Glaaki definitely is the worse. He just wears us down. Yibb creamed us the first time we played him. After than, not so much. It does seem we always get the Press Pass when Yibb is the AO and can hardly use it. I know we've beaten him in final battle twice. I think we have beaten Glaaki, but he's a groaner when pulled. We usually keep the terror level down, or thought we did, but with Glaaki it seems to go higher early and often. Once I had the Martial Artist and the first Spawn was the one taking skills. That wasn't fun. I saw it coming but wasn't fast enough to buy a second skill in time.

Avi_dreader said: I disagree (a little). While Kingsport wasn't nearly as good as Dunwich it still added alot to the game, so I can't say I disliked it. BGotW on the other hand. Ugh... I feel like I bought some useful components (hey, corruption cards are great to make custom heralds and ancient ones with) but the expansion itself doesn't really hang together well— even in a game where I only played the base set and KiY with it. Bleh. Still... I do like those corruption cards ;') even though I have to make a custom something or other to actually see them! One of the things I liked about Kingsport is that its additions remain fairly constant regardless of how many expansions you play with— investigators, ancient ones, epic battles, monsters, and the rifts. I thought it was a nice touch even though I'm not exactly in love with Kingsport as a location (it's a bit boring). Still, I'm hoping that more aquatic dangers in Innsmouth will spice up Kingsport a bit :') I don't think you disagree much. Kingsport's rift mechanic is good and doesn't get watered down, it's just not fun nor does it make much sense to me. The complaints have been made by others. Why do locations in Kingsport relate to rifts in other towns? How come the encounters in Kingsport are so bland? How come there's next to no danger in Kingsport? How come monsters don't count against the monster limit. It would give another reason to go there? How come there's two super investigators in the group? On the plus side, Luke is my favorite investigator. Someday, I'll even get him to be helpful. The Epic Battle cards, repaired, not fixed, my biggest complaint--The AO's are too easy to beat in the Final Battle. If FFG does issue more small expansions, I hope they make the little box a little bigger so they can add more Ancient Ones and more Investigators and definitely more heralds. (Or maybe reissue Wendy, Daisy, Mandy, Dr. Vincent, Charlie and Dexter and maybe a few others to put them more in line with the rest of the investigators.)

Avi_dreader said: And no one is stopping anyone from turning Daisy into a second tier character by searching for a sub-optimal spell with her tome. Right. It's hard for me to do that, being a gamer and all. So that's why she's either not included in the random mix or a watered down version of her is. (Thanks to Strange Eons). Since I give players a limited choice of investigators, they can test out the watered down version or use the other character. In fact, almost all players that have used Daisy in my games do take a suboptimal spell or no spell at all and from her ranking in Tibs helpful investigator list, it appears that's pretty common. She's really only good in that hands of a veteran, or somebody who consciously looks for combos, and then she's too good.

allstar64 said: I think Wendy makes a more interesting game. Though Ii've seen people play her and compplain that they got bored once she got her first 2 seals. She is boring, but not until her third seal. Reason is that she doesn't need anything. She can go where she wants, when she wants to. There is some danger in the encounters and after her first two seals, there aren't that many clue tokens just lying around, so sometimes she has to go into dangerous locations. Daisy is at least interesting because as pointed out of above she has numerous choices via spells for strategies. Some, of course, are better than others, but almost all spells are better in her hands than anyone else's.

I'm an extreme separatist. Or rather an extreme thematist. I only play one expansion at a time (in terms of the Mythos deck) with at least half the Mythos deck being from the expansion I'm playing. We usually also play the herald or a herald of my own making to emphasize the theme even more. So, I want all the expansions they can make-big box or little bos, I don't care. I know I'll find something good. I have the Mythos decks laid out separately in big plastic card box I had purchased for MTG. So mixing and matching is a breeze. On the other hand, the last two expansions have been disappointing as a whole, tho parts of them are excellent. Black Goat especially is disappointing. It just doesn't go anywhere on its own and the herald is too tough and not even creatively tough, just tough. I guess one cannot expect everything to be A+. BTW, where do the rifts of Kingsport come from, that is, what is the story behind them? Anyone know?

Daisy. She can do everything Wendy can do with Summon Shantak. Because she's casting spells, she's less reliable in the streets, but on the other hand, she doesn't have to move if she's not mounted. Wendy has the advantage because she can seal a gate right away with her elder sign and a 2nd one pretty quickly because she starts with 2 clues. Daisy has other combos too. I've read about them, but haven't tried them. So she's more interesting to play since she goes more than one way. Wendy's a one trick pony. It's a great trick, tho. In the last games I played with them, they both easily sealed half the gates in their victories. They're both very good and both better than Mandy, the only other super investigator. Neither of their abilites are immediately self-evident. Daisy especially requires some hefty knowledge of the game and putting the combos together. In addition, neither of them is physically protrayed as desirable. Most novice players apparently don't want to play a child and don't want to play a Frumpy librarian. I say this because of the the way I distribute characters is to give the players a choice. Usually its one male and one female. Most of the time, both Wendy and Daisy are not chosen. When they are chosen, they aren't used maximally. (I've probably played with over 50 different people at conventions in the last year, most of whom are either complete novices or only have played the game a few times.). Observations: Wendy's players are relunctant to part with the elder sign. That's really key to her being used to her fullest. A really early seal on the right location can result in a couple of bounces (or an early burst ). Daisy's players don't like to lose the half turn it takes to read her tome or any tome, so the tome aspect is usually wasted. So if she get's a good spell at the beginning she does better than if she gets a mediocre spell, even if its free to cast. The real question I have is Why did FFG make these super investigators, especially Daisy? They gave her a great special skill (one less casting cast), a great tome and another power that even lets her read the tome for no sanity cost. I'm sure that as a Librarian, she was originally only a tome reader but they discovered that she wasn't desireable enough. I think if they gave her one less sanity cost and one less movement cost to read a tome and maybe a random Unique tome and that's all, she'd be OK (read average). For Wendy, if they actually did tie her evade ability to the elder sign (as several players thought), then there'd be at least one stragetic decision she'd have to make.

MrsGamura said: Curiosity = Shop Neil General Store = Dunwich Village St Mary Hospital= Congregrasional Hospital Arkham Ayslem= Harvey Jones Shack South Church= Dark's Carnival Ma's = Rope and Anchor Sceince Building = Light House (?) Ye Old Magic Shop = 7th House on the Left Dunwich, Kingsport and Innsmouth are tiny decrepit little towns with next to nothing in them. I used to work in such a town, a Mississippi river town, who's only businesses were a bait shop and a church. Didn't even have a mayor or a grain elevator. The only elected group was the cemetery commission. If you go to those towns, be prepared to have few amenities. Their nickname for the whole area was Forgotonia. If I wanted to emphasize Dunwich and Kingsport, I'd just use the Dunwich Mythos Deck and go from there. I suppose you could shuffle in Kingsport Mythos but then you'd have more Arkham action. Actually that is way we play. I always have all the boards out and anybody can go anywhere. But we randomly determine our emphasis and place cards from that expansion on top of the Mythos Deck. If you are really needing something the little rancid town can't provide then go without or jump on the train and head to the big(?) city of Arkham. Or maybe your table isn't big enough? I've considered putting the different boards on different tables to stress the distances between the towns.

johnwatersfan said: But for a character who is so "broken" her win percentage is on the lower end of investigators... Daisy is complicated and her powers are not completely self evident. I give her out at conventions only to relatively novice players. Often they don't bother with even picking a spell with her Livre d'Ivon. Other than that I don't include her in our random drawings with my more experienced group. I've gone games where Daisy never ever loses any Sanity Tokens. Almost as good is Wendy for the reasons previously pointed out. She's not very exciting but with her ability to Evade and and gain an early seal, she's a major contributer. In my 3 and 4 player games I've never gotten less than three seals out of her. She's mostly a one trick pony though. But with her practically free casting and the ability to choose any spell she wants, she's more powerful than anyone other investigator. If she happens to end up with 2 Shrivelings, that's +12 magic attacks to her fight ability. I use her with Summon Shantak. That gives her 5 Movement and almost total evasion that she casts with 5 Lore dice. (Casting with 4 dice) There are several postings on this forum about the various abuses with Daisy. By herself she's amazing. Put her with Kate and the right spell investigators get to choose when and if gates open.

They thought of it too. Page 7 "Returning from Being Lost in Time and Space Investigators who are lost in time and space may choose to return to a street area or location in Kingsport, just as they would return to an Arkham street area or location. EXCEPTION: As described below, investigators cannot return to any Kingsport Head location from Lost in Time and Space." THE KINGSPORT HEAD The Causeway, Wireless Station, and Strange High House in the Mist locations are all part of the mysterious Kingsport Head. This area is very difficult to enter and travel in. Investigators who enter the Causeway or Wireless Station must immediately end their movement. In addition, investigators may not move directly into any of the Kingsport Head locations using spells, equipment,or through other unusual methods, such as returning from being lost in time and space. Instead, they must move to the Harborside streets and enter the Causeway normally.

Tibs said: mageith said:Whenever a person plays more than one investigator, he's playing a house rule. I understand your point in having a unified plan, but the above statement is kind of a stretch. One person playing solo running a 4-investigator team is not necessarily getting an advantage. What you miss out on with fewer players is the ability to catch stuff and remind each other of risks and plans. I suffer from forgetting slider movements to accommodate my plans. If you were playing with more people, your "unified plan" wouldn't be kept secret, so there's no real benefit to doing it alone without dissenting opinions. No stretch whatsoever. It is a houserule. All I'm saying is that there are no rules for players playing multiple investigators. The game is clearly designed for players and each player plays one investigator. Its not too tough to play with more than one investigator, pretty easy in fact, but its not the design of the game. The game is designed for 1-8 players. A solo game is, by definition, one player with one investigator against the game. "Arkham Horror is a game for 1 to 8 players (3 to 5 recommended), playable in 2 to 4 hours." "The players must work together as a team of investigators to close all of the dimensional gates, seal them permanently, or if that fails, defeat the Ancient One when it awakens from its slumber." "The first player shuffles the 16 investigator sheets. Then, without looking, he randomly deals out one investigator sheet in front of each player, including himself." Of course one player with multiple investigators gets an advantage, or at least has an advantage. If he squanders his advantage by forgetting bookkeeping, well that works both ways. Forgetting some bookkeeping is advantageous (not to imply deliberate). I'm surprised you would even bother to argue otherwise. From my experience with dozens of different players, the players very quickly identify with their investigator. What a single player might risk with one of his multiple investigators a single player with but one investigator would not risk. That's why there's really no penalty for being devoured. There doesn't have to be. In otherwords, Arkham Horror is designed to be a personal experience not a game in the traditional sense.

thecorinthian said: That's not to mention that the Colour doesn't even drain very much sanity: on average it'll only move about once every six turns, and it'll only drain sanity on half of those occasions. You say that it's easy enough to ignore the Dhole; I say that it's also easy enough to ignore the Colour Out Of Space. I think they move every three turns and drain on half of them. So about once every six turns, EVERYONE in Arkham will lose a sanity. My Colours seem to come in pairs too. Most investigators can't easily take him out either, though some can.

thecorinthian said: By the way, I don't understand why people enjoy the idea of a traitor. This is a co-operative game, and form of treachery just ruins the game. That's why I hate JtWT. This is not the way the game was meant to be played. For the record: I also think that traitor characters aren't a particularly good idea either, but pittplayer seemed keen and it seemed like an interesting card-design exercise. I agree. Clayton Marsh: Apparently there's no way to stop him from doing his unsealing thing. So his early function is the grab up all the clues he can, denying them to the investigators. He's essentially just another Atlach, is he not. Just don't go for the sealing victory, since the investigators will not have enough clues anyway and if they do attempt to seal the traitor will simply unseal them. Why is unsealing almost as easy and sealing and more rewarding than sealing? Even the Old Ones cannot unseal a gate that easily. What else can he do? He searches for and uses the traitor cards that the corinithian laid out. What am I missing? Why is he not devourable? theme? Victory conditions: What if every investigator is devoured during the game, but comes back as another investigator? I currently use a traitor function in ALL my games. He's hidden. I have card for each AO. Each player draws a card. If the card and AO match, the AO MAY be the traitor. The goal of the traitor is to bring out the Ancient One and help the ancient one win the final battle*. Whether he survives or not is immaterial. *But I do have a major rule change. Investigators can fight each other. They can also evade each other. Even (especially) during the final battle. Once exposed, the traitor no longer counts as an investigator so the final battle is easier in that respect, but now he's probably attacking the investigators during the final battle. Or he can choose to pretend to be fighting the old one until the last minute. Being a traitor is strictly voluntary, but accidently showing the traitor card to anyone brings on a madness card for owner of the card and a doom token unless s/he actually is the traitor. A player has chosen to be the traitor twice. Both times, s/he was thwarted. Both times it was from guests and not from our regular group.

jgt7771 said: But if we want to talk good "Arkham Horror" movies (not straight HPL, I mean), I always thought In the Mouth of Madness (1995) at least got the theme right. I still like Dagon (2001), and I wonder if Innsmouth Horror will be anything like it. Nightmares and Dreamscapes' "Crouch End" (2001) and Masters of Horror's "Dreams in the Witch House" (2005) hit the theme pretty well.But I still say, for all its goofiness, Ghostbusters (1984) is the best game of Arkham Horror ever filmed. Have you seen The Mist? I liked Ghostbusters but it is a comedy and it has to do with people who thought they were ready to face another dimension. The Mist is more like Arkham Horror is that the protagonists are taken unawares. I didn't watch The Mist because I thought it had anything to do with Lovecraft. I watched The Mist because Little Emily ordered it because she likes that kind of stuff. When I first mentioned it, I didn't say it had much to do with Lovecraft. What I said was that it was very Arkham Horror. Which it is. I have yet to read the Lovecraft story where there are multiple interdimensional gates opening. One at most is all I've found. Arkham Horror on the other hand is exactly about interdimensional gates allowing alien monsters coming through and being fought by humans not really ready to do it. The lead character is an artist or writer. So again, The Mist isn't a Lovecraftian adaptation, but it is an Arkham Horror adaption, of if it isn't, it should be. The ending was a little too positive though.

Phibby said: mageith said: I do have a house rule that can bring in the red cards earlier, so we've had the pleasure of sudden devourment. You don't know what you're missing. What is the house rule? Sounds like soemthing I'd like to try... I do it through my little newspaper, the Arkham Advertiser. Many of the otherworldly investigators (Luke's Ledger, Gloria's Gory Details, Jacqueline's Jottings, etc.) write a column on the Opinion Page that the strength of the Old One's is getting stronger. That means that if an Epic Battle comes about we roll 1 dice, per report. If if any of the dice are a 1, then we use a red epic card instead of a green card. We've had up to four and that time every card was a red card. Usually we have no more than 1 and then often its of little or no effect. To get the same ratio as I have, you could roll a two dice for each doom token. On a 2 or 3, you'll have to roll for a red card. If you like to live (die?) more on the edge, you can use any ratio you want. Yes, you could be devoured on the first turn. Hasn't happened. I use it to encourage the players NOT to go for the final battle. I have one member who always wants to fight the Old One. In fact, we've gone to fighting IT for the fun? when he plays of it even if we've sealed IT off.

Dam said: mageith said: You don't know what you're missing. That's what a friend of mine keeps telling me about alcohol . It's about the same. Both will devour you.

Dam said: Others have listed the weak ones, though I definately put Cthulhu among that bunch. To me he's the second easiest base-game GOO to win against (Azathoth is the easiest as mentioned). I say win, since I count final combat "wins" as draws; win being victory via closing gates or sealing (or Join the Winning Team ). 13 doom track + minimal game impact = super weak GOO. Poor Azathoth has an even longer doom track and even less game impact. I agree. We didn't face Cthulhu for a long time because the Sanity/Stamina impact seemed daunting. Turns out it's not. However, we've never defeated him in face to face combat (3-4 investigators), though with him there's a chance unlike with Azathoth. I hate Shub-Niggurath though others apparently find him not that difficult.

Dam said: There are 8+8 EB cards right? Greens on top, you draw 1 each turn. So with no hanky-panky, you should see the first Red on the 9th turn of the final combat? Man, that sounds WAY longer than most combats take (or should take). I think the red cards are a CYA for mistakes where the combination of investigators and AO end up in a stalement or automatic victory for the investigators. Nothing stops an outright devourment. We too have never gotten into the red cards normally. I do have a house rule that can bring in the red cards earlier, so we've had the pleasure of sudden devourment. You don't know what you're missing.

Gamemaster said: Macronx said: Actually, step 3c would be moved to be a step 5. Closed rifts are operated after the Mythos card is resolved, open rifts are operated during the Mythos phase. From the KH rulebook: Each time a mythos card is resolved, check to see if the monster movement pattern on it matches any of the patters next to a closed rift. So, the current debate focuses on when the open rifts move and spawn monsters. Currently, we play the same way you do: Moving open rifts and spawning monsters AFTER monster movement. The rulebook does say that the rift moves when the same symbol of monsters move. But since we do not move rift-spawned monsters the same turn, we wait until all of the current monsters have moved before spawning another. I don't think the rule clearly indicates "after", though it doesn't clearly indicate its concurrent with checking movement either. I play it that it occurs when movement is resolved because its the harsher interpretation. Reason: Once or after a Mythos card is resolved, the phase and turn is over. Page 12: TURN END Once the first player has resolved all steps of the Mythos Phase, the first player marker is passed to the left. The turn is now over and a new one begins with the Upkeep Phase. Play continues in this way until the end of the game. Here's the entire rule. Note that after the Mythos effect is resolved, the Mythos card is discarded. Finally, the first player looks at the special text on the mythos card, examining the trait listed at the top of the card. The various traits indicate different types of mythos cards, and they are resolved in different ways as described below. Headline: The first player immediately resolves the special text of a Headline mythos card. He then discards the mythos card face down to the bottom of the mythos deck. Environment: The special text of an Environment mythos card remains in play for several turns, possibly even until the end of the game. The first player places the card face up next to the game board, discarding any previous Environment mythos card face down to the bottom of the mythos deck. This means that only one Environment mythos card can be in play at a time. Rumor: The special text of a Rumor mythos card remains in effect until either the Pass or Fail condition on the card is met, at which point the card is resolved and is discarded face down to the bottom of the mythos deck. Only one Rumor can be in play at once. If there is already a Rumor mythos card in play, ignore the special text of the newly drawn Rumor and discard it face down to the bottom of the mythos deck after resolving its other effects for the turn (such as gate opening and monster movement). Other Effects: Additionally, the mythos card may call for one or more “activity” or “closed” markers to be placed on specific locations. Simply place the respective markers on the locations indicated by the card. If the card leaves play, remove the markers from the locations as well.

Templarion said: However, I still want to have monsters that are actually more terrifying than human encounters. I want that the humans are easier to kill than Dark Youngs. I also like the fact that in the game you can actually kill a human person with a .45 handgun. It can be done. Have you fought the Dunwich Horror Yet? Of course, you can kill a human with a .45 handgun but apparently none of the cultists have learned how to use one so it's like shooting fish in a barrell. See Sheriff Engle for my imagination of what an agressive and strong human would be like. Have you seen The Mist yet? In it, are MI-go and Byakhee type monsters. The Byakhee are actually smaller than I imagined, since they don't seem big enough to carry a human. There are also spiders of all sizes. All of them were killable by ordinary means and weapons. Then there were two monsters off camera. One only showed us it's tentacles. You had to imagine it's real size. Maybe, just maybe, a proper dynamite charge would have harmed it. But I doubt it would have stood still for that like AH monsters do. Then there was a shadow of such a large monster, who's every step shook the earth. Maybe it was an Old One, maybe not. There's no way our investigators, short of magic, could have defeated it straight up. Much of the movie had to do with conflict between several groups of people and some individuals. I think you would like that part. Right now most of the humans are waaaay too weak and some of the monsters are way too weak. With Strange eons you can create your own configuration of monsters to fit your imagination. Or you could just play the Shub-Niggurath rule where all monsters have +1 toughness, which probably makes it more like you imagine it. Defeating humans and gain a clue token? What's the theme behind this? Here's how I'd do it. What you are doing is capturing humans and taking them to jail (rather than dissecting them at the Science Building). I'd do it one of several ways. Either give the same reward as the science building (2 clues for 5 bloods). In addition, each human trophy you have slows you down one Movement point. (They aren't cooperative). If you want to increase the clue generation then don't place any clues on the board to begin with. They still come normally when gates open and when you turn over cultists to the authorities.

thecorinthian said: She's very, very good, but I don't think she's completely broken... ...unless she gets hold of the Necronomicon. Once she's got it, she can probably have free run of almost the entire spell deck. I've seen her end up with 20 spells, and she really was invincible. She could have kept the board under control by herself, the other investigators became irrelevent. It was like WIllow at the end of season 6 of Buffy. Scary stuff. What's completely broken mean? Daisy's several levels above average and many levels above the worst investigators. She's in a class by herself. Even Wendy and Mandy are not as good. In addition, her special powers just don't make sense. She doesn't come out of the box broken, but it doesn't take long. I've played her with the Necronomicon. Once you have 2 or 3 of the best spells, you don't need any more. She's a super(wo)man, in game turns. On the other hand, she can't automatically seal win the game alone. I've tried several times and with several combos. But if she is played to maximum, she'd have a lot better stats than Tib's stats show. No she's not completely broken, but she takes a lot of the challenge out of most games. I'll let low experience players draw her (they seldom do) but I won't give them any help.

Templarion said: mageith, w00t!! Where did you get those monsters and Herald card? Those are awesome! Only problem are the names because those characters appear in encounters as friends. It would look silly when Doyle Jeffries is fightning against investigators but someone in the Newspaper-location is getting extra money from him. Excluding the names, that was exactly the thing I was talking about.Someones were talking about creating own monsters. How do you do that exactly? Graphics can be done via computer but are there somekind of programs for AH-monsters specially? How about materializing the bits? How do I make the pixels come true? Simple house rule ideas are still welcome! I would rather go easier than harder way. As pointed out, these all come from Strange eons and a scanner and heavy paper. I suppose you can now get the images from the Arkham Horror Wiki. In reality, monsters are only a combination of numbers so you could change the pictures and use the numbers and rules on the back of monsters to keep your ratios the same. You can change the names to protect the innocent. I do have an Oliver. Just when I made the card sheet I misclicked. I also have a monster card for each ally. I call them Insane Allies. With them, I actually pull them when a cultist is called. However, in a cup of all monsters, there aren't that many cultists. I don't think I've ever seen more than 6 and its usually in the 4 or so range.

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said: I've only recently come to Dunwich, so I'm a little surprised at the general consensus that Daisy is considered to be as powerful as she seems to be. Does this derive from her ability with tomes, her spellcasting cost reduction, or her stats? Or is it a combination? She begins with a tome that allows her to pick any spell. There are several combinations that make this very very powerful. Does she have stats? My favorite spell with her is "Summon Shantak". With that, she can easily seal three gates in a 4 investigator game. I think Dexter could be powerful if he gets to pick his spell from the beginning of the game. Daisy is better. She can cast several spells per turn at no sanity cost. I have gone games where she never loses a Sanity token. She's so good, I won't play her. However she's daunting to a newbie. I've seen them dither the whole game studying the spells or never bother to take that turn it takes to read the tome to get the spell. On the other hand, once a veteran has tried the several combinations, she almost feels like cheating.

i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/mageith/blightmonsters.png Something like this?

To make this work, wouldn't cultists and their ilk have to be tougher and monsters even tougher? For example, right now to fight a cultist, the investigators get first attack and have a bunch of dice +1 and only have to do one damage to the cultist and he's defeated. Talk about rolling over and playing dead. An investigator would have to fail to damage the cultist 3-6 times before the cultist puts him in the hospital. Hardly a fair fight. In addition, shouldn't there be a horror check or nightmarish for defeating a cultist? After all, you've just killed a human. Apparently all investigators have a 007 license to kill. A normal ordinary cultist s/b Horror -3 Horror damage 2 brains Nightmarish 1 (at least) Combat rating of -3 Heart damage 3 or so. And 2-4 toughness. That might give cultists a fighting chance (50%) against an investigator. Of course, once you did that, then the monsters would have be even tougher and more difficult and you might need rules for multiple investigators to fight certain monsters, like Elder Things and Shoggoths. In other words, the scale is way out of whack. And what is a monster trophy and where do the investigators keep them until they take them to the science builidng or add them up for points?

Daisy the librarian is the best investigator in the game. She's so good, I've banned her from my games. She can go so many different ways. I'd trade out Diana for her. Leo is good. I'd rather have Darrell or Kate the scientist though it's pretty close to a toss up. Leo is consistently good. Darrell and Kate the scientist can have really big effects, but sometimes they don't. I agree with Mandy and Wendy. I'd probably go with an all girl gang.