Kobu said: Doing every 4th mythos definitely would have made it closer, but I think it would have been way too easy. I'm going to try with same criteria before changing variables again. There are ways to make it harder/fairer. I've done it but I've made it like all aspects as if there are four players (every 4th Mythos). For example, Like 4 players, there can be up to 7 monsters on the Arkham board. Also, like for 4 players, there can only be 4 monsters in the Outskirts. We treat rumors like there's four players, but you'll have four turns to solve them. Also there can be only 6 open gates, 7 is too many like for 4 players. It's like having a four investigator party but all all with the characteristics of Dexter. But we always try to seal or close. We count final battle as a draw.

Kobu said: I tried two solo games with Dexter Drake and all expansions. The way I did it was to give multiple movement and encounter phases in a row by skipping mythos and upkeep. Mageith: You skipped Upkeep too? Was that ever inconvenient? Kobu said: His Epic Battle card basically failed him and he got dead in I think five rounds. Mageith: How close to sealing were you? Would skipping 3 phases (like a four player game), bring you closer?

Dam said: Why are Shudde and Cthulhu in the top half? That makes no sense at least from my experience/POV . Small parties that take on Cthulhu have little chance of sealing or closing him. The final battle will greatly favor Cthulhu. Sometimes we forget that there are three main victory (and defeat) conditions. If Shudde awakens, he's already got 3 or 4 earthquakes under his belt and this doesn't give a lot of time to beat him in the final battle. Yig OTOH, is easy to take down no matter what.

allstar64 said: *wails for an edit button* There is an edit button-not really a button but the word "edit". In the white bar above your post just before the reply #. It doesn't last very long. Someone said five minutes.

Glasgow wrote: When discussing the interest of the KH expansion, do not forget the rifts. They add another threat, and are fun. Usually we do the upkeep for the rifts until two have opened. If that occurs, we just stop all the upkeep and forget the rifts. Two are sufficient to enjoy the added risk and interest from the rifts. With all the expansions -- and we have ALL -- the variant rules just become a bit on the overly complex side, so we cut a few corners. Mageith: Am I to understand you want rifts to come out? Why not just start with 1 then? That will add about 3 doom tokens and 6 monsters if you don't take care of it. Also, I am curious, how many turns does it take on average for the first rift to come out? And then the second? You can't have too many numbers.

Tibs wrote: When the AO awakens, add 6 doom tokens to its track (even if this sets you over) then remove 2 for each seal on the board. That should still allow a victory by final combat to seem more valid and earned than just a draw, but also discourage gearing up and encourage sealing. Mageith: I like this but not sure of the context. But why remove 2? Why not just remove 1? I'm guessing the 6 represents the number of gates needed to seal.

Colt wrote: Flavor text is always a weak argument because it is just there for ... flavor. But yes, the text implies they are all near each other, not spread all over town. Mageith: One of the reasons I bought AH was because when I read the FAQ most of the rulings went in favor of flavor. So I'd say, in a competitive game, go with RAW (rules as written) but in AH I usually go with the flavorfull interpretation if something is unclear. Besides who's going to know? Cthulhu? Like I'm afraid of ......... FFG

AndrewClarke: I've played the game solo three times now, once with one investigator, and (discovering that that virtually forces you to play for the final battle, and preferring a gate-sealing victory), twice with two investigators. I won every time, and in fact, it was never really even close. And people seem to think that the game gets easier with more investigators, so I can't imagine much chance of losing with more. Mageith: Easier is relative. It becomes easier to seal with more investigators and more difficult. AndrewClarke: I am playing the base game only, no expansions, and I've read through the rulebook several times, as well as playing in a five-player game with someone who knew the game well, so I don't think I'm doing anything major wrong. I did discover post-game-two that I'd once made the mistake of forgetting to exhaust a Withering spell when used, thus applying it several times in a turn against successive monster fights in a single location, but I don't think this made a big difference to the outcome, and I only did it once. Mageith: The basegame is fairly easy if you are a smart person and/or have tactical advice from veterans. Like all Horror Movies, one shouldn't disclose the ending! AndrewClarke: In particular, the following seem to be the case: 1) Unless you adopt a generally dubious strategy of closing but not sealing gates, it's very hard for the AO to awaken due to the doom track (only Yig, due to his 10-doom and doom-increasing-ability, is remotely likely to). If the AO does awaken, it will almost always be due to the terror level rising to 10 and too many monsters arriving. Since there are only 11 unstable locations (and four of them open gates very rarely), more than 11 doom tokens is impossible under normal circumstances. And if you use even one elder sign, no AO but Yig can possibly hit the maximum doom track level. Mageith: The GOO also awakens if there are too many gates open. That's 8 with 1 or 2 players. But the point is there are a number of timing mechanisms. AndrewClarke: 2) Nyarlathotep and Shub-Niggurath are almost ridiculously easy to beat with few players if you simply prepare for the final battle. Grabbing all possible clue-tokens/ monster-trophies is really not hard. Ithaqa, Yig and Hastur (in that order of increasing difficulty) are similarly quite easy to beat in the final battle if you grab good enough equipment. Only Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth make for a really hard final fight (Cthulhu because of his regeneration and high combat-modifier; Yog-Sothoth because gate trophies are hard to acquire and require you to go for a gate-closing strategy anyway); Azathoth being impossible, obviously. It seems like the game is encouraging you to ignore gates most of the time and build up combat capbilities. Because the AO can't awaken from doom tokens, and the terror track can be kept in check by beating up on monsters (which coincidently, also requires good combat capabilities), this generally lets you have all the time you need to "level-up", as it were. Mageith: You know ALL the secrets! (of the base game)! The real question is did FFG (the old ones of old ones), pull you into ITS world so you can buy more games or are you fed up (devoured) with their trickery? AndrewClarke: 3) The real threat in the game is not the AO, but the rumour cards. A really horrible rumour (The Terrible Experiment or Good Work Undone if you're going gate-sealing), can seriously affect the game difficulty. Conversely getting a weak rumour (Southside Strangler, arguably Digging up the Dead) into play and leaving it there to stop any nastier ones appearing is very good. Mageith: Yep 4) Gate-closing victories seem almost impossible, unless you're playing 1-investigator and the Mythos deck hits the same location four times in a row or something. Generally, if you're getting close to closing all gates, you've also sealed enough for a gate-sealing victory. Mageith: They aren't! Half or more of my recent victories have been gate closings. I still usually seal 4, at a minimum 3. In Kingsport, there is an Old One that will burst all your seals, so you will have to figure out a gate closing strategy or die trying. OTOH, having only played 1 and 2 investigator games, your view of our world is horroribly skewed. I've now beat Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth 2-investigators (both times by sealing gates), and Shub-Niggurath 1-investigator by final battle. It doesn't look like any of the remaining AOs offer any significant challenge, unless I try Azathoth with 1-investigator: that sounds quite tough. Mageith: FFG has prepared more delights for you in ITS expansions. Each will add a horrible little twist to test your sanity. I hope you are up to it.

Mykayel: [Just in case you can't tell what it sayis on the sheet] Mageith: Thanks for writing out the words. My computer takes forever to load those images. Mykayel: Worshippers The cultists that worship Azrathan are turned into creatures. Whenever an investigator must battle a cultist, remove the cultist from the game and replace him with a random monster from the cup. Mageith: This is interesting and new. Mykayel: Life Absorption During the Arkham Encounter Phase, if there is a gate open, all investigators in Arkham lose 1 Stamina. When this happens, put 1 Doom Token on the Doom Track. Mageith: This is beyond difficult. Either one of these rules will make the game extremely difficult or impossible and frustrating. There will almost always be an open gate and the Doom tokens will be coming at almost 2 a turn. Mykayel: Start Of Battle: Place a Doom Token from this sheet on every investigator sheet. Mykayel: AttackInvestigators with a Doom Token on them lose 1 Sanity. Every investigator with a Doom Token on him/her, rolls a die and consults the following chart: 1-3: Lose 1 Stamina. 4-5: Skip your next turn. 6: Remove the Doom Token from your investigator sheet. Mageith: So the insanity will continue! I can't see that you playtested this much. I think you would have seen the impossibility and futility of the Ancient Ones. Hey! Maybe you are puling our legs? Mykayel: You cannot use Clue Tokens to roll any extra dice. Every investigator that does not have a Doom Token on them must draw 3 random monsters from the cup and battle them. Mageith: Aaaaaaargh! Mageith: I think you have enough destruction, insanity and futility for three maybe four Ancient Ones. Of course, I'm speaking in game turns only.

Kobu: Next, I'm thinking of taking Daisy alone in a campaign mode. Mageith: If anyone can seal off a GOO by herself, its Daisy with the right spells. Kobu: I may also leave on all the boards and elimate every other mythos phase or something. Mageith: Wouldn't that be like playing with 2 investigators both named Daisy? Actually, I do that a lot, but use a die roll. We skip the phase if high (4-6) is thrown. I think the randomness more fits the game and spirit of the game.

Mykayel wrote: This is the character of an upcoming game, and I made an Arkham "Investigator" out of him just for the fun of it. I made him balanced so the game wouldn't be too easy, but he still is more powerful than any other investigator. The general story for this character is that he entered our world by accident. When a portal to a different dimension opened up, he was traveling using his Lightning Speed ability and got caught up in the rift. That's how he ends up in Arkham. Not a great story, I know, but hey, he's just a fan made investigator created to kill some time. Mageith: He's good but his skill of Lighting (Lightning?) speed is a bit confusing. Combat is part of the Movement phase. So if he moves to a far location, he engages the monster and misses. Since he moved with Lighting, he can't re-roll the fight? Your description leaves in doubt if he can re-use an exhaused weapon? It appears to me, his combat skill is essentially a re-roll such as the Marksman skill? If he did have the Marksman skill, he could then have three re-rolls? I'd probably just let him move with lighting speed (similar to Deputy's patrol wagon) and the Marksman skill card. Also, I think the attack you are avoiding is both horror and combat, but it might not be clear, but again, just giving him the Marksman skill card with clear that up. But now that takes away his Bravery skill card. That might be easier to incorporate into his special skill and also more balanced because he's still going to have to keep his Will up to use it.

elric: Yea, its just street areas, but you dont have to worry about losing movement over a combat issue, because if you are at a gate, thats probably where you intended to go, i really was referring to pre-mature movement ends Mageith: In addition she has a very high sneak which usually allows her to usually successfully evade at the gate, if necessary. However I don't usually risk her against several monsters at the gate because she doesn't have much stamina and sanity to spare. Wendy is awesome to be sure.

Mrs. Gamura: True thematically you sort of have to stretch it but nowhere does it say "all investigators teleport to the nearest area designated for fighting the AO". I sort of view the AO just rampaging through the Town being attacked by a random investigator it happens to cross paths with. Mageith: This is interesting to me on what folks imagine happens during the final battle. I never considered teleportation. Nor did I consider that the GOO fought investigators individually (though I did make some variant rules for that). I did consider all the investigators running, driving or flying to the location or that that GOO was so big that IT was just sort of everywhere. But that doesn't answer the trading question unless they are throwing items to each other as the run toward the Other Worldly beastie. Mrs. Gamura: Maybe they can trade with help from a Guardian, Bast for example has her cats carry items between investigators. Mageith: Has anyone ever told you have a lively imagation! This is a good thing, of course.

mageith: Leo's not a doctor, but he can help others by preventing a stamina or sanity. A stamina or sanity is worth 2 points. Lily can protect herself by restoring a sanity or stamina -- Also worth 2 points. Frank writes: That assertion is wholly unjustifiable. Preventing the loss of a Stamina or Sanity is better than healing one after the fact, because it can stop people from going to the Hospital. So for example: if our Professor was exposed to one or two Stamina loss then he would be at the same point if Leo prevented a loss or he got healed by 1 afterward. But he would be in a much better situation if he suffered a loss of 3 and had one prevented vs. suffering a loss of 3 and having healing available next upkeep. That fact alone makes Leo far superior to the doctor, the psychiatrist, or the martial artist - his power essentially increases people's turn by turn resilience, and the others don't. But beyond that, providing your bonus to any character who needs it is better than providing it to yourself. Mageith: Wow! You are superlative at superlatives to emphasize (or exagerrate) minor differences. The net result for the team between Leo and Lily's healing/preventative skills is nearly negliable. I'll concede that preventing another's damage is superior to healing one's self at the cost of a focus point. I'm pretty sure I conceded that earlier. However 2 points is 2 points and their abilities are directly comparable. So I can't agree with your assertions that one is much better or far superior than the other here. I can go with superior and better, if that will help. Frank: Lily's power doesn't do anything at all on those turns in which she wins her fights, goes shopping, or has an uneventful time in another world. If she personally isn't injured, her power is useless next turn. For Leo's power to be invalidated, every single other character has to go uninjured for a whole turn. In a two player game, his ability is useless half as often. In a six player game, his ability is useless one sixth as often. Mageith: Both of their powers will probably go unused on the first turn. But if Lily loses more than one stamina or sanity, then she can heal herself while shopping, etc. Lily's power does take some action by her to kick in and Leo's only requires that someone remember he has it. Again, in most cases Leo's healing power is superior. However, Lily as an investigator is as useful as Leo, however which has always been my contention. In fact, if I were need to rate one or the other as better, I'd always prefer to have Lily except against Glaaki. Leo is just as good against every Old One. In fact, when I did my own personal rating of investigators, Leo was the standard for average. In order to be an average investigator, you had to be able to bring back an average of nearly 2 points TO THE TEAM per turn. As you stated, Leo can do that practically every turn. But he can never do better than that. Any investigator that can't bring back 1 point per turn is a drag on the team (Dexter is the worst since is very weak power is seldom even used.). Superior investigators bring back more than 2 points per turn, I put Darrell in that category because if he deliberatley uses is skill, he should be able to maximize the good things of encounters and more importantly prevent the horrible gate/monster from appearing. But Gloria is below average even though her power looks similar because she's unlikely to return value and her power will probably only be used 4 times in a normal game. Three characters were even better than that: Mandy, Daisy and Wendy. (Being able to remove 1 gate or stop 1 gate/monster automatically qualified an investigator for average or OK status, for example Marie, Kate and Wilson.) Frank: Even if Lily's power were twice as big as Leo's, it still wouldn't be as good because Leo's works to save people instead of cleaning up next upkeep, and Leo's works to save who needs saving instead of just saving Lily. It's a cooperative game, and cooperative powers are better than selfish powers. Full stop. Mageith: Absolutely disagree that cooperative powers are better than selfish powers. Two of the best three top tier investigators are Daisy with the Summon Shantuk spell and Wendy. Both have selfish powers (though you could construct Daisy to be altruistic if you wanted.). The third top tier investigator is Mandy, which supports your assertion. Now I would agree that exactly comparable abilities that help others are superior to powers than are selfish. For example, Leo would be better than an investigator that has the healing stone power.

Godfeather wrote: The reason behind adding the expansion is to make it more interesting and I like your suggestion of having them enter regulary, but just less so. It sounds fine for me and my play group. Do you think it is too fiddly to do it with the rest of the cards. I guess it is easiest to have two mythos decks, one (smaller) for KIY and one for the base game. Mageith: I don't think its too fiddly, but I might be in a minority there. I build my Mythos deck fresh for each game based on the flavor I want to portray. All other encounter, monsters and investigator cards are permanently mixed in however.

Elric: You seemed to miss my point entirely mageith. An earlier post implied she was overpowered, and this nerf brought her in line with the rest, and that simply is not true. Mageith: I don't think I missed your point. I just don't agree with it. I remember an earlier post implying she was underpowered. I just defended her and said she was adequately powered or just about right in relation to other characters. Elric: Now she is pretty weak in my opinion. All she can do is fight well against monsters. Monsters can be killed well with many investigators, and Lily's lack of resources makes her pretty much the groups monster basher, and nothing else. Gates must be closed, rooms sealed, etc, there has never been a shortage of ways to bash monsters into oblivion. Elric: Its true she is above agerage with regards to monster bashing, but in all other areas she is now below the average. She has no resources, can only heal herself when other doctor type investigators can heal anyone, and you think thats above average compared to the doctors like Leo who can prevent san/sta hits to anyone, anywhere at all? Mageith: No. I think she's comparable to Leo. Leo's not a doctor, but he can help others by preventing a stamina or sanity. A stamina or sanity is worth 2 points. Lily can protect herself by restoring a sanity or stamina -- Also worth 2 points. Other than that Leo is average. Lily can bring 9 points of unmodified damage to the fray. That's worth four dice. I'd rather have Lily than Leo, even now, but both are assets to the party. If their only difference between the two was the ability to heal herself and/or others, then of course Leo would be a little more superior. Elric: I agree with frank, no way on earth was Lily better than Leo, even pre-nerf. And mandy was way better too, in my opinion. She can give the equivalant of up to a 16 dice combat test with her re-roll ability to any character that starts with a gun, once per turn, and thats better than 9 unmodified from Lily, ill take mandy any day. Mageith: I still maintain Prenerf Lily was twice as good as Leo or nearly so. Of course, that was only true if she put herself out there and actually fought monsters. I don't get your point about gathering clues and closing gates. Most investigators can gather clues on the same basis and with a 5 Fight, she can close gates just fine. Darrell, Wilson and Kate can avoid the horrible gate and monster. Rex and Diana can generate clues. Everyone else is pretty much on a par. Most investigators have a 5 in lore or fight, but not all. Mageith: Mandy's one of the three best. Leo's not. I'll take Mandy over Lily too. Elric: I think we can agree to dis-agree on this one. Mageith: OK

Mixing in the KiY Mythos cards won't make the game much harder. There's a few cards that raise the terror level, so your score will be lower. Other than that, Terror Level usually doesn't enter in your game, does it? The encounter cards don't change much either, but I'd put them on top like the touring version suggests. However, the herald will take advantage of the terror level in that they offer negative tweaks to game play (or more doom tokens). Many of the people I play with actually find them fidgety and annoying, however. Mixing in the The Act Begins...will probably actually make the game easier! There's six of them and you'll now have 94 cards so there will be one in every 15-16 mythos. If you see two, I'll be surprised. (Though there is a very, very slight chance you'll get three.) So the Act begin cards will only move the monsters and give the First player a clue token. Your interpretation that the touring edition makes the game shorter is accurate. However bringing out the Third act (which will be likely unless you turn them back over to add doom tokens) will not result in a final battle, just defeat. I always turn back the First Act Begins card for two doom tokens in the touring version and sometimes the second if it comes really early. Adding 2 or 4 doom tokens will definitely make the game shorter. So if you choose to risk Act III by not turning over the Act Begins card, the game may end suddenly with no final battle. Perhaps if you want a lot of the flavor without all the danger, you could draw every other card from the KiY. Other expansions use this mechanic.

Elric writes: The wording on the card says "Each time lily increases max stamina, she gains 1 point of stamina. Each time lily increases max sanity, she gains 1 point of sanity" Sooo, if we agree that we only calculate based on the final position of the slider, the question we ask ourselves after we finish our slider movement is : Did she increase? Whether she Increased by one or two does not matter. if she increased by one, she gaines one. if she increased by two, she still gains one, because the wording makes the amount of the increase irrelavant. Mageith: Actually that's how I play here, one maximum per turn, but after reading everything here, I'm not sure what the new intention is. I think Kevin's fix was to prevent gaining one sanity and stamina per turn by not really doing anything. Now when you increase sanity for example, you risk lowering stamina and vice versa. We play with her a lot and she's just an average investigator, barely, with the heal one stamina/stamina fix. Elric: That being said, she certainly is not the weakest investigator in the game, even after the nerf, and on that point i can agree. Was she the most powerful? Mageith: No. Daisy, Wendy and Mandy are still definitely more powerful. Others are comparable. Elric: Well, after reading the investigators, i can see how she might seem out of balance with the rest of the investigators, but Its hard to compare them. Because of the spirit of the cuthulu game, not all investigators are there for the same reason; some are there, such as the bounty hunter, to collect cash. Others, like the dreamer, are excellent gate closers. Then add the reporter who draws 2 location cards when he draws location cards, and chooses the best one. He is a great clue gathering, location searcher. Mageith: Unfixed she's definitely better than average. I agree with you on Darrell, the reporter. He's a superior investigator. If his rule stops even one gate and monster, he's done his job. Luke, the dreamer, is at best average. It depends on how you play his rule. If he can immediately go back into an Other World on the turn he arrives, he's average. If he has to wait a turn, he's barely average. If he has to sneak out and back in, he's not even average. The bounty hunter is probably average. He's needs a much better weapon to be a real fighter and to do that he probably needs more than his starting funds. Elric: Look at Mandy Thomson's ability to allow ANY investigator, anywhere at all, to completely re-roll a failed check, using all the dice, including ones from clue tokens. And thats useable once per turn. Top that off with mandy starting off with more items than lily. Now for the "combat" characters. Many of them either start off with a high fight rating of at least 4, like Joe Diamond and Wilson Richards, Mageith: I don't consider 4 a high fight, but average. For the most part Fight has to be paired with Will. You need at least 4 Will and 5 Fight to be above average in the combat area, IMO. Elric writes: ...and both of those characters start with a gun, and either twice Lilly's starting cash or more than twice her possessions, including a combination of unique items and common items, increasing the odds of another weapon being drawn or a nifty gizmo. Mageith: Lilly starts with better than either Wilson or Joe. As I said before, you can have upto 9 unmodificable Fight/Combat from the get go. She ready to go against most medium monsters which is about as good as any of the Fighters are. Unlike most of the other fighters she can handle the craziness with her ability to heal her sanity. Elric writes Look at Michael Mcglen. $8 starting cash, fight skill of 6, speed of five, and starts with a tommy gun. Mageith: And but 3 sanity and I think 3 Will (maybe 4). He's the model of the fighter who can't stand the craziness. This really becomes apparent if you've added in the Kingsport monsters which nearly doubles the 2 toughness monsters in the game and chances the mix of monsters radically. Elric writes: Now for Lily, Unarmed combat rating of 9, and can self heal sanity and stamina drains, and can set her sanity/stamina to variable levels. How often have we seen combat characters exceed a combat rating of 9 in a game of arkham horror? its not very hard, the main bonus here is its un-affected by phisical and magical reductions and immunities. But if memory serves, many of those have high sanity hits, and if lily maxes her fight skill, she will fail each and every one because of her horrible willpower. Mageith: In this respect she's no different than any other fighter, is she? ALL the fighters need help, but some of them can get it easier thanothers. It's difficult to improve Ganster McGlen for example, becauses there's little that easily repairs sanity or increases Will. At least Lily can heal sanity losses and its built in. Elric writes: I dis-agree that Lily was too overpowered. She had less gear than other "combat" characters, and less cash. That was the balancing factor. The only thing she really had was that self heal and the unresistable combat vaule, not something begging for a nerf from what i can see. Mageith: She still wouldn't be top tier even if not nerfed. However since she can directly be compared to such characters as the doctor, the psycholgist and Leo the Leader, she was clearly better (more than twice as good) as they are. I think it's that that caused all the uproar. Elric writes: And remember, if she does the toggle self heal, as per the old rules, she cannot adjust any of her other skills, and thats definately a drawback, as i usually am moving my skills around alot to fit the circumstances. So she had less flexability than the other characters did, Mageith: Several investigators have a Focus of 1. She has average focus. She just has more choices. To me that's more flexibility, not less. Many investigators must spend their clues or other resources to gain resources. For example the psychic should hold back 2 clues to stop Mythos cards or Charlie the Politican should hold back clues to stop terror rising. Joe the Private Investigator needs to hold back clues in order to take advange of his special skill, too. Elric writes: ...with skills that tended to be more "locked in". Still, she could do worse, and i agree she is still not the weakest character in the game, but i do not feel she was so overpowered that she needed a nerf. I have played Lily in several of the more difficult games with the hard GOO's, and i have been devoured and eaten just as many times as the other players. Mageith: Under current rules or her original rules? She wasn't the best and now isn't the worst under her current rules. In fact, she's still slightly above average according to my standards, but not much. I'd rather have her than Dr. Vinnie, Rex, Dexter, Amanda, Charlie, Gloria the author, Lola the actress, Jim Culver and even Sister. (You mileage may vary.) She's at least as good as: Luke, Ashcan, Diane the Cultist, Harvey the professor, Michael, Tony and Mark the soldier. Devoured? That's hard to do!

Double Post correction

Frank said: Wait, that amazes you? Any ally you take out of the box by definition exceeds the current ally limit. Even allies that were in the game and removed because of terror increases are above the current limit because the current limit is reduced by the current Terror Track (which never goes down). Mageith says: OK, no argument. Frank wrote: If you think that Charlie Kane starts counting cards as being returned to the box during setup, then by definition you are going to be OK with him not mentioning the Ally limit. Mageith writes: I'm not sure what you are saying here and I don't think I said what it implies. Apparently many folks are confused by the apparent unresolved contradiction of having the 11 card ally deck limit and Charlie's rules. Personally I'm OK with Charlie's rule breaking the ally limit rule, of it does. I don't think it does, nor does it have to. Frank writes: Practically every use of his power is going to exceed the Ally Limit. The ally limit is a total red herring. Frank's beginning ally selection clearly deals with the ally limit and implies, or at least I infer that, that limit continues to be dealt with. Perhaps it is a red herring, but I'd be interested to know why you are so absolutely sure it is. Frank: The question is not whether he can exceed that limit, but whether his ability remembers that those allies were out of the box before the game properly started so that he can target them for having been returned to the box. Mageith: Is that THE question? It's not my question. When a game creates a definition and then uses a definition, then I think its presumptious to ignore that definition. The game created a defintion of being out of the game and calls it "returned to the box". So yes, Charlie, remembers ALL allies that have been "returned to the box" or otherwise removed from the game. Charlie comes into existence on phase 4 and the ally deck is created on phase 6 of the setup. I can't see how your question is a(nother) Charlie question at all.

kilrah said: 2 players should be perfectly playable in my experience as long as you do not add additional boards. I have about 95% win percentage in that circumstance. You SEAL 95% of the time with 2 investigators? The poster is asking about sealing. Even winning 95% of the time is impressive. OTOH, why play a game of despair and horror if you win so much of the time? It looks like its time to add some difficulty. kilrah said: So the problem is more likely the tactic. Hejin57 doesn't say much about his tactic, but "we are closing gates left and right" is certainly a bad decision. Note that closing gates HARMS the investigators as it allows the GOO to gain more doom tokens in the long run. One should only close if there is a reason for it (winning the game, desperately needing gate tokens, loosing the game because of too many open gates,...) Closing gates indiscriminately harms the investigators, but closing gates may or not harm the investigator in that it gives him the chance to trade them for other things or gain additional game points. We generally go for a closing victory and always close the minor gates as soon as they open.

Elric said: "[KH] 2. Can Lily Chen get a point of Sanity and a point of Stamina in the same turn just by wriggling her slider back and forth, or does it just matter where her slider ends? (06/13/08) Originally I had intended her to be able to do so, but looking at the thread on the Yig issue, I've changed my mind. She only adjusts her SAN/STAM based on the final position of her slider. Elric said: Seems to me if it was intended one way and gets changed, it would leave the investigator underpowered versus some of the others, but then again there are so many investigators to choose from its not worth worrying over." You really think an investigator that can gain one or two(?) sanity or stamina per turn is underpowered? Compared to whom? In addition she can have up to 9 unmodified fight that is unaffected be either resitance or immunity. I hate to bring her up against Glaaki, who's servants kill skills, but other than that she's usually an asset. You want someone underpowered, try Dexter Drake. He get's to look at an extra spell or two per game. And look at is about all he gets too. With but 5 sanity, he can't even cast very many of them.

Hejin57 said: Hey everyone. Hejin here again. Quick question. Since I've opened AH, I've been playing a few two-player games with my bro. Now, we're newbies and all, but we seem to have problems sealing all the gates before the Great Old One awakens. Now, I don't know if we're just doing something wrong, or the game is just hard with 2 people, but I realize we'll automatically lose against GOO like Azathoth. There's nothing wrong. You will have trouble sealing gates with 2 players. One of my games lasts about 15 or so turns. That means each investigator has 15 turns to do his stuff. With two players, that's 30 investigator turns. It will take 18 turns just to go through six gates. It will take 30 turns just to gather enough clue tokens. Of course, other things like Tomes, beginning clues and Spells may shorten some of these, but not always. Then you may be using/wasting them on fighting monsters. Sealing with 2 can be done, but it's not easy. Your best chance is with Azathoth because he doesn't interfere with you much and he has 14 Doom Tokens. Sometimes you can seal a gate or three and close the rest. Still it's tough. Hejin57 said:We close gates left and right, but usually we only get about a total of 5 trophies between us before the GOO is released. So far, we barely beat Shub-Niggurath and Yig, but lost against Nyarlhotep because of the fact his modifier was so low I couldn't roll. Any help on my gate problem/question? Play 2 investigators each. And remember there are 3 victory conditions. Sealing's not the only one.

Conejo said: the interpretationand thus the way we play Charles) is rather simple any allies that have been returned to the box are fair game for him whenever he would gain an ally. if you encounter Ruby Standish at the TSL, but her card has been removed, you still get her. if you go to Ma's Boarding House and gain an ally, you may choose from the deck or from the "returned to box" deck. the intent seemed as clear as Ashcan Pete's ability to pull from either the top or bottom of decks (you have two choices whenever you have a choice). That's how we interpreted him at first. And boy is he boring. 1) The rule you are breaking that isn't referred to in Charlie's rule is the game rule that limits the game to 11 allies. Of course, if you incorporate the 11 ally limit, as many have, then you are creating a process that isn't called for. 2) Then you have to decide (interpret) that the term "gain" is the same as the term "take" and FFG was just sloppy in their rule writing instead of "intending" to use "gain" as its used else where and 3) that they mistakenly misused their tense. In other words, the come up with this clear intention, you have to posit three errors in one short but complex sentence. This is not to say you may not one day be declared correct. It amazes me that FFG, if they intended Charlie to work your way they wouldn't have written: Any Phase: Charlie may take Allies that are otherwise out of the game (have been returned to the box) even if doing so exceeds the 11 card Ally limit. Also your interpretation allows Charlie to take Professor Rice, the main over the top ally, if he every buys an ally from Ma's since any allies are fair game to him. Conejo said: i do have to say that the context of the ability to the rest of the game wouldn't lead me to believe that you just gain all discarded allies immediately. Of course I never said that he gains all discarded allies, nor do I think anyone else has. Neither does the rule. Discarded allies are returned to the Ally deck. Allies removed from the game are returned to the box. For example, if Duke is used, it is not returned to the box. (By the way, I have no idea HOW Duke restores Stamina by being discarded. I am reminded of a story I read long, long ago (maybe by Jack London) about a man about to freeze to death, who cuts open his beloved dog and puts his hands inside of the dog to prevent them from freezing.) The game mechanic that puts ally cards into the box is the Terror Level, which Charlie not uncoincidentally is able to prevent. And now a question. How does the "context of the ability" indicate Charlie does not gain each ally as is returned to the box? The immediate context of his ability is that Charlie is a politician and that he can prevent allies from being returned to the box by keeping the Terror Level down. This puts a politician at a moral dilemma. How cool and contextual is that!! This interpretation only breaks one rule. That Charlie doesn't gain all the allies that are returned to the box at setup. This is clearly over the top. However it uses all the terms in Charlie's rule by their standard meanings and and correct tense. To be clear again: I'm not really saying my interpretation is corrrect. It's just no more wrong that any other interpretation, it uses all the words of Charlie's rules as written except for the setup exception, uses the immediate context creatively as I hope FFG did and most importantly, is a lot more fun. I also maintain it is not out of balance. Though if Charlie does somehow end up with all 11 allies because the terror level went very high, he'd really have an awesome army and could have some stats in double digits. We've played Charlie about a half dozen times under this rule and he's never gained more 4 allies. Of course, we have not intentionally gone out to maximize him either by letting the terror level climb. The main abuse would probably occur if Glaaki were the Old One but being overrun by Servants of Glaaki is sort of self-limiting as is being devoured when the terror level reaches 10.

thorgrim said: Turambar said: I think you are misreading the past tense of the statement into present tense. It doesn't say Charlie may gain allies when they are returned to the box. It says Charlie may gain allies that have (already) been returned to the box. Though I don't think this question will actually be decided grammatically, the phrase "have been returned" is actually a present tense, not a past tense. Precisely it is present perfect passive, which means the act is completed in the present by someone else (as opposed to the object itself completing it, ie, a card cannot return itself to the box). http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_passive.html The past form would be "had been returned". There are other issues, so again, I don't think the answer is determined gramatically and every solution offered breaks one rule or another as far as I can tell. The main other issue, IMO, is the term "gain". Allies are taken, but sanity, stamina and clue tokens are gained. Sometimes these gains are passive. A clear description of Kane's ability could have been written at the time. Too bad a clear description had not been written. We all could have gained from it, but now we must take what we have or simply return Kane to the box if we draw him to prevent confusion. He's not an impressive investigator IMO (unless you wildly interpret that he gains all allies that are returned to box which includes all extra allies (up to 23) after the official 11 are chosen. (Kane comes into existance on phase 4 of the set up and the Ally deck is created on phase 6 of the setup.)) I think someone said there are 32 interpretations of Kane's ability. I say there are zero interpretations that don't break a rule that isn't mentioned in his special ability.