads: "Metaphysical Ed." I think part of the problem with Amanda is that skills are way overpriced. As long as everyone gets one, its not very noticable. But when a non magic user gets Master Occultist, we let them turn it back for another random. Granted, maybe that's just the card that could turn some investigator's life around. Skills cost $8 and for that you get a choice of two (3 if Amanda). Or for 10 trophy points you get a choice of 11 or so different allies and many of the allies give 3 different gifts. And even with that, buying an ally around here is only slightly more common that turning up Velma's Gratitude condition card. After Emily buys her way into law enforcement, the rest of our collective trophy points are spent on clues at the Science building and the occasional blessing.

@Avi Yeeeeaaaaahhhh... Arkham Horror is actually a team game. Whether I play solo or with others, I always place the principle of cooperation above all others. And that becomes a discussion around here. Honestly, if I was playing with someone who refused to cooperate multiple times, I would probably stop playing with them ;') granted, I believe one of your non-cooperators is your daughter, so, that's probably not going to work for you. Is it better to have Deputy Emily keep the shotgun, "just in case" or "lend" it to Luke just about to go into a strange other world? Someone is going to have to give up a turn besides in most cases. If you think that is touchy, just try to pry her hand(s) loose from a Gladius of Carcosa. When one is playing by oneself, the decision is pretty easy and always correct. I'd rather play with real people when I get the chance.

mzonic said: I'm all for playing with Amanda, but she is a huge handicap to the team and even the game hates her (Pass vs Fail PS). You can place them wherever, but Minh should be higher than Amanda. Amanda should be closer to the bottom, maybe slightly above weak Speed 3 investigators. Amanda has potential only if you heavily invest in her or if she gets really lucky with her start-up skills. I just wish that she was more like Lola. If the game was chill, say with Azathoth and I got time to get myself a retainer or two, I might let Amanda burn through the skill deck so she'd have 4-5 skills (Then she's amazing). But I'm not counting on Amanda when the world is on the brink of destruction. As I said earlier, I'm never disappointed to draw Minh and always disappointed to draw Amanda. However, according to the stats report Amanda is not a "huge handicap" or even a handicap at all. She's on the winning team 64% of the time, the 17the best (almost the bottom of the top 3rd). Minh is better at 68% and 10th. We really don't need anyone to tell us how utterly average the Arkham Average Girl is, but someone to explain why she's around so much when the team wins. And while they are at it, explain Mark Harrigan at #9, Daisy at #35 (low than Jim Culver) and Hank, Tommy and Trish in the bottom 7. (Probably because they are playing against Innsmouth). If Amanda could pick her skills (ie. her classes like any college student), what skills would you pick?

YellowPebble said: jhaelen said: Maybe. However: How many of those monsters are actually ones you'll typically want to sneak past? Cultists have -3 but unless they get some supernasty special ability from the AO, I don't mind fighting them even if I don't have any weapons. Don't know about you, but I always mind fighting cultists (or any monster, for that matter). Not because I'm likely to lose, but because I waste a turn. The benefit of sneak is not being able to avoid fighting monsters you can't beat, but to avoid wasting turns fighting when you should be gathering clues and sealing gates. Well said! Unless, of course, you like killing for it's own sake! Which many of my investigator friends seem to like. One of the most often asked questions by a newbie is "Can I fight a monster and continue moving?" Now that would be a different game! Most of AH is distraction from our main goal of sending the fiend back to where IT came from! Monsters are chief among those distractions.

Mage: Luke is the most lovecraftian investigator in the game. I love his backstory. But.... I've played him over and over and never ever consider him a benefit. He might generate 6 clues in a game and usually seals 1 gate fairly early on, though it usally takes him 2 trips through the other world, but then flounders. Avi: Have you tried teleporting him into active towns to pick up a large stock of clue tokens for one turn then hop back into a gate for sealing if you don't have enough resources? It's also important to leave open an easy gate for him so he can fully exploit the power of the gate box. He's not a supporting character by the way, he *needs* to be properly equipped with stat boosting items and good weapons, since he's not going to successfully evade monsters. Anyways, I'm always happy when I draw him. He's one of my favorite tier two characters From your other responses, It sounds like you are one of those solo players. In our group of real people, "needy" investigators like Luke are given short shrift. In other words we say to investigators, "If you can't bring it, don't come." Still they come. So luke doesn't usually get the weapons he needs. Walking around in a bathrobe and a mask doesn't bring a lot of sympathy. We actually have one regular who's philsophy is if I don't know you, I won't trade with you until you save my life. If he doesn't end up with a townie, he won't even talk to you. And Emily is just Emily, the deputy, who just can't have enough guns. "You just never know." Once he seals his opening gate, he now has to hunt for clues or money or wade through monsters to get to another gate. On a really good day, under our "you're on your on" system, he's really lucky to get a second gate sealed. I play with a large number of players and only 2 of them are really team players (besides myself, of course.) If you've seen the move "The Mist", you'll have an idea.

Avi_dreader said: I think you're overrating fighters, and underrating clue gatherers. Astute observation. Many of the investigators were 5 or so off one way or the other and I think you picked out the reason. Since Emily (and the majority of others I play with) always turns everyone into a monster killer so she can run for Deputy, I'm more likely to turn everyone into a sneaky git. For most investigators killing monsters is a turn waster. Those that have a side benefit from killing are among my favorites though. Luke is the most lovecraftian investigator in the game. I love his backstory. But.... I've played him over and over and never ever consider him a benefit. He might generate 6 clues in a game and usually seals 1 gate fairly early on, though it usally takes him 2 trips through the other world, but then flounders.

Re: Patrice. I discussed this much with my Cultists, and like many around here, they don't like her because she's not fun. When they play anyone else, Clues can be a challenge to find and cannot be shared; when they play Patrice, the game throws Clues at everyone, and then the game is over. So, you're right: Patrice is the best, and everyone loves to play a rigged game. Oh wait. Maybe we don't. Maybe we prefer to give the AO a chance. But I knew what I was getting into. Bring it on. UNGH! This was DIFFICULT. It was bad enough trying to do the AOs, but the Investigators have infinitely more layers to attempt to quantify: stats, abilities, possessions, etc. I really tried to be as objective as I could, but we all have a different sum of experiences with each of these guys ‘n’ gals, so I’m sure my stank is splattered all over this. Before I responded I look around for your criteria and above is what I found. I guess her unfunness would fall under "etc.". I 100% agree with you that Patrice is not fun. I think she was a mistake. It takes next to no strategy to play with her. In fact, the strategy is for her to lay low and keep safe. Ugh! However, if you are going to rank investigators by "stats, abilities, possessions, etc.", then she really needs to be higher (highest). If you are going to rank her by her design, then put her dead last! Most of the other rankings aren't really worth arguing about. They wouldn't be the same, but they'd be close. I'm glad to see you recognize the abusability of Daisy and Wendy (both of whom I'd personally rank above Mandy). However Daisy and Wendy's PS put a restriction on them while Mandy's either happens or doesn't for the most part. Patrice is above them all and this would be the team I'll be playing when Cthulhu really wakes up! Bast forbid! In the meantime, Strange Eons has given me the ability to disable them to some extent, so Patrice is now a fun girl! And Daisy's OK for a librarian. By the Way, thanks for this work. It was delightfully written.

Wendy is one of the best investigators in the game. Top 3 IMO. I bet you don't like sneakiness very much! And yes an Elder is worth a whole lot more than it's list price. It saves 5 clues ($10) (while costing a stamina and sanity), so $6. It removes a doom token from the doom track. Worthy maybe $10? (or more) The fact that its available from the first turn. Priceless. Hank is also an above average investigator and yes his additional stamina is probably worth $8 plus seldom having to spend or lose sanity is a great combo. I'll have to look further into Tony. Think he can buy a gun for $1?

jgt7771 said: Rankings 30 to 21: 30. Patrice Hathaway, the Violinist. SIGH…I dare not place Patrice any higher, nor can I conscionably place her any lower. She’s got solid stats, good starting possession spread, and the best Clue-generating and Clue-using abilities available. You cannot lose the game if you play with her. On the other hand…it is very difficult to actually LOSE the game if you play with her. That’s not really a game, is it? PS: More of the same, and it all depends on how you like/dislike Patrice as to how you feel about that. Huh? I dislike Patrice but she's still the best. Darrell above most of the great girl investigators???? Misogynist Minh is one of my favorites, but only with her PS. That bumps her up 20 steps or so. Or you can get an ally without it! Ranking them with their personal stories would make a big difference. Though vincent would still be last and Patrice first.

dj2.0 said: re Q4: I think you got it right - although I agree the explanation is a little sparse. You go to the jail, sans half your stash, and delayed. Next turn you stand up and in AE you roll sneak -1 and any investigors in Sawbone alley can give you help. You draw X cards where X equals successes on that roll plus 1. You read them and choose one. If you escape, jackpot. I don't think you said what OP said. You still have an encounter phase even when delayed (but not if you lose your next turn as in Arkham jail). 1 Arrested in Movement phase, delayed and fined. 2 Attempt Jail break in Encounter phase (same turn) (still delayed) 3 In your next turn, you stand up and have an encounter wherever you are (might be Sawbone, might still be jail if you didn't get out). I agree if feels a bit quick. Perhaps the fishmen don't really intend to keep you in jail very long for their own tasty reasons? On the other hand, if you lose your next turn in Innsmouth, as in Arkham, you don't have an encounter the next turn either except that the Innsmouth jail rules say you do. So I think the actual Innsmouth wording is correct and you can get out of Innsmouth jail the same turn you were sent there (but you are still delayed). I imagine this is a FAQ question.

i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/mageith/Cult-of-Ithaqua-Front-Face.jpg

phm24 said: Thank you. I read the October thread. What are you going to buy?

Stenun said: Some of the voices on this board who complain the game is too easy are also some of the voices who complain about "setting" and "theme". Well has it occured to the people who fall in to both the aforementioned categories that the reason they're not getting the most out of the theme and setting is because they are ignoring it in favour of doing everything they can to win, instead? Maybe if they slowed down their hunt for another Elder Sign and instead took the time to have an encounter at, say, Velma's Diner, they'd actually get more out of the game in terms of theme and setting AND it would be harder because they are spending a turn not hunting for the next gate seal but doing something else instead ...And then they'd stop trying to make the game harder for the rest of us and allow us to enjoy it as it is. What's "too easy"? That stat's show players win a bit over 60% of the time. That's a lot better than I do when I play Settlers of Catan with my son and grandson. A lot better. It's a fine line of discrimination to determine what is too easy. In the long run, the stories give a 0% victory, though in the short run the percentage is higher, maybe even better than 60% for the world, though individuals die horribly all the time. Personally I think 50-60% chance of winning for good play is about right. Certain combinations of expansions and GOOS are in fact easier than that. For them the game is too easy. Some are so hard and/or difficult as to be boring. For those of us who know some of the stories and know some of the names of the Ancient Ones through those stories, the basic game Ancient Ones compared to the later Ancient Ones are not in line. Incidentally I recently tried a game where the Clues were originally placed on the stable locations to begin the game. All the clues were picked up except Velma's and the Police Station. Have you tasted Velma's Chili? That's why even a clue wasn't enough to entice any investigator to eat there. And of course you're more likely to be shot in the Arkham police station than any place else in Essex county. Another tidbit. I have a GPS and I put in "Velma" under diners and there wasn't any. Then, last week, on my annual home visit to Terre Haute, Indiana, I passed a newly opened "Velma's Cafe". I didn't go in there either. But I did stop to look inside. Her blue plate special was calamari (just kidding). I've been in Velma's (in Arkham) a bunch. I even worked as her bouncer for a while. I was there when she went insane when the blight got her. It was Terror-ible.

Here's the latest discussion: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=5&efcid=1&efidt=216123&efpag=0

From revised rules, page 23: "SPECIAL CARD LIMITATIONS In most cases, a player may never have more than one copy of each special card at the same time. This rule applies to Retainers, Bank Loans, Silver Twilight Memberships, and Bless/Curse cards"

Please, PLEASE reconsider Kingsport. I think the majority can agree: it needs something. My suggestions? Glad you asked! 1) If a rift opens as normal, but the location is either sealed or contains an open gate, the rift instead opens at the Strange High House in the Mist, in Kingsport. In this manner, all three rifts could potentially open in Kingsport. Or just have the rift open at the location of the last rift progress marker. I've played several games where I actually opened gates in Kingsport this way. I agree Kingsport needs something, but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting anything from FFG here. Hope I am wrong. 2) Maybe add an Environmental Mythos card or a Rumor that somehow causes all monsters in Kingsport to count toward the monster limit, possibly causing a spike in the Terror track. I'd like to see this for Dunwich and Innsmouth, as well. I've played where the KP monsters count. Usually it doesn't do much. However if you let the rifts open and a few monsters are generated it might. What sometimes happened is the monsters that would have ordinarily come to Kingsport get sent to the Outskirts. That was irritating. 3) This one is a little more in-depth and hasn't been playtested nor examined thoroughly for potential balance issues: Add a new monster type, either as a permanent feature or a Herald. Three monster tokens, green unique movement border, each with a different symbol. Each is Elusive. Each could have different stats and abilities, but that's not terribly important. Call them "The Kingsport Three" or something (I know, not based in existing Lovecraftian literature but hear me out - if someone can think of something more fitting, please do tell!). Each of the Three start in a pre-set location in Kingsport, quite distant from one another. If you manage to trap and hack one or more down in combat, they do not return to the cup, they instead are placed back at their original start location. Unique movement, they move as a Stalker that is capable of entering Stable locations. They possess the ability to destabilize an otherwise stable location and tear a hole in the veil assuming one or more occupy that same location. If ever two of the Three appear in the same location, immediately draw a monster from the cup and place it there. Should the entire trio find themselves together for any reason, a gate opens and a special monster appears at their location or in an adjacent location (if the three have gathered in the street) connected by a movement line (first players choice, cannot choose to place gates at a location already containing an open gate or an active rift). Special monster: Once the gate is opened, the Three are removed from the board and are replaced with a larger, more menacing beast that wanders Kingsport, increasing the Terror level (haven't really considered the mechanics of this). If this beast is defeated, it is removed and the Three are returned to their original start locations, to begin anew! This creates an opportunity for gates to open in KP and gives the investigators something else to balance in town. In the absence of investigators, the little buggers will pinball around the three streets of Kingsport, birthing monsters and potentially tearing open a gate, at which point they combine and rampage through town like Godzilla. Fun stuff. It sounds like the odds of all three in one location would be very slim. All three in the same street would not be all that rare.

Arkham Horror Wiki http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Duke

I'm still curious as the order of movement for Dark Young. For example, the DY move out of location on black and then move according to the Mythos card (say white), then they move white on the streets. However if they move out of the location on white (mythos), then they will move black on the streets. If you give players this choice then that's a lot of(unreal?) control. Same thing if they are on the streets. If an investigator is adjacent on another arrowed street, the order of DY movement determines if the investigator is ignored or encounters the DY. It gives the investigator (or the first player) the choice. Is that your intention? The order of your wording perhaps intimates that the black movement is first, but its not airtight.

It's probably obvious that you don't draw more than one cult membership, but if you don't or can't, then your introduction seems to indicate that you lose 2 stamina or must pay 3 monster trophies at the cult locations. Is that intended? Since you gain your cult membership at the end of movement (phase?), then you will have a cult encounter (assuming you survive any monsters). When does movement end for this? Before or after you fight monsters? The rules state, for example, you pick up clues at the end of your movement but I think one of the FAQs clarifies that you don't do that until after you've engaged monsters which are still in the movement phase. This might be more of a general rule question. Half the time the Dark Young, when starting on the street will return to their original spot. In addition, because they move always on the black, they are predictable. Also when do they move? At the beginning or end of the Mythos phase or (first) player's choice? It even makes a difference when they move out of a location. If the cult encounter sends you to the streets, do you still have a normal encounter? Or do they take place simultaneously? Be gentle.

Avi_dreader said: I agree with Dam, your game is going to be too easy. May I suggest you try my new Whatley herald instead? ;') I think there's a good chance you'll get the Horror out with it, and if you're playing it with Yog-Sothtoth, there's going to be even stronger incentive to kill it. You guys are probably right, but since we've never had the experience it should be fun--at least once. I doubt we can ignore IT since it will be spitting out a doom token every six turns or so. But we just need the baseline experience.

Avi_dreader said: Nobody likes Wendy? ;.( Now *I'm* getting pouty. Patrice, Mandy, or Daisy... Ugh. I suppose they ask for heralds too. Three per game! I didn't really say that. It's that she's not high on the list of investigators they want to be. She's cute for a little girl, but she's a little girl. mmm. Heralds? What are they? No, no one asks to make the game harder. I do have lots and lots of mods that make the game more "realistic" and/or thematic and may "incidentally" make the game harder, though some make the game easier. Often they come in the form of Ancient heralds. These are heralds that look like, on paper, ancient ones. This weekend I'm going to play a game where the Dunwich Horror is in the game from the first turn, in all of his unheralded glory. If the players defeat IT they win the game (other normal victory conditions are in effect). For some reason, its very difficult for my games to bring out the Dunwich Horror (even though I often play Dunwich Horror as the only expansion) and when IT does come out, its usually so late in the game, we just ignore IT. I don't think we've ever (bothered to) defeat IT.

mzonic said: Dam said: mzonic said: The balance that I can see is that they made some investigators better/more suited for the increased difficulty with expansions. George Barnaby still got the really, really short straw. Well, I said they made SOME investigators more suited. It goes along with my thinking that they made some investigators better than others. Though Patrice isn't more suited; she basically changes how you play the game (if you want to abuse her ability), and hands you the win. How do you not abuse her ability? Just make her stingy? Give her a clue umbrella? I suppose one way is to make her greedy and send her to all the dangerous locations. In any case, she adds 15 or 20 or more clues to the mix. It makes Hypnos and even Prof. Rice seem like pikers. Like I intimated, I changed her rules with Strange eons, but short of that she's hard not to abuse. I'd like to know what FFG was thinking. Or if they were.

Dam said: mageith said: Dam said:grr, still hating the quoting... I like George. Only had good games with him. He holds onto his retainer a long time for me and usually lets more than one person get out of jail. If you're constantly getting arrested, you're doing something wrong . Playing Innsmouth with non sneaky investigators. Plus with George in the game, we take more chances maybe. I can only remember playing with him in the game about 4 times, but each time was fun, but he doesn't always survive. Once an investigators gets devoured, he doesn't return until everyone else has been devoured. He's not a very physically attractive investigator and he's a lawyer and I think that makes a difference. Just ask Daisy.

Dam said: grr, still hating the quoting... I like George. Only had good games with him. He holds onto his retainer a long time for me and usually lets more than one person get out of jail.

Avi_dreader said: ::Laughter:: that's possible. Maybe. But I think you're underestimating FFG even more than you ought to ;') If they playtested the game at all, they would know that some characters are *much* stronger than others. C'mon, you really think they didn't know that Mandy was a huge team bonus? They're not subcranial cavedwellers ;') Personally, I think it was a very good idea having variant investigator powers. That way teams who want easier games can make it easier, and teams who want harder games can make it harder, and teams who want randomness can make it random. :') Everyone's a winner! I've played lots of games and over and over again I've seen failures in playtesting that seemed glaring but were actually unintended consequences. However, it didn't take very many seconds to see Patrice as totally out of line. At least with the other above average investigators (Wendy, Daisy and Mandy), it does take a little experience and some strategic choices to make them sing, but with Patrice all you really have to do is litterally sit there and the clues rain down and then get passed out. Not only is she way too strong, she's boring. In the majority of cases, the PS help a lot of weaker investigators and imposed some restrictions on some of the stronger ones, but not with Patrice (or Dr. Vincent on the other end). I don't think everyone is a winner with this vast variation. I play with dozens of different people and some get kind of pouty if they can't have their favorite investigator. That's OK if its Jim Culver*, Monterey Jack or Ashcan Pete (all multiply requested), not so OK when its Patrice*, Mandy and/or Daisy*. (Nobody asks to be Wendy, however, though I think she's one of the strongest.) *I've made special rules for these three along with the politician for balance purposes.