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Planetary Landing and recovery


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#1 Hrathen

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 05:52 PM

Two questions really.  First, can space maranies recover their Drop Pods or are they one use things.  I know there are landers large enough to drop landraiders I guess they may be large enough to recover Drop Pods.  If Drop Pods are disposible, then does that mean that space marines always need some other transport, like a Thunderhawk, to get them back into space.  Since Space Marines are so few in numbers I can imagine recovering troops and material so that they can be quickly re-deployed would be paramount.

Second Question:  How does the Empire land and recover Titans.  Those things are huge.  Does the Imperial Guard / Imperial Navy just have supper huge dropships.  Does the Adeptus Mechanicus have their own dropships for Titans.  Titans like space marines are such a valuable military resource, I can not imagine that a commander could afford to leave them on a planet any longer than nessisary before redeploying them to the next battlefield.


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#2 Adeptus-B

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:54 AM

Hrathen said:

Two questions really.  First, can space maranies recover their Drop Pods or are they one use things.  I know there are landers large enough to drop landraiders I guess they may be large enough to recover Drop Pods.  If Drop Pods are disposible, then does that mean that space marines always need some other transport, like a Thunderhawk, to get them back into space.  Since Space Marines are so few in numbers I can imagine recovering troops and material so that they can be quickly re-deployed would be paramount.

I believe they try to recover drop pods when possible, but as transports they are strictly one-way.

Hrathen said:

Second Question:  How does the Empire land and recover Titans.  Those things are huge.  Does the Imperial Guard / Imperial Navy just have supper huge dropships.  Does the Adeptus Mechanicus have their own dropships for Titans.  Titans like space marines are such a valuable military resource, I can not imagine that a commander could afford to leave them on a planet any longer than nessisary before redeploying them to the next battlefield.

The Mechanicus has their own specialty landers for titans; they don't trust anyone else with their 'god-machines'…



#3 herichimo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:45 PM

Hrathen said:

Two questions really.  First, can space maranies recover their Drop Pods or are they one use things.  I know there are landers large enough to drop landraiders I guess they may be large enough to recover Drop Pods.  If Drop Pods are disposible, then does that mean that space marines always need some other transport, like a Thunderhawk, to get them back into space.  Since Space Marines are so few in numbers I can imagine recovering troops and material so that they can be quickly re-deployed would be paramount.

Second Question:  How does the Empire land and recover Titans.  Those things are huge.  Does the Imperial Guard / Imperial Navy just have supper huge dropships.  Does the Adeptus Mechanicus have their own dropships for Titans.  Titans like space marines are such a valuable military resource, I can not imagine that a commander could afford to leave them on a planet any longer than nessisary before redeploying them to the next battlefield.

Drop pods are not used as an every-battle conveance. Contrary to every SM battle in the tabletop game, drop pods are almost only ever used in the opening engagements of large planetary assaults. Before their use the space marine commanders weigh all the available entry vectors, drop pods are used if a space marine force needs to get an entire company on the ground fast and/or the marine's ship can't stay in orbit for long. Marines will not, I repeat, will not drop in with drop pods, fight 1 battle, then jet back up to the strike cruiser just so they can drop pod into another battle. Drop pods are a start of war thing. They are not perfectly safe, shooting 1 at a planet all by its lonesome is a sure way to get it blown out of the sky, especially if its target is anywhere near enemy concentrations. They are more or less one-use items. Since space marines generally plan on sticking around awhile on a planet they drop pod onto their techmarines will go around and salvage any pods they can, but all the pods shot are write offs the moment they leave the chute, if they get salvaged, all the better.

Titan landers are so massive they cause enough atmospheric disturbances on a planet to cause thunderstorms to form for several days around the landing sites (on planets which can have thunderstorms). They carry the titans, mechanics, support staff, replacement parts, ammo, fuel, and skittari the legion needs to fight with. These things and their titans are sent to really really big fights. Commiting a titan strike force, or even worse a whole legion is a massive undertaking. They are not lightning strike-teams, going in and out in 5 minutes flat. It takes months or years of planning before a titan force is landed on a planet (not withstanding transport times). Once there, the titans are there practically until whatever fight is there is over. If the fight turns ****-up, getting titans off planet quickly under emergency conditions is very risky, dangerous, and expensive. With a majority of their support stuff (billions in Imperial thrones worth, but infinately easier to replace than a titan) and probably a good portion of its skittari (fighting a holding action) left behind.



#4 Hrathen

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:35 AM

Do space marines have a way to get on and off a planet other than drop pods and thunderhawks.  There seems like there needs to be something a little less awsome.

Drop pods have their own obvious problems, and I am hesitant to give my kill teams access to a thunderhawk for every mission.  How do you all handle Space Marines huge need for travel.  I mean a rhino is nice, but what if you are on a plannet spanning mission or heaven forbid a planet hopping mission.


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#5 KommissarK

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

Landspeeders certainly are an option, particularly the Storm viariant, as its a light transport (intended for scouts, but a few power armoured individuals should fit - perfect for the average sized tabletop group).

The should be able to perform a high altitude insertion/extraction, but certainly would need a Thunderhawk or similar vehicle to pick them up.

As far as planet hopping goes… thats a bit trickier. If you're talking in system, its still going to take a while. I'm not even sure if a Thunderhawk would be appropriate for such distance.

Another Space Marine amry option would be the Stormtalon - the shortbus variant of the Thunderhawk.

Also, do remember, Space Marines/The Inquisition/The Deathwatch could requisition the use of other Imperial vehicles. Aquila Landers, local airspeeders, etc.



#6 glavyin34

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:05 AM

Hrathen said:

Do space marines have a way to get on and off a planet other than drop pods and thunderhawks.  There seems like there needs to be something a little less awsome.

Drop pods have their own obvious problems, and I am hesitant to give my kill teams access to a thunderhawk for every mission.  How do you all handle Space Marines huge need for travel.  I mean a rhino is nice, but what if you are on a plannet spanning mission or heaven forbid a planet hopping mission.

Our Deathwatch team is run by a Low-ranking Ordo Xenos Inquisitor who has access to a Gun Cutter (not sure where the rules for that are), which the team uses for insertions. The GM was very clear that there is ONE Gun Cutter available, and it is not even ours. If the Gun Cutter were destroyed dropping us off, we would have to steal a cargo lander or something to get off world. But we might not even want to bother since we would be in so much trouble for losing the Gun Cutter and would have hefty penalties trying to convince the Ordo to help us again. So we mainly get dropped off very far from the target in order to protect the Gun Cutter from any anti-air defenses, then do a ground assault with bikes and a razorback.

You could substitute a Storm Raven from Rites of Battle in this capacity. Even if your team doesn't have anyone with Distinguished Renown, you could give them access to a Storm Raven and just be clear that if it gets blowed up, there will be no more Storm Ravens available for the rest of the campaign, and they'll have to get creative to get on- and off-world.



#7 glavyin34

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:08 AM

One last thing: If you're planning on doing any planet-hopping I agree with KommissarK that there's not much in the Space Marine Armory to support such a function. Planet-hopping is really best done with the Rogue Trader set of ships and rules, if you feel like buying a book or three.



#8 Baradiel

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

There is always teleportation also.  The Deathwatch has access to more esoteric means of transportation than other chapters, especially with their connections to the Inquisition.



#9 ranoncles

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

herichimo said:

It takes months or years of planning before a titan force is landed on a planet (not withstanding transport times). 

 

Actually, while this may be the norm because titans are so rare and precious, they can deploy quickly when needed.

In Titanicus, a titan legion is diverted to assist a forge world under attack and after a poignant "Legio Invictus will walk on Orestes", the titans are landed with suitable pomp and circumstance. 



#10 eldath

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:34 AM

ranoncles said:

herichimo said:

 

It takes months or years of planning before a titan force is landed on a planet (not withstanding transport times). 

 

 

 

Actually, while this may be the norm because titans are so rare and precious, they can deploy quickly when needed.

In Titanicus, a titan legion is diverted to assist a forge world under attack and after a poignant "Legio Invictus will walk on Orestes", the titans are landed with suitable pomp and circumstance. 

In this particular case Legio Invictus were in the neighbourhood already, Although I don't disagree in principle, the time might be cut down to mere weeks or months.

E



#11 Hampulina93

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:52 AM

Don't forget walking, they are Space Marines and can long distance march shouldn't be an issue. The Deathwatch deals with spec-ops missions and traveling by foot is a good way to maintain a low profile. You could simply say: "You are dropped off by a Thunderhawk/Storm Raven ten kilometers from the objective and walk the rest of the way." No need to worry about AA-guns.



#12 venkelos

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:01 AM

Hrathen said:

Do space marines have a way to get on and off a planet other than drop pods and thunderhawks.  There seems like there needs to be something a little less awsome.

Yeah, I'd ay it depends  on how they got to the planet. most likely, I imagine a DW ship bringing them in, and then sending them down in a Thunderhawk or teleporting them from the ship. Depending on the mission, and its location, the orbitting vessel might have to leave, but Space Marines of the DW do have to get around, and from planet A to B, so some ships must be available. In the Ultramarines movie, I think they arrived at the planet in question in a strike cruiser, and then Thunderhawked down (yeah, for Space Marines, it's a verb!) The Hawk could stay on the surface, but a ways off, or return to the ship, and wait for signal. On a more active world, a small, stealth-enabled ship might be more appropriate. Maybe more DW games start with you on the planet, already.



#13 Radwraith

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:22 AM

Hrathen said:

Do space marines have a way to get on and off a planet other than drop pods and thunderhawks.  There seems like there needs to be something a little less awsome.

Drop pods have their own obvious problems, and I am hesitant to give my kill teams access to a thunderhawk for every mission.  How do you all handle Space Marines huge need for travel.  I mean a rhino is nice, but what if you are on a plannet spanning mission or heaven forbid a planet hopping mission.

Insertion/extraction options are typically dependent on what's available at the time and the mission Parameters. A Kill team, much like a modern special ops team is not likely to be tied to any particular platform. In all cases, While their insertion or extraction may call for certain assets that does not suggest that the Kill team has any control over them (Any more than a SEAL team has any control over a Submarine that delivers them to their AO). Control over a given asset is governed by the reknown rules. Otherwise, Whatever is used to deliver and ferry the team about will do just that in its own way.

For example: The Kill team is assigned a Smash and grap mission for Planet X in the fugawe system. Transport to the system will be provided by the Hunter class destroyer St. Lancelot which will loiter in orbit for the duration over the mission planet's pole (To mask it's signature). Since the mission calls for rapid insertion near the objective the team decides to requisition a drop pod  for insertion. While this probably would have been the method of insertion anyway requisitioning the Pod allows tthe players to determine it's landing position/launch time and any other details of it's use. While retrieval will be by thunderhawk transport but the team does not have nearly enough requisition to to control the mighty aircraft. Thus; The mission parameters specify a "Dustoff" point and time where the team must Rendevous for retrieval. The Thunderhawk will not otherwise be interacting with the team or providing any air support.



#14 Night10194

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

Also, since you're working for the Inquisition (sorta) I'd imagine you probably have access to one of the more efficient drop vehicles: Valkyries. We used a Valkyrie in my Kill-Team and did shenanigans ranging from mid-air boarding of Tau vehicles to calling it in for close air support once. But yes, Drop Pods are pretty much a way to get down fast when you're not too worried about getting back up any time soon. They're hard to track, hard to shoot down, and they get down really fast. More for long-term beachheads than the kind of special operations work the Deathwatch does.



#15 Morangias

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 04:09 PM

Hrathen said:

 

Do space marines have a way to get on and off a planet other than drop pods and thunderhawks.  There seems like there needs to be something a little less awsome.

Drop pods have their own obvious problems, and I am hesitant to give my kill teams access to a thunderhawk for every mission.  How do you all handle Space Marines huge need for travel.  I mean a rhino is nice, but what if you are on a plannet spanning mission or heaven forbid a planet hopping mission.

 

 

Our Deathwatch team is run by a Low-ranking Ordo Xenos Inquisitor who has access to a Gun Cutter (not sure where the rules for that are), which the team uses for insertions. The GM was very clear that there is ONE Gun Cutter available, and it is not even ours. If the Gun Cutter were destroyed dropping us off, we would have to steal a cargo lander or something to get off world. But we might not even want to bother since we would be in so much trouble for losing the Gun Cutter and would have hefty penalties trying to convince the Ordo to help us again. So we mainly get dropped off very far from the target in order to protect the Gun Cutter from any anti-air defenses, then do a ground assault with bikes and a razorback.

You could substitute a Storm Raven from Rites of Battle in this capacity. Even if your team doesn't have anyone with Distinguished Renown, you could give them access to a Storm Raven and just be clear that if it gets blowed up, there will be no more Storm Ravens available for the rest of the campaign, and they'll have to get creative to get on- and off-world.

Uh, are we talking about the same Space Marines here? You know the guys - Angels of Death, the most elite fighting force in the galaxy, the closest thing 40k has to superheroes?

 

My mind cannot even fully grasp the levels of absolute fail involved in forcing Emperor's proud sons to figure out how to get to the combat zone. If a Kill-Team needs to do X in city Y on planet Z, they are transported by an available voidship to planet Z and then dropped into city Y by whatever means are deemed most tactically sound. Then, after they've done their job, they get picked up by whatever means are most convenient at the moment and transported via voidship back to the Watch Station.

 

Most importantly, this incredible convenience costs them zero requisition, because requisition is for the things they will require during the mission, not the basic necessities of getting into the area of operation and not being left planetside afterwards.


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#16 Korvis

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:04 PM

There are all manner of delivery means available.  A variety of ships can be "contracted" by the Inquisition to perform various tasks including resupply, landing or extracting a team or whatever.  The Inquisition has a list, I'm sure, of Ship Captains that have performed covert operations without asking any questions and have been retained repeatedly for making runs under covert circumstances and that they have been generously rewarded for doing so.

 

Besides the apparatus of the imperial Navy, the assets of the Astartes also includes personal transporters and associated beacons.  The limitations of such devices as well as availability may or may not be beneficial to the mission and so the generalities of Drop Pods and Thunderhawks would just be the most common methods, certainly not the only ones though.






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