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Aging One

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  1. Where is that "light bulb goes on" symbol?
  2. OKay. So, if the entry arrow pointed to a door, rather than a portcullis, you would not have to open that door either?
  3. Not sure I see the portcullis this way. The rules for the portcullis, on page 8, are quite specific, and make no mention as to whether or not you are dealing with a "dungeon chamber" or a "unexplored space". "Moving Through a Portcullis If a Hero attempts to move through a portcullis, he must fire make a successful Strength test . . . If the Hero succeeds, he continues his movement as normal . . ." I don't see in the rules an exception for entering a dungeon chamber with a portcullis for the first time, i.e., a previously unexplored dungeon space, without taking the test.
  4. timonkey said: Technically, it does not specify that they are not in the brig, but it seems pretty obvious this is the intent. As for highest as opposed to next in succession, it says that in the FAQ (although technically for revealed cylons, not for brigging). However, one of the FAQ questions asks when happens when all the players are in the brig (the highest in the brig gets Admiralty), suggesting this does not happen when some are out of the brig. It isn't "technically," it is the RAW. There is nothing at all in the RAW that addresses whether or not the character highest (or next) in line for succession can or cannot be in the brig. As to the FAQ, it addresses one specific situation, and says nothing about any other situation. As to "intent ," I see as the "intent" that stripping the Admiral of his/her title is a penalty for being thrown in the brig; the fact that the next in line for succession is not relevant. Otherwise, why, when all other humans are already in the brig, would you strip the title from the Admiral and give it to the next character in line for succession? Why not just let the Admiral keep the title? The problem is, of course, I am arguing intent rather than RAW and I cannot know the designer's intent unless he has expressed it in some forum.
  5. Mike said: Also, the admiral's title is given to player highest in line not in the Brig - not the next in lines as stated in the rules. Where exactly does it say that the Admiral's title is given to the player highest in line of succession NOT IN THE BRIG?
  6. "So to sum up with The Harbinger Approaches in play, are we leaning towards an interpretation that Heroes can enter the Overlord's Keep in an attempt to kill the Avatar, but this does not trigger the Final Battle steps normally triggered by exceeding 600 CQ?" I'm sorry, but the RAW that I read do not say that; that is the problem. I do, however, like your thematic rationale better than I like your rules interpretations. As I indicated earlier, I am awaiting a response from FFG; however, as I submitted during the interval between XMAS and New Years, it may be some time before they get to it, if they do at all.
  7. Corbon said: And we already agreed that the Harbinger card overrode that rule... Rule 1. Heroes can't enter OLs Keep before Final Battle. Rule 2 (with power to override rule 1 - cards do that) Heroes can enter the OLs keep when the Harbinger is in play. No mention of Final Battle. Rule 1 is not in action if rule 2 is being invoked. (you can't use rule 2 without either breaking or ignoring rule 1). Thus, there is no Final Battle. Just exploring the OLs Keep. This is bad for the heroes as they don't get a last opportunity to train, Its supposed to be bad for the heroes - the OL has completed his dastardly plot and is about to be all powerful. The heroes have failed, but have one last ditch attempt to recover from their mistakes and truly be heroes. You specifically do keep a second set of books. The book tells you to track new CTs, so when you finally meet the Avatar you have the appropriate CT totals right there on your new track! Well, unfortunately, I am beginning to be swayed by your arguments. Corbon said: I hope you bothered to lay out the question properly. FFG are no better than most rules designers at answering questions. Unless all the details are laid out for them in the body of the question they often answer according to what they think they wrote (or what they intended to write), not according to what they actually wrote. I laid the question as I saw it; whether it meets your standard of "bothering to lay out the question properly" I don't know. I guess you'll have to submit your own question (BTW, I'm not expecting an answer). But if I get one, I would hope that they would answer it as they intended the rules to read, rather than just RAW.
  8. Corbon said: Wrong way of looking at it I think. Can you show me where in the rules or cards it says that the Harbinger starts "the Final Battle"? Or where entering the OLs Keep (once the usual restriction has been lifted by the Harbinger) automatically starts "the Final Battle"? You can't (I think), because it doesn't. In fact, "the Final Battle" only kicks in when the combined CT total reaches 600. See Pg 9, The Final Battle At the beginning of the game week when... ...the Final Battle begins. At this stage, and only this stage, the conditions on pg 20 (ironically under the title 'The Overlords Keep' kick in. This is where the party moves to Tamalir, trains once etc. However if the party merely enters the OLs Keep without triggering the Final Battle conditions (heading there on the overland map and entering by virtue of the Harbinger allowing them to, just like any other dungeon) then they are merely exploring the Overlords Keep and follow only the set of rules on pg 20 under the heading Exploring the Overlord's Keep. These do not include Training in Tamalir. I already showed you in the rules: And it says "The heroes may enter your Keep while this card is in play." On page 20, it states quite clearly that "heroes can't enter the Overlord's Keep....before the Final Battle begins." Therefore, the Final Battle begins when the hero party enters the OL's Keep and both the hero party and the OL follow the process outlined on page 20 for the Final Battle: "When the Final Battle is determined to have begun...." And your correct, the Hero party does follow the "Exploring the Dungeon" rules on page 20 as a subset of the "Final Battle" rules (see step 4). And there is a further complication, what do you do with conquest tokens that the OL suddenly now carries over into exploring the Keep. The rules say that only conquest tokens "scored" since the Heroes entered the OL's Keep? Are you going to maintain two sets of books on conquest tokens (yes, I know you can do it, but it is not a part of the rules for exploring the Keep)? I've submitted this rules question to FFG.
  9. Corbon said: Aged One said: Jack Ketch said: The Harbinger Approaches does not affect total Conquest, nor does it start the Final Battle. The card does however start a game-ending clock, in which the heroes lose if eleven comets are accumulated at the four temples (basically, at one comet per week, that means the OL automatically wins 10 weeks from first play of The Harbinger Approaches). Actually the card says "if you ever end your turn with nine Comet tokens in play, you win the campaign." And it says "The heroes may enter your Keep while this card is in play." On page 20, it states quite clearly that "heroes can't enter the Overlord's Keep....before the Final Battle begins." Therefore, the Final Battle begins when the hero party enters the OL's Keep and both the hero party and the OL follow the process outlined on page 20 for the Final Battle: "When the Final Battle is determined to have begun...." Strictly speaking that is not a true logical procession. The Harbinger card merely overrides the base rule that the Heroes cannot enter the Overlords keep. However if you follow the rules on Pg 20 for what happens when the heroes enter the OLs keep, what you get is the final battle. Importantly though, it is not "the Final Battle" so you don't go through the Tamalir training, nor is CT reduced to zero etc.( ie don't follow steps 1-3 in the top half of the right column on pg 20, go staright to step 4.) However, once you reach the 5th level and the OL's Avatar appears you will follow steps 1-3 on the bottom half on right side pg 20. It will be the final battle, but it will not be the Final Battle. Can you show me where in the rulebook are the rules that cover: "It will be the final battle, but it will not be the Final Battle"? Where in the rules does it say you do not follow the Final Battle rules when the Final Battle has begun? The OL has played a card that changes a basic rule in the rulesbook (its not as if there aren't plenty of situations where cards change basic rules in the rulesbook for both the OL and the Hero party). This card starts a OL controlled game-ending timer and can effect permanent damage to the Hero party, but it also affords the Hero party the opportunity to start "the Final Battle" earlier.
  10. Jack Ketch said: The Harbinger Approaches does not affect total Conquest, nor does it start the Final Battle. The card does however start a game-ending clock, in which the heroes lose if eleven comets are accumulated at the four temples (basically, at one comet per week, that means the OL automatically wins 10 weeks from first play of The Harbinger Approaches). Actually the card says "if you ever end your turn with nine Comet tokens in play, you win the campaign." And it says "The heroes may enter your Keep while this card is in play." On page 20, it states quite clearly that "heroes can't enter the Overlord's Keep....before the Final Battle begins." Therefore, the Final Battle begins when the hero party enters the OL's Keep and both the hero party and the OL follow the process outlined on page 20 for the Final Battle: "When the Final Battle is determined to have begun...."
  11. "It seems that if I stack all of my comets within range of the Overlord's keep, I can reduce the hero's stats by a very unfair amount. Having most of your heroes at 0 fatigue when entering the keep, let alone with the other restrictions, is hardly fair." Comets placed prior to the Hero's party entry into a dungeon (and within three trails of their location) effect a permanent reduction both the Health/Fatigue of the Hero party. "And how are you playing the "entering the Keep" part? My group is having a discussion about whether walking to and entering the Keep still allows for Preparations for the Final Battle (or not)." Our Hero party and OL are also embroiled in this discussion. Here are my thoughts: The "Final Battle" begins Quote: "Once the Overlord and the heroes pass a combined total of 600 conquest tokens,.... and .....the heroes can't enter the Overlord's Keep -- or even move to that location.....-- before the Final Battle begins." The Ascension plot card "the Harbinger Approaches" allows that Quote: The heroes may enter your Keep while this card is in play. My reading of the Ascension plot card is that it supercedes the requirement for "a combined total of 600 conquest tokens" because the heroes cannot enter the Keep nor even the map location prior to the beginning of the Final Battle. "When the "Final Battle" is determined to have begun ...." then you follow the process outlined on page 20 of the Descent: The Road to Legend rulebook.
  12. The Hero party is getting ready to exit the dungeon at The Fool's Rapids. The OL had played the plot card "The Harbinger Approaches" at the beginning of the week. The Avatar is the Spider Queen whose Keep is at the Whispering Forest, two weeks travel from the Hero party. So, because of the play of the plot card "The Harbinger Approaches" the Hero party can travel to the Whispering Forest to initate the "Final Battle". The rules provide a process for initiating the "Final Battle" after the combined conquest total passes 600. Is that process for initiating the "Final Battle" changed in any way because of the play of the plot card "The Harbinger Approaches"?
  13. Big Remy said: Big Remy said: The only place I've ever seen it in writing is in Universal Head's Descent RtL reference guide. I know that it was posted on a forum response authored by Kevin Wilson or one of the game designers. Several people here can verifiy it, so you'll unfortunately have to take our word for it, unless someone knows where it is. If you're intrepid fellow Hero doesn't want to believe that, I feel bad that you have him in your gaming group because I would find that a very boring way to play Descent. EDIT: Found it on the old forum I will errata this in the next FAQ. If the overlord goes through his entire deck 3 times (or 4 times for a Rumor or Legendary Area), the heroes immediately flee the dungeon. When the heroes get their last training opportunity after the campaign reaches 600+ conquest, the Overlord may purchase one final upgrade as well. -Kevin Wilson Fantasy Flight Games It never made it into the FAQ, but that's official word right there. Here's the original post. Thx. That resolves the issue, but it certainly is quite severe, i.e., once through the OL deck per dungeon level.
  14. Big Remy said: It was clarified by Kevin Wilson that once the OL goes through the deck 3 times, the Party is immediately ejected from the dungeon. This was done to prevent the exact situation that you are describing. I don't suppose you could point me to where that was in writing?
  15. RtL campaign: Silver level, Spider Queen & Ascension Plot. The current conquest token level is 283. The OL has razed Frostgate, Dawnmoor, Forge, & Vyneldale; has played the Ascension card "The Harbinger Approaches" and place one comet token at Frostgate. The Hero party is at "The Fool's Rapids" and, as a result of the comet token, down -1 wound/-1 fatigue. The Hero party has just finished the second dungeon level. However, the Hero party is concerned about what happens when they leave "The Fool's Rapids" dungeon. The Hero party is but two weeks from the Spider Queen's lair and, because of the play of "The Harbinger Approaches," can immediately enter the lair. But, in getting to the lair, the Hero party will go down an additional -5 wounds/-5 fatigue because the OL will be able to play two more comet tokens at Frostgate in that two week period. Return to Tamalir is equally pointless, since all four razed cities are within three weeks of Tamalir, so the Hero party would still be impacted by the comet tokens, to a greater or lesser degree dependent on the placement by the OL. In order to avoid the emasculating effects of the comet tokens, one intrepid member of the Hero party has suggested, that, after the dungeon's leader has been dispatched, the Hero party not leave the dungeon until the level of conquest tokens have risen to the level required to initiate "The Final Battle." This would be accomplished by the OL recycling the OL deck as much as 106 times in the dungeon (assuming there were no other conquest token generating actions). This intrepid member of the Hero party contends that there is no scripture prohibiting this peculiar strategy. Further, the OL cannot leave the dungeon and once the conquest token level reaches 600, the OL will not be able to place another comet token, and both the OL and the Hero party will start "The Final Battle" at '0' conquest tokens anyhow, so the 100's of conquest tokens gained by the OL in the dungeon will be meaningless. Is there a rule that forces the Hero party to end the dungeon exploration? NB: I am a member of the Hero party, but not the intrepid member.
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