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Dark Herest Board Game - migrated


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#1 fimarach

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:18 AM

So here is the development of the concept - the rules would be very close to the Descent board game (available free on this website) and would be essentially a very huge mod of this rules engine.

The basis of the game would be Missions (aka Quests) - all of the players but one would be Accolytes assigned a certain mission (aka Quest Fluff) which would have a goal (usually kill the Big Beastie). The remaining player would be the Adversary (aka Overlord) whose task it would be to stop the players from completing their goal. This is pretty much how Descent works. I would be keeping the Threat and Conquest elements of the game.

The main differences from Descent would of course be theme. I have already created and Excel spreadsheet with DH names for each creature basically and slight mods to make them fit in. So a Cult Initiate has the stats of a Kobold, a Rebel Guardsmen has about the stats of a skeleton, and a Psyker has about the stats of a Sorcerer. I also have a list of conversions to convert the Descent Heroes in Accolytes.

My plan is to use the Descent combat rules and combine them with the dice and ammo rules from Doom (I have a weapons and armor list already as well).

So although it might be considered a "spiritual successor" to Space Hulk, the play style would be entirely different.

And it would be nothing like the GW skirmish games Necromunda, Mordheim, Inquisitor, or Gorka Morka (or even the poorly thought out Kill Team scenarios).



#2 fimarach

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:19 AM

Kage2020 wrote:Okay, I'm going to be the one that asks the horrendously obvious question so that you can do the "Duh, obviously..." and come up with a great counter. So, here we go...

Erm, I can understand why you might want to do that, but could not that be construed as reinventing the wheel? You've already got the 40k and Inquisitor skirmish wargames. (Edit: And Space Hulk, Crusade, Doom of the Eldar.) What is a board game going to add?

(This is both a real question and a hook for you to go into more detail about what you do intend!

Kage


Generally the idea WOULD be like Space Hulk in a play sense. However since that game is out of print with no intention of coming back I wouldn't feel bad in echoing it. One of the big reasons you will never see another Space Hulk is that GW refuses to discount any of the figures that might be contained in such a game (ie 5 SM Terminators costs $50 and 10 Genestealers is $35 so you have $85 for the core game before you even add in components).

However Inquisitor has another possibility when it comes to figs -

1.Accolytes can really be ANY human in the 40k universe. Therefore any player figures (as the game would center around the Accoyltes just like DH) would have very little impact/value on the 40k tabletop game. Think about it - at best the Accolytes might be like a box of Last Chancers but in low quality plastic. And most of the figs that would be Accolytes are either Necromunda or OOP.

2. Enemies in Space Hulk would be your biggest expense figure-wise. However an Inquisitor most often doesn't fight those enemies. His accolytes are going to battle things like mutants, cultists, psykers, and more obscure aliens like Lacrymoles or Psy-Gore. Though some of these figs have been released in the past there are almost none in the current model line. Its not like you can have a 40k Psychenuin army. I think these would make great enemies and I have a list of potential threats that would probably not cross over at all with the current model line (barring Forge World and certain OOP models).

So there is one main difference from SH - the other being that in SH you don't get the chance to have a variety of equipment. To a Space Marine having a bolter is NBD but to a Guardsman, Arbiter, or Assassin that is a darn good weapon. So you have the chance to have "treasures" for the adventure game.

Third big difference - SH is essential a small scale skirmish game with lots of terrain. My idea is for a Fighting/Adventure game where multiple players each play one character. This also differentiates my idea from Necromunda and the (HORRIBLE!!) Inquisitor skirmish game. The game would be wholly different being a board game version of a Dark Heresy game.

Fourth big difference - Having a party of adventurers is completely different than having allies in a 40k game. An adventure RPG board game lets 3-6 people have fun at a table.

Fifth big difference - no one has to own an army to play this board game. Well except those who are playtesting it for now.



#3 fimarach

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 07:28 AM

Okay current update to the board game - I have completed a list of 30 potential threats (60 if you count the "experienced" versions of each) split neatly into Hereticus, Malleus, and Xenos. 

I have used the DH rulebook as a source (I look forward to adding some ideas from Disciples and Creature Anathema in the future) along with along of Wiki searches and my own personal knowledge of the 40k universe.

This should be a workable list of basic "monsters" to face for the average quest/mission.

I also have a decently comprehensive list of rules for weapons based on the Inquisitor's handbook, DH rulebook, and similar above sources.

Lastly I have a list of about 40 Accolyte characters to choose from, who are basically direct conversions of Descent characters.

I have two big tasks in fron of me - developing "adversary" cards and the skill sets.  I have decided to expound on Descent's skill sets and have six divisions Fighting/Augmetics, Rogue/Shooter, and Psychic/Scholar - I am going to see if I can make those work.

If I can get those two (large) tasks done I will be doing my very first playtest this Friday.



#4 Gallagen

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 12:45 PM

Wow! Keep up the good work, I am very interested about this.



#5 Dark Reign

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:27 AM

Maybe this link has some useful stuff you can use for your board game:

http://www.runboard....atchquest40k.f2



#6 fimarach

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:59 AM

Okay new update - I have copied and pasted the Descent rules section and I am 25% done with converting those rules to my new board game.

 

Here is some of the big differences from Descent so far:

1. Terminology - I have replaced probably 90% of the terminology changing magic to psychic, monster to minion, Overlord to adversary and so forth.

2. Ammo rules - the Ammunition rules from Doom have been added in as well use of the Doom dice.  Eventually I might try to order custom dice from Chessex or some other companies I deal with for the prototype.

3. Fear Rules -  Fear will be represented by a token which is placed on a character based on circumstances (I have in mind what those will be such as running out of ammo while fighting a Daemonhost).  Fear tokens add to the overall Threat pool that the Adversary has available and just having a Fear token makes you vulnerable to certain special cards and abilities.

4. Alert Level - I have created some concepts regarding how much the enemy is on alert with the Acolytes "in the wire".  For example the Green Alert level is just when the Minions are on patrol just watching for trouble and not aware that anything is out of the ordinary.  While at this level, the Adversary only draws one card and can only spawn 1 minion card per turn.  As soon as the Alert Level goes to Yellow, the minions are on Caution and are aware that something is out of the ordinary.  At Yellow the Adversary can draw two cards and use two minion spawn cards.  This is a concept that Kill Team tried to have and never succeeded with. 

  The Alert Level is useful for multiple reasons.  For one the difficulty of the game becomes far more scaleable which I think will be able to change to game so that anywhere from 2-8 players can play and still be challenging (I hope).  Second I might be able to make quests more balanced (by having the Alert Level go up when chests are opened) so that at the very least there will be more cannon fodder.  Third it fits in with the theme, as the minions are more likely to notice an 8 man raiding party than they are to notice two lone individuals.  Fifth it adds a possible "stealth element" to the game which could be an interesting twist.  Finally it helps contribute to the "time clock" feel of the game which I think is cool.



#7 fimarach

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:09 AM

Some of the possible speed bumps I have so far encountered:

1. I have no idea what to call this game other than "Dark Heresy Board Game".   Something about purging the heretics comes to mind but is not well defined in an interesting and original way.

2. Actual minis for the game, or cardboard standees - I am trying to conceive of very inexpensive ways to get models for the game to represent the 30 Threats that I have in mind.  I am considering cardboard standees as a good substitute but I don't know where to get the little plastic stands cheaply.  This will require some research.

3. I am still trying to coordinate my ideas for psychic characters so that I can balance them with melee and ranged characters.  Descent solves this by having wizards use "runes" and "staves" to cast magic spells, which take up hands and having armor resrict the use of those items (thus the "wizards" generally don't use armor or swords).  My game will have to come up with a different solution.  Currently I am thinking of replacing "runes and staves" with "psy focus" which would be the easiest solution.

 



#8 Gallagen

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:02 PM

Name Ideas - 'For the Emperor!' , 'Guilty are the Innocent' , 'Defenders of the Light' , 'Servants of the Inquisition' , 'The Emperors Chosen', 'Those that have Nothing, still have their Lives to give ',  Thats all for now....

Start with Cardboard Standees - If the game gets to the right point think about minis then (easier to playtest) + Easy to get images of the net and/or get them photoshopped.

Psyfocus is a great idea, work on it and tell us your ideas :) I would suggest that there be Psy character specific items (armour, other items ,etc) that also use psyfocus to give it a bit more range/depth. I don't know what is in Dark Heresy as i haven't got it yet.

I would also love to playtest this if put in a word document, pdf, etc.

Looking forward to any/all updates!



#9 David Spangler

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 01:10 AM

Yes, this definitely has my attention, too.



#10 fimarach

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:51 AM

Okay I have gotten done with Psyker rules and what my ideas for Perils will be (basically if you miss, roll a die and there is a one-in-six chance you will gain a Corruption token) and I have a whole set of skill cards for them now, I also have a decent list for the Augmetics skills (although I can see some bugs in line with the setting), and I have created a whole set of actually quite powerful Scholar skills for the Adepts.  I will soon be moving on to Rogue and Shooting skills (today).

I have finished the Copper Treasures listing and I am ready to do a Silver listing - after that I just have to fashion an actual mission setting using the pieces and I am ready to go.

The rulebook conversion is coming along, though slowly - its hard doing this all as a one man band.  Sorry for those who might want to see all my rules.

I am not sure yet how or where to post this stuff so everyone can see.  I am rather HTML illiterate I am sad to say and it is all in a series of Word documents.



#11 fimarach

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:55 AM

BTW still have no name and I want something with one or at most two words.  "Heretic", "Inquisition", "Fire and Steel" and "Purge" are all high on the list but not snazzy and different enough from what has come before.



#12 Graver

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:07 AM

How about:

Heresy! (see, it has an exclamation point- that's snazzy and different ;-) )

or

Grimdark: The Bordgame (that's just not used enough in titles)



#13 Dark Reign

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 10:50 AM

It would be no trouble hosting the files on Dark Reign and maybe create a new board on the Dark Reign forum called "Board games" or something where people can discuss your rules.



#14 fimarach

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 07:55 PM

Ok I'll start putting stuff up there...I am working on a usable rule book for those that have not played descent ...

 

I must say I did not realize the workload for one person in putting together this conversion.  Alot of things to think about and so many small things to change.

 

I am trying to get the first playtest scenario ready and actually have people play and I have hit another snag...printing costs!!  There 6 decks of skills alone with 4 pages each, 9 pages of market items, 9 pages each of Copper, Silver, and Gold Treasure items...78 pages and I don't even have character sheets yet!!  So I will have to disappoint my playtest group again until I can get more ink and business card stock to print everything out...

 

A minor snag as well has been getting 40k artwork that fits my needs - I know those at FFG feel my pain....they are always trying to recycle artwork in the best way possible....also not a whole lot of easy to find pics of "Glavian Needler" or "Carapace Armor"...so for now I am using some comic book art I grabbed off wiki for card backs on the different sets.  Front art can come later.

 

Does anyone know where I can find a site that has Inquisitor Standees?  I know Steve Jackson Games has some...but I don't think any are suitable there.  And yes I know there use to be paper dreadnoughts and such with the old Rogue trader from 20 years ago but its not like I have those lying around.



#15 fimarach

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 04:11 AM

Name Concept!!

Darkest Hour



#16 Gallagen

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 10:46 AM

fimarach said:

Name Concept!!

Darkest Hour

Nice!






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