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Nikola Tesla Question


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#1 winteriscoming

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

I love the new Nikola Tesla card from The Key and the Gate, and I'm trying to build a deck around it. Can anyone help me clarify his forced response:

"After you trigger an effect from your discard pile, put a success token on Nikola Tesla."

Does this mean that the effect being triggered has to come from a card that is currently in the discard pile (like Yithian Scout), or could this relate to effects that effect your discard pile?

I'm guessing it's the former, but I just want to be sure before I start building a deck that doesn't work :)



#2 jhaelen

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

winteriscoming said:

"After you trigger an effect from your discard pile, put a success token on Nikola Tesla."

Does this mean that the effect being triggered has to come from a card that is currently in the discard pile (like Yithian Scout), or could this relate to effects that effect your discard pile?

I think the text is quite unambiguous. The effect must be triggered from a card in your discard pile.



#3 IcyCat

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

So, does that mean that Living Mummy triggers puts a counter on Tesla?



#4 jhaelen

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:43 AM

I would think so, yes.



#5 Saint7

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:50 AM

I too love the Key and The Gate cards and I have built a deck around Nikola Tesla. Would Living Mummy qualify according to Tesla's conditions? I find the answer not so clear.

 

Jhaelen, obviously you play the game a lot and you help so many people on this forum so you are more experienced at rules lawyering than I am. Perhaps I am wrong. But Living Mummy says:

 

"Forced Response: After Living Mummy enters your discard pile from play, wound all characters."

 

To me, this is open to interpretation but I don't think the Mummy's ability here qualifies. The wounding of all characters only happens as a result of moving the Living Mummy from play to the discard pile. It is not an effect that is triggered BECAUSE the Mummy was IN the discard pile.

If we look at Yithian Scout or other cards similar to it in the Key & The Gate, they clearly mark it with the end phrase: "This effect can only be triggered from your discard pile" which points to things like Tesla's ability.

Like I said, I could be totally wrong and don't mind if I'm proven to be.

Edit: the reason I placed a Living Mummy in my "Great Race of Yith" deck was so that it could DESTROY Tesla, so I don't really care about Tesla surviving and receiving a success token anyways.


Edited by Saint7, 18 July 2013 - 10:56 AM.

~*~
Le monde tourne sur mes roues, je pédale sous les chaudrons
Je file sous les constellations sans faire trop attention
Et si ça se trouve, je ne rêve à rien...


#6 HilariousPete

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

I've got to side with Jhaelen here - the Mummy's effect is triggered in the discard pile, and that's all that counts. The reason why the Mummy got there is irrelevant.

 

Yithian Scout has his text to limit his effect to be only triggered in the discard pile. It's meant as a limitation, not a clarification regarding Tesla. (There are some effects that may be triggered in discard pile and from somewhere else - see Stalking Hound: "Response: After an opponent's character enters play due to a triggered effect, put Stalking Hound in play from your hand or discard pile.")
 

Or does the confusion come from a timing problem? Here p. 16 of the FAQ 3.0 is helpful. The timing structure for an Action (e.g. if the Mummy entered the discard pile because of a Shotgun Blast "Action: Choose and wound a character with skill X or lower.") is like this:

1. Action is initiated.
2. Disrupts
3. Action is executed.
4. Passive abilities

5. Forced Responses

   I. Forced Response ability is triggered.
   II. Disrupts
   III. Forced Response is executed. (Follow steps I through V, etc.)
   IV. Passive abilities are initiated.
   V. Other forced response (requirements now met) are initiated.
6. Responses
7. End of Action

 

The Shotgun blast is an Action and is resolved in step 3 (-> the Mummy goes into the discard pile in step 3). This satisfies the Mummy's Forced Response, wich triggers in step 5.I and wounds all characters in step 5.III. This satisfies Tesla's Forced Response that puts a success token on him in step 5.V.

 

I hope I could help you with that... timing in CoC is a subtle thing wich takes some time to understand, but afterward frees the player from thinking about the stack as other card games use it (e.g. MtG). FFG's card designers clearly indicate at which time you might play a card (there are some really tough exceptions of course). By this, designers take some mental work off from you. Constructs like Disrupts and Forced Reponses and Responses also exist in games with a stack, but you as the player have to "parse" each card's text correctly and watch out for subtleties like present tense vs. past tense and so on...

 

Kind Regards - and have fun with the game  :) 

Pete


Edited by HilariousPete, 18 July 2013 - 11:29 AM.

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#7 Saint7

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:43 AM

you provide a solid counterargument, Pete.

Now I have to give Mr. Tesla some 'Toughness' if I want the Living Mummy's ability to grant him a Success Token. :) Cheers!


~*~
Le monde tourne sur mes roues, je pédale sous les chaudrons
Je file sous les constellations sans faire trop attention
Et si ça se trouve, je ne rêve à rien...


#8 HilariousPete

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

Oh absolutely. I totally overlooked that issue ;)



#9 Pac_Man3D

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:41 AM

This might be exploiting the old rules as written versus rules as intended loophole, but try Whateley's Diary while Tesla is in play, along with any cards you might have with the Fated keyword. Ouch.



#10 badash56

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:11 AM

This might be exploiting the old rules as written versus rules as intended loophole, but try Whateley's Diary while Tesla is in play, along with any cards you might have with the Fated keyword. Ouch.

 

I don't believe that actually works.  This is from the FAQ, but the same idea applies to Tesla.

 

Can I use Whateley’s Diary (Foregotten Lore
F77)to move 5 success tokens on Ritual of
Summoning and 5 more success tokens on
Ritual of the Lance, to automatically win 2
stories?
No. Whateley’s Diary asks for you to
redistribute your success tokens onto
story cards in play. Redistribute means to
take from one set of sources and place
them in new amounts amongst that same
set of sources.



#11 Hybrid

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:26 AM

Whateley's Diary

 

Cryptic Text 

Type: Support Faction: Neutral 

Cost: 3 

Game Text: 

Attachment. Tome. 

Attach to a character you control.

Action: Pay 4 and sacrifice Whateley's Diary to redistribute in any manner all of your success tokens onto stories among your side of the story cards in play. 

Set: DD 

Number: 77 

Illustrator: Tim Arney-O'Neil

 

(2.5) "Redistribute"

When a card effect directs you to redistribute tokens you cannot switch tokens between players. You cannot redistribute tokens from story cards to non-story card or from non-story cards to story cards unless the card effect specifically says otherwise.

 

 

 

This might be exploiting the old rules as written versus rules as intended loophole, but try Whateley's Diary while Tesla is in play, along with any cards you might have with the Fated keyword. Ouch.


Edited by Hybrid, 11 August 2013 - 06:27 AM.


#12 Pac_Man3D

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:46 AM

Super. Thank you for the clarification.




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