mageith
-
Content Count
733 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by mageith
-
-
From the FAQs:
A: An open gate replaces the location where it opens, so while
the gate is open, there is no closed location... -
Tibs said:
I give Mary 3 clues to start, but I don't give any of the other characters any bonuses, because I feel that there aren't any who need a boost.
But there are a lot of characters that people feel are a little too overpowered. If I were to use house rules, I'd probably use them thus:
- Mandy Thompson: her re-roll only rolls failed dice when she uses it on herself; if used on another investigator, it re-rolls all the dice.
- Wendy Adams: She cannot become Deputized, as she is so inclined to do from starting a game with an Elder Sign. Why is the Sheriff giving a car and a gun to a kid? Leave it to the adults who are generally not viewed as game-winners.
- Daisy Walker: her sanity-spell ability is too powerful. I'd like it better if she could only use it once per turn, like having the 7 Cryptical Books. Two Shrivellings and she loses no sanity? Please.
I do the same or similar modifications to these three. Mandy is very similar, but even for her I only give a normal re-roll. You are too kind.
Wendy: Deputy rule is very thematic. In addition, I tie her elder sign to her automatic evade. Everyone who first played her thought that's how it worked anyway. After she dumps her elder sign, she becomes more normal.
Daisy: Again similar. Once per phase she can read a tome or cast a spell with one less sanity cost or loss. Also she no longer has the Livre. I give her Necronomicon instead. Now there's a book! Actually I don't see why she has the spell casting ability at all. Now we really need a tome reader who can do it while both chewing gum and carrying her books. In other words, with one less Movement cost and 1 less sanity cost. Then give her a random unique tome to begin with.
Dexter. Loses one random spell and he gets to choose one spell. The problem with this (and with real Daisy) is if some inexperienced person gets them. It's a real game slower.
Vincent: He can cure 1 Stamina to anyone in the same town he is in.
Amanda: Apparently she does better than most think she does. I'd probably just let her choose two skills from four (instead of 3) and the beginning.
Jim Culver: I let him demand a green otherworld encounter. Also, as long as he has his magic trumpet he gets +3 vs undead for both horror and combat. I've played him twice with these rules and he has yet to even meet an Undead.
Sister: I just let her keep her Blessing without rolling. I like the added complication mentioned earlier that that's only for her original blessing. However, everyone who's ever drawn her thinks this is too good so I let them pay a clue token if they want to.
Discussion question: Who are the most par investigators? That is, which ones were made just right?
-
1193 games. 32.9% used Kingsport. Only 19 games had any rifts open. That's less than 5%. I had 4 of them and Tibs had more than me.
Interesting.
It's interesting to me that nearly 1/3rd of games use Kingsport and that the rifts are so fearsome that we keep them very well undercontrol.
Almost as many have been Changed (17) as have seen a rift in action.
Tibs Thanks for the reports. I look forward to them!
-
Iif you're unable to bless Rex by the fifth turn you're not trying hard enough. Honestly, it's not wasting turns if you're using them to pick up 8-10 clue tokens.I was using your terms "wasting turns". Maybe I misunderstood. With my method of character selection Rex doesn't and probably won't get much action.If you play with a cooperative team, blessing Rex shouldn't be a problem, and after all, AH is supposed to be a cooperative game. I think I've only used Rex to bless himself once (this was before I knew that you could use South Church to bless other players— heh, two years of owning the game and I'd never read the box all the way through). And drawing the rumor that makes you sacrifice a blessing... Seriously? What are the odds of that? If that's a real concern of yours, just make sure you close two gates at the beginning of the game ::laughter::
Concern? not really. I was just telling the story of the last time we seriously tried again to use Rex.I think the real question for you is *why* did Rex get into trouble? He should've been carrying no or one items and avoiding high risk unstable locations. And if he gets knocked out, he's proably better off taking an injury or madness than losing half his clues. Yeesh...Why do any of us get in trouble? I think he was going to church with his own gate.
Our policy IS to take madness/injury cards. Sometimes we get carried away. I wasn't playing Rex that game. Someone else was.Assuming that a game lasts 16-18 turns and you use Rex to seal two gates (6 turns), you still probably gather 8-14 extra clue tokens by playing him (i.e. he can seal gates faster, and the other players can seal gates faster too, because he makes clue token frequency higher by requiring a team to pick up less of the clue tokens because his pickups are worth more). So, if you ask me, there isn't the slightest question about whether he's in the top third or the bottom third.Me either! According to Tib's stats he's at the lower end, too 58%.
Sorry for the formatting. I can't figure out how to get rid of the gray.
-
Solan said:
Is this at all unusual, or have the rest of you had equally extreme experiences with Daisy?Daisy is probably the best. I use her with Summon Shantak. I rarely play her any more though because she's so good, there's not much challenge. She can easily seal 3 gates in a four player game. Only Wendy challenges her for the top spot. Mandy's third.
It was interesting to hear about here combat exploits though. I've never used her that way.
-
Mageith, I clearly require instruction from the two of you in fighting Yibb if you've been able to beat him in a four player final fight without spending the whole game solely gearing up to fight him. First, the problem of his clue token modifier; how do you manage to pick up all the Clues with the five clue token limit per Investigator? You do leave Clue tokens on the board if the Investigator doesn't have room for them, correct?
Second, HOW do you manage to get eighty-eight successes when you only have nine to sixteen rounds to do so, and at most five clue tokens per Investigator to help you? Clue tokens which can't even be used to keep an Investigator from being Devoured from Yibb's attack, since Focus is NOT a skill?
Third, how do you keep your Investigators alive, considering the average Focus and inability to use Clue tokens to affect that roll?
I only remember four games against Yibb. He uttterly cleaned our clocks the first time. We left too many clue tokens down. I think it was -8 combat modifier. That was similarly true in the last game against him. It was at a recent convention and the players weren't picking up enough clues.
In the second game and 3rd games, we concentrated on picking up clues. Yes, we left clues when we went beyond 5 and the players were more inclined to use them to save their measly lives than usual. In the second game we lost no investigators at all. All had high focus, as I recall, and we played with Wilson, Little Emily's favorite investigator and so he made it into about 1 in 4 games. I'm not sure why you say 9 to 16 rounds. The way I read it, the rounds are unlimited as long as the investigator survives and Wilson rolls four dice. In the 2nd victory, Wilson was also present but some (maybe all) of the other investigators probably were devoured. Anyway, whenever I see Yibb as fearsome, I am not sure why. I fear his Evade difficulty more than anything, but after I discovered Wendy's and Daisy's awesome evade ability it was easy. Now it almost feels like cheating if I use them. Wilson's also good at sneaking.
Another factor is that we play a certain campaign mode the allows us to use our best investigators over again, especially toward the end. We randomly determine investigators and GOO's. As the GOO's get sealed or closed against, they are removed from the pile of GOO's. As the Investigators get devoured, for any reason, they get removed. Usually the campaign comes down to about 7 investigtors (Wendy, Daisy and Wilson were among that group in the first two campaigns) before the last GOO is put away. Each campaign is made a little tougher. We lost the third one pretty badily. Over half the GOO's still survived.
So Yibb vs an average group with average focus and average sneak abilities will have more problems. I guess I was lucky with the mix of investigators.
Mageith, I agree that strain and distraction is a big part of Arkham. I propose that the strain and distraction added by hunting down Tulzscha's Cultists is an enjoyable addition to the game, especially if you don't have any good Sneakers. I must admit, though, that I don't use Tulzscha right now.
We don't use Tulzscha a lot, but again, some of our favorite investigators are great at passing evade checks. I think Speed and Sneak are much more important than brute strength. We pass out two investigators and choose the one we want. I always choose movement over fighting ability. I've convinced most of my group of this too.
-
Avi_dreader said:
Also, Rex doesn't *need* help. It's useful if someone can get him help. But while he's waiting for someone else to bless him, he'll probably be gathering eight to ten clues. If no one can help him, he can just pop into a gate and waste a couple turns until he can seal it (granted, he's not the best for solo games, but still, if you can get that curse off, he could put up a mean fight).Of course, that's one of his better strategies, but your phrase "waste a couple of turns" is exactly my point. An investigator only gets about 16-18 turns in a game. If your wasting a couple turns sitting on a gate and using (wasting) a couple of clue tokens (also equal to a turn), Rex becomes very inefficient. I'm not saying is not playable and he's also not the worst investigator, but I'd put him in the bottom 25%. It's even a waste of a turn (and a game point) for another investigator to go to the church and bless him--and that's just to bring him up to everyone else. He does have a very excellent other special rule about gathering an extra clue and he essentially has five more (I think or maybe 10) extra character points to make up for his curse.
I'm impressed with you guys you like him and even think he's a benefit to the party. I suppose it all evens out in completely random draws which the game is designed to use. IMO he just evens out the investigator pool in Kingsport and is designed for you masochists
who like a tougher game and a challenge.I've made my own Injury and Madness cards. I think I'll add masochism to the Madness deck.
Maybe the rule will be subtract one from every skill check forever.The last time he was played, I promised the player that I (Wendy) would seal a gate right away and bless Rex and that Rex should gather clues as fast as possible in anticpation. Wendy did got her gate trophey. then we drew the rumor that requires a blessing be sacrificed. Then Rex ran into trouble and used up all his clues. I don't think he ever got blessed in that rather short game. It's just hard for Rex to stay out of trouble inour games.
-
I disagree, Mageith. Lily is certainly good, but I wouldn't put her at the very top level; she's not equal to Mandy, Jacqueline and Wendy. The two Kingsport characters I don't care for are Luke the Dreamer and Tony the Bounty Hunter. I don't have a problem with either one of them thematically (in fact I like both of their backstories), but mechanically Tony's three sanity and lack of a starting weapon (unlike Micheal and Mark) make him decidedly inferior in my book. As for Luke, I have simply had terrible luck with him whenever I've chosen him.
Actually I think I said, she's close. No, she is definitely not top top notch, but above average even with the harshest interpretation of her rule.
I play with four Investigators as well, Mageith, and I'm not sure how it is possible to beat Yibb in final combat even if you have picked up all of the clue tokens off the board (hard to do with the limitation, Kinsport and Dunwich); can you really score eighty-eight successes before the Final Battle card "The End of Everything" comes up?
mmm. Done it twice. I see the stats show him as tough too. He creamed me the first time I played him, but never lost since at home with my main group. We play a format where once we've beaten the GOO he goes on the bottom and well, Yibb's been on the bottom a lot. One of the convention games two weeks ago lost really bad to him, however. Six players and 8 clues on the boards (Kingsport and Dunwich), so we didn't last long. But mostly we go for the seal or close on those GOOs!
And you don't find it a bit of a distraction and a strain on your resources to have to hunt down Tulzscha's elusive -3 Cultists? It can be done, of course, but my experience is that it requires some effort, especially if you have no character whose sneak can go above three.
There's always strain and distraction. That's why I play AH. I guess I've always had the right characters. Catching them is the hard part. Usually we just keep an eye on them and if they get close to an elder sign we get 'em. Never played Tulzscha with Hastur though.
So your group sees Rex and Lola as below average? Wow, differing perspectives! Here's why I like Lola: First, she has four Stamina and Six Sanity, my favorite ratio. Second she has a reasonable amount of money, $6, and two clue tokens. She starts with one of everything except an ally. She has potential movement five, another big plus, and her fight goes up to four while still retaining two will. Her ability to discard a Skill should be used every turn until she has one of the really good ones, such as Mythos Lore or Disguise. Finally, I love her backstory.
I've played Rex about 4 times and others have played him and we just can't seem to get him blessed very early and when we do the clues have pretty much dried up and so two times zero is zero. It seems he gets a bunch of clues early on and then gets into a situation where he has to use them up. Lola usually gets her great skill early on and we don't do any more with her. Only once can I remember ever getting two skills with her. At a recent convention I played 11 or 12 games all but one with 6 players, so that's about 120 character draws Lola never found action and Rex was chosen once and the player (experienced) said he was the worst he ever played. They always were almost the worse of a field of two. But then Mandy got turned back once and so did Wendy. A good percentage of the players were first or few timers, so what do they know?
Darrell found lots of action as did Wilson and Michael. -
Solan said:
New Investigators: Lily Chen the Martial Artist, Wendy Adams the Orphan, Lola Hayes the Actress, Daisy the Librarian, Luke the Dreamer, Rex Murphy the Reporter, Charlie the Politician, and Tony the Bounty Hunter. There are a couple I don't especially care for, but the others are top notch. They did it right here.I wasn't saying Rex isn't playable, but I am wondering what I am missing if 6 of the Kingsport adventures are top notch. I agree that Wendy and Daisy are 2 of the top three.
The others can be good, but not top notch, but their rules are in question: Lily, Luke and Charlie. (Maybe Lily comes close to being top notch, but I don't really think so. Self healing is really nice though.).
I don't see Lola, Rex and Tony anything to write home about. Just average (which of course all investigators should be).
My group, in fact, considers both Rex and Lola as below average. (I always pass out two investigators, a boy and girl). They pick one and the other goes on top for the next game. Rex and Lola spend lots and lots of time top along with Sister--until someone (usually me) feels sorry for them and lets them join in the games.
-
Mythos Cards: Kinsport has some nasty Mythos cards, including gate bursts and an excellent distribution of gate openings. Two of the three Rumors are exceptionally tough, easily on the level of Terrible Experiment and Good Works Undone in terms of difficulty, reward and punishment. A strong thumbs up in this category.
I haven't noticed this.
New Investigators: Lily Chen the Martial Artist, Wendy Adams the Orphan, Lola Hayes the Actress, Daisy the Librarian, Luke the Dreamer, Rex Murphy the Reporter, Charlie the Politician, and Tony the Bounty Hunter. There are a couple I don't especially care for, but the others are top notch. They did it right here.
Which ones don't you care for? Lily and Wendy are two of the very best anywhere. I'd almost say too good. Nobody knows how Charlie works and maybe not Luke. The others are OK. Rex is really a needy investigator meaning he needs help from someone else to get going.
New AO's: This one is a bit more mixed. I really like Eihort and Atlach-Nacha is a great challenge. Yibb-Tistill I loathe, as this AO is simply too hard. 11 doom token track, Investigators can have a maximim of five Clue tokens at one time, two successes for an evade check AND double the normal number of doom tokens if it comes down to a final fight? That's just ridiculous. Y'golonac isn't as bad, but a final fight with him is still a little too challenging in my opinion. Compare this to Duwich, where every AO is at least good, and this category rates mediocore.
Eihort is a great concept but too random in a game where randomness is king. Atlach and Yibb I've beaten about 3 out of 4 times each. In fact, Atlach is where I learned that gate closing is more than just a viable victory condition. Yibb is like Hastur to me. It's easy to pick up all the clues even with his limitation. On the other hand, the Old Ones are all reasonably difficult and mostly fun to play against. I usually play with 3 or 4 investigators, if that makes a difference.
Heralds: I can't see using Ghroth for any AO except Azathoth. Like Yibb, he's just too powerful. Tulzscha, on the other hand, is terrific, doing exactly as Kevin claimed: turning Cultists from wimpy monsters to dedicated foilers of the Investigators' plans. I especially like the idea of using Tulzscha with Yig, Eihort or Chtulhu. So one good, one bad, equaling another mediocore rating.
Ghroth is uninspired. Adding two clue tokens is powerful but its also boring. Tulzscha cultists have never eaten an elder sign. We kill them as soon as possible. I rarely use either.
Guardians: I was skeptical about these at first, but after playing with them I've changed my mind. Basic-Dunwich-Kingsport is a tough combination and a Guardian can provide needed assistance. Oddly, Nodens has the least effect on the game. I figured that honor would go to Bast, but a Bast token can make a lot of difference to the Investigagor who has it. Hypnos, of course, has the greatest effect and probably should only be used with the tougher AO's. The Guardains are a good addition to the game, in my opinion.
In our last game Bast made a big, big difference keeping the monsters off the investigators. I've noticed that Hypnos' clues often go begging. In the first game I played with Nodens we had a pet Nightgaunt that took us everywhere. Since then, not so good.
Unique Items: Many of these are quite good, especially the new Elder Sign!
???? You mean just an additional one?
Monsters: The four unique monsters-Gnoph Ka, Ghast, Werewolf and Tcho-Tcho Priest-aren't the equal of Dunwich's five unique monsters. Still, this is the only complaint I have with the Kinsport creatures. As a whole they make for an excellent addition to Arkham and the two new Masks, The Skinless One and the Shadowy Figure, are arguably the two best Masks in the game.
I think the monsters raised the average strength signficantly! I looked at them a while back.
Kingsport itself-This is probably the focus of most people's criticism of the Kinsport expansion. The board istelf is very safe, which can actually be a detriment if you like challenge and danger. The rift mechanic virtually necessitates stationing somone in Kinsport and duty there can be a bit bland, not to mention it puts the players down an investigator. The Strange High House in the Mists is too difficult to reach and the route to get there is too punishing. All that said, though, I do still enjoy playing with the board.
My experience is a bit difference. When we play Kingsport, which is less and less now, he usually just ignore the rifts until one actually pops. If its late in the game, which it usually is, we still ignore it. I have yet to have more than one doom token added to the doom track from it. More monsters are fun, so no problem there. Only once have anyone been changed and that was because we forced a scenario for that too happen. Twice I've been captain, but by the time I've got enough blood, its not worth the trip and usually its not necessary.
Overall, a strong thumbs up. Not the equal of Dunwich, but certainly a worthy expansion in its own right.
I could have lived without Kingsport. The more little cards the better and the Epic Battle is a fine addition, but the board itself and the Rift mechanic is just to much work for little fun and/or danger.
-
They will make them. We will come.
The real question is will the sequels be as good? Elements of Kingsport are great, but not all of it. The Cult of the Black Goat is way out there. I could have easily lived without either of them.
However, I look forward to Innsmouth nevertheless. More encounters are always lovely.
I think separate games even if only tangentially related to Arkham Massachusetts is probably the way to go. Same investigators, same Old Ones but new adventures. The Arkham Horror concept is great and FFG does it very, very well. They'd be foolish to just stop.
-
It is the best game!
Little Emily and I ran 2 games at Dundracon near San Francisco last weekend. Somone stopped by and told me that there were at least 2 games going all the time. I know I ran or played in 11 or 12 of them. I'm still not sure if I played 4 or 5 games on Saturday.
Most of the games were 6+ and I had to turn people away several times. One time I didn't even get to play, but only gamemastered it. But that was fun too. Never had done that before.My grandson and his friend played in 2 of them. Couldn't get my son this time though. He played about 6 Agricola games.
-
Jake yet again said:
Not everyone has Kingsport. This is for the two streets in Arkahm that becomes aquatic. Personally I'd've prefer stickers, but I guess we could always make Bishops Brook Bridge Aquatic now.
And/or the Graveyard. On my first edition board it looks like the Miskatonic River goes right by it?
-
Baudejas said:
"Well, for one thing, I began to realize that when you draw a random encounter, there is a 50-65% chance that something bad will happen. Not might happen. Will. Your skills, equipment, and ability to make intelligent decisions are all basically forfeit when you draw an encounter card, because odds are you'll be worse off than before (and if something good happens, you'll rarely feel like you can take any credit for it). Certainly, this plays a big factor in the appreciable 'plans-gone-terribly-awry' effect I described above. But here's the problem: as an experienced player, you begin to realize that perhaps the most intelligent decision to make in Arkham Horror is not to have an encounter unless your reward is guaranteed before you draw the card. And the game lets you do this (see strategy description below).A lot of potential role-playing is lost once you realize that there isn't point in going for a walk in the woods if you're a photographer, robbing the bank if you're a gangster, going to the boarding house if you're the salesman, etc. You can think up these decisions ad infinitum and none of them will make sense given the way the game works. The random encounter cards don't know you're an author or a magician or a psychologist. And more importantly, they don't give you room to behave as if YOU know. If you're not the role-playing type, but instead are simply curious, a time or two through the game will teach you that, no, you don't actually want to know what will happen if you go hang out at the Library. Curiosity kills the cat in this game, and the cat doesn't have a say in the matter."
Now that sucks! I like exploring... Is there any way to change the things written above??? (or maybe its not that bad?)
I believe his stats are off. Overall there's about a 1/3rd chance of benefit, no effect and bad effect. Some particular locations are worse and better than that. There is no location where its all bad or all good. In encounters, luck is the most used skill and Lore is second (a distant second).
Use Darrell. He always gets two chances at a location. Kate prevents the worst effect--a gate and monster. Try to keep your luck and/or sneak up when you have an encounter. Don't take unnecessary chances if you have an "If.." encounter. The motorcycle guy is also great. Good sneak, good speed, comes with a weapon and whiskey. Pay a $1 in the highly unstable locations which might be closer to the reviewers stats.
-
Nope, the rules say that "Any time an investigator ends his movement in a location that contains Clue tokens, he may immediately take any or all of those Clue tokens." It doesn't say anything about taking Clue tokens ends your movement, it just says you have to have ended your movement to take the clues at that location.
Also, check out the section on pages 6 & 7 regarding what happens in the movement phase: the section on how monsters affect your movement happens earlier in the phase than the section on taking clues, plus, yeah, Kevin said so, therefore monsters first, then clues.
It's always a problem when the author FAQs or expresses an opinion that clearly contradicts the rules he wrote. As a rules writer, I think I know what happened. When he wrote the rules, he had a reason for writing what he did, or he changed some rule someplace else and didn't catch the impact on the rule he'd written earlier.
Recently I carefully read the rules with a my fine toothed comb and I believe that Combat is not really part of the movement phase. It's a separate phase all together (or separate set of activies, or an interruption, since no term is given). Combat interrupts three different phases. It ends the movement phase (IMO). We play that you have to deal with a monster if you haven't already dealt with it. It's the logical approach and that's the only way we can go since the rules and opinions clearly contradict one another. But I rarely make rulings. I let players just play the game like they think it should be played. For example, if they are moved to another location with a monster, they deal with the monster because it's logical, even if it is the Arkham encounter phase, before they pick up the clue even though they can't or don't need to do either strictly following rules and/or FAQ and/or interpretations by the author himself.
Also I think part of the reason we aren't getting any rules clarification from FFG is because the game is meant to be experienced and so we do what makes sense to us at the time. Of course, there's limitations on that. Some interpretations are so outlandish, they have to be fought. Little Emily's good at finding those.
I remember getting the game at home and finally reading the rules myself. I was especially impressed with the FAQ in the AH rules. Almost all the rules questions were answered logically (or in my opinion by the clear intent) rather than the letter of rules. After five years in Warhammer's RAW* world, it was a relief.
*Rules as Written
-
zeb said:
mageith said:
To Zeb: The stat I always extrapolate is the chance of winning by seals/close vs. battle for each AO.
I think that Tibs already provides the chances of winning during Final Combat for each AO. But I can work out the other ways to win.
I use that stat to extrapolate my figures. What I am interested in the chances of winning by seals/closing when entering into a game with a particular GOO. If you look up higher in the thread you'll see my extrapolation. My extrapolation is not exact: It assumes every game is either a seal/close victory, a final battle victory or a final battle loss. Other wins and losses would be interesting.
-
The three worse investigators in the game are Vincent, Sister and Charlie Kane (as popularly played). I've always considered them a drag on a team. Time to reimplement my house rules to make them more playable.
Vincent can heal anyone in town if he's in town too. Sister doesn't lose her blessing and Charlie (well I won't mention what I do with Charlie).
Daisy Walker at 60% probably means most people haven't discovered her spell yet.
I'm kind of surprise to see Amanda and Jacqueline so high in helping their teams. Maybe not Jacqueline. She really saved us a lot of Mythos trouble in our last game.
To Zeb: The stat I always extrapolate is the chance of winning by seals/close vs. battle for each AO.
-
This was the revelation through Morgaln (sp?)
From the old "Kevin W's answers to rules questions" thread:
"The rules say that an investigator must fight or evade if they end their movement in an area with monsters. They also say an investigator may pick up clues in an area where they end their movement. In an area with both clues and monsters, may they pick up the clues before fighting the monsters, or must they defeat or evade all monsters before getting the clues?
Monsters first, then clues"
-
Morgaln said:
The rules directly state that you stand up instead of using movement points to move. Nowhere do the rules say you stand up instead of your movement phase; they state that you stand up instead of moving.However, casting spells is completely independent from your movement points, and have nothing to do with moving or not (you could also use them if you decide to stay at your current location voluntarily). If having no movement points means you can't use any other effect during that phase, why can you use those effects when you have movement points, if movement is all your movement phase consists of?
I don't think you are dealing with all the words.
" Instead, during the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands
the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator
is no longer delayed. "This tells what is allowed during the movement phase, ie. standing up. Nothing else. Instead of a movement phase, the investigator stands up. You can only do what the rules allow you to do.
But in light of an unofficial revelation in another ancient thread that Kevin intends that movement and combat are really part of the same phase, I retract my argument based on written words and defer to the author's intention.
-
Morgaln said:
From the old "Kevin W's answers to rules questions" thread:"The rules say that an investigator must fight or evade if they end their movement in an area with monsters. They also say an investigator may pick up clues in an area where they end their movement. In an area with both clues and monsters, may they pick up the clues before fighting the monsters, or must they defeat or evade all monsters before getting the clues?
Monsters first, then clues"
I'll spare you my opinion on "ending movement" and "end of movement phase", because it has been discussed enough as of late. We'll need to wait for official word on this.
This would be the logical way and apparently the "intention". Thanks. The question seems to be coming up a lot, so it would be nice to have something officially FAQ'd.
-
Frank said:
The Rules are actually quite clear that even when you are delayed you still have a movement phase. You don't get to take either of the standard movement phase actions (Arkham Movement or Outer World Movement), and presumably you can't take any special action that you would take instead of one of those actions (such as captain the White Ship), but you still have a movement phase. Any spell that you cast at a time other than one of those movement actions is totally and completely fair game.
Which, for example, is why you can still fight monsters while you are delayed, and why you can still cast Shriveling or Vision Quest while you are delayed.
-Frank
If the rules are quite clear, please provide the words that say an investigator can cast a Movement phase spell while delayed?
Here's mine:
"Delayed Investigators
During the game, certain effects can cause an investigator
to become delayed. When this occurs, place the
investigator marker on its side, indicating the delay.
Delayed investigators receive no movement points and do not move during the Movement Phase. Instead, during
the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands
the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator investigator
is no longer delayed. On the following turn, the
investigator will be able to move once again as normal.Seems to me the phrase beginning with the word "instead" means 'in place of the normal movement phase', the investigator may (only) stand up. Anyway, that's how we play it.
It seems to me that the above rule has three defintions of what happens to movement during delays
1) Has no movement points
2) do not move
3) Instead, stands the investigator up...to indicate end of delay.
I don't think it's a choice among the three, but all three parts apply
-
snacknuts said:
When you end your movement, you can collect all the clue tokens where you end up.If an encounter moves you to another location, does that count as ending your movement? Or does ending your movement actually mean "at the end of the movement phase"?
From pages 7 and 8.
"Picking Up Clues
Any time an investigator ends his movement in a location
that contains Clue tokens, he may immediately take
any or all of those Clue tokens. The investigator may not
take any Clue tokens if he merely moves through the
location and then continues his movement: He must end
his movement in the location containing the Clue tokens."Ending Movement does it.
Once your Arkham Encounter phase begins, your movement and movement phase is defintely over.
What's not clear to me is whether you have to engage monsters before you pick up the clues. Do you end movement and enter into combat, for example, or does the actual combat end Movement. In other words is "ending Movement" and "ending the Movement Phase" the same thing?
The prior paragraph reads this way:
"Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for
any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether
or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest
of his movement points and must remain where he is."It seems to me that "his movement is over" and "ends his movement" is the same thing but what's lacking is the term "phase" to make it crystal clear.
"Evading Monsters
Locations and street areas that contain monster markers
may affect an investigator’s movement. Each time an
investigator attempts to leave a location or street area
occupied by one or more monster markers, the investigator
must either fight or evade each of the monsters there
(see “Evading Monsters” and “Combat” on pages 14 for
more information). Likewise, if an investigator ends his movement in a location or street area occupied by one or
more monsters, he must fight or evade each such monster."Here if an investigator "ends his movement" (declares it ended?) (and the same phrase required to pick up clues above), then monster engagement begins. But since the investigator "ends his movement) according the first rules quote, s/he can pick up clues.
-
avec said:
Okay, thanks. By movement spells you mean spells that can be cast only during the movement phase: Vision Quest, Call Friend, Summon Shantak, etc?Delayed Investigators
During the game, certain effects can cause an investigator
to become delayed. When this occurs, place the
investigator marker on its side, indicating the delay.
Delayed investigators receive no movement points and
do not move during the Movement Phase. Instead, during
the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands
the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator
is no longer delayed. On the following turn, the
investigator will be able to move once again as normal.I say they can't be cast, but the rules above may fall short of actually saying that. Is receiving no movement points explaining what "do not move during the Movement Phase" or is it in addition? The Harsher the better?
-
Morgaln said:
I don't agree with that interpretation. When you combat a monster, your movement is over (meaning no more movement points) but you are still in your movement phase. Otherwise you couldn't pick up clues if there is a monster in the same location.Or "movement is over" might actually mean the movement phase is over.
"Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for
any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether
or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest
of his movement points and must remain where he is."I'd say "movement" and "movement phase" is the same.
Here is the defintion of Movement Phase:
"Picking Up Clues
Any time an investigator ends his movement in a location
that contains Clue tokens, he may immediately take
any or all of those Clue tokens. The investigator may not
take any Clue tokens if he merely moves through the
location and then continues his movement: He must end
his movement in the location containing the Clue tokens."This is news to me, bur from this is looks like you can pick up clues whether you defeat the monster or not. Maybe there's a FAQ that contradicts this? I'd say "end his movement" and "movement is over" is the same thing, no?
"During the Movement Phase, each player takes one of
the following two movement actions, depending on
whether his investigator is in Arkham or an Other World
(see “Game Board Breakdown,” page 21):
Arkham movement
or
OtherWorlds movement
The two types of investigator movement are described
below."Notice that there is no mention of combat. Combat appears to be a separate series of actions which is not a phase at all, since it can occur within any of three different phases. But once combat begins, Movement (and the Movement phase) is over.
"Eventually, all investigators have to face their fears and
do battle with the mythos. Whenever an investigator
enters combat with a monster, resolve the following
steps, in order."Note that an investigator "enters combat". Sort of like a between phases?
Question regarding the board of KH
in Arkham Horror Second Edition
Posted
Scientists Warn of Dimensional Rifts! Terror Level goes up 1.
There's only a 1/3rd chance per turn of a rift progress marker landing on a particular rift area. It's actually less than that because after there are 2 rpm on a track, it bounces off harmlessly. I've gone games where the rift doesn't show up until nearly the end. In addition, there's an enviroment that doesn't allow rift progress markers to be added and I think one that takes off a RPM. And its not even really that bad because a rift progress marker is not added unless the Mythos card is one of the six configurations. Strange sightings, for example won't add a rift progress maker.
Once a rift is out there's a 1/3rd chance of it moving and bringing out a monster. There's a 1/6th chance of it moving and adding a doom token. I've never had a rift add two doom tokens.
The quickest a rift can come out on its own is in four turns. You'd really have to unlucky to have that.
My games last an average of 18 turns. So by the time a rift gets out there under normal circumstances the game will be probably be half over. However if you completely ignore the rifts a new rift might be coming out every 2 or 3 turns after the first one So the whole thing could mushroom.
Most of my rifts come about through a Mythos card that immediately brings out a rift.
If you intend to manage the rifts, then it will probably take investigators a total of about 8 of their turns turns to do so. If you rotate investigators then add another two turns of movement per investigator to and fro Kingsport.
On the other hand, there are a higher percentage of friendly encounters there and a goodly number of allies to be had.
If a rift does open, I usually try to close it. That will take four turns plus traveling time. It's a good job for the Deputy. He comes and goes fast and doesn't risk his patrol wagon unless he has a monster encounter.
Once a monster gets into Kingsport it just goes around in circles unless if flies or greens back to Arkham somehow. It doesn't count against the Outskirts or monster limit.
In short, Kingsport is mostly a distraction. Keep the main goal in mind of sealing and closing gates. Once in a great while the rifts will get out of hand. If you are playing a game with 5 or more players, then I'd probably spend more time managing the rifts. If you are playing a game with 3 or less players, good luck anyway.