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Anyone else play as Andromeda and think she is GREAT??!!


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#1 Darkjawa

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

Like the title says, what do you all think of the latest Criminal ID? All I did was swap her out for Gabe and didn't change much in my deck, except add in in Katie Jones. She is pretty powerful. Escpecially if you can make sure you get a few money making cards in your opening hand. After that paying for Toolbox isn't so daunting.



#2 resCube

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:16 AM

you should check out this video for thoughts on Andromeda

 

 



#3 Brigaldio

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:15 PM

I'm still plannign out my Andromeda deck before I leap in.  It seems to me that there are two ways to build her.  You can go all-in on the early strategy, using your large opening hand to maximize options for immediate use (things like inside job opening up notoriety or kraken, for example), or you can use your initial hand to jump-start your economy with multiple Easy Mark/ Sure Gamble into Liberated Account, or Personal Workshop into three installs.

Andromeda seems like she needs to use her influence to pick the directions she wants to go.  She can build up her rig fast and shoot for a long game, or take anarch cards to lock the corp out early.


Now blogging Netrunner, Warmachine, Malifaux, Dust: Warfare, and anything else that catches my interest at Dice Minus Seven.


#4 AussieKSU

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:51 PM

No, I personally think she is terrible. +4 cards in your opening hand, without taking into account the utility of a "big first turn", is simply not enough return. Even if you are going to try an convince me of a big first turn, what do you have in mind? If you are trying to convince me that seeing 9 cards gives you many more options, then run quality time.



#5 AussieKSU

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:52 PM

No, I personally think she is terrible. +4 cards in your opening hand, without taking into account the utility of a "big first turn", is simply not enough return. Even if you are going to try an convince me of a big first turn, what do you have in mind? If you are trying to convince me that seeing 9 cards gives you many more options, then run quality time.



#6 Magnus Arcanis

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 04:47 AM

AussieKSU said:

No, I personally think she is terrible. +4 cards in your opening hand, without taking into account the utility of a "big first turn", is simply not enough return. Even if you are going to try an convince me of a big first turn, what do you have in mind? If you are trying to convince me that seeing 9 cards gives you many more options, then run quality time.

Actually, I think thats just it. She, currently, is able to "set up" quicker and more consistantly than any other runner. That is her sole advantage. If you're planning for the long game and have no desire to put early pressure on the Corp, her bonus deminishes and thus probably not the right runner for you. However, if your goal is to put the pressure on, then she is one of the top candidates.



#7 Edwin20er

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:34 AM

I actually run 3x Quality Time in my Andy, and I make it a point of setting up quick, with Doppelgangers she can apply pressure to multiple points as well as get maximum benefit out of cards like Bank job and the like.  She also has a static link, so Dyson chips get her to cloud status.  Makes her pretty solid if you want to play a long term criminal game.



#8 AussieKSU

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

Edwin20er said:

 as well as get maximum benefit out of cards like Bank job and the like. 

 

I don't understand what you mean? Does she get more than 8 credits from bank job? 

 

 

I guess +4 cards are nice, because it increases the chance that one of them will read "Magnum Opus"…



#9 Edwin20er

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

No, but she can run bank job as either a first run or a free run.  For example, let's say that the corp player drops down an unprotected economy card and an ice covering each R&D and HQ.  I've consistently been able to play a Modded Doppelganger, Bank Job, run the econ with 3, take the cash from the job, and then rerun the server on the free run, break the econ card and net anywhere from 3 to 5 creds and hit the economy, then have a spare click to play… well anything.  I've also run face-first into a snare there and had the spare click to remove the tag.  

Bank job is a card that becomes better as the cards that are around it are able to more effectively support it. 

She doesn't make Bank Job any better, but the cards she can generate makes those openings much more consistently attainable.



#10 Syd

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

I think it's an important point when factoring in Andromeda's value to consider the second runner turn. Andromeda allows you to spend all your clicks for two turns for proactive effects and runs rather than drawing cards. I cant speak for every player, but generally a click or two is spent in the first couple turns to draw cards. With some draw built in to extend Andromeda's card advantage, I have played games where I never used the standard Click to Draw action once, which amounted to a lot more effective click use throughout the course of the game. 



#11 Rithe

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:19 AM

Ive had a few gmaes with her and she is ok but she's more down to play style then anything. Her passive is good but that 2 creds for first HQ run is less play style and a more rounded ability that fits ant deck and play style. But personly... she isn't shaper so she isn't my kinda gal

#12 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:06 AM

712955d1337432645-i-hate-omega-part-two-


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#13 Dydra

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

I prefer Gabe 10 out of 10 times than Andromeda .... Gabe is actually more aggressive, because : 

1) if you don't play 4 cards out of your hand , you WILL discard ( which spits in the face of her ONLY ability )
2) the fact that you MUST play 4 cards, means you can't do turn 1 "face check" runs into walls to deny the corp early income
3) Yes you have a BIG blow up at the start ( of Income) maybe 1-2 Sure Gambles or/and Easy marks ... and what do u do after that money is over ( usually spent on installing rig ?) you have to rely again on Magnum Opus or Katie Jones, both which need time to kick in ( especially that 5 cost on the MO)
4) The 2 ( 3 if Desperado) "recurring " credits each turn from Sneak Door Beta or simply run on HQ is a huge econ which allows you to STAY AGGRESSIVE, where as Andromeda will need time/clicks to gear up for another run with MO or KJ , which gives 1-2 free turns on the Corp's side 
5) It switches out the focus from HQ and most Andromeda's would focus R&D siege + Remotes ... which makes Emergency Shutdown, so less efficient to play ... You would 4-5 ( maybe more ) to get through to HQ , just so u can do an Emergency shutdown? I prefer to get +2 on top of that 


If you wanna' play a Shaper... go play Shaper 

Criminal is AGGRO and CONTROL, an identity which will stop me to play Account Siphon on turn 1 DOESN'T FIT FOR CRIMINALS !

Oh yes and speaking of AS , considering that you will clean up the tags ... is is better to AS for 10 or for 12 lol ...



#14 nungunz

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:42 PM

Gabe has more raw power if things go well.  If you're easily hitting HQ,and/or you're hitting early agendas he's better.

 

Andromeda is more consistent and resilient.  Her chance of a weak start is near minimal.  It's harder for the corp to shut her down because she starts stronger.  Gabe can be shut down by a strong corp hand, but Andromeda can brute force it better early on with her (usual) amazing start.

 

Link is more a meta thing and while nice, isn't huge.

 

If you think Andromeda is blank after turn 1, that's a bit of a fallacy, but the large opening hand gives her a huge board advantage and that matters throughout the game.

 


1) if you don't play 4 cards out of your hand , you WILL discard ( which spits in the face of her ONLY ability )

 

I don't see your point here.  Sure you might have to discard, but does that spit in the face of her "ONLY" ability?  Multiples of Desperado or Kati Jones etc is fantastic because you can pitch cards and you drew into great cards and thinned washes out of the deck.

 

Nothing wrong with discarding a card or two if there's no reason to keep them.

 

2) the fact that you MUST play 4 cards, means you can't do turn 1 "face check" runs into walls to deny the corp early income

 

Include decks that instigate runs.  Yesterday I got a game in with Desperado, Account Siphon (big ice deck that couldn't afford to rez), Dirty Laundry, Dirty Laundry on turn one.  I ended up with 19 credits and 3 agenda points.  Granted Gabe can do that two, but it's harder to get an awesome hand like that AND then have 5 cards left over that include breakers and other mean cards.

 

3) Yes you have a BIG blow up at the start ( of Income) maybe 1-2 Sure Gambles or/and Easy marks ... and what do u do after that money is over ( usually spent on installing rig ?) you have to rely again on Magnum Opus or Katie Jones, both which need time to kick in ( especially that 5 cost on the MO)

 

Sure Gamble, Dirty Laundry, Desperado, Kati Jones, Daily Casts, Account Siphon.....I've never felt that I've been strapped for cash as Andromeda.  Not once.  For Gabe every now and then feel a bit low if HQ is iced up well and I can't find a beta test in the deck.

 

4) The 2 ( 3 if Desperado) "recurring " credits each turn from Sneak Door Beta or simply run on HQ is a huge econ which allows you to STAY AGGRESSIVE, where as Andromeda will need time/clicks to gear up for another run with MO or KJ , which gives 1-2 free turns on the Corp's side 

 

 

Agreed, but Andy has such a strong start that the corp is usually on the back-foot and you can almost account siphon at will if you don't play stupid.

 

5) It switches out the focus from HQ and most Andromeda's would focus R&D siege + Remotes ... which makes Emergency Shutdown, so less efficient to play ... You would 4-5 ( maybe more ) to get through to HQ , just so u can do an Emergency shutdown? I prefer to get +2 on top of that 

 

HQ still is vulnerable to Account Siphon and Datasucker.  Plus if they assume you're just hitting R&D and remotes, then HQ is usually weaker and you can pull off an easy HQ run (plus Desperado/Datasucker/Dirty Laundry/Account Siphon/Access Cards) and still hit them with Emergency Shutdown.  I really don't see how Andy makes ES less effective.

I'm not saying Gabe is bad at all.  He's very, very strong.  I just find Andromeda to be significantly stronger.

 

If you want data/numbers to back it up.  Since Opening Moves has been released, OCTGN data has Gabe at 52.03% wins (out of 4309 games) and Andromeda has 58.32% wins (out of 6024 games).  The sample sizes are very large and you get a good idea overall of the relative strengths.

 

If you don't trust that, we also have the Plugged-In Tour.  It's an incredibly small sample size so I question the statistical significance, but even there Andromeda has a lot more wins than Gabe.

 

Both are fantastic IDs.  I just find Andromeda much stronger overall.

 

 


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#15 frybender

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

Andy is definitely stronger then Gabe. While the plugged-in tours are not necessarily the end-all be-all definition of the current game state, it's at least a data point and it certainly shows how amazing Andy is. There are a couple of reasons for this. With the current card pool, most of the time the runners have an advantage in the early and late game while in the midgame the corp is stronger. Andy's ability allows her to tack on to that advantage and explode in the early game. A better statistician then me can give you the probabilities, but seeing 20% of your deck at the start means that, including the mulligans, you will see an Account siphon or a desperado (or another lynchpin of your deck) way more often then not. I will gladly give up the ability to every once in a while get 2 additional credits if I have an almost guaranteed depserado that rewards every run or if I know that I can AS the corp on the first couple of turns. The ability to set up early is huge. It basically means there is no middle game and as nungunz said above me this means that the corp is always playing catch up, not a fun position to be in. And so what if you don't play 4 cards on your first turn. You still have 5 cards to begin the next turn and if you had to discard your second desperado well at least you didn't waste a click drawing it.

 

Another reason why Andy is better is that quite honestly Gabe's ability isn't that great. HQ access is worse for scoring agendas then R&D access is so you don't want to have to keep accessing it just to keep your econ going. And that econ can be ground to a halt with a couple of pieces of ice (I'm looking at you pop-up). I agree with nungunz that I very rarely have a problem with my Andy being poor (and never since I included a 3rd desperado) but Gabe can struggle mightily if I'm locked out of HQ. And I never run KJ (or MO for that matter). Burst economy is fine for Andy since you pretty much guarantee that on your first few turns you can easily get in somewhere for your dirty laundries and probably even bank jobs. And then your desperado/datasuckers (and the occasional AS) should keep you going long enough to finish the game since as you said the whole point of criminal is to be as aggressive as possible. And Andy makes it so much easier to be that much more aggressive.



#16 Dydra

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:40 PM

Thanks for the big replies guys, I honestly threw that post without going into too much detail. It was just my experience with her in the last tournament going 1-3 in 4 games. I play without Dirty Laundry though ( i simply haven't bought the expansion yet), so I guess that's why it makes me feel that I need to play 4 cards and I can't face-check the wall.

One of the points, my 1) especially, was that if I screw up your start ... or you blow out your advantage from the start, you are simply ... done

Where as Gabe's ( or Kate's ) type of abilities they persist through the entire game ... and add up 






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