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Devistators don't requisition the big gun


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#21 WilliamAsher

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:15 PM

Extra Heavy weapons should be issued to the Tactical Marine.  They are trained to take up any role in the KT, and if the KT decides a Lascannon is that role they can do it.  I wouldn't penalize the players, especially if the players are all ok with it and it isn't breaking your game. 


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#22 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 02:54 AM

Given the shooty advances, this is correct, but the Tactical might prefer a combi-bolter or storm bolter. Since there isnt much of a gaming penalty for taking a heavy weapon, how much are you going to interfere with kill-team autonomy?

 

It would have helped if they had given the Apo more melee advances. Then it would have been clear that he is supposed to and capable of going in and getting a marine casualty out. Melee specialties are Assault Marine, Librarian, Techmarine (in that order). Shooting characters are Devastator, Tactical, Techmarine (Weapons-Tech is a b*tch; as usual, I recommend halving all damage bonuses for semi- and full-auto). Apo is neither here nor there - he does have cheap WS but that's not enough. In DW, all that matters is overwhelming the enemy with attacks and having the defences to weather multiple incoming blows.

 

Alex


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#23 Annaamarth

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:05 AM

Of all of the specialties, I think Apo is the most support-oriented one, followed by Lib, Tac and Tech.  Similarly, I think Apo most greatly benefits from an advanced specialty later- but that's just me.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

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#24 ak-73

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:12 AM

I feel like moving Swift Attack down the advances charts - to lower ranks. However, I have given the Apo already a lot and I don't want to feel like candyman GM:

http://40kroleplay.w...-specialty.html

 

Alex


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#25 Drop Bear 2.0

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

In the middle of Oblivion's Edge, our newly added Devastator has opted for a Missie Launcher, Fights that I recall being tough with the Quick Start characters tend to end quickly with Bolter Fire & Frag Missiles chewing up the Mobs and a Krak Missie to the Boss Creatures.

 

I'm worried that with one of the books on my buying list the players will find an Antares Auto-Canon.



#26 Kshatriya

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:37 AM

Well, Devs are designed to chew through Hordes. It's their main job. And Hordes are meant to be a threat, but all too often they bog the session down. Nice when someone can annihilate them quick. :P


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#27 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 06:40 AM

Remember, every player is a marine first and their specialty second.  They've all had training in all astartes weapons.

I think what you're seeing here is the flaw in the requisition rules.  The dev can keep his HB and the team can buy a lascannon at full price. 

Or

The dev can buy the lascannon at full price and lose the HB.

 

Its really weird that RaW don't have some sort of trade up rule for requisition when replacing your starting gear with higher reputation gear



#28 Annaamarth

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:19 AM

This has bothered me in the past. It seems weird that you could requisition the las and then not be able to pass the horde-chewing dakka off to the tacmarine. From that perspective, it seems better to load special loads, HB-boosting mods, defensive gear and grenades galore rather than respeccing from high-RoF damage dealing to one-shot sniping.

 

Interestingly, the Devs ability to spec in BS-related abilities means that he is also ideal for the scout-sniper role if you give him a Camocloak and a stummer. You could sacrifice the HB in favor of a stalker to maximize that role, but then you're no longer doing the part of the Dev- some GMs won't let you haul an HB and a Stalker at the same time, and in any event you're forced to split your potential in requisition terms.

 

This kind of annoys me, I won't lie.


Edited by Annaamarth, 21 May 2014 - 02:20 AM.

RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#29 Kshatriya

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 07:52 AM

 in any event you're forced to split your potential in requisition terms.

 

I was with you til this. With some of the real high-Req missions (home-brew or modules), you can quickly run out of useful gear, and then just hope you can use Inquisitorial assets.



#30 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 10:15 AM

 

 in any event you're forced to split your potential in requisition terms.

 

I was with you til this. With some of the real high-Req missions (home-brew or modules), you can quickly run out of useful gear, and then just hope you can use Inquisitorial assets.

 

 

How much req are you getting?  Heavy weapons are around 30 a piece.  60-70 if you're going master crafted.  Add in some special ammo or demolitions and you're easily breaking 100.



#31 Kshatriya

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:15 AM

I don't usually think about craftsmanship. That's probably a contributor to it. Don't really find it super worthwhile for non-melee weapons now that I look at it again.



#32 Annaamarth

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

 

 in any event you're forced to split your potential in requisition terms.

 

I was with you til this. With some of the real high-Req missions (home-brew or modules), you can quickly run out of useful gear, and then just hope you can use Inquisitorial assets.

 

By the time you get to that point, your renown should be high enough that you can discuss req'ing a Relic HB to go with all of the HB-geared talents you have.

 

But if you have that much req to throw around, the extra req from your 'free' gear becomes a non-issue anyway, thus rendering most of this line of conversation inapplicable. HBs and plasma pistols for everyone!

 

Craftsmanship on high-RoF weapons is a pretty sweet deal.  +2 damage per hit, and never jam?  Yes, please.  This is another way to sink plenty of Req.


RIP AND TEAR THROUGH THE TIDE OF BLOOD WITH BATTLESUIT PILOT. SUPLEX HIVE TYRANTS. DO WHATEVER, YOU'RE PILOTING A HUGE-ASS MECHA.

 -Errant, on how Rogue Trader ought to be played


#33 BrotherHuitztli

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 01:54 PM

PS I am not sure who could and would not permit a librarian to field a Heavy Bolter...

 

I've allowed it, but we didn't have a dev and our librarian was focused more on support than battle. (Avenger being the only combat psy power he had before rank 5)

 

Any way back to the op's question. In most games I've played the tac marine uses the missile launcher while the devastator keeps his H. Bolter or other heavy weapon.



#34 ak-73

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 12:53 PM

In last weekends session, the Dev kept the HB and the Techmarine fielded a MM. It's a terrible combo and a reminder to look at a kill-team not as a RPG party but as a small army.

 

Alex


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#35 Robin Graves

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

Oh wow an apothecary with a heavy bolter: so you are the Heavy AND the Medic?

 

I have absolutly no problem with a tactical marine taking a (requisituioned) heavy weapon.

While we are on the subject of marines having stuff they don't normally have in the miniatures game:

Is it ok if it is mentioned in the background/ novels? Because there is one killteam novel in wich a Mantis warrior space marine with a jump pack rides a space marine bike, rams it into a tyranid monster and uses his jump pack to get clear.

 

For that matter, can a space marine dual wield basic weapons? like say two melta guns?



#36 Lynata

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:27 AM

While we are on the subject of marines having stuff they don't normally have in the miniatures game:

Is it ok if it is mentioned in the background/ novels?

 

That depends entirely on your group. Novels regularly portray Space Marines (and other stuff) differently than the original source material. This game, too, directly contradicts several aspects of GW's original Deathwatch fluff. So it really depends on how closely you as a group want to stick to which source. Just make sure that you are all on common ground! :)

 

Dual-wielding meltas is certainly possible by the game's rules. Personally, I would consider it un-Marinelike and a bit OP, but in the end it is your game!



#37 Visitor Q

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:39 AM

As a GM I would probably grumble a bit about cheese but don't actually think this is hugely overpowered, more a little out of character. 

 

However at the end of the day KIll Teams are unorthodox, if they come up against a situation where it makes sense fot the Librarian to wield the Multi-Melta then it is what it is.

 

As for dual wielding weapons, one of my marines regularly dual wields a flamer and a bolt gun, it is pretty powerful but again this is a KIll Team without much more by way of support.



#38 Dr. Quinn

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:35 AM

Yep, the rules firmly support dual wielding basic weapons, but with anything other than than fully automatic weapons this isn't actually that big of a deal- in almost all situations, firing two weapons on single shot, regardless of their "power" compared to the almighty bolter, will simply get them closer to the damage they would have done had they stuck with a plain old bolter, much less a storm bolter.  What should be noted, though, is that per the rules for dual wielding and full auto fire, though a space marine could walk into battle with two fully auto weapons, they can only fire one weapon on full or semi auto fire.  The other weapon gets a single shot, no more.  This is *exceedingly* important to balance, and ignoring it makes dual wielding storm bolters insanely OP.

 

On the topic of OP dual wielding choices, dual flamers is perhaps a bit OP / cheesy as well, but in my opinion, that's countered by the imagery, and the sheer amount of *awesome* such a choice provides.



#39 Routa-maa

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

Oh wow an apothecary with a heavy bolter: so you are the Heavy AND the Medic?

Pffft.

 

In the end my Dark Angel Apothecary with his Plasma Cannon was quite impressive. As soon as I could I was requisitioning Plasma Weapons.

 

Damn I would have liked that game to continue so I could have been using this combination.

Apothecary+Front.jpg

 

Dark Angels love Plasma weapons. ;)


Muutokselle annamme Elämän, Elämälle annamme Muutoksen.

#40 Robin Graves

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:53 PM

 

 

On the topic of OP dual wielding choices, dual flamers is perhaps a bit OP / cheesy as well, but in my opinion, that's countered by the imagery, and the sheer amount of *awesome* such a choice provides.

 

Now i'm thinking of a space marine going all "nemesis" and wielding a rocket launcher and an assault canon.