Jump to content



Photo

Flowchart for Casting


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:06 PM

Has anyone created a flowchart for casting?  I'm thinking it would be a great handout for a demo I am hoping to run.



#2 gmanjkd

gmanjkd

    Member

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:28 PM

Sorry no, but that does sound handy for new players.  Are u thinking something simple I.e.  evaluate power, channel power, reevaluate power, spend power, Make spell craft check +1 challenge die, apply spell results, adjust power toward equilibrium?  Or do you plan to go into every possible outcome spread out between blessings and spells?  Miscast, insanity, to much power/not enough etc?



#3 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:56 AM

I think initially I would start simple but adding in additional steps makes sense.  Spellcasting is not "user-friendly" in this game.



#4 dvang

dvang

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

No offense intended, but spellcasting seems pretty simple to me.

 

* Wizard needs X amount of power to attempt to cast a spell.

* If they don't have that much power, they have to Channel Power first in order to have enough power to attempt to meet the power requirement.  Wizard makes a Channel Power check.

* Once the Wizard has the minimum amount of power for the spell, make a spellcasting check to successfully cast the spell. 

* When successfully cast, remove an amount of power from the Wizard equal to the cost of the spell, and place an appropriate number of recharge tokens on the spell action card.

 

Pretty straight-forward, it seems to me. There are a few additional rules that are a little trickier, those being overchanneling, equilibrium, and miscasting … but those aren't significantly more difficult to deal with.

Don't get me wrong. This isn't to say that a flowchart is a bad idea. I think it would be useful. I just don't understand what is so difficult about spellcasting. IMO, the way priests cast Blessings is worse. That isn't because the process is more difficult, it is just less intuitive, IMO.



#5 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

I usually just hand the book to the player and say, "If you want to play a spellcaster, you figure it out :)"   Any player who is vested into a game is more likely to stick with it as well.

 

I quick reference sheet would probably be a good thing though.  Ideally a 4x5 small sheet size would be good with an area for placing power tokens.

 

jh



#6 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:02 PM

So when I demo it's going to be that simple huh? Really?  How many steps was that you layed out? It's simple to anyone who has played the game but for someone with zero familiarity? Compared to Pathfinder or d&d it's a maze of steps.  Hence my request for a step by step flowchart to hand out.  



#7 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

I'm with you on this but I just dong think there's anything out there for this.  Even if you make one, you still need the player to read up  on the additional details.  The text below from Uhead may be useful for coming up with ideas.

 

 

from Uhead"Arcane Ma gic
Spellcasting characters generate power by channelling the
Winds of Magic, then spend that power to cast spells.
Unless indicated otherwise, the default difficulty for casting a
spell is Simple (0 ) but may be modified by the GM.
Gaining Power (Channelling)
When a spellcaster is holding power equal to his Willpower,
he is at equilibrium. When his power is below his Willpower,
it slowly recharges; when higher, it slowly dissipates. During
story mode, or entering encounter mode, he is at equilibrium.
To generate power, the spellcaster selects the Channel Power
action, makes a Channelling check based on his Willpower,
and takes tracking tokens equal to the power generated.
A spellcaster holding an item attuned to his Wind of Magic
adds bonus to his check equal to its Attuned rating.
Excess Power
During his End of Turn phase and his Rally step, a spellcaster
who is above his equilibrium must perform a manoeuvre or
lose 1 power. If he is below his equilibrium he gains 1 power.
If he is storing more than twice his Willpower in power, he
must spend a manoeuvre and suffer 1 stress, or his power
returns to equilibrium and he immediately suffers 1 fatigue
per point vented, and rolls 1 per point vented. For every
he suffers 1 wound, and for every he suffers 1 stress.
Spellcasting
To cast a spell, a spellcaster must fulfill the requirements of
the appropriate action card, then (usually) make a Spellcraft
check based on his Intelligence. The power is consumed first,
whether or not the spell is successfully cast.
Losing Power
If a spellcaster is forced to lose power, it is immediately
removed from his current supply. If he does not have enough,
he is reduced to 0 power and suffers 1 stress.
If a spellcaster is forced to lose power and he is already at
zero power, make a Discipline check, with equal to the
amount of power he is unable to lose. On a success, he suffers
1 stress. On a fail, he suffers 1 stress and a temporary insanity
with the Chaos or Trauma trait, placing tokens on the card
equal to the difficulty of the check.
Quickcasting
Spellcasters may try to channel power and cast a spell on the
same turn. Add an extra to the Spellcraft check.
Reckless Casting
When a spellcaster in a reckless stance generates a on a
Spellcraft check, increase the Party Tension meter by one.
Miscasts
When a spellcaster generates one or more on a Spellcraft
check, not only are any appropriate card effects triggered,
but he must draw a Miscast card and find the line matching
the number of rolled. If there are any symbols left over,
he continues to draw cards until they are all used. Used cards
are returned to the deck and the deck shuffled.
Magic Sight
Detecting the presence or absence of magic in the immediate
vicinity or seeing major magical effects in his line of sight is
automatically successfully for a character desiring to do so.
More information requires a skill check:
Easy (1 ) Determining the colour of a magical aura, locating
the only aura in a room.
Average (2 ) Determining the colour of an aura from
blended colours, distinguishing between multiple auras close
together, determining the strength of a magical effect or
aura, identifying a spell being cast that you already know.
Difficult (3 ) Determining the purpose or nature of an
enchantment or magic item, locating a particular aura in an
area crowded with magic, identifying a spell being cast you
don’t know, gauging how much power another spellcaster is
currently maintaining.
Daunting (4 ) Detecting the presence of magic
through a physical obstruction, tracing a spell or effect back
to its source after it’s been cast, detecting the remnants of an
aura no longer present.
Obstructions that block line of sight block magical sight,
though magical sight is more effective in darkness. The
Magical Sight skill can have specialisations.
Cantrips
The Cantrip action card covers a myriad useful, minor spells.
Trivial (no roll required): Lighting a candle within arms
reach, making a coin-sized object vanish into a hand,
changing your hair or eye color, conjuring a light, sweetsmelling
breeze, pouring a glass of wine without touching,
opening a book to a desired page.
Easy (1 ) Light every candle in a room at once, making a
book-sized object vanish, conjure a small wind, shattering
a bottle, causing someone to open a book to desired page,
predicting the outcome of a coin of a coin flip or other
random event.
Average (2 ) Lighting and maintaining a fire, pulling a
rabbit from a hat, conjuring enough wind to move a small
boat, pulling a small object into your hand across a room,
predicting the weather.
DIVINE Ma gic
Divine characters invoke a blessing from their god, then
pray to generate favour necessary to fulfill the blessing.
Unless indicated otherwise, the default difficulty for invoking
a blessing is Simple (0 ) but may be modified by the GM.
Invocation
To invoke a blessing, a priest must fulfill the requirements
of the appropriate action card, then (usually) make an
Invocation check based on his Fellowship.
A blessing resolves as soon as it has accumulated the required
amount of favour. If a blessing is successful and the priest
does not have enough favour, all of his favour is drawn out
and placed on the card. On his next turn during his Beginning
of Turn phase, a previously invoked blessing that still requires
favour will automatically draw any new favour generated
until it has satisfied the blessing’s requirement and the effect
goes off, or there is no more favour to draw.
If a priest aborts a blessing currently holding favour, all
favour is lost. If this amount is equal to or less than his
Willpower, he suffers 1 stress. If greater, he suffers 1 stress
and 1 fatigue.
Gaining Favour (Currying Favour)
When a priest is holding favour equal to his Willpower, he is
at equilibrium. When his favour is below his Willpower, it
slowly recharges; when higher, it slowly dissipates. During
story mode, or entering encounter mode, he is at equilibrium.
To generate favour, the priest selects the Curry Favour
action, makes a Piety check based on his Willpower, and
takes tracking tokens equal to the favour generated.
Excess Favour
During his End of Turn phase and his Rally step, a priest who
is above his equilibrium must perform a manoeuvre or lose 1
favour. If he is below his equilibrium he gains 1 favour.
If he is storing more than twice his Willpower in favour, he
must spend a manoeuvre and suffer 1 stress, or his favour
returns to equilibrium and he immediately suffers 1 fatigue
per point vented and rolls 1 per point vented. For every
he suffers 1 wound, and for every he suffers 1 stress.
Losing Favour
If a priest is forced to lose favour, it is immediately removed
from his current supply. If he does not have enough, he is
reduced to 0 power and suffers 1 stress.
If a priest is forced to lose favour and he is already at zero
favour, make a Discipline check, with equal to the amount
of favour he is unable to lose. On a success, he suffers 1
stress. On a fail, he suffers 1 stress and a temporary insanity
with the Enigma or Trauma trait, placing tokens on the card
equal to the difficulty of the check.
In Great Need
Priests may try to invoke a blessing and curry favour on the
same turn. Add an extra to the Curry Favour check."


#8 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:11 AM

Not a flowchart but a 1 page handout.

 

 

Arcane Spellcasting Steps

1)      As your Action you have chosen to cast a Spell.

2)      Do you have enough Power as required by the spell to cast it?

3)      If not, you must perform a successful Channel Power Maneuver.

4)      If you do have enough Power you will now make a Spellcraft Check to determine the outcome.

5)      The Power used by the spell is consumed.

Quickcasting

1)      You may attempt to Channel Power and cast on the same turn but you must add an extra Challenge die to your Spellcraft Check.

Channel Power Manuever

1)     Roll 1 Challenge die and a number of WillPower Characteristic Dice but be sure to convert a number of these Characteristic Dice into either  Conservative Dice or Reckless Dice based upon how many spaces deep into a stance you are. This is not optional. IF you are Trained in this Skill, add 1  Expertise die to your roll as well.

2)     Determine how much Power you now have and take that many tokens.

Spellcraft Maneuver

1)      As per the Spell indicates, roll a number of n Misfortune dice, 1  Challenge die and a number of Characteristic Dice based on your Intelligence but be sure to convert a number of these Characteristic Dice into either Conservative Dice or Reckless Dice based upon how many spaces deep into a stance you are. This is not optional. If you are Trained in this Skill, add 1 Expertise die to your roll as well. Additionally if the Spell you are casting is fits the criteria of a Specialization you have, you may Add 1 Fortune die to your roll if Specialization fits the spell's criteria.

2)      Determine the outcome of the spell.

Miscasting

When 1 or more Chaos Stars are generated on a Spellcraft Check those effects are resolved first but if there are any unassigned Chaos Stars in the dice pool remaining, you must draw a Miscast card.

Dangers

When forced to lose Power through an effect of a  Bane or a  Chaos Star, that Power is immediately lost. If you do not have enough Power to satisfy the loss, you are reduced to zero Power and immediately suffer 1 Stress.  If you are already at zero Power you must immediately attempt a Discipline check, with a number of  Challenge dice equal to the amount of Power you are unable to lose. If the Discipline check succeeds, you suffer 1 Stress. If it fails, you suffer 1 Stress and immediately gain a temporary Insanity with the Chaos or Trauma trait. You then place a number of tracking tokens on the Insanity card equal to the difficulty of the check.

Discipline Check

Roll a number of Challenge dice as required by the check and a number of Characteristic Dice equal to your Willpower. If trained in Discipline, add 1  Expertise dice for each level of training. If Specialized in Discipline you may also add additional Fortune dice to the check. The Discipline check succeeds if you have more Successes than Failures.



#9 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

Good summary.  The summary and letting your player have access to the magic book helps.

 

jh



#10 Ceodryn

Ceodryn

    Member

  • Members
  • 255 posts

Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

Check the following link, it has the summary and charts you need:

http://www.gitzmansg...urt Dimon 6.pdf



#11 dvang

dvang

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:15 AM

Wolvercote said:

So when I demo it's going to be that simple huh? Really?  How many steps was that you layed out? It's simple to anyone who has played the game but for someone with zero familiarity? Compared to Pathfinder or d&d it's a maze of steps.  Hence my request for a step by step flowchart to hand out.  

I have demo'd to players who have never played WFRP before.  Yes, it actually is that simple. Of course, I was walking them through it.  I never had them attempt it alone until they were familiar enough with it.

Again, if you are demo'ing it, then just be prepared to step through it with them … which you are probably doing to both ranged and melee actions too.

"You want to cast spell X? "

"Ok, how much power does the card say it costs?"

"Alright, your standing power, called equilibrium, is equal to your willpower … so that is 3(or 4 or 5)"

"Ok you have enough to power the spell, so you will be making a check as listed on the card…" OR "Ok, you don't have enough power to cast the spell this turn. Your option is to instead take an action to only gather power this turn, and cast the spell next turn … or else you can do what is called 'quickcasting', which means you try to gather power and cast in the same turn, but it will make actually casting the spell slightly more difficult."

and so on…

Do this a couple times, and people will pick it up fairly quickly from what I've seen.

 

 



#12 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:42 PM

Part of the issue is that while I'm demoing the game I have also never played it myself. Hence my desire for a user-friendly guide. I've read through the rulebooks ad nauseaum but that means nothing until you've actually run the game. Which I haven't.



#13 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

Here is a good thread on how to teach and learn WFRP3:  http://rpggeek.com/t...-to-teach-wfrp3

I recommend trying out this website dice roller to make sure you get the hang of a couple of dice rolls :  http://laakmann.free.fr/wfrp/

 

Essentially, this RPG is like all other RPGs in that you primarily need to tell your players how to make a basic skill check and what the opposing dice are. Lift a log?  Athletics with a difficulty of how tough you think it should be (one purple for example).

 

Its crucial for the GM to know the following things:

1.  How to translate the dice

2.  How to tell players difficulties against skill checks (just go with 1 purple for most checks until you get the hang of things).  Combat is a bit more.

3.  How to track initiative and keep the action moving

4.  How combat works

5.  How wounds work

6.  How healing works

7.  How stress and fatigue ebb and flow

8.  How an ordinary skill check (pass/fail), Perform Stunt, Melee Strike, and Ranged Attack SHOULD cover everything you need to do.  These are basic actions.  There is no "card" for an ordinary skill check obviously.  Perform stunt is used for anything beyond a basic pass/fail skill check.  For example: convince a guard that the blood on your clothes, hands and face is from shaving and not from the other guard standing dead at your feet :)

 

Here are some tips and confusion reducers (random):

1.  The recharge for exhaustable talents is (4). Remember to remove one token at the end of the round you use it.

2.  Recharge happens at the END of the round you just used a card.  For example if a card has a recharge of (2), it should only have (1) token on it at the end of the same round you used it.  PLAYERS WILL FORGET to remove one recharge from EACH of their recharging actions so remind them at the end of their turn to do so.

3.   I HIGHLY recommend that you use fortune point cards until your players get the hang of the game.  It has the rules on them.  As the GM, I recommend giving them out for heroic actions.

4.  Our group doesn't use talent socketing or party sheets.  For a beginning group, they're just not necessary IMHO.

5.  Let all stress and fatigue reset to ZERO after each encounter unless you as the GM feel that it wouldn't heal (for example if the group is on the run and doesn't get a chance to rest after a bad encounter).

6.  My house rulebook has some suggestions on random effects of unresolved Chaos Stars and Comets on the dice. (see my sig).  There is also a conditions summary in there in case you need one.

7.  Remember:  characters can benefit from each type of healing ONLY ONCE PER DAY.  That means if you fight 4 combats, you can only benefit from a First Aid check once in that day.  Medicine check once that day.  Benefit means that the check must be successful, hence you can keep trying until you succeed.  The same goes for healing draughts.  If you roll zero successes and didn't benefit, you can still drink another one.   Another point goes for healing magic:  each SPELL can only work on a player character once per day.     FATUGUE AND STRESS however can benefit as many times as you want in a day (up to the GM), hence why they are usually resolved between encounters.

8.  RALLY STEPS occur when you, the GM, decide you want them to occur.  I usually shoot for 4-5 rounds if the combat is really long (such as in the DEMO: Day late shilling short).

9.  Print out and read the errata and Living Index if you didn't get a copy in your boxed set.  They are VERY handy :)

10.  Sort your stuff with card album sheets.  That goes for the PLAYERS as well.  Give them an album sheet to put their action cards into.  All the same color on one side.

11.  It's not worth bothering sorting your tokens.  Whether you need one for fatigue, stress, or an advanced action card recharge, just stick something on there.  Sorting just wastes time.

12.  MONSTERS that take a critical wound:  We usually just give them extra wounds equal to the severity if the effect would otherwise be lame. 

13.  Players that are used to playing on a grid with 5' inch markers will not instantly understand "engaged" or "close" and that there is no flanking (it is just assumed that you are attempting to flank and move around so there aren't little nit-picky rules for that kind of stuff).

14.  Give out bonus white die liberally for good ideas and penalty black dice for inopportune things liberally as well.  

15.  Remind players to have a back-up character and that characters die very easily in this game.  Life can be nasty, brutish and short!

 

If you have any other questions you can PM me or post here.    We love to help out newbies on these boards (even if we do rib a little).

 

jh



#14 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:37 PM

Awesome cheat sheet there.  I absolutley will refer to that in my prep work. Thanks!

 

The range/movement thing is weighing on my mind too.  I was trying to make some kind of grid-system but got frustrated and will simply opt for putting a number of tokens in between pcs and npcs.

I'm starting to this I should just go for theatre of the mind combat when it comes to placement.



#15 dvang

dvang

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:27 AM

Awesome write-up Emirikol.  I totally agree with everything there!



#16 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

You're supposed to disagree so we can have a heated debate.  I'm bored and I'm avoiding paperwork ;)

 

jh



#17 Wolvercote

Wolvercote

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:36 AM

Working on a Divine Prayer version for this.  I'm finding it quite convoluted.

 



#18 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts

Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

It does seem more complicated than it needs to be, but such as it is with spell point systems.  Everybody flips out over Vancian magic systems, so this is what we get instead.

 

The only difference between wizard and priest is that the wizard can't even /start/ his spell until he has enough magic.  The priest can start it, but it doesn't go /off/ until he has enough magic.

 

jh






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS