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Is there magic in Star Wars


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#1 AgentJ

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

     I have a player that always plays a magic user/caster in every rpg we play. So he asked me if there is such a class in Star Wars. I am not sure. I seen some type of magic being used in the cartoon, not sure if that was made up just for story reason. So basically does anyone know if there is a magic using class in Star Wars? If so do you know which book it would be in?

 

Thanks,

J



#2 Yepesnopes

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

The most close thing to magic is the Force, but indeed, in the cartoons there are these Witches (the ones from the planet where Ventress comes from) that seem to perform some magic, although it may be just another incarnation of the Force.

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#3 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:16 AM

AgentJ said:

I have a player that always plays a magic user/caster in every rpg we play. So he asked me if there is such a class in Star Wars. I am not sure. I seen some type of magic being used in the cartoon, not sure if that was made up just for story reason. So basically does anyone know if there is a magic using class in Star Wars? If so do you know which book it would be in?

 

Thanks,

J

Technically, the answer is "No," as everything that could be perceived as magic in the Star Wars universe is instead related to the Force.  So the closest thing to a "magic-user" you'll find in Star Wars are Force-users, with most of their abilities being akin to psychic powers rather than the flashy spells you'd find in D&D, Dragon Age, or most other fantasy RPGS.

Now some fo the recent EU (such as the Dathomir Nightsisters that Yepesnopes mentioned) have given non-Jedi users of the Force a more mystical bent to their abilities, but for the most part, any kind of tribal shaman or mystic is going to be a Force-user.  They might have a different name for it, but iit all comes down to the Force.


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#4 The Grand Falloon

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:39 AM

Me, I've always wanted to combine Warwick Davis' characters, Wicket and Willow, and make an Ewok sorcerer.  Really, he's just Force-Sensitive, but to an Ewok, that's powerful magic.  I would think some of the primitive traditions should have powers that leave even experienced Jedi saying, "What the hell was that?"

Using the barebones Force rules included, a character could be made with a pretty convincing "wizard" theme.  Sense Thoughts, Influence ("Do not take me for some conjuror of cheap tricks!"), Move Object to slam someone against a wall and hold him there.  Carry a staff while you do it and speak in the ancient tongue of your planet and you're good to go.  Your tradition would likely be aware of the Dark Side, though it would have a different name and may not be as taboo.  Depending on the maturity level of your game, perhaps the character takes hallucinogens to commune with "spirits" (or "demons," for a dark sorcerer).

As the character evolves, the GM and player should work together to build his Tradition.  Maybe he has access to different powers, or tweak up the Talent Tree.  It could be challenging, but worth it.


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#5 Nate

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

One suggestion that comes to mind is a Gand Findsman. This type of mystic bounty hunter can be created using just the rules in the core rulebook. Check out the Wookieepedia article for more information.

http://starwars.wiki...m/wiki/Findsman

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#6 capnhayes

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:59 PM

             In a campaign I ran a while back, I combined the Dragonstar setting with Star Wars by putting it in Grid D-20 which is in the Unknown Regions at the edge of the galaxy. The grid D-20 reference, was just a nod to d20! ;)

 

             Anyways, I basically put the setting in there including Outland worlds mighty Dragons, the whole nine yards, Just told everyone the "spells" or other Supernatural powers whatever they may be were in fact powered by the Force. Those characters originating from the Dragonstar empire perceived everything "Magic" as it was described in the original setting for Dragonstar and by extension D&D.

 

             But I made it clear no matter what, it was really the Force powering all their "magic" either Arcane, Psionic, or Divine! It was great fun. Basically it was a way to put D&D in Star Wars in such a way as to not ruin the continuity of either universe. As traditional "D&D" worlds existed as "Outland worlds" within the Dragonstar empire, which itself existed within the Star Wars galaxy is a region untouched by Star Wars Canon.

 

             Dragonstar was another really awesome setting from Fantasy Flight Games by the way.   :P



#7 Agatheron

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:39 PM

I have a player that always plays a magic user/caster in every rpg we play. So he asked me if there is such a class in Star Wars. I am not sure. I seen some type of magic being used in the cartoon, not sure if that was made up just for story reason. So basically does anyone know if there is a magic using class in Star Wars? If so do you know which book it would be in?


As others have indicated, the Force is the "magic" of the Star Wars universe. It's also not the exclusive property of the Jedi or the Sith for that matter. They simply represent two contrasting orders that train those who are force-sensitive. As others have mentioned, the witches of Dathomir are an example of a non-Jedi/Sith tradition where the force is used, with the Nightsisters being very powerful dark side users. Lots of examples exist, and in Edge of the Empire, it's best represented as the Force-Sensitive Exile.

If you really want to do a Mage-type character, I'd suggest a Colonist:Scholar who also accesses the Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree and powers. You can also make use of the force-sensitive Emergent from Age of Rebellion to show the character's growth. Ultimately, of course, Force and Destiny will provide the greatest options when it is released in 2015, but the beta is expected to be out in the fall of 2014.

Here's Wookipedia's full description of the Force:
http://starwars.wiki.../wiki/The_Force

Note that at the end there is a LARGE list of force-based organizations beyond the Jedi.

Oh yes, and remember that Obi-Wan was referred to as a Wizard. :)
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#8 JonahHex

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:43 PM

To be honest, the Force is like any other magic system in any other setting, capable of all the same wondrous feats. It's just a bit more reserved about it.



#9 Desslok

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

I don't see why there couldn't be magic in the universe - Star Wars is big enough and diverse enough for all manner of supernatural stuff. Hell, just use the old saying "Any sufficiently evolved science is indistinguishable from magic" and go the technomage route. All the trappings of magic wrapped up with a neat fiber optic bow. Boom, sorted.


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#10 JonahHex

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:49 PM

There already is a synthesis of "magic" (aka the Force) and technology in Star Wars; see the Rakatan Infinite Empire and its hyperdrives, Force sabers, the Star Forge, etc, as well as the Celestials with their Centerpoint Station and -- theoretically -- their Tho Yor. As for other brands of "magic", check out Sith sorcery, the Sorcerers of Tund, the Sorcerers of Rhand, the Witches of Dathomir (including the Nightsisters and Nightbrothers), the Shapers of Kro Var, the Embers of Vahl, and many others. There are even beings known as Force wielders who transcend material form; deities, essentially.

All of this comes back to being the Force, however, so any Force-user could potentially learn these abilities, although this is an extremely rare occurrence. My advice is to treat magic with care and caution so that it feels special and unique to whatever part of the galaxy it originates from.


Edited by JonahHex, 25 December 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:06 PM

This version of Star Wars doesn't really have casters per se (yet, anyway). Force classes in Saga were more like Vancian casters with how Force Powers worked (with Force Secrets being basically metamagic feats), and things like Sith Alchemy and Sith Sorcery are more "magical" seeming than direct Force application.

 

That said, different authors prefer different takes. Some prefer magical, mystical stuff centered on weird Force powers and applications, while others focus on more of the hard science that non-Forceful use constantly. FFG Force stuff, so far, focuses more on augmenting the body with Force and performing the (seemingly) sneaky, low-grade use of powers that light side-users deploy in the movies, versus the Evocation Magic style of, say, The Force Unleashed video games.


Edited by Kshatriya, 25 December 2013 - 05:08 PM.


#12 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:24 PM

I don't see why there couldn't be magic in the universe


Okay... But do you see why there Shouldn't be? I like the fact that Star Wars is broad and there is room for a lot of things. This however doesn't mean that everything should be in Star Wars... I don't want Star Wars to he generic, i want Star Wars to be Star Wars.
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#13 Maelora

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 04:26 AM

I'm really anxious to break the link that Force=Jedi/Sith anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of Force traditions and more primitive/superstitious interpretations of 'the spiritual energy that surrounds and binds all living things'.  We saw what the Ewoks thought of Luke's telekinesis, after all.

 

We have a PC in Age of Rebellion who grew up in a primitive environment among a people with strong shamanic traditions. The Jedi had watched over them because they produced many Force-sensitives. She was enrolled into Project Emergent and 'civilised', but her people would still consider her a witch or shaman.

 

What we don't have yet, at least until F&D comes out, is a 'pure caster' force class.

 

I think it's important to remember that Star Wars handles the Force much more like 'magic' than 'psionics' - all that mystical, spiritual stuff is very deliberate.  Even moreso if you ignore the later retcon silliness of 'midichlorians'.  


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#14 Dyslexic Dragon

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 07:29 AM

I really hope that F&D does not mention 'midichlorians' My GM has ingnored it as his argument was if the amount of midichlorians in you effects how powerful a force user is, this Sith would have worked out a way of injecting more into themselves.

 

My next character will be a Jawa shaman based off the SW:TOR quest on Tatoonie :D  With sense, move and forseen.


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#15 That Blasted Samophlange

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 08:17 AM

On the issue of midichlorians, I accept is as true. From a certain point ov view.. they don't make a force user powerful in the force, however the midichlorians are a type of benign parasitic organism that force users have, and the quantity of which can be measured. This means you can't inject midichlorians to be stronger. The only instance of the force being artificially given to an individual is in Jedi Outcast, and the valley of the Jedi.

As for the issue of magic, primitive/less scientifically aware cultures would see these powers as something mystical or magic. Some cultures would develop rituals/ prayers or what not as a way invoke these powers.

I really am hoping force and destiny gives us generic classes and sects or orders are represented by the obligation/duty mechanic of commitment (of which a Jedi must have the deepest of). Basically a rank of how, well committed you are, to a certain tradition. Be it the Jedi, Sith, Witch of Dathomir, Baron Do Sage or Findsman.

Keeping the order from being a career leaved lots of room for any culture/sect/etc that exists already or a GM could come up with.
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#16 Maelora

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:14 AM

I am absolutely 100% certain of this: 'Force & Destiny' _won't_ stress 'midichlorians'. No way, no how. FFG won't want to stir up this most controversial element in that way.

 

All we will get is some sidebar saying: 'Some people believe that the Force can be measured by tiny organisms in the blood called 'midichlorians'.  If you want a more 'hard sci-fi' feel to your game, you can use this explanation. If you want to keep a more 'science fantasy' feel to the game, it's fine to simply describe the Force as 'the spiritual energy that surrounds and binds all living things'.   

 

Bear in mind many things Lucas did were merely an 'ass pull'. That is, for a plot point, he pulled some random stuff out of his ass to illustrate a point, and then never mentioned it again. These were never intended to really be 'canon' or part of 'world building'.  Midichlorians are never mentioned again in the films after they are used to describe why the wretched brat is such an uber Mary Sue.  Hutts and Toydarians are given blanket Force-immunity because the films would be drastically shortened if Luke or Qui-Gon were to use a Charm power on the NPCs at that point. So like any bad GM, Lucas just invents a new species that is Force-immune.

 

Interesting that EtU describes this as fluff for Toydarians, but isn't part of the racial powers as it is for Droids.  And equally telling that Hutts lost it between the Beta book and the real thing.  I think all it means now is that these species have a higher willpower.   

 

So I'm _damned_ if I'm going to let Lucas' random brain-farts become an important aspect of my games.

 

So for us, 'midichlorians' exist, but don't measure anything that scientists can be certain of, an inexact science that is mostly dismissed as quackery. Hutts and Toydarians have no Force immunity beyond a higher Willpower score.


Edited by Maelora, 26 December 2013 - 09:21 AM.

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#17 JonahHex

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:55 AM

I really hope that F&D does not mention 'midichlorians' My GM has ingnored it as his argument was if the amount of midichlorians in you effects how powerful a force user is, this Sith would have worked out a way of injecting more into themselves.

 

My next character will be a Jawa shaman based off the SW:TOR quest on Tatoonie :D  With sense, move and forseen.

They did, actually. Check out the Darth Plageuis novel. It turns out "injecting" midichlorians isn't that easy. It also turns out that Darth Plageuis figured out how to manipulate midichlorians with the Force to create life... and this is how Schmi Skywalker had a "virigin" birth with Anakin. In other words, there are six whole movies about the Sith enacting that very plan.

I honestly don't get why people are so upset about midichlorians. They don't negate the spiritual aspect of the Force any more than Harry Potter's wand makes his spells seem less magical; they are simply the physical medium between the magician and his magic. No big deal. Besides, the entire original trilogy was literally predicated on the notion that the Force is hereditary, and you also might have noticed that master-level characters like Yoda, Mace Windu, and Emperor Palpatine all honed their powers well beyond what Anakin ever achieved, and this despite his massive midichlorian count. Much as I've always hated the show, they did a similar thing on Dragon Ball Z with "power levels"; in truth, those numbers were just a distraction. Practice, skill, and cleverness are always going to be more important. Hence why you can take or leave midichlorians and it'll have no effect on canon... although keep in mind that midichlorians are canon. Blood tests can determine the potential for Force sensitivity, even if you avoid using that dirty word (believe me, I totally understand why some people think the word is dirty, I just think it's an overreaction).

All that being said, the explanation for midichlorians didn't belong in a movie. It added nothing to the story and didn't have to be anything more than; "The results of this blood test indicate that you are destined to be extraordinarily powerful in the Force, Anakin." The rest of the explanation should have been left for the novelization or some other form of extended media. The idea isn't completely without merit, as the Darth Plageuis novel proves, but it belongs in a movie about as much as an explanation about the difference between the Sith species and the Sith Order; the best you can hope to achieve is to confuse people and steal some mysticism from more casual audiences.


Edited by JonahHex, 26 December 2013 - 10:12 AM.

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#18 Desslok

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:07 AM

So for us, 'midichlorians' exist, but don't measure anything that scientists can be certain of, an inexact science that is mostly dismissed as quackery. Hutts and Toydarians have no Force immunity beyond a higher Willpower score.

 

Of course the First Rule of Canon applies - your table, your rules and Lucas be damned - but I've actually made peace with the Midichlorians. I came around to being okay with them once I realize that the Midichlorians were not what caused the Force, but a byproduct of the Force. Kind of like having dark skin pigment does not mean you live in Africa. Living in Africa gives you dark skin pigment.

 

Same thing - Midichlorians don't necessarily "cause" the force in people, rather that perhaps they are tiny organisms that gather near the force. Therefore, you could measure them to get a general idea of how much Force is generated in a person at that time, but it isn't as though people have the ability to control tiny beings to lift X-Wings and stuff.

 

Also, just because the Jedi said it was so does not necessary make them right. Midichlorian readings could easily be the high-tech equivalent of reading tea leaves.


Edited by Desslok, 26 December 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#19 Kshatriya

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:12 AM

I hope F&D doesn't do "pure casters." Frankly I don't know how that could be balanced against "mundane" classes, and the presentation of the Force in current EotE/AoR doesn't seem to fit well with the evocation-style moves from, say, TFU.



#20 JonahHex

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:23 AM

 

So for us, 'midichlorians' exist, but don't measure anything that scientists can be certain of, an inexact science that is mostly dismissed as quackery. Hutts and Toydarians have no Force immunity beyond a higher Willpower score.

 

Of course the First Rule of Canon applies - your table, your rules and Lucas be damned - but I've actually made peace with the Midichlorians. I came around to being okay with them once I realize that the Midichlorians were not what caused the Force, but a byproduct of the Force. Kind of like having dark skin pigment does not mean you live in Africa. Living in Africa gives you dark skin pigment.

 

Same thing - Midichlorians don't necessarily "cause" the force in people, rather that perhaps they are tiny organisms that gather near the force. Therefore, you could measure them to get a general idea of how much Force is generated in a person at that time, but it isn't as though people have the ability to control tiny beings to lift X-Wings and stuff.

 

Also, just because the Jedi said it was so does not necessary make them right. Midichlorian readings could easily be the high-tech equivalent of reading tea leaves.

 

Being in Africa doesn't make you black, being in Europe drains your melanin and makes you white (over the course of thousands of years, anyway). But I see what you mean, and you're absolutely right; midichlorians are merely a guideline, a curiosity, even. In-universe characters don't even fully understand them; they've merely noticed that high Force sensitive people tend to have this strange bacteria in their blood.

Another point: characters like the Skywalkers (especially when they're younger) and others aren't as "wise" as many non-Force sensitive characters around them, yet they can still use the Force. Midichlorians explain why.






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