Jump to content



Photo

Marksmanship - Can You choose to change Eye results to Hit results only?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 Miko

Miko

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:47 AM

Marksmanship
Action: When attacking this round, you may change 1 of your Focus results to a Critical Hit result and all your other Focus results to Hit results.


So can You change Eyes to hits only, if You don't want to Crit?

  • Daveydavedave likes this

#2 nimdabew

nimdabew

    Member

  • Members
  • 637 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:23 AM

I read it as yes. "You may" implies you don't have to if you don't want to. I think it is in the rulebook somewhere, but I don't know where exactly.  

 

Roll: (eye) (eye) (eye)

 

You may change 1 (eye) to a crit, but choose not to. You may then change all the remaining (eyes) (3 of them) to hits. 



#3 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,388 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:37 AM

In this case it really depends on where the implied parenthesis are:

You may (change one [eyeball] to [crit] and all other [eyeball] to [hit])

vs

You may change (one [eyebal to crit]) and (all other [eyeball] to [hit]).

 

Basically, you can read the two as linked.  The may is optional, but if you're changing all other to hits you must have also changed one to a crit.  Or you could potentially read them as unlinked.  That is, you may do A and you may do B, but they're independent of each other.  For what it's worth, I'd tend to read the "all other" part of the phrase as linking the two, meaning that if you choose to apply the effect you will get a crit result out of it.


  • CrookedWookie likes this

#4 DoubleNot7

DoubleNot7

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,259 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:51 AM

Holy crap, sometimes it sound like a 40K tournament around here cangrejo

 

I'd say you may change one eyeball to a crit and otehrs to hit or you may do nothing at all and keep your roll.


  • Forensicus and nurglez like this

Enimo Et Fide


#5 Miko

Miko

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:29 AM

I'm more twords dbmeboy statment, and I'm not happy about it.
 
My question gets from this that i had 2 tournament in which Houlraner with Determination discarded 2 crits. I would to prefere to have normal hits, not crits while firing at him :)


#6 Filthy Pierre

Filthy Pierre

    Member

  • Members
  • 101 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 01:01 PM

Exactly what nimdabew said.

If it says you may change, it doesn't mean you have to.

Just don't change it to a crit then change all other focus results (all of them now) to normal hits.

 

Nice work around on the crit removing abilities. :-)

 

 

 


If you don't feed trolls they die.

Don't judge on stats alone, play test it for a few games.


#7 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,388 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:20 PM

Miko said:
I'm more twords dbmeboy statment, and I'm not happy about it.
 
My question gets from this that i had 2 tournament in which Houlraner with Determination discarded 2 crits. I would to prefere to have normal hits, not crits while firing at him :)
Easy workaround for that problem: take a focus action instead of Marksmanship when you think that you might fire at a ship with Determination and don't want the crit.

#8 Miko

Miko

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:36 PM

Focus isn't a good solution if You have Han and Gunner.



#9 Buhallin

Buhallin

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,860 posts

Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

I would agree with dbmeboy, and will add another reason to arrive at the same interpretation.

If you apply the "may" only to the critical portion, then the hit portion has no "may", meaning it's mandatory.  It's possible that's what it's supposed to be, but I consider it highly unlikely.  The only mandatory dice change effect we have at the moment is the HLC, and it's very clearly worded to indicate that.

 



#10 Bolder

Bolder

    Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

Miko, can you explain why focus isn't a good option with Han and gunner? Or anyone else for that matter explain it. I'm a new player looking to just expand their knowledge

#11 Miko

Miko

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:44 AM

Focus can be used only once, and Han can potentially roll 4 times on attack during one turn (1 attack, reroll, 2 attack [gunner], reroll).
Marksmanship is not a token, it can’t be spend. its persistent ability that is in effect whole turn, so you can use it in all 4 rolls.



#12 Bolder

Bolder

    Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:54 PM

Thanks for the knowledge,

 

Just to play out a scenario where that would be necessary:

 

-Action, Marksmanship

 

Attack phase:

 

-Han rolls, doesn't like it

-Han rerolls: 2 focus icons and a hit. Han uses markmanship to change focus dice to 1 crit 1 hit (Dice now show total 1 crit, 2 hit), target rolls 2 evade, 1 focus (he played focus action earlier), uses focus to change focus into another evade, therefore attack doesn't hit, allowing gunner to come into play.

 

-Han rolls via gunner, doesn't like it,

-Han rerolls 1 crit, 2 focus, uses markmanship again (2 Crit 1 Hit) and now with the target not having any defensive action leftover he relies strictly on raw rolls as defense.

 

This pretty much the correct scenario?


Edited by Bolder, 10 July 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#13 Miko

Miko

    Member

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:57 PM

Yes



#14 Chrome

Chrome

    Member

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

He catches on quickly.  :)



#15 KineticOperator

KineticOperator

    Member

  • Members
  • 775 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

*Deleted*


Edited by KineticOperator, 18 July 2013 - 04:51 PM.


#16 Buhallin

Buhallin

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,860 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

Q:
If a ship uses the Marksmanship action and attacks with Cluster Missiles, does the Marksmanship effect modify both attacks?
A:
Yes. The Marksmanship effect modifies each attack made by that ship during the round, including the effect of changing one {Eyeball} result to a {Critical Hit} result.

 

I think that should about cover it, no?


  • Forensicus likes this

#17 Parakitor

Parakitor

    Member

  • Members
  • 989 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Q:
If a ship uses the Marksmanship action and attacks with Cluster Missiles, does the Marksmanship effect modify both attacks?
A:
Yes. The Marksmanship effect modifies each attack made by that ship during the round, including the effect of changing one {Eyeball} result to a {Critical Hit} result.

 

I think that should about cover it, no?

Oh, good catch. I was really worried that people would start opting to not turn the first [Focus] to a [crit]. It just seemed wrong to me, and now you've found good evidence to back that up.


"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#18 KineticOperator

KineticOperator

    Member

  • Members
  • 775 posts

Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

I would throw my 2 cents in behind both Dbmeboy and Buhallin.  Grammatically "may" should refer to the entire effect.  Otherwise, it should be worded with "may" a second time.

 

Unfortunately, FFG isn't as careful with grammar as we all wish it would be sometimes, to say the least.  But it still makes sense to me that you "may" choose to get a single crit and the rest hits, or you "may" choose not to change any of the results, but that you may not choose to simply change all results to hit.


Edited by KineticOperator, 31 July 2013 - 10:46 AM.

  • CrookedWookie likes this

#19 Forensicus

Forensicus

    Member

  • Members
  • 495 posts

Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:41 AM

So are we all (or most of us) "agreeing" on that youMUST change the first [Focus] into a [Crit]?? 

 

In my world/understanding the card's wording is okay clear to me, and if you do not change the first [Focus] to the [Crit] then you can't perform the rest of the card's ability since it says "and all other [Focus]..."

 

And to all that feels annoyed by the fact that such a [Crit] might be negated by "Determination" and/or Chewie Crew card, well that is just part of the game and actually it is EXACTLY why your opponen chose that upgrade card. 

 

Life (and gaming) is often not fair towards you....


2014 X-Wing Regional Champion (CPH, Denmark)

 Fleet: 1 x [YT-1300] -  5 x [X-Wing] - 4 x [A-Wing] -2 x [Y-Wing] - 2 x [HWK-290] - 4 x [B-Wing] - 1 x [Transport] - 1 x [Tantive IV]: 2 x [Firespray-31] - 8 x [Tie Fighters] - 6 x [Tie Interceptor] - 3 x [Tie Advanced] - 3 x [TIE-Bomber] - 3 x [Lambda Shuttle]

"Hangars": BattleFoam P.A.C.K. 432 & P.A.C.K. 216 with custom & pluck foams "Battlefields": 3 x Gale Force 9 Mats


#20 Amarel

Amarel

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:52 AM

 

Marksmanship
Action: When attacking this round, you may change 1 of your Focus results to a Critical Hit result and all your other Focus results to Hit results.


So can You change Eyes to hits only, if You don't want to Crit?

 

 

As per other comments, it's impossible to separate the Critical Hit component of the sentence from the Hit component without re-writing the whole sentence.


  • Forensicus likes this




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS