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'Boiling Blood' effect while 'Lost in Time and Space'


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#1 Schwaig

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:46 AM

Hello everyone!

At first I want to apologize if I dont use the right names of any game elements sometimes. I'm from Germany and my game copy is also a german one, so I have to translate the names etc.

I did not find any topics through search for my question, but maybe I did not use the right keywords so please excuse, if it has been a topic before.

Saturday evening we played a very nice round with Innsmouth expansion and the 'Curse of the Dark Pharaoh'. We started with Roland Banks, the Fed, Agnes Baker and Finn Edwards, all characters we did not play before. So it happened, that Agnes was in another world and low on stamina. Through an encounter and a failed luck check - which was quite sad, because the mythos environment effect at this time did not allow the investigators to spend clues for additional dice rolls - she managed to get a curse. In the next round at the beginning of the upkeep phase her cursed blood began to boil and therefore she was reduced to 0 stamina and 'lost in time and space'. 

The next round, her stamina was reduced to 0 again and she was - again - 'lost in time and space' and delayed. Because she did not manage to get rid of the curse through upkeep rolls, she was 'out of bussines' for several rounds.

The question is: did we play it correct the way we did? And if no one buys a blessing at the 'South Church', may the investigator be in an eternal loop of boiling death until he manages to roll a 1 in upkeep? 

We allowed the player to choose to get devoured after some time so he could join the actual game again. Is there a possibility to be devoured voluntarily, if you wish, as we played it this time?

The game did not end very well with two gate burst that destroyed seals and three 'deep ones rising'-tokens in one round, which caused Ghatanotoah to awake. We were not really prepared for this to happen but we even managed to remove 12 doom tokens before the last of us was devoured.

But it was a very exciting game and lots of fun.



#2 Wolfgar

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:14 AM

An Investigator lost in Time & Space loses a turn in addition to being delayed. That means that he does not get an Upkeep Phase, Movement Phase, or Encounter Phases. At the start of Upkeep Phase the next turn, they are moved to anywhere in Arkham.

So, the first blood boiling and roll to discard the curse would not have occurred. The investigator would then be moved to Arkham (most likely St. Mary's Hospital) at the start of Upkeep, then lose Stamina and roll to discard the curse. If they were not at St. Mary's Hospital, they would be moved there. They would not be delayed again since they were already delayed, but would lose their items and clues again. On the Movement Phase they would stand up. After that they may be stuck more in an infinite loop at St. Mary's, but are in a better position to have another Investigator help them.

 

The Dunwich Horror includes rules for retiring investigators, which works mostly the same as if an investigator is devoured. To retire an investigator must have two or more Madness or Injury cards, which are gained when an investigator is knocked unconscious or driven insane. Being stuck in an infinite loop of unconciousness should basically count in my opinion.



#3 Tibs

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

When you are Lost in Time and Space, you lose your next turn. Your Upkeep is included in your next turn, so you wouldn't suffer the Blood Will Boil effects.

On the turn after that, at the start of Upkeep, the investigator moves from LiTaS to somewhere in Arkham, so Agnes wouldn't be subject to another Blood Will Boil effect.



#4 Schwaig

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

Tibs said:

When you are Lost in Time and Space, you lose your next turn. Your Upkeep is included in your next turn, so you wouldn't suffer the Blood Will Boil effects.

On the turn after that, at the start of Upkeep, the investigator moves from LiTaS to somewhere in Arkham, so Agnes wouldn't be subject to another Blood Will Boil effect.

Okay, that's interesting.

In the german rulebook it says, when you are Lost in Time and Space your are delayed, it does not state that you lose your next turn. So if you were delayed, you would have an upkeep and your blood would boil.

And even if you would lose the complete turn, as you said, the rulebook of the Curse of the Dark Pharaoh expansion also states, that the 'Boiling blood'-effect also takes effect at the start of your upkeep phase, so in my opinion it is not quite clear which effect takes place first.

But it makes much more sense to play it the way you said, of course.

And as Wolfgar said, you still would get unconscious every round at Saint Mary's… Nice :)

Thanks to you.



#5 Julia

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:15 PM

Schwaig,

this is the official ruling for LiTaS copy-pasted from the AH rulebook, pag 17:

Any investigator who is lost in time and space is immediately moved to the Lost in Time and Space area of the board. The investigator is now delayed, and the player should place the investigator marker on its side. The investigator loses his next turn, remaining in the Lost in Time and Space area. The player may only stand his investigator marker back up during the Movement Phase. On the following turn, at the start of the Upkeep Phase, the player may move his investigator to any location or street area of his choice in Arkham.

Sorry to hear that something was lost in translation! Anyway, the fact that you're losing your next turn implies no Upkeep, as per FAQ section in the Dunwich Horror rulebook, pag 11:

Q: If a card tells you to “lose your next turn,” does this mean skip all phases, including Upkeep?
A: Yes. Note that this is different from being told to “stay here next turn,” which means you are delayed.

This FAQ entry was in some ways completed by a more extensive answer in the final FAQ (pag. 13):

Q: If a card tells you to “lose your next turn,” does this mean skip all phases, including Upkeep?
A: Yes, all phases except the Mythos Phase. Note that this is different from being told to “stay here next turn,” which means you are delayed. Any effect that applies to being delayed, applies when an investigator is instructed to “stay here next turn.” (Even if an investigator is delayed, he must still combat or evade each monster in his location or area during the Movement Phase. Note that the investigator cannot move, use movement points, or cast spells during this Movement Phase to do so.)


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#6 Wolfgar

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:19 PM

As I see it, there are three intepretations, and they all go the same way.

 

1.) Returning to Arkham must be performed at the start of Upkeep, and Blood Boiling must be performed at the start of Upkeep as part of resolving Curses. Since you would resolve the Curse after returning, you go to Arkham first.

2.) Returning to Arkham and Blood Boiling are both Upkeep actions, and as such may be done in any order the player wishes so long as Blood Boiling precedes resolving the Curse. The obvious choice here is Return to Arkham then Blood Boil.

3.) Returning to Arkham and Blood Boiling both strictly must be resolved at the very beginning of Upkeep, in which case it becomes a timing issue, and all timing issues favor the player, thus causing them to return to Arkham first.



#7 Julia

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

I think you "lose your turn" applies only to when you spend the whole round LiTaS.

In the turn you're returning to Arkham, you do have an Upkeep, so you are not immune any longer to the DP's Blood will Boil.

Another good reason to play with Injuries, I'd say


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#8 Schwaig

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

Julia said:

Schwaig,

this is the official ruling for LiTaS copy-pasted from the AH rulebook, pag 17:

Any investigator who is lost in time and space is immediately moved to the Lost in Time and Space area of the board. The investigator is now delayed, and the player should place the investigator marker on its side. The investigator loses his next turn, remaining in the Lost in Time and Space area. The player may only stand his investigator marker back up during the Movement Phase. On the following turn, at the start of the Upkeep Phase, the player may move his investigator to any location or street area of his choice in Arkham.

Sorry to hear that something was lost in translation! Anyway, the fact that you're losing your next turn implies no Upkeep, as per FAQ section in the Dunwich Horror rulebook, pag 11:

That's good to know, thanks. That's definitly missing in the german translation.



#9 Wolfgar

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

Julia said:

 

I think you "lose your turn" applies only to when you spend the whole round LiTaS.

In the turn you're returning to Arkham, you do have an Upkeep, so you are not immune any longer to the DP's Blood will Boil.

Another good reason to play with Injuries, I'd say

 

 

 

Oh quite. On the turn you return to Arkham you definitely will suffer further damage. You will just simply suffer it in Arkham instead of somewhere in the great beyond.

 

Schwaig, if you aren't aware, the Dunwich Horror expansion includes Madness and Injury cards. If you reach 0 Stamina with those rules, you can take an Injury card instead of losing all of your possessions, and are boosted back to maximum Stamina. Madness works the same but for Sanity. Injuries and Madness are pretty nasty, and don't go away for the most part, but it can prevent things like being stuck in an infinite loop at the Hospital or Sanitarium.



#10 Manishtusu

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

About the boiling blood effect - do you still apply it once the AO has awakened? It could be devastating against Yig. I know it was for me, the last game I played against him, the Deep Ones Rising track rose too quickly, so I couldn't bless anyone in time. Of course I used the option that was harder for my investigators. After all, Yig is a pushover… but he got me this time! :-)



#11 Julia

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

Manishtusu said:

About the boiling blood effect - do you still apply it once the AO has awakened? It could be devastating against Yig. I know it was for me, the last game I played against him, the Deep Ones Rising track rose too quickly, so I couldn't bless anyone in time. Of course I used the option that was harder for my investigators. After all, Yig is a pushover… but he got me this time! :-)

That's a tricky question. Rules say that during final battle, you stop collecting money, and discard active Environments and Rumors, and they don't mention Heralds at all. So it seems like they're still in play. Nonetheless, the description of Heralds present them as entities "preparing the way" for the Ancient Ones, and once the AO is awaken, they should already have prepared the way. I remember Tibs said something at this regard, but I really cannot remember it now.

As for me, I discard the Heralds as soon as the AO wakes up. But I won't bet my life on this to be the correct way of playing


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#12 Tibs

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:46 PM

Heralds (and Guardians and Institutions) are supposed to be discarded when the AO awakens. The first AO to be published was the King in Yellow, and the rules under the "Herald variant" entry specify that the herald is supposed to be discarded. My guess is that the designers forgot to include this rule in other expansions.



#13 Julia

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

Tibs said:

Heralds (and Guardians and Institutions) are supposed to be discarded when the AO awakens. The first AO to be published was the King in Yellow, and the rules under the "Herald variant" entry specify that the herald is supposed to be discarded. My guess is that the designers forgot to include this rule in other expansions.

Thanks, Chris


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#14 Manishtusu

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:11 PM

Well then. Time for a rematch!



#15 The Professor

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

I just read the ArkhamWiki entry…poor Rex!


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#16 Manishtusu

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:15 AM

Now imagine Dark Pharaoh and Ghatanothoa vs. Rex. ;-)



#17 The Professor

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:29 PM

To quote Lana, From Archer…"Noooope!"


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#18 Wolfgar

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:30 PM

Rex is just hosed.



#19 Julia

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:30 PM

Wolfgar said:

Rex is just hosed.

And by hosed you intend its first meaning, broken, or the second, screwed? :laughter: sorry, I'm trying to figure out what you meant!


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#20 The Professor

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:46 PM

Definitely the second, my friend!


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