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cannot be saved vs. duplicates


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#1 Old Ben

Old Ben

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 10:09 PM

madsb:



Hi,
I searched quite a bit for info on this in the FAQ, but to no awail. Hope some of you experts might be able to help.

Is sacrificing a duplicate character considered saving said character? In other words: if a character is killed in a way that "cannot be saved" will this include sacrificing a duplicate?

Thanks!

mads



Munckin_Micih:


madsb wrote:
Hi,
I searched quite a bit for info on this in the FAQ, but to no awail. Hope some of you experts might be able to help.

Is sacrificing a duplicate character considered saving said character? In other words: if a character is killed in a way that "cannot be saved" will this include sacrificing a duplicate?

Thanks!

mads


That's correct, if an effect is "cannot be saved" your duplicate is worthless. It says somewhere in the FAQ that a duplicate gives the card it is attached to the text: Any phase: discard the duplicate from play to save attached card from being killed or discarded.



madsb:


Had the feeling it would be so, but wanted to make sure. Thank you.

m




staton_70:


I just wanted to add that as of Five Kings Edition, you can now discard a dupe to save the card from being returned to hand or put in the deck.



berto:


If we are here then I ask maybe obvious question.
When I need to kill one character eg after Military challenge. Can I choose one with duplicate and safe it automatically?



ktom:


berto wrote:
If we are here then I ask maybe obvious question.
When I need to kill one character eg after Military challenge. Can I choose one with duplicate and safe it automatically?

The primary answer is "yes." Since dupes can save characters from being killed, that means they can save characters from being killed for Military claim.

"Automatically" might be a bit of an overstatement, though. Dupes do need to be triggered. For example, you could choose NOT to save a character with a dupe on it (say, because you want it to die since you have a From Winter's Touch Returned in your hand and you'd like that character to be CBK). And since they do need to be triggered (in the same place that you'd use any "save" Response), they can also be canceled.



Invierno:

What happen when I cancel the triggered of the dupe (i.e: The Queen of Thorns)? The character dies and the duplicates are discarted?


ktom:



Invierno wrote:
What happen when I cancel the triggered of the dupe (i.e: The Queen of Thorns)? The character dies and the duplicates are discarted?

Yup. It's no different than if any other save is canceled.




Lars:


Invierno wrote:
What happen when I cancel the triggered of the dupe (i.e: The Queen of Thorns)? The character dies and the duplicates are discarted?


also if there are more than one dupes and the first one is canceled the first dupe still goes to the discard pile, but if you get the second dupe triggered (that goes to discard as well) the character is still alive.




Invierno:


Thank you very much for the quick answer ^_^
Lars wrote:
also if there are more than one dupes and the first one is canceled the first dupe still goes to the discard pile, but if you get the second dupe triggered (that goes to discard as well) the character is still alive.

That´s a good point, because I was sure all the duplicates were discarted and the character dies >_<U



Seznal:


I was under the impression that when one save is canceled the char is moribound and goes to deadpile no matter what, so you cannot try to save with another save?



Mauve Butterfly:


Seznal wrote:
I was under the impression that when one save is canceled the char is moribound and goes to deadpile no matter what, so you cannot try to save with another save?


You are probably thinking of the "limit one response per trigger" rule, which tells us that we can only trigger a given response one time each time its trigger occurs. But this doesn't prevent you from using multiple distinct responses.

So, if one of your saves is cancelled you could still trigger another save to save that character (for instance, another duplicate, Maester Wendamyr, Icy Helm etc…). If you were saving a Thrice-Drowned Veteran using his own ability, and his ability was cancelled, you could not trigger his ability again (limit once per trigger) but you could trigger another save response to save him.

Because the timing of saves and cancels is the same, you could actually try a different method of "saving" the character. If your save is cancelled, you could cancel the effect that killed your character in the first place. Or you could cancel the effect canceling your save.

The character only becomes moribund once all saves and cancels responding to the effect that is making the character moribund have resolved.



FuriousG:


So does that mean that the only real benefit of having multiple versions of Asha Greyjoy from the ITE would be the likelihood to draw them?

If I understand this, the "cannot be saved" in the text would make playing the duplicate useless.


ktom:



FuriousG wrote:
So does that mean that the only real benefit of having multiple versions of Asha Greyjoy from the ITE would be the likelihood to draw them?

If I understand this, the "cannot be saved" in the text would make playing the duplicate useless.

Correct. The fact that ITE-Asha cannot be saved means that dupes do nothing for her. You could always blank her if you think you'll need to save her, I suppose.

 






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