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Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave are "attachments"?


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#21 CrunchyDemon

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:20 AM

 

Some attachments should have the possibility to be "integrated" into a base object. Integrated would mean:

1) a mechanics roll install (another mechanics roll to replace)

2) no Hard Points cost

 

I think you lost me at number 2 because to me, this smacks a little bit of munchkinism.

 

I have no problems whatsoever with Cortosis eating 2 HP, and Superior eating 1.  It's still eliminating those Hard Points for balance purposes, so I approve.

 

I suppose from a narrative purpose that it makes sense that Cortosis and Superior require some in-depth wrenching on the gear, but given the incredibly high costs associated with both of those attachments, I'm really not worried about it.


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#22 Ghostofman

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:42 AM

Here is a silly question, but one that I can see my PC's asking eventually.

 

What would be the cost of applying cortosis weave to a ship? :huh:

 

Their ship got hit by a conc missile last session... :D

 

Yeah, the cost is going to be astronomical, and I'd bet the empire would be very interested in any individual purchasing that quantity of the stuff. Remember in the EotE era the Empire is already ramping up the DStar II program, so rare raw materials like cortisis, and phirk are probably  already being diverted to the Empire, with only small amounts getting out for public consumption.

 

On the bright side if you're into the commodities market it's a god time to own Cortosis futures...


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#23 LukeZZ

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:48 AM

 

 

Some attachments should have the possibility to be "integrated" into a base object. Integrated would mean:

1) a mechanics roll install (another mechanics roll to replace)

2) no Hard Points cost

 

I think you lost me at number 2 because to me, this smacks a little bit of munchkinism.

 

I have no problems whatsoever with Cortosis eating 2 HP, and Superior eating 1.  It's still eliminating those Hard Points for balance purposes, so I approve.

 

I suppose from a narrative purpose that it makes sense that Cortosis and Superior require some in-depth wrenching on the gear, but given the incredibly high costs associated with both of those attachments, I'm really not worried about it.

 

 

Still there is a weapon (for now) with built-in Superior quality at no HP cost.

It seems that when designing new weapons/armors some effects can be included at no HP cost.

Yes, this is NOT a "simple" modding, but a full "design and produce".

Can a player create such things? I would say yes (maybe he's a mandalorian who wants to build his armor from scratch).



#24 mouthymerc

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:14 AM

.

Can a player create such things? I would say yes (maybe he's a mandalorian who wants to build his armor from scratch).

 

Yes, by using the attachments and hard points. Can he make an a superior blaster? Sure. Take a blaster pistol and add the Superior Weapon Customization. Can he make the H-7 Equalizer with its HP? No, but he can buy it and further customize it. Weapons and armour can come with qualities built in, as we are seeing, but they also come with a commiserate higher cost and rarity to account for that.

 

Now if someone wanted to build something from scratch I would look to see if it is feasible for them to even do it first of all. If it is, I could see them building a weapon or armour with some qualities built in, just like some of the items we are seeing so far.


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#25 Ghostofman

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:52 AM


Now if someone wanted to build something from scratch I would look to see if it is feasible for them to even do it first of all. If it is, I could see them building a weapon or armour with some qualities built in, just like some of the items we are seeing so far.

 

 

The inventor talent says "When constructing new items" so clearly the game in intended to allow this. I bet when the Mech class book comes out we'll know more.


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#26 mouthymerc

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:54 AM

 


Now if someone wanted to build something from scratch I would look to see if it is feasible for them to even do it first of all. If it is, I could see them building a weapon or armour with some qualities built in, just like some of the items we are seeing so far.

 

 

The inventor talent says "When constructing new items" so clearly the game in intended to allow this. I bet when the Mech class book comes out we'll know more.

 

Good point. Completely forgot that FFG designers have incorporated some things that won't be fully effective till later.


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#27 Josep Maria

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:51 AM

One doubt about Cortosis.

 

Lets say that you have a Cortosis armor that adds you Soak 2. If you are hit by a lightsaber, and let say you have Brawn 3, you have Soak of 5 (3+2) or just only 2 (from Cortosis armor)?


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#28 Sturn

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:36 AM

How can Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave be considered "attachments"?

It means that you can "attach" and "detach" them even without a Mechanics roll.

Shouldn't this type of "Attachments" be considered "Modification Options" of the basic item they modify?

(So you must roll to 'place" them and if you fail you can ruin the basic item)

 

I agree there is some logical failings, best not to think too hard about it. If you think too much then you have to ask yourself if special boots should be an armor attachment, or just a new piece of gear? Scopes can be yanked off a weapon in a second. Should that be an installed attachment, or a piece of gear that I can carry multiple versions of slapping one on my weapon that fits the situation best? Yep, best not to go there.

 

 

The game started with basic equipment which can be mofified using the current attachments, therefore allowing unique pieces of equipment for characters. We are now (as new sourcebooks release) seeing equipment with some things already built in. Who's to say we don't see something like a version of Mandalorian heavy armour that already incorporates the cortosis and superior qualities, and still has hard points for more customization, all with a comiserative cost? Doesn't mean that the attachments should change, though.

 

This is exactly what I'm afraid of and wish they hadn't done. You can already "make" that armor you just described by choosing Heavy Battle Armor and applying the Cortosis Weave and Superior Customization attachments. Making new, named armors could have been done so with the current system in place without the new armors over-shadowing what is in core.

 

I instead wish only new basic arms and armor made it to expansion books. The Bow, Slugthrower Carbine, Sniper Blaster Rifle, all without unique brand names. Then, the expansions could have had several new attachments and example brand named items with pre-installed attachments. For example, the Power Armor in the latest book could have been given a company name/model, then described as a Heavy Battle Armor with Strength Enhancing attachment with adjusted price and a note that 2 HP's have already been used up when purchasing it. Doing that doesn't make the core Heavy Battle Armor and attachment suddenly obsolete. A player with his cool Blaster Pistol modded with attachments that he is proud of piecing together may be heartbroken when the next expansion suddenly makes it a piece of obsolete crap, relatively speaking.


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#29 Ghostofman

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:22 AM

One doubt about Cortosis.
 
Lets say that you have a Cortosis armor that adds you Soak 2. If you are hit by a lightsaber, and let say you have Brawn 3, you have Soak of 5 (3+2) or just only 2 (from Cortosis armor)?


5, Cortosis quality makes "the users soak" immune to those effect, not just the armor's soak.
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#30 UHF

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:53 AM

One doubt about Cortosis.

Lets say that you have a Cortosis armor that adds you Soak 2. If you are hit by a lightsaber, and let say you have Brawn 3, you have Soak of 5 (3+2) or just only 2 (from Cortosis armor)?

Soak is 5 is since it defeats breach/pierce.
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#31 Timfads

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

How can Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave be considered "attachments"?
It means that you can "attach" and "detach" them even without a Mechanics roll.
Shouldn't this type of "Attachments" be considered "Modification Options" of the basic item they modify?
(So you must roll to 'place" them and if you fail you can ruin the basic item)


What book is this from?

#32 bradknowles

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 04:20 PM

How can Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave be considered "attachments"?
It means that you can "attach" and "detach" them even without a Mechanics roll.
Shouldn't this type of "Attachments" be considered "Modification Options" of the basic item they modify?
(So you must roll to 'place" them and if you fail you can ruin the basic item)


What book is this from?


CRB, under Weapon Attachments and Armor Attachments.


IMO, this is one of those things where the GM has to take the common sense approach and say that the “attachment” in question isn’t really something that can just be removed or re-attached with trivial ease, that this is something that is built into the equipment and is an inherent part of it.

For the purpose of game mechanics, assigning a price, etc… it is called an “attachment”, but they’re not actually “attached” in that same sense.

Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

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#33 HappyDaze

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 04:58 PM

Superior Customization as an Attachment is basically a premier brand label that sticks onto something. The item benefits through the beliefs of others that brand-name goods are the best.


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#34 bradknowles

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 05:05 PM

Superior Customization as an Attachment is basically a premier brand label that sticks onto something. The item benefits through the beliefs of others that brand-name goods are the best.


Superior Customization actually has a real in-game effect, per RAW. So that’s not just a label you can slap on something and be done with it.

Although, there does come a point where enough parts have been modified or upgraded that you have to wonder if it can still be considered to be the same weapon. See the page in Wikipedia about Grandfather’s Old Axe at https://en.wikipedia...her.27s_old_axe
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Unless stated otherwise, these are just my personal opinions about how I feel things should work.  Even if I quote chapter and verse of a particular rulebook, only the part that's quoted is likely to actually be official.  Each GM will have to decide for themselves what rules they will use and which ones they won't, and how they will interpret the rules they do use.  That is their right -- and their responsibility.

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#35 mouthymerc

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 05:48 PM

 

Superior Customization as an Attachment is basically a premier brand label that sticks onto something. The item benefits through the beliefs of others that brand-name goods are the best.


Superior Customization actually has a real in-game effect, per RAW. So that’s not just a label you can slap on something and be done with it.

 

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#36 Domingo

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 06:13 PM

 

Here is a silly question, but one that I can see my PC's asking eventually.
 
What would be the cost of applying cortosis weave to a ship? :huh:
 
Their ship got hit by a conc missile last session... :D

My guess would be, too f'ing much. Doing your body sized armour would cost 10k(?). Multiply by a 1000(?).

 

 

I think Cortosis is so rare that there's not enough in the galaxy to make it work. 

 

Besides, even if you settle on a price, it's a huge waste of credits.  The only weapons with Breach in the starship scale are missiles, torpedo's and the big ones (battleship-size ion cannons and turbolaser).  Save money and get a slicer that can spoof missile, an ECM (smaller silhouette), more shields (adds defense=more setback), and talents like Tricky Target.


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#37 Daeglan

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 10:45 PM

Lets start with "Stop overthinking it." It is a game.



#38 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 06:44 AM

Depending on the source, cortosis has already been described as being used in vehicles and ships. It is one of the reasons they are more resistant to blasters and such.


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