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No more d20 for me!


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#1 poopgrinder

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

There really is a point to all of this, please read on (I am hoping that this is the right forum to post something like this in) :D

Ok, to start out this topic, let me say this- EotE has changed my RPing outlook forever. My experience has been AD&D 2nd edition, very little SAGA and of course, years of 3.5. So, let me grab my soapbox and get to work-

So, as you can see from what I have played, the only system I have ever really known has been d20. And lets call a d20 system what it really is- a turned based strategy combat game with some story telling in between. This is something that I have hated about playing RPG's for YEARS!!! Not to mention all the amounts of rules that just bog a game to a complete halt. "Oh, you're gonna do that? Let's see, that's a uhh…… Oh, that's a -2 to your roll. Oh, but you did this as well, so then that's a +4". It never ends. I'm sure that there are rules somewhere for a character picking their nose. But again, it's the only system I have ever known.

Now for the good talk- I just bought the EotE beginner box, read through the first adventure, about half of the rulebook that came with it and  I LOVE THE SYSTEM!!! It very much so seems like a "lets keep things moving and so long as the GM has a bit of logical thinking, it will run smoothly" (I could say a lot more positive things, but they are all things you've heard before) system.

So, the point to all of this? I do love fantasy settings as well, as do my players. So, I have been looking at a system that seems to be like the EotE system- Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (WFRP). My question to all of you is this- Does WFRP offer the same type of fantasy setting that a say D&D setting does? Things such as dragons, mind flayers, beholders and such? I know it won't have "mind flayers" or "beholders" but I think and hope you understand what I'm getting at. I just want the EotE system but it a fantasy setting and am really hoping that I can get a little feedback before I drop $100 on a setting that I won't like. I have done a fair amount of research (fantasy flights website, youtube) and I can't seem to come up with a solid answer other than "it's the warhammer setting".

Thanks in advance for any help here!


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#2 Yepesnopes

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:34 PM

Warhammer 3 has a system which is similar to the one in EotE, but it is by no means the same.

Said that, the setting is very good, it is the best part of the game. The Warhammer setting is dark fantasy, which means that the average character is not the typicall Paladin, but he/she will have more shades of grey. Don't worry though, you will have typical things like dragons, orcs, deamons, undead, wizards, priests and the like. The only thing "bad" is that the game does not have many magic items, indeed there are only a very few magic items (none in the core box), and of very low power.

Cheers,

Yepes


The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#3 Emirikol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:46 AM

The world of Warhammer is based directly on the Fantasy Battles game.

It is traditionally dark, grim, and a meatgrinder for players who think that they're in D&D.

Healing is sparse, combats are short and deadly, and you are constantly surrounded by conspiring bad guys who are using you only to later have you attempt to kill yourself off at the hands of their enemies.

There are no good guys.   There are only shades of poop-stain brown down to the darkest black.

Sure, anything could go in a this setting.  Technically there are supposedly unicorns somewhere in the woods of the Athel Loren, but to get to them you have to get past xenophobic wood elves that ACTUALLY steal and kill human babies (if they don't use them as experiments to see if they can be trained for bizarre sorts of magic).

 

I personally like the system.  It is the original, advanced version of Edge of the Empire.  Instead of just the fancy dice, you've got Special Abilities that characters can have beyond Talents.  There is also a lot more dice fluidity as your character can choose to be more reckless or cautious in his actions. We've found it easy to house-rule anything that we want to change, because it's not a rigid-rules system.  Everything is based on what feels right at the time.

 

It's a far cry from the rules-heavy D&D or Pathfinder games where everything is over-defined, and over-ruled to the minutae and miniscule.  5' step and flanking?  Yea, you don't have to do this in WFRP because you're already assumed to be doing that. 

 

The big difference between the EotE rules and WFRP3 rules is that characters have more options and special abilities in WFRP3.  In EotE, you can melee or ranged strike.  That's it.  in WFRP3, you also can have a gazaillion special abilities to choose from.  There are a lot more customization options for a WFRP3 character.  With that comes tracking of how many rounds until you're in position to use those special abilities again though.  EotE has tracking of Strain.  In WFRP3 it is fatigue (physical strain) and stress (mental strain).  For players who just want to show up and not have to participate, simpler systems that don't require players to pay attention are a better choice than WFRP3.  In WFRP3 you can customize your active talent, your Special Actions, how much you want to spend on stress or fatigue to do things faster, and also how reckless or cautious you want to be (as mentioned above).  You can also house rule so that you just have melee/ranged strike, no talent tracking, no stance tracking, and no special actions as well and the game doesn't break without using any of those things because the difficulty is left up to the GMs whim.

 

Evidently they've got HUGE additional plans for additional announcements this game later in the year with all kinds of new supplments including Skaven, Greenskins, etc., so look forward to lots happening in the WFRP3 line.

 

If you want to try out the dice, here's a couple links:  http://laakmann.free.fr/wfrp/    http://brokentome.co...DiceRoller.aspx

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

 



#4 Yepesnopes

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:26 AM

Emirikol said:

 the system.  It is the original, advanced version of Edge of the Empire.

I disagree on that, you already know burla

Warhammer 3 has more tokens, dice, cards and the like, which indeed produces the effect that the player has more choices. Still this does not make it a more advanced RPG. In that sense, D&D 3.X, 4… would be even a more advanced RPG.

Indeed, EotE includes things like the Character Obligations and the Character Motivations that, in my opinion, aim for a more advanced RPG. Although it is true that the system has been trimed down from Warhammer 3 to the new EotE, it has been done in a way that the role playing and narrative component of the system has been enhanced.

My thoughts.

Yepes


The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#5 Emirikol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:43 AM

To clarify, I mean 'advanced' in that it requires more player participation in the mechanics of the game.  Its more than just rolling a die and applying damage (such as is in d20 pre-4eD&D games).  There's more to track with more options.  But, a player can always just use melee/ranged strike and only use simple skill checks without ever going into stance and ignore talents completely if they choose and pretty much play at the EotE level.

The things that genarlly can't be ignored are:

  • Fatigue/stress tracking
  • The varied differences between regular wounds and critical wounds
  • insanities
  • diseases
  • mutations
  • corruption
  • conditions

Most of the other stuff can be house ruled down to make it a less advanced game.  In our games we have some of those things that we give token regard to:  party sheets, rally step, socketing, etc., but don't actually use them.

 

Best,

 

jh



#6 poopgrinder

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:07 PM

Well, I must say. Seeing the two of you go back and forth a bit REALLY makes me want to try this system!!! I like that its been stated that it is a grim, dark setting and that evety encounter is a dangerous one. Limited healing is VERY appealing cause you know how d20 goes- "Holy crap, that (insert monster) just tore you apart!" "Ehh, thats ok, here, you're healed by one cubic ass-ton and may carry on! No need to ever worry about an encounter, unless the GM put something WAY too strong in front of us!" I strive to have my players actually "worry" about an encounter again and maybe think about running for a change.


"Do or do not... There is no...... Ahh, the hell with it. Try it or don't, I really don't care!"

 

Check out my podcast- www.thegatheringofdorks.com


#7 Vasquia

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:28 PM

The best part with the warhammer world is the skavens. The rat-people that lives in a realm below the human settlements and constantly are scheming against themselves and everyone else. An awesome race that the orginal creators really managed to spice up the world. Further i love the chaos influence this world has to offer, in the way that the darkness works behind closed door, from the simple peasants barn into the corridors of noble power, constantly trying to overthrow the world of men, dwarves and elves.

System-wise we have played a campaign for 3 years making our character epic at the moment. But here we got tons of action cards/talents making it hard to keep track on. Next campaign that we are going to roll will be with the star-wars system, getting rid of actioncards/talents etc and introduce these actions/talents as passives and by rolling triumphs or wasting strain. Example you might trigger shield bash, knocking your target to his ass when rolling a triumph and suffer 1 strain and if lucky getting 2 triumph you could both shield bash (if invested in this talent/action) and strike him with a cleave hitting a second foe. Further EotE-system provides force-dices that we are going to let wizards and clerics to use, making their spells become 1 dice-roll instead of 2.

 

But to sum up, i totally agree with you, after testing tons of games over 25 years, Wfrp is in my opinion the best system and by far the funniest/most intresting world to both play and Game mastering in


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#8 Keeop

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

I run 2 rpg groups. One for EotE and the other for WHFR 3rd edition. We're in love. I don't see us going back to the Old School titles any time soon. If anyone gets a grid-based combat itch we break out Descent. If I need a breather week for additional prep we do a one-off Fate game. Otherwise these two titles take the cake for my table.

I'm personally thrilled about running both of these games and can't wait to see what FFG unleashes on us in the coming years.



#9 Gallows

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:42 AM

Yepesnopes said:

Emirikol said:

 

 the system.  It is the original, advanced version of Edge of the Empire.

 

 

I disagree on that, you already know burla

Warhammer 3 has more tokens, dice, cards and the like, which indeed produces the effect that the player has more choices. Still this does not make it a more advanced RPG. In that sense, D&D 3.X, 4… would be even a more advanced RPG.

Indeed, EotE includes things like the Character Obligations and the Character Motivations that, in my opinion, aim for a more advanced RPG. Although it is true that the system has been trimed down from Warhammer 3 to the new EotE, it has been done in a way that the role playing and narrative component of the system has been enhanced.

My thoughts.

Yepes

 

I agree and I never liked WFRP3 because it felt "advanced".

 

Edge of the empire feels like a more solid system to me and it's more like an evolution of the WFRP system as I see it.



#10 Delwyn

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:22 PM

The best part with the warhammer world is the skavens. The rat-people that lives in a realm below the human settlements and constantly are scheming against themselves and everyone else. An awesome race that the orginal creators really managed to spice up the world.

 

You've obviously been drinking too much of Bugman's XXXX there Vasquia - all right-minded, Sigmar fearing folk know that there's no such thing as rat-men living below the cities of the Empire!


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