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[Rules] Triggered Effects - Clarification


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#1 PeRRaKo

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 05:49 AM

Greetings,

 

We have an issue with the definition of triggered effects.

Some players say that triggered effects are only those who in the card text are preceded by  "Any phase:" "Response:" "Challenges: " "Marshalling: " etc. while other players say that triggered effects are those effects that trigger when a condition is met so there is no need to have the  "Any phase: " etc. words preceding the text.

 

So, what exactly are triggered effects and how can be identified?

 

Thank you in advance.

 



#2 ktom

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:51 AM

The definitions and distinctions between triggered, passive and constant effects are also covered in the FAQ found here.

 

In a nutshell, a "triggered effect" is anything that a player specifically chooses to use. 99 times out of 100, they are identified by the bold timing word/restriction that begin the effect. There are some others, though.

Just because an effect has a "trigger" does not make it a "triggered effect." It is player choice, not the existence of a timing-based play restriction, that defines a "triggered effect." Passive effects usually have some sort of timing-based play restriction or condition that must happen before they can initiate (like "after a challenge resolves" or "at the beginning of the phase"). However, they are obligatory. They happen whether you want them to or not.

One of the best tests for "triggered effect" actually turns out to be whether or not a player can refuse to initiate the effect.

For example, The "after it is killed" effect on House Tyrell Honor Guard is considered a triggered effect, not because it has a timing trigger, but because you don't HAVE to put it into play from your hand after a character is killed if you don't want to. On the other hand, the "after it is killed" effect on Old Red Priest is not considered a triggered effect, despite being "triggered" by the death of the character, because you must kneel the location - you cannot refuse to activate the effect.

 

Hope that makes sense. The distinguishing characteristic of a "triggered effect" ends up being player choice, not time-restricted activation.



#3 PeRRaKo

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:14 AM

Ok, I think I understand.

If the player is able to choose whether to trigger or not the effect if a contition is met then it is a triggered effect.

 

But in the case of a character with the "Vigilant"  keyword, if the player chooses to stand that character after he wins a challenge, is that considered a triggered effect?



#4 Lars

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:26 AM

vigilant is a passive effect (its just granted by a keyword) and there is no choice, once you win a challenge as an attacker all your charcaters with vigilant stand up. Its tricky because the keyword is short hand for an effect.



#5 ktom

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:55 AM

Actually, Vigilant is a bit more complicated than Lars states because the rules for Vigilant say you may stand Vigilant characters after winning the challenge. You actually could choose not to stand a Vigilant character. 

But Vigilant is considered a passive effect, not a triggered effect. The reason why is tricky, so bear with me. It works out like this:

1. You win a challenge.

2. According to the rules for Vigilant, you now must resolve the keyword.

3. Resolving the keyword means you make a choice, for each Vigilant character, to either stand or not stand them (guess which choice people usually make...)

The thing that makes Vigilant a passive effect is #2. You must resolve Vigilant when you win the challenge whether you want to or not. Now, an acceptable resolution of Vigilant is to choose not to stand the character, but when you make that choice, you have still resolved the Vigilant effect. If it were a true triggered effect, you could refuse to resolve it completely. It's a bit confusing because completely refusing to resolve Vigilant and choosing not to stand the character during resolution of the keyword amounts to the same thing (a knelt character). But conceptually, they are very different things. 

It's worth noting that Vengeful and Stealth both have similar elements of "passive choice."

 

So perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that the defining characteristic of a "triggered effect" is player choice concerning whether or not the effect initiates in the first place. Vigilant, Vengeful and Stealth (which are all passive) give the player a choice in how the effect resolves, but there is no choice as to whether or not the effects initiate.



#6 PeRRaKo

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 08:18 AM

Everything is clear now ktom, thank you very much ^_^






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