jgt7771 said: I'm not saying that FFG shouldn't have paid more attention to the insane possibilities our diseased minds could come up with. But y'all could cut Daisy some slack. She was tested in a vacuum, and the real world is sharp and painful. We should cut slack because FFG didn't playtest her fully? I'm an advocate for using limited expansions, but I only carry that as far as the Mythos cards. All the spells, encounter cards, monsters, etc. are always in play (well except the 3 BG dark young). They are not part of the mythos. I'll check on your theory about only Daisy with KP and base game. I still think unlimited reduction of spell cost would still be broken, perhaps just not as broken. Clearly her librarian inspiration was to be a tome user. Why she got the spell suing bonus and why they thought unlimited was a good idea is still beyond my puny mind powers to understand. Then on top of it, give her choice of any spell? Wow, three strikes and she should've have been out. She's still able to cast two shrivelings per turn at no cost. Storm of Spirits is broken. It's one of my favorite spells. It's like a +5 to spell users. I feel guilty using it, but not guily enough excise it yet.

avec said: Actually I guess Gloria only gets an advantage from her Psychic Sensitivity power 50% of the time (i.e., when she chooses the second card drawn over the first). Still much better than Jim. Doesn't Jim have a 1/3rd chance of pulling a green in a non green world? Now I see, you probably said 1/6th because he's only in a non-green world half the time? The other off color is discarded. Perhaps strategically he could choose non green worlds leaving other investigators to go through the greener pastures increasing the value of his power. Jim also has other powers vs. undead, which for me seldom come into play. I think Gloria always has an advantage by drawing two cards, even if she rejects the second card. However, I am not impressed by her skill in comparison to Darrell's. She's only going to be in an outer world about 4 times in a 4 investigator game. My investigators always head to the Other World when they have enough clues and usually make it through and seal their gate (I'd say more than 90% of the time) no matter who it is. Gloria is probably better than Jim, but they're both below average.

Wendy Adams is 3 points over! That seems like a lot, even for a character with lower maximums. Daisy Walker is 1 point over!!! A character who has an arguably broken special ability and obscene starting possession does not deserve this bonus. What is up? Weird? I used to feel like I was cheating when I used them. Plus daisy's such a time eater as player search the spell deck. Mysteriously she no longer comes up in the random mix. Probably due to the hand (tentacle) of some Old One. Wendy still appears in the two choices of a novice player. Most of the time, she's rejected in favor of the male choice. I don't think FFG is going out of their way to balance characters. Besides the different stats are not all equal are they? Speed is certainly more important than Luck (and maybe everything else). Rita Young, for example is an excently designed investigator, maybe the best, counting only stats. Her power is next to useless. I all the times I've used her, I only used it once and (as I recall) it wasn't that beneficial even then. Still, she's one of my favorites because everything works together so well, especially speed. Maybe it's the retainer, which is undervalued in the character makeup IMO. The balance of characters is in their random selection. Though I do think Daisy was just a mistake or a failure of playtesting? Thanks for the work. BTW, how do you make the little circle bulletpoints?

I tried several things in photoshop and strange eons but I can't get it any bigger. try clicking on the link below the picture. I think you can resize that. Text of the Chosen cards which are the key changes. The other cards are pretty similar to the current Cult Encounters. The Chosen One: You stand before the the stone altar, knife in hand. Will it be another's blood, or your own that you shed? Roll 2 dice. Choose 1 die and lose that much Sanity. Then lose Stamina equal to the other roll. If you are devoured, the game is over the Old One is repulsed. If you are still both sane and conscious, the Ancient One Awakens and the Final Battle begins. The Chosen: You stand before the the stone altar, knife in hand. Will it be another's blood, or yours that your shed? Roll 2 dice. Choose 1 die and lose that much Sanity. Then lose Stamina equal to the other roll. If you are still both sane and conscious, the game is over and the Ancient One is repulsed. If you are devoured, the Ancient One Awakens and the Final Battle begins. @ Avi: the reason its a 9 track is because its not an old one, but a herald. Once the track reaches 9 the herald goes away and nine doom tokens are added to the Old One's sheet. I posted the Witch Cult first because it is the most popular at my house. It's the most popular because people like the picture. According to the place I stole it from, its a real picture of real women who (think) they are witches. I think its funny.

thecorinthian said: Kingsport waters itself down. It takes ages to do anything, and all it does do is provide additional monsters and Doom tokens. At least the Dunwich horror has a unique threat (the Horror itself) which can't appear any other way. The way it is built isn't "pure genious". It's a timing mechanism which is (if anything) a bit messy and fiddly, since it involves small non-reversible counters occupying particular positions on the board. And stop going on about Innsmouth! Yeah, it's probably going to be good! But you haven't played it yet! It might be rubbish! Besides I'm sure Innsmouth will be watered down. But then again, that would be thematic.

kroen said: but there's no reason for her to pay back the loan, as worse case scenario you don't gain money in a turn... and then you're stuck with the loan for the rest of the game, keeping useless track of it. We score points, so unpaid loans reduce our point value, though we don't panic over it. Usually Jenny can pay back her loan but not always. Our average 4 player game only lasts 18 turns and if he spends all of her first money, she sometimes runs out of turns. There's more month left at the end of her money. The Deputy is less likely to pay back the loan, but at least she won't be losing all her items or spending being forced to trade them away before she goes to the poor farm.

kroen said: Who is emily? :/ Unless you mean Wendy, and Wendy can't take a Bank Loan... Also, even as Jenny I don't take a Bank Loan... what's the point? she has enough money as it is, and I hate keeping track of uselss things. Little Emily is my daughter (she's in the barely readable, grayed out signature line). Yes, Little Wendy is too young to take out a bank loan soher first move is always to visit Hibb's roadhouse. Enough money? Is there ever enough money? That's starts her with $22 for her next stop, the Curiositie shop. Then her next several turns are spent shopping. Eventually she'll be able to even pay back the loan.

I always do. Either playing, dreaming or write little Arkham Advertiser articles. Unfortunately they're not all the vivid. Maybe that's a good thing.

Our Jenny always takes out a loan and sometimes Little Emily will since she always intends to be the Deputy. $5 for a retainer on the first turn would be too useful. I'd always do it. I'd probably pay up to $7 or $8 (if I had it or borrow it from another player). Especially if I could go back and get another one, if the first one wore out. After that, the gamble gets too high. I do think there should be more jobs that earn money in this game. Or at least a Mythos that gives everybody back their starting money. Money is overrated, of course. After you get it, you have to take a turn or too to spend it. Money at the beginning is great. After that it usually just piles up.

At a convention once, played 4 games in a row starting at 9 am and ending at 2 am the next morning. I think I probably ate a few times, but not long. All were big games too, of at least 6 players. That's 17 hours. I was down a few personal Sanity tokens when I finally went to sleep. Only to play 3 the next day.

Rezza said: I've had an idea! Now, it could be a load of rubbish as i'm new to AH (only played twice so far) so I don't have the experience yet to know if this would be feasible or not. I was thinking of ways to make the Mythos threat escalate and slowly build over time. How about tieing the Mythos Phase into the number of Doom Tokens on the Doom Track? So in the first round there's 1 Doom Token so you draw a Mythos card if you roll a 1 (or 1-2) on the dice. When the Doom Track goes up to 2 you draw a card on a 1 or 2 etc. Probably on a roll of 1-2 with 1 Doom Token, 2-4 with 2 tokens would be better thinking about it or it could take forever! Like I said, i've no idea if this would horribly unbalance the game. Just wanted to see what people thought. I'm quite prepared to have my idea banished back to it's fitful slumber... How many investigators? You're not drawing a Mythos card for each investigator are you? I think the pacing problem most people have is the game starts slowly, builds up speed, but then as the gates get sealed, slows down again and the final turns are mostly just bookkeeping. Personally, I've never had a problem with this pacing. With the Dunwich Horror expansion, there's usually enough risk, even in the end game to keep me happy.

pittplayer said: It all boils down to that i like to explore for like 5 or 6 rounds and visit all the locations i want to and do some zany stuff having fun with it, i am not saying this is for everyone but it is more fun for me to explore then to focus on beating the game. That's because you are essentially playing a 4-investigator game which is the optimized number of investigators for the game which usually allows for some exploration risk. However 5-6 rounds per investigator is a lot of turns. Where do you go?

i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/mageith/cultencounters2.jpg i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/mageith/Witchcoven.png

Vitus_Prem said: If played lots of two player games, even though we usually decide to choose our investigators then... so it's almost always the joe - ashcan team.And I might add, we tend to win 75% (by sealing, of course) of the games, using no house rules (but heralds from time to time). Still, I have to admit, it's challenging, but that's no reason to cut down the mythos phases this extremely in my eyes... Well that's better than we do with our Mythos house rule. And its better than most people do with a normal four player game. (See latest stats below.) So I can see why you would think cutting the Mythos in half would be too easy. I do slightly better than below and the vast majority of my victories are seals or closing. But I know I wasn't doing that well in normal 3 investigator games, let alone 2 investigator games--we had way too many final battles. The random Mythos works well for us. So unless we find your secret, I imagine we'll keep on with it. There have been 1399 reported sessions: 62.8% were reported as victories: 459 Victories by seals 263 Victories by Final Combat 156 Victories by closing all gates 1 Victory by "For the Greater Good" mission • Team size vs. % won by sealing gates: 1 3.6% 2 24.6% 3 27.3% 4 37.8% 5 30.3% 6 45.2% 7 20.0% 8 33.3%

Vitus_Prem said: pittplayer said: mythos phase roll 123 no mythos phase roll 456 have a mythos phase makes the game more managable Oh. That really makes the game easy. Have you tried it? If you play 2 investigators will all the rules like there are four investigators, it's no easier than a four investigator game except you will definitely have a unified plan whichis often attainable in a normal game, is it not? If you play a 2 investigator game with no other rule change than half as many mythos phases, yes it will be usually be very easy and you'll probably get your fill of exploring Arkham, however.

lemmingsunday said: Mageith - Would you be willing to share your rewritten cult cards, and those cult scenarios? The cult scenarios sound totally cool. Thanks I would if I could. I can't figure out how to post stuff

Acebob said: I think that would make it too easy. If you think the game is too hard with just 2 players, I don't really know what to tell you. I've played many, many, games with just two players. Sure, sometimes Kingsport becomes a problem with two players, but I easy have the highest win-rate with just two players. I've done this for several games and it makes a good game for the two of us. Some of us don't count final battle wins as wins and they aren't as much fun for us or at least as satisfying. I agree playing two investigators with a skipped mythos is an optimized game, but its not more optimized than a regular four player game in most cases, unless you are using the really superior investiagors like Mandy, Wendy or Daisy and maybe a few others.

kroen said: Can't you just skip every 4th mythos or something?I think I'll just stick with the old fashioned way of playing 3 investigators which, when playing two board expansions count as 2. Still though, it'll be hard for 3 investigators to handle 3 boards. Sure. Old fashioned way? Wheneven a person plays more than one investigator, he's playing a house rule. Playing more than one investigator is always going to be easier than having the same number of players each playing one investigator. Mostly because you are going to have a unified plan that all one of you agree on. Same is true for playing one investigator three or so turns in a row by whatever method. Even more so, because if you happen to have a superior investigator, his superiority will shine through even more brightly. Randomization of the mythos takes away from the predictibility and therefore can make the game more like the old fashioned way. In addition, a large player game is much different than a small player game. Three or fewer investigators will more often than not end in a final combat. The fewer the investigators, the more likely it happens and the better chance there is of winning that combat. A large investigator game is more likely to end in a sealed gate victory because if it goes to a final battle, the larger number of investigators decreases the chances of a final battle victory. And its just easier to gather the requisite clues and more through the Other worlds. In addition, the tasks of the game can be more efficiently divided. So, in short, you get to decide which type of "old fashioned" game you want. It's all for the fun anyway.

PearlJamaholic said: i really like the idea of these stories but i have to wonder if it will in some way take away from the co-op alittle bit. players might be inclined to take care of their personal stories rather than work together on the big picture.......seems like these could be a bit of a distraction. either way i cant wait to play around with these stories. Anything that doesn't lead efficiently to the defeat of the Old One is a distraction. Killing monsters is usually a distraction, as is using a clue to pass a skill test. It's the distractions that make the game more interesting and difficult. If all the stories are like Jenny's, you can play it four ways. Pass it and increase your power incrementally. Many think that +1 speed/Lore for spending 5 clue tokens is not distracting enough. So FFG added a negative incentive for further distraction. In addition, there's the null choice. Don't let the terror level reach 3. But then monster killing becomes a little more distracting, though the terror level raises by other means. Finally you can choose to not even play the stories at all and leave them in the box. But I agree with you, I'm certainly ready to try them and I'm really excited about 8 more distracting Old Ones and 16 more investigators who have to learn to avoid the distractions.

kroen said: What do you mean playing 3 investigators and treating them as 4? and what this about randomizing the mythos? We often play with three investigators but ignore the Mythos using a 4 sided die on a 1. Over the game, then, the mythos comes, on the average, 3 out of 4 times, so its like playing a 4 investigator game with 3 investigators. As usual, all other aspects of the game (rumors, closing victory and monster limits) are treated as if 4 investigators were actually playing. I suggested randomizing the Mythos before to you and you said you said didn't like to do that. But if I were to play a single investigator game, rather than have a Mythos every 3rd or 4th turn, I'd roll a die and only have a mythos, on the averge, that same amount. For example, to play a single investigator as three investigators, I'd roll a die and only have a Mythos on a 1 or 2. As I said, I only tried it once, with Amanda, however and there was a lot of down time so I didn't finish the game. On three occassions I played 2 investigators and only had a Mythos on a 1,2,3 (half the time). We lost twice and won one. So that worked.

Doube post, please ignore.

Kroen wrote: I play 1 investigator that counts as 5 investigators, but because I'm playing with 2 board expansions the 5 counts as 4, meaning: I draw a mythos card every 5 turns; the monster/outskirts/gate limit is the limit for 4 investigators; I have only one upkeep per 5 turns; abilities that can only be used once per turn (such as Loe's Leadership ability) can only be used once per 5 turns; ... This highlights the problem with using one character multiple times. What you'll find out quickly is that the abilities of investigators really are significantly better or worse. Leo, for example is above average. But if you play it your way, it will be like playing five characters, four without any special ability at all. Kroen wrote: rumors always refer to 1 investigator (if I would refer them to 4 most would be impossible to complete even with the extra turns I have); Because you have only one upkeep, this might be true. When I've done it. (usually three investigators treated as four), I give them all an upkeep. Trying to keep it as close to the original as possible. So you've changed one rule (no upkeep), you'll need to adjust in other places. There may even be more because of unintended consequences. On the other hand, investigators without upkeep demands, like Luke, Daisy and many others will unscathed and will benefit from your rumor rule. BTW, when will be bring players Lost in Time and Space back, since they return on Upkeep? Upkeep spells will be next to worthless as wiill exhaust weapons. I think you are thinking of the rumors that add 3 of something per Mythos. They'd start with 12. Some will be easy and some would be hard depending on your investigator. For example, Nightmare pool (sanity) would easily be passed with an investigator with 7 sanity in three investigator turns and $4 but Riots (stamina) might be impossible under normal circumstances. Mistrust (exchange items for clues), is always difficult. Your rules would make them too easy, though, IMO. Kroen wrote: in the final battle, I count as one investigator, meaning 1 success per doom token and one attack per turn. Haven't tested it yet. Thoughs? I don't think it will be as easy as Avi thinks. But I don't think it will be very fun either. Sealing the first few gates will be fairly easy because you'll be able to gather essentially all the clue tokens, but there will be few monsters to fight and few other places to get clues. They'll be lots of down time--when you have not very much to do. You'll probably maximize the friendly locations, that reap clues and other goodies. In short, every choice will be five times more important than in a regular game. So if you make bad choices or a string of bad luck, you'll bet in trouble quicker and if you make good choices you'll get more stuff and the game will be easier. A lot of the difficulty will be based on your invesitgatgor choice. I tried a game with Amanda (most average?) the other day treating her as three investigators. It was boring and I stopped playing. I've played many games with three players, treating them as four and its always worked well. (I randomize the Mtyhos which you don't like, you said.)

Only because you asked: Black Goat is easily broken down into difficulty levels: Lowest to highest: Praises: Just gain a card when a hex monster is killed. If you add the BG monsters then about 1/6th of the monsters are hexed.* If you want to make a hex cup, then bring out the monsters as instructed for the Black Goat.* Hexagon monsters are not removed by gates.* Abundance: Play the extra monster part of the Black Goat. Pagan Rites: Finally, play the monster surge random death portion of the Black goat. (We never play that any more). Lord of the Woods: *I always have the Dark Young move like normal black bordered monsters. *We usually play the parts marked. Other variations: Corruption cards are not really that tied to the Black Goat as you demonstrate in your example. So sometimes we play you are corrupted if a moon monster is in the streets at the beginning of the Mythos Phase. I don't understand why killing monsters makes one corrupt? Not killing them and leaving them to threaten others seems more corrupting. Also, the chance of drawing red cards aren't threatening enough. Dam says he played 24 games and never once got into the red cards. So we limit the deck size. I've never drawn a red card under normal circumstances. So, I roll three dice. The largest and smallest are the green cards and the middle die is the red cards. The green cards go on top. That's an average of 10-11 cards instead of 32. Apparently from the typo in the game, originally only 8 cards of each were to be included. Howevver, the corruption cards are not that really such a great resource, IMO. They are hard to keep track of and as player/game master, it makes my work annoying. Most of the cards are just downers, though a couple actually have a benefit and so my group isn't very motivated to keep track of them. Wild Variations: I rewrote all the corruption cards to make them really corrupting (exhaust to regain 1 stamina, sanity and good things) and rewrote the Cult cards to give players a 2/16th chance to draw a card that gives a way interfere with the cult and banish the Old One. Even if an investigator draws one of these cards, s/he has less than a 33% chance of fulfilling the requirements. Also, in wikepedia there's a list of cults from the literature, so I made up scenarios with the different cults and have different locations for their cultic meetings and different things that cause corruption cards to be drawn. Each cult then is trying to summon a different Old One, but some times they don't get the one they want. Only because you asked. It would probably be more interesting if I knew how to post the Strange eons stuff. Oh well.

thecorinthian said: You're still high from sniffing the Kingsport packaging. Here are my predictions: - The Innsmouth board will not do much in most games, possibly unless you use a particular herald to accelerate things. - The expansion will include at least 1 deck of small cards which are required for every game in which expansion components are used, but which almost never actually appear. - There are be a handful of infuriating small cards (items or skills or allies) whcih require you to go and get some sort of small 'special' card in order to actually know what the effect is. - Devil's Reef and/or some of the Ancient Ones will involve lots of fiddly little counters which are insufficiently distinct from Rift, Rubble or Brood tokens. I hope I'm proved wrong. Then again, I suspect it will be a brilliant expansion.... thecorinthian said: anyway. At least one of your predictions is very probably wrong. No item cards are listed on the components. I think Kingsport showed us that FFG is now aware that many players are "mis" combining expansions and so I think Innsmouth will interact better than Dunwich. Heralds are a definite part of the new world of Arkham Horror. So it is likely that heralds will be necessary to take full advantage. I feel your pain. The last two expansions haven't proven to be something I couldn't have lived without. One of my group is probably on the verge of refusing to play Kingsport. Of course, she'll do anything to avoid taking a madness or injury card so maybe she's not into the full spirit of the game. Black Goat offered a mythos deck that was barely unlike any other. Then they offered a horribly difficult and too randomized herald, then they offered modification cards to make it easier again (or harder) that are pretty gross jumps in difficulty. Innsmouth apparently has a sadistic herald combo that will make the masochists like Dam really happy. On the other hand, maybe there's someone at FFG that acutally read this forum. Anyway I'm still hopeful and excited. Fiddly little counters are fine. Unreadable fiddly counters are less fine. When we do play Kingsport, I no longer ask the first player the description of the movement pattern. I just roll a six-sided die and randomize the rfit progress marker (same odds). I always sit right in front of the Kingsport rift markers for that purpose. Also I use the alternative Kingsport rift progress markers from BGG which are actual words and provide enough extra that you can mark the location instead of squinting to recognize the location pictures.