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Highlander and the Brothers Agenda


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#1 Old Ben

Old Ben

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 09:57 PM

dormouse:





So the Brothers Agenda states:Quote:
House Baratheon only. You may not run neutral characters or locations in your decks.

You may play with two 30 card decks. You may not have more than one copy of a card in a deck. (When an effect refers to a deck, the controller of the effect chooses between the two decks.)


The rules for Highlander state you may not have more than a single card with the same name in your deck.

So with Brothers is it possible to play two cards, one per deck and still meet the Highlander restriction?


Ktom:

You need a direct ruling from FFG or the event TO for that.

The "letter of the law" would be one per deck, but the "spirit of the format" would be one per player.



Mathlete:


dormouse wrote:
So with Brothers is it possible to play two cards, one per deck and still meet the Highlander restriction?


If I'm running a Highlander tourney (like the one will have at Kublacon ), I'd rule that you can only have one copy of any card TOTAL in the two decks combined. So, no duplicates on any card at all.


dormouse:


Okay, that also means no extra "Power of" plots and No Princes of the South Agendas. It was specifically for Kubla that I was asking.


Mathlete:


dormouse wrote:
Okay, that also means no extra "Power of" plots and No Princes of the South Agendas. It was specifically for Kubla that I was asking.


Exactly. I would rule that "one of any card name" per deck is a tourney rule, that supercede the text of the card. I would consider the Plot deck separate from the regular deck, so if there was a card (example - the Event "The Things I Do For Love") was in the regular deck, you could also run a copy of the same-named Plot in the Plot deck.



dormouse:

Well, the problem I see is two fold... Brothers specifically lets you create two separate draw decks, if you count the draw and plot decks as separate decks and that is the reasoning behind allowing two cards called "Things I do for Love" then you would need to allow the same for two draw decks. The second is the rules book also says card text trumps game rules (barring errata which is to be considered card text).

Now if you specifically state that the plot deck and draw decks are separate but that the Brothers at War Agenda allows a single draw deck to be split in half then you have something that makes sense. As to the card text>rules situation, claiming tournament rules>card text>game rules should handle that.

I'm personally not invested either way (other than my desire to try and build a deck that finds away to break this, which is the desire I have with all games and rules), I just want to make sure that we are consistent in our ruling and can provide a reason that intuitively makes sense. I did send Nate an email because I would always prefer to just say, "because FFG said so" than be putting forward an opinion that doesn't have any precedent.



mathelete:


dormouse wrote:
I'm personally not invested either way (other than my desire to try and build a deck that finds away to break this, which is the desire I have with all games and rules)


That's what I like about you Damon!

dormouse wrote:
I just want to make sure that we are consistent in our ruling and can provide a reason that intuitively makes sense. I did send Nate an email because I would always prefer to just say, "because FFG said so" than be putting forward an opinion that doesn't have any precedent.


Actually, it's up to the rules set up by the tourney organizer (me) in stating the requirements beforehand. I agree that there should be an official ruling for an official Highlander event, especially since FFG is running this event at GenCon, but I am changing the rules with regards to FFG's rules. After all, I am allowing every cards, even if it's been banned (such as King's Peace and The Things I Do for Love), so that's my current ruling for this event.



dormouse:

Beautiful then. I'm all over it.



Ktom:


dormouse wrote:
Well, the problem I see is two fold... Brothers specifically lets you create two separate draw decks, if you count the draw and plot decks as separate decks and that is the reasoning behind allowing two cards called "Things I do for Love" then you would need to allow the same for two draw decks. The second is the rules book also says card text trumps game rules (barring errata which is to be considered card text).

(...)

I did send Nate an email because I would always prefer to just say, "because FFG said so" than be putting forward an opinion that doesn't have any precedent.

Well then, luckily there is an FAQ entry on the subject:

(4.9) Card Title wrote:
A player may only include up to 3 copies of a card with the same title in his or her draw deck regardless of card type. This restriction does not include the usage of plot cards.

So according to the FAQ, the plot and draw decks are treated as completely separate in terms of counting copies by card title. So it is reasonable for mathlete (as TO of the event) to over-rule the card text on Brothers in favor of the format rules and say that the two draw decks of Brothers count as one when counting cards by title, but that the plot deck is not included.

BTW: The format rules over-ruling card specific rules is consistent with past Highlander rulings concerning things like the Twins Agenda and the "may have 2 copies in your plot deck" text of things like Power of Arms. So there is precedent as well as "FFG says" material to support mathlete's ruling.


dormouse:

You da man!


dormouse:


For the record Nate agrees and sights this precedent.


 






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